Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Helix

malice_ wrote: »

Why would the interaction between Benitez and Villa have any bearing on what Barry does? Like most footballers his only loyalty is to himself.

As I posted earlier in this thread, if he's in any way ambitious he should be jumping at the chance to play Champions League football which Villa won't be offering him any time soon.

well considering he was dead set on joining pool up to 2 weeks ago and is now considering staying at villa (from the somewhat non concrete source of his sisters boyfriend), id say this fiasco has taken its toll

Cyrus

bit like gerrard and chelsea that time

hopefully barry does the right thing and stays (unless he goes for less than 10m)

IrishMike

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez says he won't make any transfer market decisions until he hears from FIFA president Sepp Blatter's latest push to interfere with Premiership plans.

Blatter has proposed to his organisation's congress a regulation stipulating that every team must field six starting players eligible to represent the country they play in. The matter will be put to a vote on May 29 and 30.

If Blatter's plan is passed then Englishmen such as Pennant and Crouch - as well as Benitez's England-international targets Gareth Barry, of Aston Villa, and Blackburn Rovers' David Bentley - would become even more coveted commodities.

"We know what are the rules and we will try to do things whatever happens with Fifa," said Benitez. "Crouch and Pennant are under contract and they are our players. We are waiting now. We know they have been playing well and a lot of clubs are interested in them so we will wait and see. But they are under contract."

Liverpool would be among the most heavily affected teams in the Premier League if the move is passed by Fifa. Liverpool started 42 matches with either only one or two English-qualified players this season, starting with three 17 times and with four on only one occasion.

"I feel the key is for the fans to see the best players on the pitch," said Benitez. "It is clear - in the past you would talk about a lot of local players but all the teams want to sign players and the best players come from all over the world."

Damn Blatter annoying everyone with his mad plans yet again

IrishMike

Looks like Paul Anderson will be put out on loan again next season

Paul Anderson admits he's unsure of his future at Liverpool.
Anderson helped Swansea win promotion to the Championship this season and said: "I know I'm going back on loan, but haven't got a clue for what team.

"I know there are quite a lot of clubs interested, but I'll just have to wait and see what happens."

Really hope its only until Christmas and that he gets some sort of run in the first team
in one of the cups at least.
A waste of a huge talent if he doesnt get a few appearances this year.
Could be a phenomenal player

IrishMike

Best news ive heard in a long time!

Roma are chasing Liverpool wing-back John Arne Riise.
Reds boss Rafa Benitez has admitted he's listening to offers for the Norway international and Tuttosport says Roma are keen to bring the defender to Italy next season.

Please go, please go, please go

LuckyLloyd

IrishMike wrote: »

Damn Blatter annoying everyone with his mad plans yet again

If that was passed we would be ruined!! :eek:

On the Barry thing, if he chooses to stay at Villa then he lacks ambition - and he's therefore not the type of player we need anyway.

zing

Helix wrote: »

well considering he was dead set on joining pool up to 2 weeks ago and is now considering staying at villa (from the somewhat non concrete source of his sisters boyfriend), id say this fiasco has taken its toll

Quite possibly it has. Don't forget that he's good mates with StevieG who's no doubt telling him about how good life would be at Anfield if he did decide to jump ship. But then he is as captain at a good club which looks to be going in the right direction and there's a lot of reward and security that goes with that. I'm sure Barry is no fool and will make his own mind up rationally.

Hate seeing things like this being done in public - it's not the way for any club to do business - and both clubs are at it here.

EDIT: Does anyone know for sure where this story broke first ? First I saw was a TB article from the Echo but I've since seen mention of the b'ham press breaking it first ?

Pyjamarama

zing wrote: »

Qu. But then he is as captain at a good club which looks to be going in the right direction and there's a lot of reward and security that goes with that.

Surely there'd likely be more rewards at Pool than Villa and financially speaking the big signing bonus will keep him sorted for life. I understand that you're probably speaking in terms of keeping a place in the England team etc but I think the financial element will have to be taken into account here. Will Pool pay him more than Villa???

