Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Cyrus

hargreaves and barry same age, but united bought hargreaves when he was 26

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

It is irrelevant how much a player is worth and a different debate.

The entire debate is that Barry is not worth 15m especially considering Liverpool are very strong in CM while very weak along the flanks.
The entire debate is that the money could be better spent than on another
midfielder. Value of players is central to this debate.

English International players prices are inflated, established english international central midfielders are a rariety, to get one you pay a premium, and especially if you are one of the top clubs.

E.G Hargreaves older than Barry and cost 17 million.

Hargreaves is a much more accomplished and overall a much better player than Barry if you ask me.
Performed on the highest stage with Bayern for years and always managed to impress.
Plus he is also younger than Barry.
Therefore to value Barry @ 15m and Hargreaves @ 17m doesnt make sense

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Barry is at his level already. He may improve slightly if he was playing with better players, but he is never going to be the best midfielder in the world or anything near it. Carrick on the other hand was young enough to possibly develop into an outstanding player, hasnt happened, but it was a possibility.

That was my point, you have more scope to negotiate the transfer fee of a younger player with performance clauses, thus getting the player intially for a smaller fee, plus potentially for only that fee.

This hinges massively on the selling club assessing the chances of that player achieving his goals at his new club. e.g Spurs would make more money if United won the league with Carrick. Spurs knew when selling Carrick that the chances of his clauses kicking in were excellent.

Barry might not necessarly improve as a player if he moves to Liverpool, but he might improve Liverpool as a team.

If Liverpool were to offer 10 million for Barry and a further 5m if they were to win the league with him within 3 years, that would be more of a risk for Villa and the chances of seeing them achieve the extra 5 million would be percieved alot less.

A players age, standing and also the club he is moving to are massive in determining what these clauses will be.

That's why I think Barry will go for a flat fee and I think it will be more in the region of 15 million.

Tusky

Its comes down to this...and Ive said it so many times in this thread already.

We need a new first choice RW, LB, RB and backup striker...pretty much in that order.

Spending 10-15m on a central midfielder is 10-15m that we could be spending on one or more of those positions. Silly.

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

The entire debate is that Barry is not worth 15m especially considering Liverpool are very strong in CM while very weak along the flanks.
The entire debate is that the money could be better spent than on another
midfielder. Value of players is central to this debate.

A player is worth what a club eventually pays for them, you said Carrick wasn't worth 14 million, that's what United payed for him so he is worth that. What you were getting at is he "worth that", which is a different debate.

IrishMike wrote: »

Hargreaves is a much more accomplished and overall a much better player than Barry if you ask me.

That's your opinion - again a different debate, who is better Hargreaves or Barry, not something I want to get into. The only thing you can judge them on that is a fair reflection is the league this year.

IrishMike wrote: »

Plus he is also younger than Barry.
Therefore to value Barry @ 15m and Hargreaves @ 17m doesnt make sense

He is older than Barry, but he was 26 when he went to United. Just because he has aged a year, doesn't mean his price has dropped to 10 million.

missingtime

Havn't been around in a while but I'm glad to see that there is a general WTF at why rafa is chasing this barry fella.

I'd much prefer to be chasing bentley or even this valencia guy from wigan. I read somewhere that Rafa has cooled his interest on valencia because he wants Barry

Rafa must know that this is his last chance, why is he going for Barry??

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

A player is worth what a club eventually pays for them, you said Carrick wasn't worth 14 million, that's what United payed for him so he is worth that. What you were getting at is he "worth that", which is a different debate.

Thats BS to be honest.
A player is not "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for him.
A player is valued at what someone is willing to pay for him, that doesnt
mean his worth is the same.
Chelsea valued Shevchenko at 30m, is he worth that?
Value is a definitive measure, worth is subjective.

That's your opinion - again a different debate, who is better Hargreaves or Barry, not something I want to get into. The only thing you can judge them on that is a fair reflection is the league this year.

Why is it a different debate?
We are saying Barry is not worth £x amount based on the values of his peers in the market.

He is older than Barry, but he was 26 when he went to United. Just because he has aged a year, doesn't mean his price has dropped to 10 million.

Who said anything about his price dropping by 10m?
What are you talking about?
Im saying Barry is a year older than Hargreaves when he signed for United.
Has achieved a lot less in his career.
Doesnt have the reputation that Hargreaves rightly had at his age.
Yet he is being valued at broadly similiar price which im saying is wrong.

