Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Chardee MacDennis

well i wonder who is going to win lfc player of the year

votes so far

Fernando Torres - 14526
Steven Gerrard - 1587
Javier Mascherano - 1384
Jamie Carragher - 229
Dirk Kuyt - 197

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/interact/results/ballot_results.php3?ballot_id=1324&answer_id=17634

it's great to see jaime and stevie with so little votes, pretty much every season for the last 3 years it has gone to one of them by a long way iirc, now they have some real challengers with masch and nando in there and its only gonna get tougher for them to win it again.

event

Cyrus wrote: »

the only villa player that would make the liverpool first XI is Young

rafa obviously doesnt think so

Tusky

Cyrus wrote: »

nah casillas is the best young keeper, reina is up there tho, and james is like a fine wine, that was ****e when he was in our cellar

Holy crap. Didnt realize he was only 26.

LuckyLloyd

Barry is a much more desirable signing from Villa than Young. As I have said before in this thread, Barry has been a proven performer at this level for many seasons that will instantly add to our squad. Young has had one good season. When you sign young English players with a season or two of decent football under their belt you have to pay the hype tax and end up getting fleeced. I wouldn't want ANY English players U25 added to our squad this summer to be honest (apart from nevergointohappen players like Richards or Rooney obv).

Cyrus

event wrote: »

rafa obviously doesnt think so

says who ?

didnt see him say anywhere that barry was going to walk into the first team

IrishMike

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barry is a much more desirable signing from Villa than Young. As I have said before in this thread, Barry has been a proven performer at this level for many seasons that will instantly add to our squad. Young has had one good season. When you sign young English players with a season or two of decent football under their belt you have to pay the hype tax and end up getting fleeced. I wouldn't want ANY English players U25 added to our squad this summer to be honest (apart from nevergointohappen players like Richards or Rooney obv).

That post doesnt actually make sense.
Young has not had one good season, he has had a mindblowing season.
He had 1 good season in the same way that torres did.
He will be an awesome player
Ashley young is most definitely at the same level as richards and far less
injury prone.
Best winger in the premiership this season and his assists tally backs that up.

Tusky

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Barry is a much more desirable signing from Villa than Young. As I have said before in this thread, Barry has been a proven performer at this level for many seasons that will instantly add to our squad. Young has had one good season. When you sign young English players with a season or two of decent football under their belt you have to pay the hype tax and end up getting fleeced. I wouldn't want ANY English players U25 added to our squad this summer to be honest (apart from nevergointohappen players like Richards or Rooney obv).

Barry may improve our squad but will he improve our first team ?

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

Kuyt

---

Alonso--Mascherano

Aurelio---Carra--Agger---Arbeloa

---

Reina

Subs:
Itandje
Crouch
Benayoun
Lucas
Pennant
Skrtel
Finnan

Who is he going to oust ?

a) He will replace Alonso (if alonso is sold) which is a step back.

b) He will take Lucas place on the bench - waste of money

c) He is being bought for the left back position - This is best case scenario BUT its a lot of money to spend on a LB

IrishMike wrote: »

Best winger in the premiership this season and his assists tally backs that up.

What about the Portuguese chap ? Cant remember his name.

IrishMike

Tusky wrote: »

What about the Portuguese chap ? Cant remember his name.

He is not a winger he is a striker for crying out loud
Point taken though.
14 assists this season, more than any other player except fabregas.
Phenomenal
Im starting an ashley young to liverpool petition!

Bounty Hunter

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Young has had one good season. When you sign young English players with a season or two of decent football under their belt you have to pay the hype tax and end up getting fleeced

IrishMike wrote: »

That post doesnt actually make sense.
Young has not had one good season, he has had a mindblowing season.
He had 1 good season in the same way that torres did.
He will be an awesome player
Ashley young is most definitely at the same level as richards and far less
injury prone.
Best winger in the premiership this season and his assists tally backs that up.

