Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

copacetic

fair enough, didn't notice that.
arsenal are doing the running at the moment, I'm not sure what the point is in talking about how far we are off second place..

mike65

Indeed.

Just saw the highlights which told me nothing apart from the CB problem so brief were they. Except that if you have sight of goal you must shoot, quite why Voronin laid-off to Gerrard is a mystery.

Mike.

astrofool

I said it back before the international break, and it's more relevant now, Liverpool don't have the experience or the bottle to win the league, they're already again in the situation where two teams have to start slipping up (Manu and Arsenal) to be in for a credible title challenge.

How many of Liverpool's current squad have won a league?

~Rebel~

was just thinking, if Crouchy is definately off in January (if he keeps being an asshole about his contract), and we cant get Huntelaar, Anelka could still be a very good option. He's talking up a move to a big club again. He did sign a long term deal, but id be surprised if there are no get out clauses in it as he's always been adament he wanted to play for a big club again.

therecklessone

Story of Tottenham's season so far:

Top 4 goalscoring, bottom 3 defending.

Showed during today's game, Liverpool dominated the 1st half benefiting from Robbo's spill (he handled like a virgin bride handles her husbands flute on their wedding night) and the defence switching off letting Voronin in to finish. Our CBs were like Bambi on Ice at times, both Kaboul and Dawson should have been exposed more often, yet Liverpool seemed to want to walk the ball into the net?

Second half we were much better, and Liverpool did not look very threatening, until the cross and Torres' superb jump and header. I blame our full backs for that, I thought Chimbonda could have done more to pressure the ball on your left and Lee maybe should have stopped the cross when it came in from the right.

His free kicks aside, I thought Gerrard's performance was below the standard I'd expect from a player of his ability. I'd also question your defence for how they handled two route one goals from Keane. Maybe it's time Rafa let Gerrard move on and get to reinvest the transfer fee?

RE*AC*TOR

astrofool wrote:

How many of Liverpool's current squad have won a league?

8

Mascherano has won leagues in Argentina and Brazil. Agger has won in Denmark. Riise won with Monaco. Aurelio has two La Liga's from with Valencia, Sissoko has one from that time. Finnan has won 3 leagues (promotions). Lucas won a couple of lower leagues in Brazil. Benyoun has won with Maccaibi Haifa.

kinaldo

I think Liverpool will be there or thereabouts in May and will probably go the whole season at home unbeaten. Today's point and not losing at Anfield was invaluable from a psychological point of view.

I know they are, but Spurs shouldn't be pushovers either.

~Rebel~

just watched the RTE highlights, from them it looks like Mascherano was the one of the midfield taking a bit of responsibility. From the replays, im not entirely sure Voronins lay off was for Gerrard, it was heading straight for Torres as well who would have had a clean shot on goal. Gerrard should have seen that anyway, and even if not, he shouldn't have shot right at the defender who was already lying on the ground. Gerrard did put through some good passes alright though, and it looks like he's been working hard on his free's.

We looked really good in the first half, particularly Voronin and Torres. In spite of rotation, they look like they're forming a bit of a partnership.

Riise. Stoppit. Just stoppit. You dont have to hammer your crosses every time, and you dont have to shoot whenever you can see the goal.

Chardee MacDennis

rafa was not happy in the interview, very poor defending for both goals.

HashSlinging

astrofool wrote:

I said it back before the international break, and it's more relevant now, Liverpool don't have the experience or the bottle to win the league, they're already again in the situation where two teams have to start slipping up (Manu and Arsenal) to be in for a credible title challenge.

And Man city are where in the league, I think its going to be a very close finish this year.

Liverpool havent lost a game in the prem yet our season hasnt even begun, the fun is in the chase also..plus we are at the right end of the table. unlike spurs, bolton etc.

Jazzy

but hes right surely, as crappy as it is - we are the ones playing catch up. untill we are pushing the top 2, our season is no improvement of last year

machiavellianme

Is this why the defence was asleep yesterday? Particularly Carra?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2007/10/08/sports-stars-turn-out-for-jamie-carragher-s-new-venture-64375-19911832/

All too focussed on opening night at the new restaurant and not bothered about a clean sheet perhaps?

redspider

Like most fans, I'm dissapointed with the result over the weekend. Another 2 pts dropped, and Liverpool were lucky in the end that it wasnt 3 pts dropped.

