Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Mr Alan

A draw at portsmouth was an improvement on last seasons result (and last seasons champions result). We were ok in that match.

Wigan - we were average-maybe i'm being a bit generous but i just refuse to become bitter and a fickle clown who calls for a managers head, or slates all our players after a one loss.

You on the other hand are obviously of that breed of fan. fair enough.

And i am single by the way, although i'm REAAAAAAAALLLLYYYYYYYY dont see the relevence of that to this conversation?

Guy:Incognito

millersangel wrote:

You on the other hand are obviously of that breed of fan. fair enough.

Not at all, I'm just not an appologist for **** football. We'll get away with it for a few games (it could be argued we have gotten away with it so far) but we will start losign games soon.

Mr Alan

Ste:that was directed at Pighead, not you.

Can we try and keep in mind too that we are missing Agger and Alonso, both of whom would've made a massive difference to the last few games.

Guy:Incognito

millersangel wrote:

Ste:that was directed at Pighead, not you.
.

Ah, right you are so.:)

HashSlinging

Back into your box SKELLY,

Guy:Incognito

Everything will be ok when Harry gets back.

Dub13

The spurs game is going to be very interesting.

Guy:Incognito

Dub13 wrote:

The spurs game is going to be very interesting.

I'd imagine we'll see sissoko get rewarded with a start. :rolleyes:

Torres will probably get left at Melwood too.

Tusky

A good performance and a win against Spurs at the weekend will put us right back on track. The 4 remaining group games of the champions league are very winnable. Chin up!

Guy:Incognito

Hopefully this next International break will reverse whatever witchcraft the last one put on us.

HashSlinging

Millers dont feed the troll, I dont think we'll be waiting 26 years to win the league even if we dont win it this year.

Dub13

We certainly will not be qualifying with one game in hand as the plan was.

Guy:Incognito

On a happier note, did anyone see McAteer on Soccer Am on sat? How does that man remember to breath?

Dub13

Stekelly wrote:

On a happier note, id anyone see McAteer on Soccer Am on sat? How does that man remember to breath?

We had him over for a gig last Thursday,he is good laugh and likes a drink

spockety

Archimedes wrote:

People can recognise championship winning form in the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd because theyve seen these teams on form that has won them Championships recently.

I would have thought that was self explantory.

Not really, given that I said that it is "finally" happening at Liverpool. Would seem to indicate I'm talking about this season. It's pretty obvious to anyone who can read that Liverpool haven't won the League in a while, and that is in no small part down to the fact that when they've played rubbish they've generally lost, which other teams around them were able to play rubbish and still pull out results.

Liverpool have 15 points from 7, and have only shipped 2 goals, both penalties. It's generally accepted that we played rubbish in 3 of those games.

I'll take that, thanks.

HashSlinging

Razor eh bleedin legend.funnh guy to. Them two still have the skills, and McAteer looks like he still should be playing.

Guy:Incognito

HashSlinging wrote:

Razor eh bleedin legend.funnh guy to. Them two still have the skills, and McAteer looks like he still should be playing.

Razor looks like he just rolled out of the pub.

Then again, he looked like that most of the time when he was playing too.

Dub13

You should here some of the story's the lads tell at these Q & A gigs.....top quality,they let themselves go a bit ofter a few beers.

Mr Alan

Dub13: meant to say it to ya, fair play for that night last week with the lads, great crack altogether, i was off the drink though which was a bit of a pain, but some of the stories were great!

which bloke were you? the host singing YNWA?

Dub13

millersangel wrote:

Dub13: meant to say it to ya, fair play for that night last week with the lads, great crack altogether, i was off the drink though which was a bit of a pain, but some of the stories were great!

which bloke were you? the host singing YNWA?

I am glad you had had a good time,they lads were great crack.We are working on a big one for December so keep your ear to the ground.

I was at the door for while at the start of the night but then went inside after the lads come to enjoy the night,good looking bloke one of the few not in a Liverpool top on the night.

Mr Alan

**** i thought i was the only good looking bloke there not in a liverpool top

PHB

Poor result, poor performance, but it ain't the end of the world, assuming Rafa learns from it.

Liverpool should still do enough to quality, although they will have a fight in their hands to get 1st place. It's now technically out of their hands to get 1st place, so they have to get some luck, although I wouldn't think Marseille would beat Porto so they could still well do it.