I see no reason for Barry to stay outside of loyalty. You have to give yourself the opportunity to prove that you're a top class player. He'll be able to acomplish that far easier at Pool than Villa.

stick-dan

james milner, david bentley and gareth barry would be good aquirerings this summer. I'd love to see that happen.

50 million for torres, he needs to go at least double :P

IrishMike

stick-dan wrote: »

james milner, david bentley and gareth barry would be good aquirerings this summer. I'd love to see that happen.

50 million for torres, he needs to go at least double :P

Milner and bentley are not good enough to start for a premiership winning club
Would cost a fortune aswell with them being english

LuckyLloyd

IrishMike wrote: »

Milner and bentley are not good enough to start for a premiership winning club
Would cost a fortune aswell with them being english

QFT

Helix

zing wrote: »

EDIT: Does anyone know for sure where this story broke first ? First I saw was a TB article from the Echo but I've since seen mention of the b'ham press breaking it first ?

the echo broke it

there was no mention of it in the brummie press til the day after the echo ran it

source for that is people living in brum

zing

Helix wrote: »

the echo broke it

there was no mention of it in the brummie press til the day after the echo ran it

source for that is people living in brum

Been looking into it a bit since posting earlier and your sources appear to be wrong - it was carried on the same day in local papers in both areas.

Liverpool Echo:
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2008/05/02/liverpool-make-10m-bid-for-gareth-barry-100252-20853710/

Birmingham Post:
http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2008/05/02/liverpool-bid-10m-for-aston-villa-s-gareth-barry-65233-20854164/

Birmingham Mail:
http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/aston-villa-fc/aston-villa-news/2008/05/02/peter-crouch-set-to-return-to-aston-villa-in-14m-gareth-barry-deal-97319-20854205/

But from those articles my take would be that the Echo broke it first.

btw - which local paper is most closely tied to Villa ? Or is any ?

Helix

express & star i think it is

the web is different, every got hold of it after the echo so it was literally up everywhere within an hour, but they ran it in print the day after the bid did they not?

Helix

Pyjamarama wrote: »

Surely there'd likely be more rewards at Pool than Villa and financially speaking the big signing bonus will keep him sorted for life. I understand that you're probably speaking in terms of keeping a place in the England team etc but I think the financial element will have to be taken into account here. Will Pool pay him more than Villa???

I see no reason for Barry to stay outside of loyalty. You have to give yourself the opportunity to prove that you're a top class player. He'll be able to acomplish that far easier at Pool than Villa.

i think barry has to weigh up whether

a) he wants to play as a left back
b) he wants to be a bit part player
c) he wants to move to play under a manager who has dealt with the whole thing in a public manner, putting unfair pressure on him as the villa captain
d) potentially losing his england place if he doesnt play enough

against

a) staying as villa captain and continuing our improvement
b) being a first team regular who the team is built around
c) keeping his england place if he continues to perform, as he'll always be in the team

i dont think loyalty comes into it as hes perfectly entitled to move if he thinks its for the best in his career, the question here is whether or not it actually IS for his careers benefit in the long term or not

i dont think another year or 2 at villa would do his prospects at moving anywhere else any harm anyway, so i wouldnt be surprised if he stays for next season on the condition that villa have to prove ourselves to be able to challenge for a place in the top 4. if he does, and we dont, i can see an agreement being in place for him to move next summer

Helix

The Guardian wrote:

Rafael Benítez has poured more fuel on his row with Martin O'Neill by claiming Gareth Barry wants to leave Aston Villa. The Liverpool manager, responding to O'Neill's stinging attack on Friday, suggested that the England international was intent on quitting Villa Park, a revelation which is certain to strain relations between the two clubs further.

"If your captain wants to leave it's a problem but that's football," said Benítez.