But Liverpool's problems are there for all to see. Dominance is not producing wins, and it happens time and time again. And the dominance just isnt what it should be at times either. Liverpool were a shade unlucky not to go 2-0 up, and several chances went abegging. One bright spot in this match was that at least we were creating some chances. I liked the displays of Torres and Gerrard.

Also, the Spur's goals were fortunate in the sense that Berbabtov's knock-on's exactly found their man, although Robbie Keane did very well to finish them off. But overall, 2 goals for Spurs was a greater reward than they really deserved.

Was Carra to blame? Hard to say really, as he does this type of covering time and time again, sort of sweeping and it usually works. Could the full-back's have covered back? Again hard to say. I think that Hyppia could have and should have done better with the heading challenges, but I wouldnt blame him 100% for the goals either. Its just one of those things with knock-ons. Spurs could have been at those all day and 10 out of 10 wouldnt have ended up in the back of the net. But that's football.

So, with 8 games gone and most of the other's having played 9, what are things looking like? Well, I think it is probable to say now that Liverpool WONT win the league. I would put that down to Rafa's system, as it is clear that he is not optimising selections for the league, and it doesnt look as if he is going to change. I think Liverpool will be in the top-4 though, but where is anyone's guess at this point in time and will depend on the other teams.

Arsenal have got their act together this season and are winning games. I dont know if they can keep it up with the young players when a blip comes, as it is likely to at some stage.

Man Utd are winning games even when they play bad and would be favourites in my book if they dont have any major injuries, as they do not have depth to replace the likes of Tevez, C.Ronaldo or Rooney.

Chelsea may be fighting with Liverpool for 3rd/4th, as when all their key players are in the team, Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Makelele, Cech, they are a good team, although I think Terry is not playing so well at the moment but his motivation of the team is an important factor and they miss him when he is not there.

el rabitos wrote:

liverpool fans on mass are a patient bunch, but also clever enough to know when someones time is up ...
i think even if we go this season with no silverwear he'll still be given significant backing in the summer. another unsuccessful season after that and i think it would be hard to see him there beyond that.

We are very patient, maybe too patient at times and perhaps that is why we have had the 17 year gap for the league. I think if there is no silverware this year, and there is every chance of that, I would be in two minds about Benitez. Yes, we got the CL in 2005 and made the final in 2007, and won a few cups, but IF the main trophy to go for now is the league, then this season would have been a complete failure on that score.

I think Liverpool owners are in a dillema because they want to do well both in the CL and the League, as both trophies is where the money is at. Publicly people may be saying the league is the priority, but actions speak louder than words and selections have been showing that it isnt. Ironically, the weak selection against Marseille in the CL and that loss has shown that not even in the CL are the stongest teams put out! Its a puzzling situation, where Rafa is not putting out what he thinks is Liverpool's stongest team and Liverpool look like winning neither competition at this stage.

If Liverpool do win the next two league games they will be back on track, but that's an IF. And post international duty, Liverpool in recent years have not done well from what I gather.

Redspider

PHB

Eh, Berbatov didn't just happen to knock the ball on into Keane's path anymore than Finnan just happened to cross the ball exactly where Torres' head was.

Kanney

Lets hope no international injuries. Everton next which we should win, if we take the 3 points from Arsenal in their game, it will turn our season.

redspider

mike65 wrote:

And so Fantasy Rafa comes into existence. There's no other manager who'd be the inspiration for such a site, which says it all.

It does say it all when a betting-promoted site is using Rafa's varying selections as the subject matter.

By the way, I mentioned that 'nobody guessing correctly' would be a likely possibility for the Marseille match, and I didnt even know such a site existed. Unfortunately, I was right:

2070 predictions were made for the Marseille game
Rafa's team: Reina, Carragher, Finnan, Aurelio, Hyypia, Gerrard, Sissoko, Benayoun, Leto, Torres, Crouch
NOBODY guessed the line-up correctly!

Is Rafa living in a 'parallel' universe as some of these selections are mind-boggling ??!?

At least Rafa's selection for the Spurs match was better, as were the predictions inevitably:

3145 predictions were made for the Tottenham game
Rafa's team: Reina, Arbeloa, Carragher, Finnan, Hyypia, Riise, Mascherano, Gerrard, Pennant, Torres, Voronin
34 people guessed the line-up correctly!