I really dont get what angle you are trying to argue here to be honest

Cyrus

he is trolling again, just leave him be:rolleyes:

IrishMike

Tusky wrote: »

Its comes down to this...and Ive said it so many times in this thread already.

We need a new first choice RW, LB, RB and backup striker...pretty much in that order.

Spending 10-15m on a central midfielder is 10-15m that we could be spending on one or more of those positions. Silly.

Couldnt agree more
Maddness to spend 10-15 on another CM unless the transfer budget is over
40m + whatever we recoup from selling squad players.
But who knows, it very well could be

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

Thats BS to be honest.
A player is not "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for him.
A player is valued at what someone is willing to pay for him, that doesnt
mean his worth is the same.
Chelsea valued Shevchenko at 30m, is he worth that?
Value is a definitive measure, worth is subjective.

That's exactly what I said, but you used the word 'value'.

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

he is trolling again, just leave him be:rolleyes:

If you think I'm trolling, report me.

IrishMike

Boggles wrote: »

A player is worth what a club eventually pays for them, you said Carrick wasn't worth 14 million, that's what United payed for him so he is worth that. What you were getting at is he "worth that", which is a different debate.

IrishMike wrote: »

Thats BS to be honest.
A player is not "worth" whatever someone is willing to pay for him.
A player is valued at what someone is willing to pay for him, that doesnt
mean his worth is the same.
Chelsea valued Shevchenko at 30m, is he worth that?
Value is a definitive measure, worth is subjective.

Boggles wrote: »

That's exactly what I said, but you used the word 'value'.

Can you please explain how what you said is exactly what i said?

What you said is not what i said, in fact its the complete opposite.
What on earth are you arguing semantics with me when its completely irrelevant?
The debate was whether Liverpool should spend 15m on another CM and you
have turned it into a discussion on the English language.
And you then wonder why people dont exactly appreciate your input :rolleyes:
:eek::rolleyes:

DeadSkin

I don't know lads, the mind boggles :pac::pac:

joker77

This is getting very old, very quickly.

Boggles

IrishMike wrote: »

Can you please explain how what you said is exactly what i said?

You used the word Value I used worth, your the one arguing semantics, for the sake of arguing.

IrishMike wrote: »

The debate was whether Liverpool should spend 15m on another CM and you
have turned it into a discussion on the English language.

No what I was debating was the cost to get Barry, which was quiet a sensible one with Mr. Alan until you came wading in.

Boggles wrote: »

I'd be shocked if Villa let Barry go for 10 million. You would be looking at more in the region of what United payed for Carrick.

IrishMike wrote: »

And you then wonder why people dont exactly appreciate your input :rolleyes:
:eek:

Stop getting personal with me please, thank you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

zing

Tusky wrote: »

Spending 10-15m on a central midfielder is 10-15m that we could be spending on one or more of those positions. Silly.

Rafa is a very smart guy - do you actually believe he'd blow a significant amount of our transfer budget on a player who we ultimately don't need ? Not to say that Barry wouldn't be a good addition to the squad but CM is not a position that's crying out for strengthening.

Transfer window hasn't even opened yet and everyone seems to be expecting doom & gloom based one attempted player signing (and one bosman signing ?). Look at it another way - if he can afford to spend 10m ish on a position that doesn't need strengthening then how much has he available for those positions that do need strengthening ? The club always try to keep potential signings quiet until they're as good a done so don't read too much into the names we're being linked with atm. Sure we all know nothing much will happen until after Rick has had his couple of weeks in the sun.

Seriously though - do people actually think Rafa is stupid enough to waste a significant part of his budget on a player we don't need ?

joker77

zing wrote: »

The club always try to keep potential signings quiet until they're as good a done so don't read too much into the names we're being linked with atm.

+1

IrishMike

zing wrote: »

Rafa is a very smart guy - do you actually believe he'd blow a significant amount of our transfer budget on a player who we ultimately don't need ? Not to say that Barry wouldn't be a good addition to the squad but CM is not a position that's crying out for strengthening.

Transfer window hasn't even opened yet and everyone seems to be expecting doom & gloom based one attempted player signing (and one bosman signing ?). Look at it another way - if he can afford to spend 10m ish on a position that doesn't need strengthening then how much has he available for those positions that do need strengthening ? The club always try to keep potential signings quiet until they're as good a done so don't read too much into the names we're being linked with atm. Sure we all know nothing much will happen until after Rick has had his couple of weeks in the sun.

