Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

mormank

cant write off carragher as a centre half just yet. imo carragher and skrtel. skrtel very good in every game he has played. losing him in the semi final against chelsea was a massive blow and i believe we would be in the final now if he wasnt injured in that game...

voronin to go anywhere would be great. 10m for zarate is alot

IrishMike

- Liverpool will launch a shock move to sign Florent Malouda for around £10m if DIC complete takeover of club. (Sun)


Ok thats a bit from leftfield.
Would be a good signing though and very cheap @ £10m

RE*AC*TOR

The source of that says it all.

Bull IMO.

gucci

IrishMike wrote: »

- Liverpool will launch a shock move to sign Florent Malouda for around £10m if DIC complete takeover of club. (Sun)


Ok thats a bit from leftfield.
Would be a good signing though and very cheap @ £10m

Do you really think so? Ok it is the Sun, but lets consider this, he plays left wing (where Babel does) and although i was disappointed we didn't sign him last season, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire at Stamford Bridge?
Chelsea dont normally sell young players to their direct rivals (Scott Parker, Duff ending up at NEWCASTLE) so i think this deal is a long shot.

Malice

IrishMike wrote: »

- Liverpool will launch a shock move to sign Florent Malouda for around £10m if DIC complete takeover of club. (Sun)


Ok thats a bit from leftfield.
Would be a good signing though and very cheap @ £10m

How exactly would he be a good signing? He turned us down last season for more money from Chelsea and he's looked terrible there. Why in God's name would we want him? I think the Sun's Transfer Rumour Generator is working overtime again. Pick a random player, club and price and make out it's an EXCLUSIVE.

Pyjamarama

malice_ wrote: »

How exactly would he be a good signing? He turned us down last season for more money from Chelsea and he's looked terrible there. Why in God's name would we want him? I think the Sun's Transfer Rumour Generator is working overtime again. Pick a random player, club and price and make out it's an EXCLUSIVE.

Yup the old Family Guy style of writing in effect me thinks! Big Pool of Manaties!

Just sitting here thinking how awesome Ashley Young would look in Red... Completely unobtainable imo but still if we could sign anyone (realistically, not Messi or Ronaldo) it'd be him...

IrishMike

malice_ wrote: »

How exactly would he be a good signing? He turned us down last season for more money from Chelsea and he's looked terrible there. Why in God's name would we want him? I think the Sun's Transfer Rumour Generator is working overtime again. Pick a random player, club and price and make out it's an EXCLUSIVE.

Did he not come out in the papers saying he wanted to join Liverpool but
Liverpool coundnt stump up the money.
It was Liverpool ****ing it up rather than him turning Liverpool down in fairness.
And to say he hasnt set Chelsea alight doesnt really mean much, SWP has
been there for at least 2 years and i would buy him in a heartbeat even
though he has done nothing in that time.
Malouda is an excellent player, you dont lose that overnight.
Quality wingers are a rarity and i for one would love to see him play at anfield.

gucci

IrishMike wrote: »

Did he not come out in the papers saying he wanted to join Liverpool but
Liverpool coundnt stump up the money.
It was Liverpool ****ing it up rather than him turning Liverpool down in fairness.
And to say he hasnt set Chelsea alight doesnt really mean much, SWP has
been there for at least 2 years and i would buy him in a heartbeat even
though he has done nothing in that time.
Malouda is an excellent player, you dont lose that overnight.
Quality wingers are a rarity and i for one would love to see him play at anfield.

Yeah but would we not be better off with SWP than Moluda seen as how we have Babel? Are you effectively taking Malouda to take Kewells place in the squad? We probably do need another left winger as Babel seems a bit of a rough diamond just yet, but dont think this move is gonna happen.

Malice

IrishMike wrote: »

Did he not come out in the papers saying he wanted to join Liverpool but
Liverpool coundnt stump up the money.
It was Liverpool ****ing it up rather than him turning Liverpool down in fairness.

Are you saying we couldn't afford to pay his wages? That doesn't sound right to me at all. If you mean his transfer fee, how come if we couldn't stump up that fee we went out and bought Babel afterwards?

IrishMike wrote:

And to say he hasnt set Chelsea alight doesnt really mean much

Of course it does! Take Fernando Morientes for example. He's a top quality striker that couldn't settle at Liverpool for various reasons. Were other English clubs queuing up to sign him after he didn't do much at Liverpool?