Believe the Hype!

only outfield player in the team of the year outside of the top 4. Only bettered on the wings by that Portugeezer

LuckyLloyd

Not going to quote the posts above, this is a general reply:

1) Think why Chelsea are better than us. Is it because their first eleven is miles ahead of us when the CL semi - finals have shown that not to be the case? Or is it because they have much, much better squad depth and can cope with injury problems far more capably than we can over a long season. Barry is the kind of signing that makes a ton of sense if you want to win a league while competing in Europe. Alonso and Masherano can't possibly play every single league game (nor can Aurelio for that matter) and having someone like Barry around means you can bring him in and lose very little because you are bringing in a player who has been doing the business in the premiership for years - and has a good winning mentality on the pitch (club captain at Villa now for a few seasons) Barry can help us out if required in 4 of the eleven slots in the current formation;

2) I don't care how astonishing one season is. It's one ****ing season;

Tusky

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Not going to quote the posts above, this is a general reply:

1) Think why Chelsea are better than us. Is it because their first eleven is miles ahead of us when the CL semi - finals have shown that not to be the case? Or is it because they have much, much better squad depth and can cope with injury problems far more capably than we can over a long season. Barry is the kind of signing that makes a ton of sense if you want to win a league while competing in Europe. Alonso and Masherano can't possibly play every single league game (nor can Aurelio for that matter) and having someone like Barry around means you can bring him in and lose very little because you are bringing in a player who has been doing the business in the premiership for years - and has a good winning mentality on the pitch (club captain at Villa now for a few seasons) Barry can help us out if required in 4 of the eleven slots in the current formation;

2) I don't care how astonishing one season is. It's one ****ing season;

But thats the thing. Our first 11 isnt good enough. We should be looking to improve the first 11 and then and only then, look to improve the rest of the squad.

In the league against the big 3 we got 4 points from 6 games. Not good enough.

el rabitos

i wouldnt like to see alonso sold for 15 million and then have to spend the majority of that cash on barry because well, he's english.

we need steps forwards, not sideways, signing barry wouldnt be a significant step forward imo, not for the kind of cash villa will want.

having said that, if we can get barry for under 5 million + riise and pennant i think it would be a fine bit of business, he'd improve the squad and make us look (even) more comfortable across the midfield.

i just dont like the idea of sacrificing alot of cash for an over valued english player when there are several other positions in dire need of quality players.

Mr Alan

After Torres, definately my player of the year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QbjqWeIiE8

mike65

Little Sammys return comfirmed by the Post.

Mike.

Mr Alan

was in the Echo this morning as well as far as i know.

not sure wat to make of it tbh. wat ya reckon mike?

if ya remember that Torres/Kennyinterview, little sammy is fluent in spanish, so that'll be a help

mike65

He's a good coach and had Liverpool fitter than a flea the last time, ditto Bolton- it only went wrong there cos he wanted them to play football which is just not on at the Reebok! I'm assuming he will fill Alex Millers shoes. And yes I bet the fact he speaks Spanish helped.

Mike.

Mr Alan

If i remember correctly, he was very close to a lot of the players as well. still need another coach/assistant manager to come in.

zing

It's reckoned Sammy will fill Pako's shoes with other members of the coaching team being promoted to fill Alex's.

invincibleirish

Cyrus wrote: »

says who ?

didnt see him say anywhere that barry was going to walk into the first team

What hocus pocus:p, Benitez is going to spend £20m on Barry so he can warm the bench is he? if so then thats just bad management. I doubt Liverpool can afford that kindof financial largesse like Man Utd/Chelsea.

Mr Alan

zing wrote: »

It's reckoned Sammy will fill Pako's shoes with other members of the coaching team being promoted to fill Alex's.

Gary Ablett if the rumours are correct.

Mr Alan

invincibleirish wrote: »

Benitez is going to spend £20m on Barry

Doubt it being honest

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

After Torres, definately my player of the year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QbjqWeIiE8

Absolutely. He is such an amazing tackler. Sometimes I am baffled as to how he comes away with the ball without fouling.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

Doubt it being honest

I agree with you, though probably for a different reason (Liverpool wont/cant meet the asking price).