As for the whole performances thing, I don't think Liverpool has played well since Derby (Bar the Reading game)
That means in the last 6 games, 5 of them have been poor. That's 3 draws, 2 wins, and a loss.
United/Chelsea in the past have played poorly and won 1-0. When you do that week in week out, that's championship form. When you play badly and win the game 1-0, but the following week play badly and lose, and the previous weeks draw twice, that's not championship form, that's getting a bit of luck in one game.

Liverpool for me are still showing the same basic flaw they've had since Rafa got to Liverpool.
IMO, Rafa could win any match, any one off match. If you wanted one manager for one match, Rafa has no real equal imo. That's why Liverpool are so good in cups. He picks the best team, they do their jobs, and it's done. Coupled with this, his players seem to be able to win any big game. Gerrard steps up to the plate time and time again. This sort of team is gona win you cups.

However, Rafa and his team can't seem to win leagues. It's cause the league isn't one game at a time, it's the whole thing. You have to be consistantly worked up for it. Rafa seems to approach every game individually, which is good, but at the same time, seems to miss the bigger picture. Maybe Torres not playing against Portsmouth means he will be able to last towards the end of the season. But maybe, maybe, beating Brum like they beat Derby would have made the following game against Portsmouth a lot easier. When a team gets a run going, games become easier. Rafa doesn't seem to think like this, or else doesn't accept it as an approach.
Until Rafa gets this idea, he is never going to win the league. You don't have to put your best team out week in week out, infact if you do that, you'll be very unlikely to win the league. However, you have to know the rights times to rotate, and so far this season, he's been misfiring. I'm not gona pretend I could do a better job, but Fergie and Wenger seem to be able to.

Also, i'm still of the opinion that Liverpools team isn't good enough in some key areas (CB, Defensive utility man, RW, LW, Striker,), but that's a whole other kettle of fish

spockety

PHB wrote:

However, Rafa and his team can't seem to win leagues.

I respect your post, it's obviously better thought out than a lot of people come in here with.. however...(!)

Rafa can win leagues using his ideas.. he has shown this in Spain by winning two league titles against all the odds.

He has also given Liverpool their highest points tally at 82, which most years would be good enough to win the league.

I think it's far too early in the season to judge the league campaign. Remember how hilarious it was only a few weeks ago to hear John Terry dismiss United because they had falled behind by 5 points? lol. Christ.

Mr Alan

PHB:
a lot of your points are good, but Rafa has won leagues in the past.
The simple fact is that the team Rafa inherited was not good enough to win a league, over the last couple of years the team has improved-its now at a point where we MAY be strong enough to win a league (no way to say for sure unless we win one )
Rafa is most certainly on the right path, and i have no doubt that he is the man to bring the title back to Anfield. Maybe this year, maybe next. But he is the man to do it.
At the moment we have the best goalie in the league imo. defensively we are as good as anyone, in fact probably better. We have a VERY strong CM. Babel/Kewell/Riise....and Pennant/Yossi may not be the strongest in the league, but it is very good and an improvement on previous years (if they play to their ability), up front again i think we are strong as anyone, Torres is world class. Kuyt is so full of energy as well as displaying great touches and finishes when he gets around the box, Voronin seems much the same, and Crouch as a fourth choice is excellent and is such a strong option to use at times.

CB cover we are weak. but apart from that, i am still firmly of the belief that we will be competing for the league right until the end this year.

Ps...your point about league winning form? Liverpool remain unbeaten in the league. Enough said, massive improvement on previous seasons which is wat we need.

---

also in response to the scaremongerers and doomsday heads here, i've lifted this from another site, its spot on in my opinion:

Question:So are you saying that people cant have genuine concerns about us at the minute or about benitez?


Answer: Of course you can mate, but try and have perspective too.

It's the first competitive game we've lost this season, with the first goal we've conceded from open play.

We're still unbeaten in the League, which as far as I know (and according to almost everyone on various websites) is meant to be our priority, is it not?

I don't like giving any website particular abuse, but on RAWK right now, it seems like the people on there are about to commit mass suicide. Serious, serious over-reaction, with the usual suspects having the opportunity to fulfil their agendas on the back of one defeat.

Yeah, that's right - one defeat.

Hardly the end of the world, in my humble opinion.

Rafa's got it right before, and he will again - of that I've no doubt, but if some of the ****e I've read tonight starts spreading and becoming a permanent part of how we view Rafa, then I think he'll walk.