Seriously though - do people actually think Rafa is stupid enough to waste a significant part of his budget on a player we don't need ?

Im sorry zing im a pessimist by nature.
From now on im going to share your optimistic outlook on our new signings
Garreth barry +2 wingers + 2 full backs + a striker! :pac:

ButcherOfNog

It would not surprise me if alot of noise is made about Barry, and we end up getting Young instead, 7 goals and 19 assists in the league? He'd be perfect for us.

Boggles

zing wrote: »

Rafa is a very smart guy - do you actually believe he'd blow a significant amount of our transfer budget on a player who we ultimately don't need ? Not to say that Barry wouldn't be a good addition to the squad but CM is not a position that's crying out for strengthening.

I agree, I think it would be an excellent bit of business for Rafa to get Barry who is one of the proven best central midfielders in the League.

Liverpools central midfield isn't that strong when compared to United, Chelsea & Arsenal (up until a week ago). I think with Gerrards best position playing more forward, Rafa realises this needs to addressed and is so accordingly.

gucci

ButcherOfNog wrote: »

It would not surprise me if alot of noise is made about Barry, and we end up getting Young instead, 7 goals and 19 assists in the league? He'd be perfect for us.

How many of his assists would have been headed goals? And we are going off-loading crouch? (albeit his heading isnt great anyways!) Maybe 'nando will score 10 headed goals next season?

kaimera

Liverpools central midfield isn't that strong when compared to United, Chelsea & Arsenal (up until a week ago).

Don't start that again.

Cyrus

Oh FFS are you for real?

Alonso Mascherano Gerrard are as good a central midfield trio as there is in the EPL

i would not swap them for Carrick/Scholes/Hargreaves or Fabregas/Flamini/Silva or Lampard/Ballack/Essien.

The Chelsea trio are the only ones you could argue as being better and ballack is nearly 32

Jazzy

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ gary neville!!!
thats made me so happy he looks (and probably acts) like gareth from the office. god i hate him

Boggles

Cyrus wrote: »

Oh FFS are you for real?

Alonso Mascherano Gerrard are as good a central midfield trio as there is in the EPL

Gerrards best position is just off Torres, one of the best partnerships in the league, he can't play everywhere.

Alonso was poor this season by his standards and looks like he could be off.

A scoring midfielder is exactly what Liverpool need, and is exactly what Barry is.

Spud83

kaimera wrote: »

Don't start that again.

Cyrus wrote: »

Oh FFS are you for real?

Alonso Mascherano Gerrard are as good a central midfield trio as there is in the EPL

i would not swap them for Carrick/Scholes/Hargreaves or Fabregas/Flamini/Silva or Lampard/Ballack/Essien.

The Chelsea trio are the only ones you could argue as being better and ballack is nearly 32

I hoping/guessing he meant that with Gerrard being pushed up behind Torres, that there is only Mascherano and Alonso as proven CM then. If either gets injured it means bringing Gerrard back from the front, or playing an improven player i.e Lucas or Plessis.

hunter164

Just looking at the fellas who are out of contract at the end of the season and if he's looking for a back-up midfielder as such he could sign Dacourt. He's by no means great but he's handy back-up in case of injury or anything.

Chardee MacDennis

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

I hoping/guessing he meant that with Gerrard being pushed up behind Torres, that there is only Mascherano and Alonso as proven CM then. If either gets injured it means bringing Gerrard back from the front, or playing an improven player i.e Lucas or Plessis.

and round and round we go.....

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Alonso was poor this season by his standards and looks like he could be off.

Now this ****e really does piss me off.

Boggles, you are a smart enough bloke, and you spend a lot of time, online so ignorance is not excuse.

You are well aware that;

1: Rafa has said Alonso will not be leaving, that he is interested in Barry to improve our options in the centre and provide cover for the left side, not as a replacement for anyone.

and

2: Alonso has said on numerous occassions, this week alone, that he is happy at Liverpool and does not want to leave.

So how on gods earth does it look like he could be off?

the only reason he could be off is if Rafa gets an offer he deems too good to turn down. Cant see that happening.

Mr Alan

Maloudas agent says no....

http://sport.setanta.com/en/Sport/News/Football/2008/05/15/Prem-Maloudas-agent-exclusive-on-Liverpool/

also....

we've lined up our new back up keeper.....





about ****ing time you did some work Rick!

spockety

Mr Alan wrote: »

Now this ****e really does piss me off.

