Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

kida

Regarding Rotation the main difference is as much as he can Ferguson will broadly pick the same team week in week out if they are on a run. Benitez does not do that. Would be interesting to analyse forced vs unforced changes.

In 1 less game (PL only) this season Utd have made 13 changes compared to Liverpools 22. 7 of those 13 were forced by injuries suspensions. That is twice as many(allowing 3 for the game in hand). The Utd stats were majorly skewed last year due to the last 2 games where he fully changed the team vs Chelsea when the league was won.

Lex Luthor

If anyone knows anyone who has any spare ticket/s for this game, please PM me. My postal application went sour due to the UK postal strike so it never made it.
My travel & hotel is already booked & paid for so I'll be going regardless.

Thanks

event

kryogen wrote:

newcastle havent really been a force for a few seasons now anyway, i take your point on board, just wanted to point out that they are not a huge test for a team..

perhaps not in the past, but they are 9th in the league at the minute, just two points behind liverpool

you cant write them off and say they werent a test for the kids

kryogen

event wrote:

perhaps not in the past, but they are 9th in the league at the minute, just two points behind liverpool

you cant write them off and say they werent a test for the kids

the flip side to that is that its been 9 games and they are 9th yes, so is it really time to say they are a force again? its irrelevant anyway, i think the points have been made! on your rotation policy, it does differ greatly from manchester uniteds and to an extent chelsea

if ronaldo, rooney, rio, vidic, if these guys are fit, they generally start

drogba, lampard, terry, essien, they fit they start!

for liverpool, torres seems to be the great shining hope for a striker and since you paid 20 million for him you would think that if he was fit hed start, i havent been watching you guys much, does gerrard get rotated?

Mr Alan

Thats my point in relation to the rotation....

Carragher,Gerrard,Finnan,Agger,even pretty much-Alonso and Torres all guarunteed a start

PHB

VDS, Neville, Rio, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Ronaldo if fit are pretty much defo starters.

spockety

zing wrote:

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2794048,00.html

shame about the piece of crap paper he spoke to.

Just a point on this..

SkySports.com and football365.com ALWAYS say a player "told The S*n", even though they actually told a room full of journalists. Skysports and F365 are owned by the same company who owns The S*n, i.e. they are Murdoch stables.

So no, Mascherano did NOT speak directly to The S*n in some sort of exclusive, and all new players are briefed on the situation when they join the club.

kida

Mr Alan wrote:

Thats my point in relation to the rotation....

Carragher,Gerrard,Finnan,Agger,even pretty much-Alonso and Torres all guarunteed a start

Finnan doesn't any always start anymore
Alonso and Masherano are rotated
Carragher and Agger are only rotated becuase there is no-one else decent to play there.
Torres has been rotated maybe not as much as every striker but still has been.

Reina,Gerrard and Carragher are the only ones

Mr Alan

bull****.

Reina,Arbeloa,Finnan,Carragher,Agger,Gerrard,Pennant,Torres will all start if fully fit i reckon.

edit: and if on form, eg Yossi in for Pennant

kida

Mr Alan wrote:

bull****.

Reina,Arbeloa,Finnan,Carragher,Agger,Gerrard,Pennant,Torres will all start if fully fit i reckon.

edit: and if on form, eg Yossi in for Pennant

Shoudln't that read "should" - Benitez by his selections this season has a different opinion on it

Mr Alan

Any omissions this year have had a pretty valid reason as far as i'm concerned.

PiE

Hi.

Vokes

Hi.


Ooooohh, mulit-quote - we're gonna have some fun with that

PHB

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/10/11/time_for_benitez_to_give_gerra.html

Interesting read on Gerrards role in the team

Kanney

Liverpool V Man U, reserves tonight on LFC TV, wont be around but Leto and Lucas Leiva starting.

mike65

The whole thing about Gerrard is that if he's in form it does'nt matter where you put him, but if he's not at the races he's liability no matter where you put him. And someone can do the job better - Masch in the middle or Pennant/Yossi wide right.

Mike.

Duiske

Kanney wrote: »

Liverpool V Man U, reserves tonight on LFC TV, wont be around but Leto and Lucas Leiva starting.

Anyone know what time this starts ? Not gonna be home till 8.

jesus_thats_gre

PHB wrote: »

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/10/11/time_for_benitez_to_give_gerra.html

Interesting read on Gerrards role in the team

Interesting article. Gerard seems to be having the same effect that Henry had on Arsenal. There is no doubt that he is an amazing talent but it is possible that the everything surrounding him has become a distraction and is now actually hurting the team.