The scores so far:
- Aston Villa 11 Aug 2007 - 7/1514
- Toulouse 15 Aug 2007 - 4/1414
- Chelsea 19 Aug 2007 - 266/2276
- Sunderland 25 Aug 2007 - 0/1862
- Toulouse 28 Aug 2007 - 1/1629
- Derby 1 Sep 2007 - 50/2066
- Portsmouth 15 Sep 2007 - 1/1787
- Porto 18 Sep 2007 - 9/2088
- Birmingham 22 Sep 2007 - ?
- Reading 25 Sep 2007 - 4/1495
- Wigan 29 Sep 2007 - ?
- Marseille 3 Oct 2007 - 0/2070
- Spurs 8 Oct 2007 - 34/3145

Total: after 13 games, 396 correct guesses out of 24679

This weeks leaderboard:

Madman - 119 points

Is that username a coincidence????

Redspider

raven136

damn that "madman" rafa,2 champions league finals and one win,an fa cup and still unbeaten in the league.A press who continually look to rotation to balme our poor recent form,maybe the players might look in the mirror.
If we keep this up we might yet drive him away.
Not that he wouldnt have his pick of teams,capello recently described him as europes greatest manager,careful what you wish for and all that

Mr Alan

True, the derby match is gonna be huge, hopefully it goes the right way.

Redspider-seems a bit strange you would write off our chances of being in the title race, but a the same time we are potentially 1 point behind the team you think will win the league?

Winning the league MAY be too much for us at this stage, but as i said before our aim had to be to be in the title race, we very much still are.

It takes time to mould a title winning team, just ask Sir Alex.

PS: i would love to know how many changes Utd and Chelsea are making per game, bet its not a lot less than Rafa, a lot of Rafas changes have been forced on him, or changes that should have been made due to form etc etc, the media just like to spout ****e, Collymore today in the mirror, blaming the fact Rafa never played top level football on the rotation/our current form, then citing Wenger as a genius, that man should not be employed by anyone to give his opinions on anything, he is a nut.

Rotation is just an excuse used by the media to fill inches in papers and stir ****e.

kida

don't know about Arsenal Utd have made 13 changes this season in 9 games of those 7 were injury/suspansion enforced.

machiavellianme

Why do people keep going on about 2 Champions League finals?
We only won one of them. Apart from the extra revenue, we might as well have gone out in the first round and saved ourselves the hardship (and possibly mounted a better PL campaign last year).

Skittlebrau

machiavellianme wrote:

Why do people keep going on about 2 Champions League finals?
We only won one of them. Apart from the extra revenue, we might as well have gone out in the first round and saved ourselves the hardship (and possibly mounted a better PL campaign last year).

eh..because it's the most prestigious football competition in the world where you get to play against the best teams and the best players in the world.

The majority of European clubs hold the Champions League in higher regard than their own domestic league. The reason Liverpool fans don't is because it's so long since we won the domestic league.

To even reach one Champions League final is an impressive feat. To reach 2 in 3 years, winning one is phenomenal. Some of the best managers in the history of the game haven't managed to even get to a final.

redspider

raven136 wrote:

still unbeaten in the league

This mantra is wheeled out far too often (I'm not blaming you raven). It is used by all and sundry, but it is very misleading and not necessarily a good sign when there is a high number of draws.

I want to remind people that since the 1980's its been 3 pts for a win and only 1 pt for a draw, so a draw is in fact two-thirds of a loss and fans, players and managers/coaches need to think in those terms. True, its not the end of the world if you have one or two draws, but Liverpool have drawn 3 at home out of 4 matches, and drawn one away, so 4 draws in total out of 8 matches. That is poor. Better to lose 2 matches than draw 4!

We've dropped 6 pts at home out of 12, and dropped 2 pts away (The away form is fine but the home form isn't). And these were in games at home (Chelsea apart perhaps) in which we should have been securing 3 pts as there will be much tougher games coming up, both home and away.

The challenge of getting 3 pts at Anfield at home versus Spurs is easier than trying to get 3 pts away versus Everton. I cant see Gerrard, Carra or other key players going into that match with a lot of confidence .....

In summary, unbeaten != good

Redspider

Mr Alan

its all doom and gloom with u redspider isnt it!?