IrishMike

malice_ wrote: »

Are you saying we couldn't afford to pay his wages? That doesn't sound right to me at all. If you mean his transfer fee, how come if we couldn't stump up that fee we went out and bought Babel afterwards?

Wasnt it that Liverpool were diddering over the transfer fee and that Chelsea
came in with a bigger cash offer and got him?
Memory is a little hazy but i think thats what happened.

Of course it does! Take Fernando Morientes for example. He's a top quality striker that couldn't settle at Liverpool for various reasons. Were other English clubs queuing up to sign him after he didn't do much at Liverpool?

Just because you dont perform at one club doesnt mean you are automatically a poor player.
Do you honestly think that if AC Milan resigned Shevchenko that he wouldnt
score 20+ goals next season?
Sometimes a system, training regime, manager etc doesnt suit a player.
Morientes as you have already pointed out is a prime example, didnt settle
at Liverpool but no one can doubt his ability or quality.

IrishMike

gucci wrote: »

Yeah but would we not be better off with SWP than Moluda seen as how we have Babel? Are you effectively taking Malouda to take Kewells place in the squad? We probably do need another left winger as Babel seems a bit of a rough diamond just yet, but dont think this move is gonna happen.

Isnt SWP a bit of a rough diamond too though?
He is very like babel and has been languishing in the Chelsea squad for 2 years now without playing much, surely this will have stunted his development.
Malouda has been there a year, is a better player and i for one would take a chance on him.
Considering he will be £5 or £6 m cheaper than bentley i think that puts it in perspective.

mike65

Jebus I hate this time of year - betwixt and between. Nothing but BS.

As for Carra he'll be back-up to Agger/Skrtel by January if not sooner.

Mike.

flanzer

FFS sake hicks, onyour fupping bike mate. Could speed up the process of DIC taking over, hopefully. What a lying arsehole

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/mhgbcwauidid/

Fresh doubts have been raised over Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks’ ability to fund the club’s proposed new home in Stanley Park following a shock decision to delay the building of a stadium in Texas.

Hicks has admitted he has been unable to secure financing for the Glorypark mixed-use development in Arlington, Texas that was scheduled to open in March 2010.

The £500m dollar venture has been put on hold because of the credit squeeze and troubled retail market.

Hicks said in an interview with the Dallas Morning News: “We are in the most difficult credit crunch I have seen the last 20 years.”

That revelation will give more hope to prospective buyers of Liverpool, Dubai International Capital, who have long believed Hicks – and his estranged co-owner George Gillett – have found it virtually impossible to raise further loans to facilitate the move from Anfield.

It is believed Hicks must find funding over the next few months to build the club’s new £350m stadium.

However, if his Hicks Holdings group have been unable to find the cash in the current market for their Arlington plans, critics in the UK will wonder how the money for the move will be raised in the current financial climate.

Hicks’ announcement over the Arlington stadium comes a week after a Dallas hotel project in which he is also involved was delayed.

Construction was scheduled to start this spring on the Glorypark project adjacent to the Texas Rangers Ballpark in Arlington, and close to the Dallas Cowboys new $1.1bn (€6.4m) stadium.

Hicks owns the Rangers baseball club as well as the Dallas Stars ice hockey team.

The completion of Glorypark, which would have included restaurants, retail, residential and office space, had been delayed at least twice previously.

Last week, Liverpool gained their third planning permission for the revised Stanley Park scheme.

Hicks said at the weekend: “Site work will start in September and actual construction in late October/early November, with completion in time for the season starting in August 2011.”

Malice

IrishMike wrote: »

Just because you dont perform at one club doesnt mean you are automatically a poor player.
Do you honestly think that if AC Milan resigned Shevchenko that he wouldnt
score 20+ goals next season?
Sometimes a system, training regime, manager etc doesnt suit a player.
Morientes as you have already pointed out is a prime example, didnt settle
at Liverpool but no one can doubt his ability or quality.

That was what I was getting at in a long-winded way. Not many Liverpool fans thought Torres would settle as well and as quickly as he did so it's not something you can rely on. Malouda hasn't settled into the English game that well so I don't think he would suit Liverpool where he'll still be playing in England. Morientes went back to Spain and started scoring again and we all know how good Shevchenko was in Italy so no doubt he would do well there again.