Mr Alan

Well I cant see Arsenal being interested in paying 20 million, so if he wants to leave, which he seems to at the moment-they're gonna have to lower the price, younger players with more room for improvement have moved on for around 17, i'd imagine Barry will go for around between 12-16.

i dont want this to turn into a row please.

zing

The latest comments from MON on his conversations with Rafa sound as if he's very very p1ssed off with Rafa/LFC atm and with the way things are looking now I think they'll find it hard to do business together unless Barry himself tells Villa he wants to move to LFC. It's all getting very messy and is not the way we should be trying to do business (but then doing everything through the press seems to be the new Liverpool way).

MON's comments are all over various football sites & tomorrows papers so I won't bother linking to them.

invincibleirish

Mr Alan wrote: »

Well I cant see Arsenal being interested in paying 20 million, so if he wants to leave, which he seems to at the moment-they're gonna have to lower the price, younger players with more room for improvement have moved on for around 17, i'd imagine Barry will go for around between 12-16.

i dont want this to turn into a row please.

Its ok i dont bite;), I think the figure will be close to £20m for a number of reasons.

1) Football transfer inflation means we're going to see more money spent this year rather then last year.

2)MON is a patient man. Villa dont need the money and are under no pressure to sell. Remember Villa will have to replace one of their best players & captain, thus adequate financial compensation will be required. Remember This is the man who made Liverpool pay £13m for Heskey.

Rafa has made an absolute balls of this situation. that combined with MONs stubbornness means no one really knows whats going to happen next, what we have learned is that Liverpool seemingly expected Villa to lie down and roll over when they decided it was time to try and poach their captain,i dont think it will be that easy for Liverpool.

Malice

invincibleirish wrote: »

Remember This is the man who made Liverpool pay £13m for Heskey.

I think Houllier can take a lot of credit for that piece of wisdom. The fee wasn't £13 million, it was more like £11 million. Still vastly overpriced anyway :mad:.

We signed him pretty much on the assumption that he would score the goals to help us clinch the last Champions League place (I think he came in February or March of 2000). He then unsurprisingly went on a barren run and Leeds beat us to it. Yes, that still annoys me, even 8 years later!

Regarding Gareth Barry, just because O'Neill wants to keep him doesn't mean a thing. Are Villa going to be playing Champions League football next season, the season after or the season after that? No! Barry is coming into his peak and I'm sure he would like to be playing in the Champions League so it's his decision to make. O'Neill can whine to the press all he wants but if Barry wants to go, he'll go.

Regarding the re-appointment of Little Sam, I'm delighted for him. While he was here in the background he seemed to do a good job so let's hope he can pick up where he left off.

~Rebel~

invincibleirish wrote:

2)MON is a patient man. Villa dont need the money and are under no pressure to sell. Remember Villa will have to replace one of their best players & captain, thus adequate financial compensation will be required. Remember This is the man who made Liverpool pay £13m for Heskey.

Rafa has made an absolute balls of this situation. that combined with MONs stubbornness means no one really knows whats going to happen next, what we have learned is that Liverpool seemingly expected Villa to lie down and roll over when they decided it was time to try and poach their captain,i dont think it will be that easy for Liverpool.

I dunno, i dont think its that simple..

On the first point in bold, the pressure won't be coming from other teams, it'll be coming from Barry himself. Its his admission that he wanted champions league football and his refusal to sign himself up to a new deal that have largely sparked interest i think. If Barry wants to leave, theres not much Villa can really do to stop him, just a question of to who and how much.

On the second one, I think this ties in with the first one. I dont think Rafa expected MON to say "oh liverpool, no problem, here you go - Barry, Pack your bags!" I think this is Liverpool/Rafa showing Barry they really want him, getting him onside, making him more of a mind to join us then, say, Arsenal. Thats a very powerful situation to have if it turns out to be the case. Remember Pool having to turn down an extra 4 or 5 million from Lyon for Baros because the player was adamant he wanted to join Villa. I think this whole thing will hinge on Barry himself and what he wants.