DSB

Probably the most realistic Liverpool fan I've seen on this forum tbh.

raven136

just checked the table in todays paper and we have a game in hand over united and city with 2 games against both and still have arsenal in 2 games.Two of our new strikers Voronin(3 league goals) and Torres(7 goals in total,4 in the league)are doing better than expected.
We conceded our first two league goals in early october and are missing our most creative player(alsonso) and first choice centre half with Carra(agger).

redspider is right that its not great but my god people we are in the thick of the title race as of now and will be come may.Is the consensus here that Chelsea are out of it as well and its now a two horse race?Have a little faith

Mr Alan

DSB: Not sure tbh, i think its a slightly morbid view to be taking.

in particular blaming Rafas rotation for it, seems ridiculous to blame that when we have Alonso and Agger injured, both virtually guarunteed starters in their position,Gerrard,Mascherano,Finnan,Sissoko all not playing well at all.

If anything its these players who deserve the stick. They are used to the way Rafa likes to manage a team. The new players who've come in.....Yossi,Voronin,Torres & Arbeloa have been our best performers this season.

Simple fact is any difficulties we've had is due to the players not playing well, everyone is in agreeance that all the teams Rafa has put out at any stage should have won their matches, only reason they didnt is because they played ****e. simple as. The reason they played ****e is not because they are not used to playing together tbh, that is nonsense thing to say imo, they train together 5 days a week, Gerrard,Finnan,Carragher,Alonso,Sissoko are all playing with eachother a few years and have no excuse.

spockety

I don't always agree with everything he says, and he can over-use statistics to mind numbing levels at times, but some of his "let's take stock" articles can be quite good.. this is a good one. Paul Tomkins that is.

As ever, the Reds will emerge from this one. Between January and March 2006 the Reds couldn't buy a goal. Then five flowed against Fulham, as Robbie Fowler broke his duck, and the team never looked back.

Confidence is everything in football; without it good teams can easily look like bad ones. One-nil up, and playing well, Liverpool had chances to get to that comfort zone with a second goal against Spurs. It didn't happen, and then goals conceded at two of the worst times –– immediately before and after half-time –– did to the Reds what it does to any team low on confidence: it killed them in their tracks.

The confidence that began to flow from being 1-0 up was not as powerful as the kind of 'concrete' confidence a team feels when it is regularly winning games. It is far more fragile, like pumice. It took the shellshocked players a while to find some belief again, but by the end they'd earned a deserved draw. It wasn't classic Liverpool, but it was a big improvement on last Wednesday's showing.

Last week, after the Marseilles game, I commented on my own website that Liverpool needed something, from somewhere –– I called it an '*******kos moment'. The kind of goal, or result, that changes a team's fortunes and instils belief.

Sunday's opposition had just had theirs, a few days earlier. And what a difference it made to them. Spurs are now a team starting, somewhat belatedly, to look like a top-five side. Until a week ago, they were closer to relegation fodder, with a squad that cost pretty much the same as Liverpool's.

Spurs were a minute from a famous win at Anfield. This is the same Spurs who were losing 4-1 at home on Monday night, 30 minutes away from total meltdown. Against Villa they got back into the game with a goal, but in truth were going nowhere –– before being gifted a penalty by a Marlon Harewood's clumsy 'forward's challenge. Suddenly they were a goal away from a 4-4 draw.

They achieved it with an injury-time equaliser, which probably felt like a winning goal. Spurs, so talented a team but having such an utterly abject season, suddenly had their *******kos moment. They arrived at Anfield buoyed.

Could Torres' header be Liverpool's *******kos moment? Perhaps the comeback wasn't dramatic enough for it to give that 'miracle' feeling, but it could still prove a turning point in the Reds' fortunes. After all, the early season confidence was made possible by Gerrard's dramatic goal at Villa on the opening day.

If Liverpool aren't winning enough games right now, at least this goal showed a desire not to lose them. Drawing too many matches can be a problem in itself, so being unbeaten in the league doesn't paint the rosy picture it otherwise might; but it's still something to cling to, in terms of regaining confidence. It's something to build upon.

But obviously in most sections of the media the problem is being put down to one thing. Much to my chagrin, rotation has become an absolute obsession. I can't recall any other issue relating to the Reds' play causing so much controversy.

It is overshadowing everything, clouding the main issue –– namely that confidence has drained away. Without confidence, it almost doesn't matter who's in the team. When teams lose confidence, every player seems to suffer.

There are probably a number of reasons for it happening, and it's ultimately the manager's job to find some way of reversing it –– although there are no magic cures, as Spurs are finding with the previously reliable Paul Robinson.