IrishMike wrote:

Isnt SWP a bit of a rough diamond too though?
He is very like babel and has been languishing in the Chelsea squad for 2 years now without playing much, surely this will have stunted his development.

Bentley could still be stuck in the Arsenal reserves had he not moved to Blackburn for the good of his career. For that reason alone I would prefer him at Anfield rather than Wright-Philips who just followed the lure of a big pay rise without thinking about what was best for his career.

IrishMike

malice_ wrote: »

That was what I was getting at in a long-winded way. Not many Liverpool fans thought Torres would settle as well and as quickly as he did so it's not something you can rely on. Malouda hasn't settled into the English game that well so I don't think he would suit Liverpool where he'll still be playing in England. Morientes went back to Spain and started scoring again and we all know how good Shevchenko was in Italy so no doubt he would do well there again.

Malouda in fairness has only had 20 appearances this season inc sub
appearances so its a bit hasty to say he hasnt settled.
Mascherano on his first season with West Ham was terrible.

Bentley could still be stuck in the Arsenal reserves had he not moved to Blackburn for the good of his career. For that reason alone I would prefer him at Anfield rather than Wright-Philips who just followed the lure of a big pay rise without thinking about what was best for his career.

Yes but if Wenger who is probably the best judge of young talent ever
thinks Bentley wasnt good enough for Arsenal then thats good enough for me.
I would not like to see him at Liverpool, dont think he is fast enough
for a real counterattacking team, think his ego is scary every time i heard him
speak and i think his transfer fee will be hugely inflated due to him being english.

Mr Alan

Malouda said he didnt want to come to Anfield cause there was too many sharks involved in the transfer.

Make of that wat you will, but i dont want him.

Prefer SWP,Bentley or Young.

If we are getting rid of Voronin, i'd also like to see us make a move for Ashton.

gucci

IrishMike wrote: »

Malouda in fairness has only had 20 appearances this season inc sub
appearances so its a bit hasty to say he hasnt settled.
Mascherano on his first season with West Ham was terrible.

Fair points both of them, but I just feel this is a non-story, Chelsea wont off load anyone to Liverpool/Arsenal/Man U imo.

SWPs fee would no doubt be more seen as hes younger and English International.

joker77

gucci wrote: »

Fair points both of them, but I just feel this is a non-story, Chelsea wont off load anyone to Liverpool/Arsenal/Man U imo.

eh.. Gallas?

Mr Alan

part of the ashley cole deal, so not really the same thing at all

joker77

How is it not the same thing at all? Gallas wasn't settled at Chelsea, and they offloaded him to Arsenal. Just because there was a player going the other way, doesn't mean they didn't offload him.

IrishMike

gucci wrote: »

Fair points both of them, but I just feel this is a non-story, Chelsea wont off load anyone to Liverpool/Arsenal/Man U imo.

SWPs fee would no doubt be more seen as hes younger and English International.

Maybe true but this is more a what if thread half the time
So im saying what if Malouda was signed what would people think?
Dont really get why people wouldnt welcome it, we are crying out for wingers.
He would definitely be the best winger at the club if he signed

Spud83

Diarra?

DeadSkin

LIVERPOOL co-owner Tom Hicks was today forced to abandon plans for a multi million dollar development in Dallas because of the credit crunch - sparking major concerns over his finances and ambitions for Anfield.

More bad news

Mr Alan

joker77 wrote: »

How is it not the same thing at all? Gallas wasn't settled at Chelsea, and they offloaded him to Arsenal. Just because there was a player going the other way, doesn't mean they didn't offload him.

Chelsea were desperate to get Ashley Cole...thats the only reason they offloaded Gallas to Arsenal imo. They thought they were getting the much better deal, imo, they werent.

IrishMike wrote: »

Maybe true but this is more a what if thread half the time
So im saying what if Malouda was signed what would people think?
Dont really get why people wouldnt welcome it, we are crying out for wingers.
He would definitely be the best winger at the club if he signed

Yea i know wat you mean.

I just think signing Malouda would be more of a risk than any of the other lads i mentioned. But for 10 million, it would probably be worth a punt and i'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mr Alan

DeadSkin wrote: »

More bad news

good news no?

Hicks is gonna have to sell up soon at this rate.

DeadSkin

Mr Alan wrote: »

good news no?

Hicks is gonna have to sell up soon at this rate.