O'Neill has argued otherwise since Liverpool's interest in the player was leaked 11 days ago. It is understood that Barry did not declare a desire to leave when he met O'Neill yesterday for talks but Villa supporters would be naive to interpret the captain's reticence as a show of loyalty. With Liverpool so keen on signing Barry there is no need for the midfielder to agitate for a move to Anfield.

thats an interesting one there in bold

emc2

Helix wrote: »

i think barry has to weigh up whether

a) he wants to play as a left back
b) he wants to be a bit part player
c) he wants to move to play under a manager who has dealt with the whole thing in a public manner, putting unfair pressure on him as the villa captain
d) potentially losing his england place if he doesnt play enough

against

a) staying as villa captain and continuing our improvement
b) being a first team regular who the team is built around
c) keeping his england place if he continues to perform, as he'll always be in the team

i dont think loyalty comes into it as hes perfectly entitled to move if he thinks its for the best in his career, the question here is whether or not it actually IS for his careers benefit in the long term or not

i dont think another year or 2 at villa would do his prospects at moving anywhere else any harm anyway, so i wouldnt be surprised if he stays for next season on the condition that villa have to prove ourselves to be able to challenge for a place in the top 4. if he does, and we dont, i can see an agreement being in place for him to move next summer

good post, if arsenal come in with a bid I think he'd go to them as he would be more than likely to be playing as a central midfielder for them.

IrishMike

Helix wrote: »

i think barry has to weigh up whether

a) he wants to play as a left back
b) he wants to be a bit part player
c) he wants to move to play under a manager who has dealt with the whole thing in a public manner, putting unfair pressure on him as the villa captain
d) potentially losing his england place if he doesnt play enough

against

a) staying as villa captain and continuing our improvement
b) being a first team regular who the team is built around
c) keeping his england place if he continues to perform, as he'll always be in the team

i dont think loyalty comes into it as hes perfectly entitled to move if he thinks its for the best in his career, the question here is whether or not it actually IS for his careers benefit in the long term or not


i dont think another year or 2 at villa would do his prospects at moving anywhere else any harm anyway, so i wouldnt be surprised if he stays for next season on the condition that villa have to prove ourselves to be able to challenge for a place in the top 4. if he does, and we dont, i can see an agreement being in place for him to move next summer

Is it not all about money and the possibility of winning trophies?
I think Barry would be more than happy to play 10 or 15 games less a season
but actually have a chance of winning something every year.
Would it not benefit his development to be playing in the CL?

Helix

IrishMike wrote: »

Is it not all about money and the possibility of winning trophies?
I think Barry would be more than happy to play 10 or 15 games less a season
but actually have a chance of winning something every year.

i dont think its all about money with barry tbh

trophies yes, im sure hed like to win something, but you have to remember hes still only 27, theres no reason for him not to give it another year with villa on the conditions i posted above and i would imagine thats exactly what o'neill was stressing at their meeting

GBX

Helix wrote: »

i dont think its all about money with barry tbh

trophies yes, im sure hed like to win something, but you have to remember hes still only 27, theres no reason for him not to give it another year with villa on the conditions i posted above and i would imagine thats exactly what o'neill was stressing at their meeting

He has 2 years left to run on his contract, so an extension is not really an option. So what do villa do: Ask him to stay in the hope of improving next year and challenging or move to say Liverpool or Arsenal where they would be challenging anyways.

zing

Helix wrote: »

express & star i think it is

the web is different, every got hold of it after the echo so it was literally up everywhere within an hour, but they ran it in print the day after the bid did they not?

Dunno - a lot of those regional papers are closely linked and share stories of common interest with each other (both directly and rewriting as appropriate). Some don't hit the streets until lunch time and some have evening editions, etc.. but with the Echo I've generally found whatever is on line on a given day is what will be in print on that day.

Express & Star ran with it on the same day as well but the only article I can find claiming to have an exclusive on it was TB's in the Echo.

What I was wondering originally was did he break it or pick up from b'ham press and then run with it - possibly confirming with the club first. To me it looks like the former.