In the case of some Liverpool players, perhaps rotation may have had an adverse affect. It's certainly a possibility. But why are some of the usually reliable regulars playing below their high standards, and some of those being most heavily rotated, such as Andrei Voronin, doing extremely well?

The more the debate rages, the more I see a truth: namely, that rotation is only an issue when Liverpool aren't winning. And that, for me, is what makes a lot of the debate a mockery.

Like all ideas in football, rotation isn't 100% perfect, and it does seem that with a bigger squad Benítez is making even more changes than in the past. But I'm sick to death of it being blamed for everything in a massively simplistic manner. As well as rotating, there have been lots of changes forced by injury, and that needs to be taken into account.

I just find it impossible to categorically blame rotation because there's absolutely no way to prove it. When I look at Benítez's team selections in recent weeks, as results have faltered, I actually see evidence that suggests rotation isn't the problem is being made out to be.

Take the defence, who are now making mistakes. Is that down to rotation?

Well, the defence were regularly keeping clean sheets when Benítez was rotating the back four, and alternating between centre-backs. Of late, he hasn't altered his central pairing because of Daniel Agger's absence with a broken foot. And Arbeloa and Finnan, who played against Spurs, are his two main choices at full-back (although Aurelio, back from long-term injury, was missing because of another injury).

So, despite more consistent selections at the back, the defending hasn't been as good.

Against Spurs, the central defenders were at fault on both goals, and yet no-one can tell me these two don't have a finely-developed understanding after playing together in the same back line for almost a decade, as well as having been the regular partnership at the heart of the defence between 2004 and 2006. So it's not like rotation early in the season was denying them a chance to build up understanding and consistency.

Is rotation to blame for Steve Finnan also not being at his best? After all, he's started ten of the 12 games. This supremely consistent full-back has had a very patchy start to the season by his standards. Perhaps, like Carragher, he was due a blip. But again, in such a well-drilled and, in recent years, almost telepathic unit with Carragher and Hyypia, the defending has suddenly gone awry. And I don't see how rotation can be blamed.

Further forward, Steven Gerrard has been deployed only in the centre of midfield, where everyone said last season that he simply had to play. He hasn't been switched around, in the manner that is supposed to disrupt his game, and he's now starting pretty much every match he's fit for. But like Carragher with his damaged ribs and lung in August, Gerrard's form has dipped since injury.

You could argue that Gerrard's mix of midfield partners hasn't helped him form a consistent partnership, but it's not like he's been paired with anyone new to the club whose game he doesn't understand. Xabi Alonso's absence is being felt, but Gerrard is capable of so much more than his current form –– he is capable of looking world-class even if I was lumbering around alongside him.

His body language tells us he knows he's not in the best form. But whatever the reason, I don't see much evidence to suggest it's down to rotation. He was much better in the first half against Spurs, but once the team went behind his confidence seemed to drain and his influence waned.

It's the same when it comes to the strikers, with Benítez castigated for constantly rotating his his four forwards.

Don't get me wrong –– I do think it can be hard at times for individual strikers to find their rhythm when being rotated. But if they are playing one of Liverpool's (usual) two games a week, then they should be able to give their all in the knowledge they need to keep nothing in reserve.

But what I don't get –– if rotation is so bad for them –– is how the four strikers have 15 goals between them in all competitions already this season. By contrast, Tevez, Rooney and Saha have just six, while Chelsea's forwards have seven. Liverpool's four strikers have scored the same as free-scoring Arsenal's three forwards.

There's always a controversy about which two strikers Benítez omits, but he can't play them all, and on the whole he has got a lot from whichever two who have played. Andrei Voronin has four goals, but has been far from a regular.

And are players who stay in any side all season long automatically immune from losing their form? Of course not.

While being on the bench or omitted from the 16 can affect confidence, it's better than being totally frozen out as two first-choice strikers play every single game. With Benítez, performing well doesn't guarantee you'll play the next game, but it does mean you'll play again soon. Only playing poorly will limit your chances, but even then, you're still in the frame.

I believe that on some level, all fans resent rotation, and it's perfectly natural. We do not know where we stand in the way we do if there's a set, defined starting XI. So it takes a bit more patience to bear with what is, by its very definition, a more complex way of working. I just loathe seeing it blamed again and again, given that all teams have difficult patches and lose confidence.