For sure :pac:.
Didn't look at it that way.

gucci

joker77 wrote: »

eh.. Gallas?

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Diarra?

Oops....
Still I think this whole Moluda thing is a non-story!

joker77

Mr Alan wrote: »

Chelsea were desperate to get Ashley Cole...thats the only reason they offloaded Gallas to Arsenal imo. They thought they were getting the much better deal, imo, they werent.

Agreed, I don't think it was a better deal at all!

But the point still remains - I don't think Chelsea would have a major problem selling to Arsenal/Liverpool, if it was a player they wanted to offload. I think they might have a problem with United alright.

Mr Alan

gucci wrote: »

Oops....
Still I think this whole Moluda thing is a non-story!

not sure....

joker77

gucci wrote: »

Oops....
Still I think this whole Moluda thing is a non-story!

Also agreed, it's complete paper talk. There'll be a whole lot more of it over the next couple of months...

IrishMike

Mr Alan wrote: »

I just think signing Malouda would be more of a risk than any of the other lads i mentioned. But for 10 million, it would probably be worth a punt and i'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

Maybe true Alan.
Just wondering about Bentley though, is he not the next Pennant?
Had a good season in fairness to him but if Pennant was at Blackburn,
getting 30+ games a season in a team with a lot less "stars" than Liverpool would
he look a very very good player too?
Thing is Liverpool dont need another very good winger, they need an excellent winger.
Bentley for me is not one and if he had the potential to be one Wenger would surely have kept him.

Mr Alan

pretty sure i read somewhere a while back how Wenger regretted letting Bentley go.

He is much better than Pennant, great crosser of the ball, great striker of the ball.

Top top player (TM SKY Sports)

Tusky

So Rafa has said that he is not selling Alonso and Alonso has said he is not leaving. Why the **** are we in for Barry when we seem so stuck for cash ? Bah. Makes my blood boil.

Rafa spend your entire budget on additional quality on the flanks! If that means bringing in just two or even just one player, so be it...

Mr Alan

worth noting tusky, if Argentina or Brazil do well in the Olympics, Alonso and Gerrard will be our only choice for the midfield for the first 5 weeks of the season or something, think Barry would be an excellent buy tbh.

IrishMike

Good point but 10m for a midfielder for just those games is a bit mad dont you think?
Dont really think that is the reason Rafa is chasing Barry.
Competition for Alonso and an injury free pre season might help him recapture his form

75% is still better than him.

Mr Alan

i dont think thats the sole reason for it, i think he wants him cause he is an excellent player. and we need more excellent players in our squad. ones who are captains of their club (frightening the amount of captains Rafa tries to sign/signs) and versatile makes it all the better.

gucci

IrishMike wrote: »

Good point but 10m for a midfielder for just those games is a bit mad dont you think?
Dont really think that is the reason Rafa is chasing Barry.
Competition for Alonso and an injury free pre season might help him recapture his form

75% is still better than him.

That is to say, i pray and hope he doesn't arrive back from the Euros with a knock and a post tournament hangover/tiredness.

Boggles

I'd be shocked if Villa let Barry go for 10 million. You would be looking at more in the region of what United payed for Carrick.

Looking at it from Villa's point of view, 10 million won't come close to replacing him.

Mr Alan

quite a bit older than Carrick and not long left on his contract.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

quite a bit older than Carrick and not long left on his contract.

He is 6 or 7 months older than Carrick with 2 years left on his contract, the same as Carrick had at Spurs.

Carrick was younger when he signed for United, but you could argue that Barry is at his peak at 27, club captain, aparent English first choice player. If he signs it won't be for more than a 4 or 5 year contract.

Plus he is English, prices are always more inflated.

Cyrus

well boggles why dont we just wait and see what he goes for,

it wont be 17m, i can guarantee that right now, liverpool wont pay it

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

He is 6 or 7 months older than Carrick with 2 years left on his contract, the same as Carrick had at Spurs.

that was my point that he was a few years younger when he went from Spurs to Utd.

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

well boggles why dont we just wait and see what he goes for,

We have no choice really, have we.

Cyrus wrote: »

it wont be 17m, i can guarantee that right now, liverpool wont pay it

Well if your guaranteing it.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

worth noting tusky, if Argentina or Brazil do well in the Olympics, Alonso and Gerrard will be our only choice for the midfield for the first 5 weeks of the season or something, think Barry would be an excellent buy tbh.