IrishMike

Helix wrote: »

i dont think its all about money with barry tbh

trophies yes, im sure hed like to win something, but you have to remember hes still only 27, theres no reason for him not to give it another year with villa on the conditions i posted above and i would imagine thats exactly what o'neill was stressing at their meeting

Of course there is a reason.
He is 27 not 20. Why would he spend another year in midtable when he could
be playing in the champions league or helping to mount a premiership challenge.
If he doesnt go to Liverpool this season do you honestly think Rafa will wait a
year for him to change his mind? No he will buy someone else.
Next summer his chance will have passed.
Its not every day a top 4 team attempts to buy you.
Unless your are world class they are definitely not going to attempt to buy
you again if you refuse them the first time.
Barry would be mad to turn down Liverpool IMHO.

Would Michael Carrick trade playing 15 games more a season for Spurs over
where he is now? I think not
And do u think fergie would have bought him a year later if he turned them
down the first time........ me neither.

Mr Alan

Helix wrote: »

a) he wants to play as a left back
b) he wants to be a bit part player
c) he wants to move to play under a manager who has dealt with the whole thing in a public manner, putting unfair pressure on him as the villa captain
d) potentially losing his england place if he doesnt play enough

A: would not expect him to play there regularly if at all, mainly just providing Rafa with more options for cover. Which we all know he loves.

B: I think he would play a lot if he came to us. Maybe 10 games less than at Villa. But that'd be made up most probably from longer cup runs and the CL.

C: Only one manager dealt with all this pubically initially. Initially only one manager tried to put pressure on Barry publically. It wasnt Rafa.

Playing regularly for Liverpool in the CL and league would help his England chances, not hinder them.

All the above said, if Barry chose to stay at Villa, i wouldnt begrudge him or them that and would be impressed by his loyalty, as i already have been over the last few years.

Helix

IrishMike wrote: »

Of course there is a reason.
He is 27 not 20. Why would he spend another year in midtable when he could
be playing in the champions league or helping to mount a premiership challenge.
If he doesnt go to Liverpool this season do you honestly think Rafa will wait a
year for him to change his mind? No he will buy someone else.
Next summer his chance will have passed.
Its not every day a top 4 team attempts to buy you.
Unless your are world class they are definitely not going to attempt to buy
you again if you refuse them the first time.
Barry would be mad to turn down Liverpool IMHO.

Would Michael Carrick trade playing 15 games more a season for Spurs over
where he is now? I think not
And do u think fergie would have bought him a year later if he turned them
down the first time........ me neither.

if barry stays and performs for villa (worth noting this season was far from his best), he'll have better options than liverpool

Cyrus

Helix wrote: »

if barry stays and performs for villa (worth noting this season was far from his best), he'll have better options than liverpool

what kind of options?

zing

Helix wrote: »

c) he wants to move to play under a manager who has dealt with the whole thing in a public manner, putting unfair pressure on him as the villa captain

tbh I'm really not sure which manager you're referring to there as to me that comment applies to both. MON is the one who spoke publicly about it initially iirc and ever since then they both appear to be clarifying each others comments about when they spoke, how long they spoke for, what they spoke about, what type of feckin phone they spoke on, etc.. while at the same time getting a dig or two in at the other/the other club.

IrishMike

Helix wrote: »

if barry stays and performs for villa (worth noting this season was far from his best), he'll have better options than liverpool

What the hell?
How would he have better options ?

Mr Alan

zing wrote: »

tbh I'm really not sure which manager you're referring to there as to me that comment applies to both. MON is the one who spoke publicly about it initially iirc and ever since then they both appear to be clarifying each others comments about when they spoke, how long they spoke for, what they spoke about, what type of feckin phone they spoke on, etc.. while at the same time getting a dig or two in at the other/the other club.

Rafa didnt make any comment for about a week after O'Neill initially broke the story despite O'Neill going on and on every day about it. Even when he did it was only after O'Neill started bad mouthing him and Liverpool in the press.

spockety

And around and round and round we go, where will it stop, nobody knows!