Make no mistake –– it's not been a good week. But the Reds are still 4th with a game in hand on the Manchester clubs, and unbeaten in the league. That may be of little comfort to some, but it's a reality that tells us the situation is far from critical. Of course, a return to winning ways needs to come about sooner rather than later before a gap opens up.

In total contrast to the previous one, I think the international break has come at the right time. It gives the coaching staff a chance to take stock and analyse what's going wrong ahead of a return to league action.

A win at Everton would provide just the kind of confidence boost that can lead to a revival. Liverpool's superb form on the way to the 2001 Treble was kick-started by another '*******kos moment' –– Gary McAllister's 93rd-minute winning goal at Goodison. On such things seasons can turn.

spockety

Eh, we're not allowed to say 0lymp1a ...???

redspider

Mr Alan wrote:

Redspider-seems a bit strange you would write off our chances of being in the title race, but a the same time we are potentially 1 point behind the team you think will win the league? Winning the league MAY be too much for us at this stage, but as i said before our aim had to be to be in the title race, we very much still are.

Well, it could be a tad early, but I think there are too many signs there, a track record with Rafa over previous seasons, etc. I would be more than glad to be wrong! I think we will be in the title race, but indications are even at the 8 game stage that we wont win it.

raven> redspider is right that its not great but my god people we are in the thick of the title race as of now and will be come may.Is the consensus here that Chelsea are out of it as well and its now a two horse race? Have a little faith

We are just a bit off the pace at the moment, that's true, and it is of course recoverable, but it would take a change in what has been going on so far. All I'm saying is that at this early stage, it doesnt take a hell of a lot of sticking a neck out to call that Liverpool wont win it. Its not all doom and gloom I agree, and it shouldnt be. But its not rosy either. The unbeaten 3 draws at home are costly.

I usually compare the teams at the 10 game stage (approx quarter) before attempting to call it, so we can all do that in a few weeks.

Redspider

raven136

redspider wrote:

Well, it could be a tad early, but I think there are too many signs there, a track record with Rafa over previous seasons, etc. I would be more than glad to be wrong! I think we will be in the title race, but indications are even at the 8 game stage that we wont win it.

raven> redspider is right that its not great but my god people we are in the thick of the title race as of now and will be come may.Is the consensus here that Chelsea are out of it as well and its now a two horse race? Have a little faith

We are just a bit off the pace at the moment, that's true, and it is of course recoverable, but it would take a change in what has been going on so far. All I'm saying is that at this early stage, it doesnt take a hell of a lot of sticking a neck out to call that Liverpool wont win it. Its not all doom and gloom I agree, and it shouldnt be. But its not rosy either. The unbeaten 3 draws at home are costly.

I usually compare the teams at the 10 game stage (approx quarter) before attempting to call it, so we can all do that in a few weeks.

Redspider

a win against united and/or arsenal will change everything.one thing we can surley agree on is the coverage of rafa is getting ridicuolus in particular by sky sports.thats my tuppence worth

yom 1

Mr Alan wrote:

in particular blaming Rafas rotation for it, seems ridiculous ......

If anything its these players who deserve the stick. They are used to the way Rafa likes to manage a team. The new players who've come in.....Yossi,Voronin,Torres & Arbeloa have been our best performers this season.

Simple fact is any difficulties we've had is due to the players not playing well, everyone is in agreeance that all the teams Rafa has put out at any stage should have won their matches, only reason they didnt is because they played ****e. simple as.

Mr Alan speaks alot of truth. Every team that has been put out should have been able to win the game where points have been dropped.

Gerrards preformances have slumped since he broke his foot/beckham bone. He started the season in excellant form but hasnt regained it since. We have also been missing Carragher,Hyypia,Alonso and Agger with broken bones. Thats 4 almost guaranteed starters and first choice cover at centre back who have broken bones in the first 8 games of the season. We are in a little but of a slump but all this bull**** about Rafa's rotations is really starting to piss me off. Stupid buzzword journalists doing anythin to fill a few inches. And whats almost worse is the reaction to some pool fans to the last few games reading/listening to these stupid buzzword journalists. Dont get me wrong I havent been happy with the preformances, but we havent lost in the league yet. The loss to marseille in possibly our worst preformance in many years, the players just didnt turn up, but this preformance will be the exception rather than the rule. To start calling or even murmuring for Rafa's head is just ridiculous. And this is coming from the same fans who thought the league was in the bag after the Derby game.:rolleyes:

Lets just hope this "international break hoodoo" lifts in time for the everton game.:D

Mr Alan

excellent article, pretty much wat i've been trying to say, unfortunately-i could never articulate it that well!

redspider

raven136 wrote:

one thing we can surely agree on is the coverage of rafa is getting ridicuolus in particular by sky sports.