Some of the comments I've read on other sites are absolutely outrageous, and totally disrespectful towards a man who has made us a genuine top team again.

Stky10

PHB wrote:

Also, i'm still of the opinion that Liverpools team isn't good enough in some key areas (CB, Defensive utility man, RW, LW, Striker,), but that's a whole other kettle of fish

Thats the basic truth behind it really. Decisions made during the summer re transfers coming back to haunt us. Hyppia has done a decent job since he's come in, but he can't be expected to play every game until Agger comes back fit and a younger backup should have been found. Pennant I just don't see in any league winning team, he's got the football intelligence of Cisse, and his temperment is pretty rubbish. Crouch is patently unhappy, and needs to be shipped out pronto for a goal scoring alternative (Swap with Newkie for Martins possibly?). Even Yossi, despite the goal he scored against Wigan, I just don't see as a player we should be signing (from what we can tell, none of the other "big" teams considered him).

Roll back a few years ago under Houllier when Valencia (with Benitez) rolled us over and showed us how to play. They were a great footballing team that put teams to the sword via their passing and movement. Three and a bit years on with Liverpool under Rafa and we're still playing caveman football whereas even Man City with Svennis (who we all took for a fool) after two months are playing better stuff than us. Yeah by the end of the season they'll have fallen back because they don't have any strength in depth, but the quality and style of some of their football is something we should be aiming for.

Yeah its only one game, but the underlying trend isn't good, and something needs to be done to get them out of the this bad form. As well as that though the basic style of how we play needs to be addressed and altered.

Xavi6

Have a go at this 'pool fans and test your memory....

http://staging1.football365.com/fun/games/missingmen/0,21276,13272,00.html

I got 9 out of 11. Not bad for a City fan!

RE*AC*TOR

Desperately bad performance.

Sissoko's ball control and passing has always been a liability, and eventually it was going to be a costly liability.

However, that mistake aside, Marseille still deserved the game, and perhaps it is better ot take the defeat at this stage, rather than a draw that might have papered over the cracks.

The relatively meaningless Carling Cup game aside, Liverpool have not been the same since either (a) the international break, or (b) the leaving of Pako Ayesteran.

Its starting to get a bit worrying.

whatawaster

That was easily the worst performance I can remember from liverpool (although i'm sure we played worse under Houllier).

Apart from Reina, nobody else finished the game with any credit. Leto is not good enough, simple as that, and I don't think he ever will be. His technique is average and he can't beat players. I'm starting to wish we'd cashed in on Momo in the summer. His price must have halved last night alone. I mean, he never could pass but last night was exceptionally bad. His name should immediately removed from that midfielder song. Gerrard was just not interested. His attitude was all wrong (case in point: near the end when he scuffed a shot/cross, and it stayed in play, but he turned his back and pulled his shirt over his head. I would have dragged him off by his ears). Crouch and Torres didn't function at all, but I suppose that is in part down to lack of any service, frustration and the fact that the midfield were thirty yards away from them most of the game.

I am absolutely amazed Babel a) didn't start, and b) didn't come on for Leto. He hasn't featured in the last three games now, am i the only one who senses something wrong?

Our passing was atrocious last night, but I don't necessarily think that was the problem. Our passing is usually no better than average, and is occassionaly awful, but one thing you can always be sure of from Liverpool is that they will work hard, press up and down the pitch and stop their opponents from playing. None of that last night. Our attitude stank. I cannot believe that at half time Rafa didn't stress the need for us to close down more, and that the players didn't take it on board. Kuyt should also have come on at half time because he presses brilliantly from the front and that sets the tone.

He has been often criticised, and I have often criticised him myself (because I do feel he is too casual on the ball at times) but we really are missing Alonso. Not just for his passing, but the way he slows the game down was really missing last night. Everything was rushed.

I'm very depressed, and more worried about Spurs than I feel I should be. Hopefully Pennant, Babel, Mascherano and Kuyt will come back into the team and get us the three points.

redspider

It was fantastic to hear YNWA being sung last night .....
but unfortunately that was being sung in Glasgow, not in Liverpool!

I definitely am putting a lot of the blame on Rafa's selection:

Reina
Finnan, Carragher, Hyypia, Aurelio (Voronin 70)
Benayoun, Gerrard, Sissoko, Leto (Riise 52)
Torres, Crouch (Kuyt 75)

Subs Not Used: Itandje, Arbeloa, Babel, Mascherano.