Regarding the argument of who generally always starts across the back. When everyone is fit, it would be:

---

Reina

---

Finnan---Carra

---

Agger---Riise

Arbeloa is making some headway but the back line tends to stay that way for most matches - especially when you consider the rotation that occurs in other positions.

Realistically, our best team is, or certainly will be by the end of the season:

---

Reina

---

Finnan---Carra

---

Agger---Riise

---

Masch

---

---

Alonso

---

Gerard

---

?----

---

Torress

---

Kuyt

---

That position is the only position that I am not convinced about. Babel will eventually hold the role but he is still too young and raw. Yossi or Pennant would certainly do the job until someone like Mancini is brought in or Babel grows into the role.

Kuyt may be removed depending on who he brings in to replace Crouch - assuming Crouch leaves that is.

Riise will be replaced with someone better within 18 months I feel. Finnan could keep the position but he is fighting an impossible battle with age.



As for the Benitez arguments. Suggestions that he should be sacked or removed are ridiculous. Removing him now would leave the club in a very difficult position and give clubs like Spurs the chance to catch up. A clubs success is built on good management and stability. We have the good manager and stability happens with time.

I agree with rotation in principle. Rafa is pushing his luck with the amount of changes he is making for each game and it is currently working against him. Saying that, as things stand in the league table, there is no discounting us as being contenders. I think we will be in a similar position come Christmas and if we are, it is then that the benefits of rotation now could be exposed. Only time will tell though.

herbieflowers

Rotation is no good though if you're dropping points...and it's not even rotation, basically Pool look distinctly average minus Torres

Lex Luthor

its too early to start criticising Rafa and his rotation policy. Liverpool are not playing to their best but have 16pts from 8 games and for a team supposedly not playing great, its not a bad return.

Liverpool also have typically been poor starters and don't get going until Jan/Feb, so if we are still in touch like we are now come then, I'll be very happy.

herbieflowers

Indeed, I think there's been somewhat of an over-reaction, they're still up there and one team's season isn't decided on a two month's football...

mike65

I see Crouch and Man City have been mentioned in the same article again (Dail Mail) that's third or fourth time in the last 3-4 months.

Mike.

~Rebel~

aye, id say he's off alright. Would like more then 8million, but maybe with only 18months on contract and the player moaning a lot, it might be all we can get...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=486951&in_page_id=1779

Sven Goran Eriksson will be able to buy Peter Crouch for £8million in the January transfer window if he follows up his interest in the Liverpool and England striker.

The Manchester City manager has put Crouch on his list of possibles after learning that he is unhappy at his failure to secure a regular starting place this season and is ready to quit Anfield.

Eriksson needs a centre forward after losing Valeri Bojinov with a serious knee injury and believes 26-year-old Crouch is one of the most proficient strikers in the Premier League.

Crouch cost £7m when he moved to Anfield from Southampton two years ago and City feared that a price tag between £12m-£15m would put them out of the running, but it is understood Liverpool are prepared to take substantially less.

Crouch will only have 18 months left on his contract in January. He has made it clear he will not sign a new deal as long as coach Rafael Benitez prefers Fernando Torres, Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin in his rotation policy.

This season Crouch has made just one League start and his only goal came in the second leg of the Champions League qualifier against Toulouse.

Crouch is aware of City's interest and has told friends he would relish the opportunity to join up with Eriksson, who gave him his England chance and took him to the World Cup Finals in Germany.

Eriksson believes that £8m would represent a good price for Crouch — a player he knows and trusts.

He said: "I've spoken to the people upstairs and the news at the moment is good. I'm told that I can operate in January, so that is good."

HashSlinging

Liverpool 1 nill up on the reserves game.

raven136

anyone catch the game podcast with gulliem balague and gabriela marcotti?some good discussions about rafa and balague made the point that why would the media be critical of rotation now and why would liverpool fans buy into it....rafa has and will always rotates,its just his way.Why are we surprised?
Also its a pity that no english journo we read has the balls to say that Gerrard should shut the **** up 90percent of the time,rafa under pressure about rotation and his captain pops out with,yeah i think if torres is fit he should start always etc.We all agree but gerrards role is not to question rafa in the media.