Agreed, its an easy buzzphrase for the media to pick up on and they go on about it relentlessly until everyone is picking at it.

I think most observers would agree that at this level it is important to change some players from one match to the next, and it is true that if a player had to play 70 games or so, they could easily burn out or pick-up an injury before the end of the season. The only thing is which players to change and how many.

The question many are raising is whether leaving better players on the bench (such as Torres, Mascherano, etc) is a good thing or not. So far, such decisions have not gone Rafa's way this season, hence the major focus.

As for the Spurs match, I do agree with Paul Tomkins in tems of rotation not being the factor, as that was more or less nearly the strongest team available anyway (although many 'armchair selectors' would have preferred Kuyt to Voronin).

All we can do is wait to see what happens next time out .....

redspider

event

redspider wrote:

Also, the Spur's goals were fortunate in the sense that Berbabtov's knock-on's exactly found their man, although Robbie Keane did very well to finish them off. But overall, 2 goals for Spurs was a greater reward than they really deserved.

agree with most of you point except that

thats like saying liverpools equalizer was fortunate in the sense that it went exactly into the net?

its hardly fortunate if you mean to do it?

astrofool

yom 1 wrote:

Mr Alan speaks alot of truth. Every team that has been put out should have been able to win the game where points have been dropped.

Gerrards preformances have slumped since he broke his foot/beckham bone. He started the season in excellant form but hasnt regained it since. We have also been missing Carragher,Hyypia,Alonso and Agger with broken bones. Thats 4 almost guaranteed starters and first choice cover at centre back who have broken bones in the first 8 games of the season. We are in a little but of a slump but all this bull**** about Rafa's rotations is really starting to piss me off. Stupid buzzword journalists doing anythin to fill a few inches. And whats almost worse is the reaction to some pool fans to the last few games reading/listening to these stupid buzzword journalists. Dont get me wrong I havent been happy with the preformances, but we havent lost in the league yet. The loss to marseille in possibly our worst preformance in many years, the players just didnt turn up, but this preformance will be the exception rather than the rule. To start calling or even murmuring for Rafa's head is just ridiculous. And this is coming from the same fans who thought the league was in the bag after the Derby game.:rolleyes:

Lets just hope this "international break hoodoo" lifts in time for the everton game.:D

Is this not the same excuse that is trotted out by the FAI, rather than blaming Staunton for picking the wrong players in the wrong formation? At least Staunton has the excuse that he can't buy players in like Rafa does.

Tusky

Some Liverpool fans need to get a grip. Ive been really disappointed with Liverpools performances and results but we are certainly not out of the title race. If we win our game in hand we are 1 point behind utd. As it stands we are above Chelsea with a game in hand. We still have to play the league leaders for gods sake!

Also, in 05/06 season when we started the league in terrible form we finished on a total of 82 points which was record for the club. After 8 games we had 10 or 11 points. We have 16 at the moment.

We are 4th in the league, unbeaten and one of our strikers is joint top scorer in all competitions, Torres (7).

All is not lost!

PHB

Blaming injuries is a bit silly, especially when you consider the amount of injuries that Chelsea and United have had.

It's funny how things go, everybody was pissed off after the Spurs game, then some people went too far, with stuff like Rafa should go now, now people are going back to defending the team and Rafa and attacking the media.

Liverpool have been poor, and it's shown that Rafa still hasn't mastered the league. That said, he's got 2 weeks to reflect on it, then theres a big three games coming up. I think this probably suits Liverpool. Big games get the best out of them normally. 7 points from 9 in the next three games would put them right up there. Also if people are thinking of already writing off Chelsea they are being very silly.

Tusky

PHB wrote:

Blaming injuries is a bit silly, especially when you consider the amount of injuries that Chelsea and United have had.

It's funny how things go, everybody was pissed off after the Spurs game, then some people went too far, with stuff like Rafa should go now, now people are going back to defending the team and Rafa and attacking the media.