Helix, we know you are upset at the perceived way in which this is being conducted, and obviously you are as upset as Martin O'Neill is at the prospect of losing one of your best players.

You've made your point, we don't all agree with it, but you've made it nonetheless, so can we please move on from this now?

redspider

And so the season ends with:

Liverpool 4th in league, CL qualification, 11pts behind winners, 11pts ahead of 5th
semi-final in CL
nowhere in FA Cup or League Cup

So, overall not a bad season, on 'target' in terms of acceptable targets. Its questionable as to whether any tangible progress has been made, but Liverpool are clearly holding their own. The progress has been made in personnel in some respects, such as Torres, and perhaps formation. Perhaps a full run at the league with 4-2-3-1 and NOT optimising for the CL would yield a better result. But the CL is so tempting.

Of course the downside to the season is the ownership squabble and this remains as a cloud and must be holding the club back to some degree. Lets hope it gets sorted out at some stage. I'd prefer it sooner rather than later but I think it is possible it could stretch until the current loans run out.

League table:

Team P - W D L F A - W D L F A - GD PTS
1 Man Utd 38 - 17 1 1 47 7 - 10 5 4 33 15 - 58 87
2 Chelsea 38 - 12 7 0 36 13 - 13 3 3 29 13 - 39 85
3 Arsenal 38 - 14 5 0 37 11 - 10 6 3 37 20 - 43 83
4 Liverpool 38 - 12 6 1 43 13 - 9 7 3 24 15 - 39 76
5 Everton 38 - 11 4 4 34 17 - 8 4 7 21 16 - 22 65

Ironically, it was Liverpool's home form which let them down the most relatively (home+away):
Man Utd 52 + 35
Chelsea 43 + 42
Arsenal 47 + 36
Liverpool 42 + 34
Everton 37 + 28

If Chelsea also had produced expected home form (eg: 47 pts), they would have won the league. If Liverpool could have drawn their 2 games with Man Utd, Man Utd would have been on 83 (along with Arsenal) and Liverpool on 78 and Chelsea would also have won the league in that case.

So, overall, there is not a large gap between the top-4 clubs, it is actually quite close and us Liverpool fans have hopes of being fairly optimistic ..... although there is plenty of work to do.

Redspider

Helix

spockety wrote: »

obviously you are as upset as Martin O'Neill is at the prospect of losing one of your best players

no no, ive said since he was lined with arsenal and chelsea way back when that id take £14m for him in a flash

ButcherOfNog

Good post Redspider, I'm actually pretty happy with the progress in the league, next season we need to take some points off UTD, and at least beat both Arsenal and Chelsea once in the league. This season pool were very consistant against the lower teams, it was with the results against the top 4 where they came up short.

ButcherOfNog

ButcherOfNog wrote: »

Good post Redspider, I'm actually pretty happy with the progress in the league, next season we need to take some points off UTD, and at least beat both Arsenal and Chelsea once in the league. This season pool were very consistant against the lower teams, it was with the results against the top 4 where they came up short.

Alot of silly draws elsewhere too though mate.

Cyrus

no more than the other top 4 tho

Boggles

redspider wrote: »

If Chelsea also had produced expected home form (eg: 47 pts), they would have won the league. If Liverpool could have drawn their 2 games with Man Utd, Man Utd would have been on 83 (along with Arsenal) and Liverpool on 78 and Chelsea would also have won the league in that case.

So, overall, there is not a large gap between the top-4 clubs, it is actually quite close and us Liverpool fans have hopes of being fairly optimistic ..... although there is plenty of work to do.

Redspider

And sure if this happened and that happened and this happended......

The league is a fair reflection this season on how the teams have done IMO, you could apply your logic to any team and it makes them look much better than they are, but that is what it is, Fantasy!

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

And sure if this happened and that happened and this happended......