Thanx 4 The Fish

can Barry not buy out his contract if he so chose, I was under the impression that he could give notice to villa if he wanted to and then he could leave if he paid the amount remaining on his contract. Liverpool could then give him that back when/if he actually did want to come along.

PiE

invincibleirish wrote: »

I think the figure will be close to £20m

Haha.

Wherever he ends up (and to be honest, I'm not all that bothered) it'll probably end up being a "mish-mash" of players + clauses + cash whether O'Neill likes it or not.

Tusky

What is Barry like as a left back by the way ?

stick-dan

Why do all the media seem intent on unsettling gerrard? Over from inter yeah right, wont matter wouldn't sell him neway!

also anyone reckon we shud have dean ashton as a new striker, me and my mate think he would be a good addition to the "squad" if not the first team...

mike65

Its the end of season, anyway Gerrard has twice in recent weeks declared he isn't leaving unless he is sold.

Mike.

Tusky

stick-dan wrote: »

Why do all the media seem intent on unsettling gerrard? Over from inter yeah right, wont matter wouldn't sell him neway!

also anyone reckon we shud have dean ashton as a new striker, me and my mate think he would be a good addition to the "squad" if not the first team...

I think we should sort out the first team before we buy additions to the squad.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

<new>

---

Masch---Alonso

<new>----Carra---Agger----<new>

---

Reina

If we dont have the cash to get three top quality players for those positions I think we should get one now and two next season. Less quantity more quality!

stick-dan

Tusky wrote: »

I think we should sort out the first team before we buy additions to the squad.

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

<new>

---

Masch---Alonso

<new>----Carra---Agger----<new>

---

Reina

If we dont have the cash to get three top quality players for those positions I think we should get one now and two next season. Less quantity more quality!

any ideas on who to fill those positions. Personally i'd love to see ashton in the first team though. Surely we need a new striker what with the immenent departure of crouch?

stick-dan

mike65 wrote: »

Its the end of season, anyway Gerrard has twice in recent weeks declared he isn't leaving unless he is sold.

Mike.

Yeah thats what i mean speculation is pointless the club would never sell and doesn't his contract have a cluase after the chelsea situation last time that states he does indeed have to be sold by the club and he cant hand in a transfer request...He'd never leave his fernando :P

LuckyLloyd

Tusky wrote: »

What is Barry like as a left back by the way ?

Much better than the premiership average.

dardoz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Much better than the premiership average.

that's not saying much

Dont be at yourself

What about...

---

Torres
-Barry-Gerrard-Kuyt
----Mach-Alonso

Barry's chipped in with the goals and assists for Villa, he's a good crosser of the ball too. Would it work?

Tusky

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

What about...

---

Torres
-Barry-Gerrard-Kuyt
----Mach-Alonso

Barry's chipped in with the goals and assists for Villa, he's a good crosser of the ball too. Would it work?

Barry & Kuyt as wingers ? Hmm. Why would we pay 10-15m for a left winger when we desperately need a right winger, left back and right back ? We only paid 10.5 for Babel last summer. Seems idiotic to me. The only way Rafa will come out of this looking sane is if Barry is played at left back...

Dont be at yourself

Kuyt has done well, probably better than Babel, in the current system. Rafa likes to have options, so in spending 15 million on Barry, he's giving himself options in three positions: left-back, central midfield and left-wing. Not a bad piece of business.

If we can get David Silva or another top quality attacker (please, please) and a right-back, it will be an excellent summer.

Tusky

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Kuyt has done well, probably better than Babel, in the current system. Rafa likes to have options, so in spending 15 million on Barry, he's giving himself options in three positions: left-back, central midfield and left-wing. Not a bad piece of business.

If we can get David Silva or another top quality attacker (please, please) and a right-back, it will be an excellent summer.

People forget that Kuyt was absolutely awful for most of the season. He played well in the last 6 weeks, mainly in the champions league. I like him and hes a good option to have but surely we need to upgrade on him.