Leto was a disasterous selection. This kid has still not proven himself. Sissoko is, as we know, good at breaking down play and 'spoiling' things, so ideal in an AWAY match against a top side when we are seeking a draw, but not a match in which we are seeking a win, as he lacks creative DNA.

Benayoun is too light for my liking and akin to a Garcia or a Zenden. He has his moments, but they are mere moments. He was just not a big enough threat. Crouch is okay when he has supply, from good passers, such as an Alonso, and good wingers. They were not there in this match.

It just didnt click last night. At the back, Hyppia was always a risk and Carra was on alert. I do have to say that Jamie did not have one of his better games. He got caught several times wrongly-guessing the movement of the attacker and resorted to having to foul. He could have been sent-off for those. Its hard to perform faultlessly all the time but he wont be too happy with himself.

Finnan did okay. Riise too when he came on. Aurelio was fine, but he is only just back from injury. Gerrard did well but didnt have much to work with. Its impossible to do one two's with Sissoko! Kuyt did okay as did Voronin, who had to play right midfield.

Torres was just slightly off form but he was and remains Liverpool's best threat. He nearly saved a draw at the end. But Liverpool's pressure came much too late. They went out in this match at the start and played at a canter, rather than blitzing the team from the off. Rafa does not get his players gee'd up to beat teams, it was too lazy and Liverpool paid the price. Marseille created a few chances and deserved their goal, and Reina could do nothing about it.

Liverpool are by no means out of the CL and it is within their own hands, but it makes the task of finishing top in the group much more difficult and a 2nd place beckons.

But Benitez's selections have been costing Liverpool points in the league and now points in the CL. I dont think anyone can be too happy. Sure, people do bring out the mantra, "in Rafa we trust", etc, and state that he know's what he's doing, etc. But I am not 100% behind a lot of the decisions he is making and I think there is a sizeable portion of Liverpool fans who are thinking likewise.

For example, how many of us would have put Leto into the starting 11? Maybe 1% of us, if that? Leto AND Sissoko AND Benayoun .... maybe only 1 person, and that was Rafa!

C'mon Rafa, get it right next time ......

Redspider

sweetie

so will the goatee be gone now? maybe it will be an anti-goliath thing. They might start playing better once he's cleanshaven and they've lost one

Mr Alan

definately get rid of Gerrard before i'd get rid of the goatee

Watever ya do Rafa . . . . KEEP THE GOATEE!

event

why did he spend so much money on babel, only to leave him on the bench and take on voronin and put him on the wing?

some very strange decisions

Dub13

We need a big reaction from the players on Sunday.

~Rebel~

event wrote:

why did he spend so much money on babel, only to leave him on the bench and take on voronin and put him on the wing?

some very strange decisions

I thought voronin did quite well when he came on. he showed a bit of strength winning and keeping the ball while babel would have offered something completely different in pace and directness. I wouldnt have a problem with that sub by rafa. horses for courses. when we were finally pushing on in the last 20, voro had a lot of ball.

Mr Alan

Not sure if there was anything in it, but didnt the lads on RTE say that Babel picked up a knock before the game in the warm up? might explain why he wasn't brought on.

evil_seed

Hurry Back Xabi!!!!

zing

millersangel wrote:

Not sure if there was anything in it, but didnt the lads on RTE say that Babel picked up a knock before the game in the warm up? might explain why he wasn't brought on.

If it was the warm up in the stadium I didn't notice anyone injuring themselves or receiving any sort of medical attention before the game. Was in the stadium good and early last night so saw the whole warmup but obviously I was watching diff areas/groups of players at diff times so could have missed it but would have thought I'd have picked up on someone receiving some physio/attention

astrofool

Stevie Me must have let the G-Unit thing get to him

eirebhoy

Liverpool have had the least amount of shots of all teams in the CL so far, 9. Incredibly they have more yellow cards than any other team even though they committed the least amount of fouls in the competition so far.

Mr Alan

Doesn't suprise me at all

HashSlinging

eirebhoy wrote:

Liverpool have had the least amount of shots of all teams in the CL so far, 9. Incredibly they have more yellow cards than any other team even though they committed the least amount of fouls in the competition so far.

Yeh at least were winning at something.

mike65

I was thinking deeply about this on the way home and arrived at a lame parallel with an orchestra - when an orchestra is assembled to perform a piece they are not familair with they rehearse and do so with the same people playing the same instruments. Sounds obvious does'nt it?