The league is a fair reflection this season on how the teams have done IMO, you could apply your logic to any team and it makes them look much better than they are, but that is what it is, Fantasy!

he was illustrating how small the gap is between the top 4 Boggles, NOT trying to belittle Utds achievement.

He illustrated it quite well imo.

mike65

Liverpools 76 points is the highest so far for a 4th placed team, Arsenals third is the highest yet for a third placed team, and guess what? Cheleas second is the highest for the runners up spot. The bar keeps getting raised.

Mike.

DeadSkin

Our worst league results this season were the draws at home to Wigan/Birmingham/Spurs/Villa.
8 points there dropped.

It just shows what a fine line there is between the top 4 clubs, just look what those 2 losses against Man Utd do to the table.

Excluding the 2 defeats against Man Utd, we lost twice more, away at Reading & West Ham, but what killed us imo were the 13 draws[a third of all games].

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

he was illustrating how small the gap is between the top 4 Boggles, NOT trying to belittle Utds achievement.

He illustrated it quite well imo.

No he didn't he applied Fantasy results to the league, which ended up with Chelsea winning it and Liverpool on 78 points. There is no need to do that, the league and gaps are there to be seen.

Liverpool are 11 points behind United, 9 Behind Chelsea and 6 behind Arsenal.

I could do the exact same thing with Arsenal and they would have been crowned champions.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he applied Fantasy results to the league, which ended up with Chelsea winning it and Liverpool on 78 points. There is not need to do that, the league and gaps are there to be seen.

Liverpool are 11 points behind United, 9 Behind Chelsea and 6 behind Arsenal.

I could do the exact same thing with Arsenal and they would have been crowned champions.

Well done.

The point that redspider is trying to make is that Liverpool are progressing.
They are not going to make the step up in 1 year or even 4 years.
It will take consistent improvement.
What redspider is saying is that the gap between the top 4 is very very small
and it is, a few results either way could have drastically changed the table.
Its a far cry from United being runaway leaders and is good for the premiership.
Stop being so damn touchy boggles

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he applied Fantasy results to the league, which ended up with Chelsea winning it and Liverpool on 78 points. There is no need to do that, the league and gaps are there to be seen.

Liverpool are 11 points behind United, 9 Behind Chelsea and 6 behind Arsenal.

I could do the exact same thing with Arsenal and they would have been crowned champions.

Go away and troll somewhere else. His post was reasonable. One more and I'm putting you on ignore.

Spud83

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he applied Fantasy results to the league, which ended up with Chelsea winning it and Liverpool on 78 points. There is no need to do that, the league and gaps are there to be seen.

Liverpool are 11 points behind United, 9 Behind Chelsea and 6 behind Arsenal.

I could do the exact same thing with Arsenal and they would have been crowned champions.

The point he ws making is that if Liverpool get the same kind of results or improve slightly against the clubs outside the top four, and improve there results against the top four they could mount a very credible league challenge next year.

IMO he was looking towards what needs to be done next season based on the results of this season.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

No he didn't he applied Fantasy results to the league, which ended up with Chelsea winning it and Liverpool on 78 points. There is no need to do that, the league and gaps are there to be seen.

Liverpool are 11 points behind United, 9 Behind Chelsea and 6 behind Arsenal.

I could do the exact same thing with Arsenal and they would have been crowned champions.

thats his point Boggles! you're missing it altogether. 3 different results over the course of the season and any of the topn 4 could've won the league.

therefore its safe to assume the gap is very little. certainly not as much as people would like to make it out to be.

again, this is not him or me having a pop at Utd, they deserved to win the league this year.

Cyrus

DeadSkin wrote: »

Our worst league results this season were the draws at home to Wigan/Birmingham/Spurs/Villa.
8 points there dropped.

It just shows what a fine line there is between the top 4 clubs, just look what those 2 losses against Man Utd do to the table.