Bounty Hunter

Tusky wrote: »

People forget that Kuyt was absolutely awful for most of the season. He played well in the last 6 weeks, mainly in the champions league. I like him and hes a good option to have but surely we need to upgrade on him.

especially if Crouch leaves and only the supposed targets are signed i.e RB, RW, and Left back. That is unless you want Voronin to be the only centre forward option Pool have to rotate/replace/rest Torres with.

Helix

PiE wrote: »

Haha.

Wherever he ends up (and to be honest, I'm not all that bothered) it'll probably end up being a "mish-mash" of players + clauses + cash whether O'Neill likes it or not.

o'neill wont sell if the deal isnt the one he wants. its as simple as that

Tusky wrote: »

What is Barry like as a left back by the way ?

rusty. very very rusty.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think this is Liverpool/Rafa showing Barry they really want him, getting him onside, making him more of a mind to join us then, say, Arsenal.

i dont think dicking our club around publicly is any way to entice the club captain to join you

DeadSkin

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

especially if Crouch leaves and only the supposed targets are signed i.e RB, RW, and Left back. That is unless you want Voronin to be the only centre forward option Pool have to rotate/replace/rest Torres with.

Wouldn't like to see Crouch leave, but if he does so be it.

As a back up for Torres next season, I think Babel fits that role, as for Voronin I hope he follows Kewell out the door.

Tusky

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

especially if Crouch leaves and only the supposed targets are signed i.e RB, RW, and Left back. That is unless you want Voronin to be the only centre forward option Pool have to rotate/replace/rest Torres with.

Well if Crouch is sold I would expect his transfer fee to be put directly back into signing another striker. I honest don't think we need 4 strikers.

Torres
Kuyt
Crouch (or someone else if he is sold)

Then you have Benayoun, Gerrard & Babel who can all play as second strikers. What would be ideal is if we sell Crouch and with that money buy someone to take Kuyts position. A wide striker...two birds with one stone.

Football manager time

Crouch - 12
Carson - 5
Riise - 4
Voronin - 2
Finnan - 2
Kewell - free
Itandje - ?


TOTAL : 25 + 20 transfer kitty (estimated, it may well be lower than this) =45m

---

Torres

Babel

---

Gerrard

---

<new 20m signing>

---

Masch---Alonso

<new 12.5m>--Carra--Agger

---

<new 12.5m>

---

Reina

The rest:
<New keeper - bosman>
Kuyt
Benayoun
Pennant
Nemeth
Lucas
Skrtel
Hyypia
Aurelio
Arbeloa
Insua

That would be an ideal summer for me. I think its realistic too.

invincibleirish

PiE wrote: »

Haha.

Wherever he ends up (and to be honest, I'm not all that bothered) it'll probably end up being a "mish-mash" of players + clauses + cash whether O'Neill likes it or not.

Only time will tell. I have confidence in MON, He'll either persuade him to stay or get the best possible price for him. Either way this isnt the disaster it would have been had he left a few years ago.

However i do think you are wrong. MON is pissed because Rafa did offer a "mish-mash of players + clauses + cash" and MON laughed it off. You guys ought to realise MON is in charge of all things football at AV. He decides who stays or gos.

invincibleirish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

can Barry not buy out his contract if he so chose, I was under the impression that he could give notice to villa if he wanted to and then he could leave if he paid the amount remaining on his contract. Liverpool could then give him that back when/if he actually did want to come along.

Next summer when he is 28.

Malice

DeadSkin wrote: »

As a back up for Torres next season, I think Babel fits that role, as for Voronin I hope he follows Kewell out the door.

I wonder could Rafa surprise us by bringing Nemeth or Brouwer up from the reserves for next season?

spockety

malice_ wrote: »

I wonder could Rafa surprise us by bringing Nemeth or Brouwer up from the reserves for next season?

Well someone is going to have to make the step up sometime, otherwise there is no point buying lots of reserve team players. Rafa's idea is to emulate Wenger in terms of youth transfer policies, he has said that.

With Liverpool acheiving a lot at youth and reserve level over the last couple of seasons, you would have to hope that there is at least 1 player there who will step up to the mark and not be another Neil Mellor, John Welsh, or Jon Otsemobor....