Gerrard, Alonso & Plesis could do a fine job for the first few weeks. Its not even certain that Mascherano is going to the Olympics yet.

Mr Alan wrote: »

i dont think thats the sole reason for it, i think he wants him cause he is an excellent player. and we need more excellent players in our squad. ones who are captains of their club (frightening the amount of captains Rafa tries to sign/signs) and versatile makes it all the better.

An excellent player ? Maybe. He plays in the position that we are strongest in though. We are incredibly weak on the right hand sand, both full back positions and back up for Torres. All reports suggest that we are strapped for cash so I think its retarded to be buying Barry unless we actually have more money than is being let on.

People say "oh but he can pay on the left etc". When are we going to buy a top class genuine winger ? Babel can play on the wing but he isnt a genuine winger. The same can be said for Benayoun & Kuyt. Pennant is a decent player but surely we should be improving upon him.

I wish Rafa would just spend 15 odd million on a top class winger and 10 odd million on a top class full back and leave it at that.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

that was my point that he was a few years younger when he went from Spurs to Utd.

If anything I think that drove the price of Carrick down, United intially offered 10 million which was rejected, they eventually got him for 14 million up front.

The extra 4.6 million is dependant on Carrick fulfilling certain criteria in his career - something his relative young age of 25 allowed him to do when he signed, Barry's age and the fact that he is percieved as established IMO can't warrant such a deal.

shotamoose

That quote from Alonso doesn't fill me with confidence:

"There has been no movement from Real Madrid, whether official or otherwise.

"At the moment I am with Liverpool, I have a contract with Liverpool and I want to be at Liverpool.

"I have been surprised and very disappointed to read that I want to leave Liverpool. The people who write these things have clearly not done very rigorous research."

He's saying that it's not as if he's dying to leave Liverpool, which is fair enough. But reading between the lines it doesn't mean that if and when a good offer comes in from Real he won't seriously consider it.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

If anything I think that drove the price of Carrick down, United intially offered 10 million which was rejected, they eventually got him for 14 million up front.

The extra 4.6 million is dependant on Carrick fulfilling certain criteria in his career - something his relative young age of 25 allowed him to do when he signed, Barry's age and the fact that he is percieved as established IMO can't warrant such a deal.

He is 27, its not as if he is 33.
Of course there can be performance clauses in his contract.
It doesnt matter though, 10m up front and 5m in clauses is still 15m
Thats 15m that could be a lot better spent in my opinion.
Why not sign a 33 or 34 year old midfielder on a 1 year contract ala Garry Mack
if the motivation is to cover for players away on international duty?

Same with Carrick, he didnt cost 14m he cost 18.6m.
He is not worth that much and Barry is not worth 15m.
Would be pretty pissed off if Barry was our biggest signing of the summer.
Will mean another season of finishing 4th at best.

zing

Tusky wrote: »

Why the **** are we in for Barry when we seem so stuck for cash ? Bah. Makes my blood boil.

It would hardly be the first time the club has played the "we're broke" card when it's come to wheeling & dealing in the transfer market regardless of how much we had in the ktity. Personally I see Rafa trying to spend ~10m on a position we're not exactly short on talent in already as something to be optimistic about.

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

Same with Carrick, he didnt cost 14m he cost 18.6m.

Carrick was bought for 14m rising to 18.6m if certain criteria is met.

IrishMike wrote: »

He is not worth that much and Barry is not worth 15m.

It is irrelevant how much a player is worth and a different debate.

English International players prices are inflated, established english international central midfielders are a rariety, to get one you pay a premium, and especially if you are one of the top clubs.

E.G Hargreaves older than Barry and cost 17 million.

Mr Alan

Boggles wat age is Hargeaves? he is still quite young is he not? also worth noting he was bought off one of the biggest clubs in europe who did not really want to sell, and had won many many titles incl league and the CL before coming to Utd, quite different to Carrick again.

Potential is a massive factor when purchasing young players who are already good but had lots of room for improvement, a la Carrick.

Barry is at his level already. He may improve slightly if he was playing with better players, but he is never going to be the best midfielder in the world or anything near it. Carrick on the other hand was young enough to possibly develop into an outstanding player, hasnt happened, but it was a possibility.

See Rio ferdinand/Wayne Rooney for an example of paying way over the odds for a young player based on wat they MAY develop into.