Excluding the 2 defeats against Man Utd, we lost twice more, away at Reading & West Ham, but what killed us imo were the 13 draws[a third of all games].

again, we were no worse, or just as good whatever way you like

against the teams outside the top 4 as united (i think they got one point more against these teams) our record against the other big 3 is what sucks,

to be honest i think thats a good thing, we know we are good enough now against the lesser teams, we now need that extra bit of quality to be able beat the really good teams.

Boggles

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Go away and troll somewhere else. His post was reasonable. One more and I'm putting you on ignore.

It most certainly was not a troll, there is enough of that going on at the moment. I attack the post not the poster.

What he said was flawed, he was trying to illustrate that the gap appeared smaller than what it actually was, but he only applied points to suit Liverpool, he didn't take into Account if United had got X result here or if Arsenal got X result there.

Do you see my point, I could apply the same logic to any 1 team and make them look better.

LuckyLloyd

Cyrus wrote: »

again, we were no worse, or just as good whatever way you like

against the teams outside the top 4 as united (i think they got one point more against these teams) our record against the other big 3 is what sucks,

to be honest i think thats a good thing, we know we are good enough now against the lesser teams, we now need that extra bit of quality to be able beat the really good teams.

And grind it out week in, week out because we are better from all over the pitch and can cope with the loss / off days of key players.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

It most certainly was not a troll, there is enough of that going on at the moment. I attack the post not the poster.

What he said was flawed, he was trying to illustrate that the gap appeared smaller than what it actually was, but he only applied points to suit Liverpool, he didn't take into Account if United had got X result here or if Arsenal got X result there.

Do you see my point, I could apply the same logic to any 1 team and make them look better.

mike65

Cyrus wrote: »

against the teams outside the top 4 as united (i think they got one point more against these teams) our record against the other big 3 is what sucks,

to be honest i think thats a good thing, we know we are good enough now against the lesser teams, we now need that extra bit of quality to be able beat the really good teams.

I take a different view.

If Liverpool had beaten Brum (twice), Reading, West Ham, Boro, Wigan and City and even Villa it would'nt matter what happened with Utd, who were the only other Big 4 team to beat Liverpool this season. The problem isnt the other big 3 - its failure to squash minnows.

Mike.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

It most certainly was not a troll, there is enough of that going on at the moment. I attack the post not the poster.

What he said was flawed, he was trying to illustrate that the gap appeared smaller than what it actually was, but he only applied points to suit Liverpool, he didn't take into Account if United had got X result here or if Arsenal got X result there.

Do you see my point, I could apply the same logic to any 1 team and make them look better.

Do you even read posts before you reply?
Seriously ........
Thats the exact point redspider, me, mr alan etc are making
You are disagreeing with it then saying the reason why is the exact same as
the reason why you are disagreeing in the first place
For crying out loud man we are saying that with 2 or 3 results going different
ways any of the top 4 could have won the premiership
We all know United won it, unlike you we can see the blatently obvious :rolleyes:

LuckyLloyd

Boggles wrote: »

It most certainly was not a troll, there is enough of that going on at the moment. I attack the post not the poster.

What he said was flawed, he was trying to illustrate that the gap appeared smaller than what it actually was, but he only applied points to suit Liverpool, he didn't take into Account if United had got X result here or if Arsenal got X result there.

Do you see my point, I could apply the same logic to any 1 team and make them look better.

Over a 38 game sample size I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at a couple of close results and imagine what might have been if the small things went a clubs way. Yes, every team could do this - so in Utd's case we could think about the injury time equalizer at Spurs and Wigan's smash and grab at Stamford Bridge?

Utd won and deserved it over the 38 games. That is not up for debate. But I think it is perfectly reasonable to look at our season and focus on where points were lost and what is required to get them next year rather than just shrugging and going "we lost, here's hoping for next year". We are allowed to analyze the season gone as a fan and attempt to draw conclusions on what we didn't do that the other 3 did do.

However, in my opinion a 38 game stretch is not as conclusive a sample size as people make it out to be. The bounce of the ball and refereeing decisions balance out over years but certainty don't over a single season. I think it is reasonable to say "what if?" about this and that if one is inclined.