Boggles, you are a smart enough bloke, and you spend a lot of time, online so ignorance is not excuse.

Don't bite.

Remember those wolves in sheeps clothing I posted about a few pages back.......

el rabitos

Mr Alan wrote: »

we signed lehmann?

mike65

Boggles will you gen up before spouting?

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12193_3569285,00.html

"There has been no movement from Real Madrid, whether official or otherwise. At the moment I am with Liverpool, I have a contract with Liverpool and I want to be at Liverpool.

"The people who write these things have clearly not done very rigorous research," he adds, with an arched eyebrow.

Mike.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, you are a smart enough bloke,

Thank you, that will be my new sig.

“I think I will be here next season even if Barry comes,” said Alonso. “He would bring good competition and he would be more than welcome. He can play different positions and if he plays in midfield then I could play with him. I have no problem with that.
“At the moment I feel I could stay here for many years. I have been here for four seasons already; why not seven or eight?
“As long as I am performing well and the club wants me to stay then I will.”


I don't know Mr.Alan there not the words of a man who knows what he is doing next season.

Mr Alan wrote: »

2: Alonso has said on numerous occassions, this week alone, that he is happy at Liverpool and does not want to leave.

This season Internationally he has been hardly involved with Spain, A move to Madrid would argueably improve his international selection.

Mr Alan wrote: »

So how on gods earth does it look like he could be off?
the only reason he could be off is if Rafa gets an offer he deems too good to turn down. Cant see that happening.

If Madrid do come calling it usually is with silly money, I agree that Rafa can't be blamed for turning down good money for a player who was poor by his standards all season.



Then again it could be all tabloid shíte.

Tusky

Chelsea to bid 1 billion for Torres ?

http://www.soccervoice.com/n080513.htm

bahahahaha

kaimera

1 billion yen?

zing

Times reporting that Pompey are talking to LFC atm about signing Crouchy. A lot of us probably expected to see such a story at some stage this summer

Boggles

Crouch and Defoe, not a bad partnership.

dc69

Crouch will have the last laugh when pompey pip us to 4th next year:(

IrishMike

dc69 wrote: »

Crouch will have the last laugh when pompey pip us to 4th next year:(

Down with that sort of thing

joker77

Link

Portsmouth were holding talks with Liverpool last night about re-signing Peter Crouch, who left Fratton Park six years ago.

Manager Harry Redknapp has asked the board for funds to bring in several players in a determined attempt to build on this season's eighth-place finish in the Premier League and their appearance in the FA Cup final against Cardiff City tomorrow.

Redknapp wants a target man to partner Jermain Defoe next season and believes that Liverpool will sell Crouch this summer as he enters the final year of his contract.

Liverpool's £10m valuation has been a stumbling block. to the move

gucci

Tusky wrote: »

Chelsea to bid 1 billion for Torres ?

http://www.soccervoice.com/n080513.htm

bahahahaha

In fairness its just as accurate and believable as the sun!

zing

Sammy Lee gets the gig - to be formally announced later today

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=sammy-lee-returns-to-liverpool-as-assistant-manager%26method=full%26objectid=20920358%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

stick-dan

gucci wrote: »

In fairness its just as accurate and believable as the sun!

+1

As much as some of us here value fernando and by no strtch of the imagination some of us would value him at 1 billion there is no way in hell a proposed transfer of 50million for el nino would suddenly rocket to 1 billion. Another stupid tabloid heading.pfffftt

ibh

Read this morning that Liverpool's valuation of Crouch (10-15m) would be a stumbling block for Portsmouth. FFS they got about 5m for him in '02. Now he is a far more complete player, granted he is older but he is an England international now. WTF are they expecting to pay for him?? I think 10m is undervaluing him. Would be pleased to shift him for about 12-13m and if nobody wants to pay it, then keep him.

zing

iirc Crouch only has a year left to run on his contract which will seriously affect what sort of fee we get for him - just look at what we got for Owen who also only had a year left at the time. 10m is probably fair enough given his contract situation.

mike65

'arry had been after him since he signed!

Mike.

evil_seed

Welcome back Sammy :D

GBX

Sammy should fit in nicely with his general football experience, his past at the club and being fairly handy at spanish.

Good to see him given another chance at the game after his bolton experience.