In football the same should follow, you select the players for a postition and then you keep that selection and practice day in day out until all are on the same wavelength and do not need to wonder what any other player is likely to do at any given monmnt.

Pity the tv media are so polite, interviewers should just ask managers who
orchestrate such chaos how players can have faith in a manager who does'nt know his best 11.

Mike.

herbieflowers

I think people are perhaps reading into the rotation thing a little too much, sometimes the team you send out just doesn't perform, who's to say that a full-strength Pool side wouldn't have lost too? Although given the Pool's stuttering form of late it'd make sense to play your best players every game, till some level of consistency and confidence is acquired throughout the squad, then you can tweak and change the side, imo.

ButcherOfNog

In defense of Leto, he's probably in for his reserve team performances, I've caught some bits and pieces of him on LFC TV in the reserves and he was playing a blinder! Big difference between the reserves and first team, but the lad deserved his chance.

Best thing about LFCTV is prolly seeing the reserve and youth team games, nice to see some of the talent thats possibly going to come thru.

We've a nice match on Sunday vs a 5-a-side team, I would expect us to romp home with a good win and get us back on track.

Oh and does anyone here still insist that we should sell Alonso and that Gerrard and Masc are our best midfield pairing?

HashSlinging

I think we're (me included) over reacting about things, lets judge the manager by his result(s) at the end of the season. Realistically we really should be expecting liverpool to be "up there" with the leaders, and not have a deficit of 5 games lost at the end of the season, as was the case last year.

I dont think anyone serious about supporting liverpool was thinking we were going to win the league until we had some good results and the press started, so I think this cooling off period is a reality check for us, I hope the manager/players/staff can take something from these couple of games and put it behind them.

Spurs will be on form on Sunday and well up for the game, I hope we can show the fighting spirit for 90 mins as opposed for 3 minutes last night .

mike65

Clearly in the middle the decision to, a) start Sissoko and b) not sub him was the single greatest failing last night. That must have been his worse ever for us last night. Masch/Gerrard is clearly better while Alonso/Gerrard if they are on form is the best.

Mike.

An Citeog

mike65 wrote:

I was thinking deeply about this on the way home and arrived at a lame parallel with an orchestra - when an orchestra is assembled to perform a piece they are not familair with they rehearse and do so with the same people playing the same instruments. Sounds obvious does'nt it?

In football the same should follow, you select the players for a postition and then you keep that selection and practice day in day out until all are on the same wavelength and do not need to wonder what any other player is likely to do at any given monmnt.

Pity the tv media are so polite, interviewers should just ask managers who
orchestrate such chaos how players can have faith in a manager who does'nt know his best 11.

Mike.

Yeah, but an orchestra doesn't have to play against anyone or deal with the unpredictability involved!

~Rebel~

I agree with Mike on this one.

How can we really expect continuity when each week there are new partnerships needing to be forged with no real notice. In CM, Full back with winger, Strikers, full backs with CBs, wingers with strikers, wingers with CMs etc. For example we had Leto playing with Aurelio for the first time, trying to combine to get the ball to Torres and Crouch who have only partnered each other in short sub appearances and who speak different languages.

These guys all need to know each other and know what to expect so they can make the movements and decisions to give the most effective performance.

IMO we should be starting the season with a fairly clear first 11 and only be making 1 or 2 changes max per game unless forced, for the first 3 or so months. After this time, the 1 or 2 replacements, and those used as subs will have built up an understanding enough that rafa could get away with his more extreme rotation.

KdjaCL

~Rebel~ wrote:

I agree with Mike on this one.

How can we really expect continuity when each week there are new partnerships needing to be forged with no real notice. In CM, Full back with winger, Strikers, full backs with CBs, wingers with strikers, wingers with CMs etc. For example we had Leto playing with Aurelio for the first time, trying to combine to get the ball to Torres and Crouch who have only partnered each other in short sub appearances and who speak different languages.

These guys all need to know each other and know what to expect so they can make the movements and decisions to give the most effective performance.

IMO we should be starting the season with a fairly clear first 11 and only be making 1 or 2 changes max per game unless forced, for the first 3 or so months. After this time, the 1 or 2 replacements, and those used as subs will have built up an understanding enough that rafa could get away with his more extreme rotation.

Maybe they should see each other every day and train with them or something.


kdjac

RE*AC*TOR

KdjaCL wrote:

Maybe they should see each other every day and train with them or something.


kdjac

By jove! I think you've got it!