Liverpool have been poor, and it's shown that Rafa still hasn't mastered the league. That said, he's got 2 weeks to reflect on it, then theres a big three games coming up. I think this probably suits Liverpool. Big games get the best out of them normally. 7 points from 9 in the next three games would put them right up there. Also if people are thinking of already writing off Chelsea they are being very silly.

I agree...its mental. People were writing off utd a few weeks ago. If Liverpool, Utd, Spurs & Chelsea can go through slumps, so can Arsenal and we can be fairly sure Man City wont keep up their form.

Also, how many players do the gunners lose to the African cup ? 7 or 8 ?

Daemonic

And we lose Sissoko at the same time ...ehh I mean ...no wait was right the first time

mike65

Someone with even less of a life than any of us has been doing the maths and says Rafa has made 64 changes so far this season. (sauce - RedandWhiteKop thread which I can't find right now!)

As for the goals conceeded yesterday - its simple Hyypia was where Carra should have been, Sami has been great but is completly lacking a fleet foot.
Rafa pissing about with the Heinze transfer has come back to haunt us.

Mike.

DSB

yom 1 wrote:

Mr Alan speaks alot of truth. Every team that has been put out should have been able to win the game where points have been dropped.

But like be realistic, by this logic Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea would also be winning every game every week. Its upto the manager and the players to ensure they do. And whoever it was, harping on about an unbeaten record, it really matters nothing. In the end sides will be judged on the amount of points they have, not how many games they've lost.

astrofool

Or if Redspider has his way, extra time super multiball challenge bonus point-o-rama.

Mr Alan

astrofool wrote:

Or if Redspider has his way, extra time super multiball challenge bonus point-o-rama.

ha ha ha ha ha ha

Peyton Manning

Found this on Yahoo Sport, some of you playing Fantasy Rafa take note, its his formula he uses for selection

Si - (K+6) x Et(-G) = PiR²/12.45 + (Vp-J) B/A³

Si = Ability to speak Spanish

K = Kiss-and-tell expose in tabloids

6 = Player over six feet in height

E = Good engine

t = Solid performance in training

-G = Inverse of goals scored in last game

Pi = Carrying excess weight

R = Unprovoked rant at Premier League officials

12.45 = Saturday lunchtime kick-off

Vp = Confluence of Venus and Pluto in Capricorn

5I = Karaoke/Golf club incident

B = Goatee beard

A = Player is Alvaro Arbeloa

---

Good for a giggle

yom 1

DSB wrote:

But like be realistic, by this logic Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea would also be winning every game every week.

And so came about the existance of THE BIG FOUR!

Are you telling me that Man Utd, Arsenal Chelsea and Liverpool dont go into every game expecting to win with the exception of playing against each other and maybe the likes of spurs and everton.

My point, well more of an angry rant really, was that liverpool's slump is down to the players underpreforming through a lack of confidence eg sissoko or due to just returning from injurys like gerrard and carragher rather than the sweeping statements of Rafa's rotations. Its the buzzword that pisses me off. Its like when the media blame the very few goals we concede from set pieces on Rafa's zonal marking. But what about all the other games where we dont concede?

redspider

astrofool wrote:

Or if Redspider has his way, extra time super multiball challenge bonus point-o-rama.

I couldnt have said it better myself ;-)

(Mind you, I've never been a proposer of multi-ball!)

DSB

yom 1 wrote:

And so came about the existance of THE BIG FOUR!

Are you telling me that Man Utd, Arsenal Chelsea and Liverpool dont go into every game expecting to win with the exception of playing against each other and maybe the likes of spurs and everton.

they do. but using the excuse of 'we had the players to beat them' doesnt really cut the mustard.

redspider

Archimedes wrote:

Si - (K+6) x Et(-G) = PiR²/12.45 + (Vp-J) B/A³

And lets not forget this clause:

If Kw >= 25.33% fit THEN PLAY

(where Kw = Kewell)

zing

Kuyt picked up a hamstring injury at the weekend and has had to withdraw from the dutch squad.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2790076,00.html

Hopefully a couple of weeks under the supervision of the physios at Melwood will see him back fit & ready for the derby.

yom 1

DSB wrote:

they do. but using the excuse of 'we had the players to beat them' doesnt really cut the mustard.

What doesnt cut the mustard. The team sent out should have won but didnt. Not because of rafa changing a few players but because the players didnt preform. Hench slump in form. Similar to how united started the season. The players didnt preform, they dropped points in games they should have won.