Also in regard to our back four,i think Arbeloa should be a starter ahead of riise.Kevin Mccarra was saying our signings hadnt worked(an old media ploy against rafa) but torres are voronin have 7 league goals between them,not bad for rotated strikers.Arbeloa looks great at the back,yossi has scored two important and fantastic goals and Babel/levia/leto were all bought for the future seasons.Why do journalists feel the need to print ****e?

jesus_thats_gre

herbieflowers wrote: »

Rotation is no good though if you're dropping points...and it's not even rotation, basically Pool look distinctly average minus Torres

It is nothing to do with Torres or rotation. It is down to making 5 outfield changes every match. Rotation, when done in moderation, makes perfect sense. Rafa just pushes the envelope a bit too much.

herbieflowers

A matter of semantics, how about extreme rotation, then? I think it has a lot to do with Torres, he's Pool's most dangerous player and much of their good play this season has gone through him...he needs to play, not to be rested or rotated every second game or so...

ButcherOfNog

herbieflowers wrote: »

A matter of semantics, how about extreme rotation, then? I think it has a lot to do with Torres, he's Pool's most dangerous player and much of their good play this season has gone through him...he needs to play, not to be rested or rotated every second game or so...

Torres has started the last 4 games.......extreme rotation?

Mr Alan

i would have thought it was fairly obvious that Arbeloa was Rafas first choice LB now, maybe fighting it out with Aurelio. Rafa seems to have lost faith in Riise and i can't blame him.

ButcherOfNog

Alonso possibly back for the Everton game, both he and Agger should both be back for Arsenal. Alonso's recovery is a bit ahead of Agger.

mike65

http://www.squarefootball.net/article/transfer.asp?tid=627

Mike.

~Rebel~

I saw that Riise Villa rumour around a bit alright. im not sure how i feel about it to be honest. I've been quite annoyed at him this season, and parts of last with his wastefullness and with not being big on the teamplay, but at the same time, he's been with us so long and has given us some extraordinary memories. I dont want him as first choice anymore, but he's a valuable squad member for that left side still.

StickyMcGinty

Reserves game finished 1-1, Lieva hit the post in the last minute too..

Good finish by Spearing for our goal, both Rafa and Alex were at the game too

Dont be at yourself

I'd be in favour of keeping Riise too. Our left side is still weak, and his versatility could come in extremely handy. Had we landed Heinze in the summer, I might be thinking differently, but as it stands, I'd hate to see him go!

jesus_thats_gre

Would defo be in favour of keeping Riise on the books...

Mr Alan

Have to say i think if we could get €6m+ for Riise, we should let him go, we have Aurelio,Arbeloa,Insua (been quite impressed witht his fella everytime i've seen him) who can play left full and Kewell,Benayoun,Babel,Aurelio,Leto who can play left wing.

Adios John Arne, i say.

Leto seemed to play class last night (and every other time i've ever seen him for the reserves) so i think its fair that he got his chance, and i hope he gets more chances. Also-Insua,Spearing and Putteril,l i hope to see feature in the Carling Cup and even possibly a couple of league appearances, all seem to "have it".

RE*AC*TOR

Bollox. Riise is hugely underrated. Villa would bite our hands off for £6m. He's strong, reasonably quick, has operated as part of one of the leanest defenses in the league for years. can also operate on the wing, he's no quaresma, but I would say he has done better than any other winger we've had at the club in the last 5 years - including Pennant (who is starting to look better). Oh and he has a cannon for a left leg.

He's been a great servant to the club and he always gives 100%. Kewell is never fit. Babel has yet to convince me he has a future as a winger, Leto has yet to prove he is near the level required, Benayoun is not a winger, and he's definetly not a left winger. Riise is stronger defensively than Aurelio, and Insua is still a youngster. For me that puts Riise in competition for left back with Arbeloa, and as a useful alternative on the wing in situation requiring more cover on the left.

Bounty Hunter

if the rumour which goes as follows is true its ominous for the "keep Riise" fans here as selling your home is a big step pre-transfer.
---
O’Neill’s focus is now on finding specialist options for the full-back positions and a £14m double hit for Liverpool’s John Arne Riise and Porto’s Jose Bosingwa has emerged as the dream solution.

O’Neill wanted both in the summer and thought he had snagged Liverpool’s Norwegian international in a £6m deal.

But the move fell through when the Anfield club failed to sign his intended replacement Gabriel Heinze after a bitter war of words with Manchester United.

Risse, who even sold his house in anticipation of a move to the Midlands, is still ready to come and O’Neill is hoping a fresh approach in the new year can do the trick.
---

PHB

Riise is a fine defender, but he is hugely hugely hugely wasteful with the ball, perhaps the most wasteful of all the Liverpool players.

Mr Alan

Riise is not stronger defensively than Aurelio for starters.
He is a selfish lazy liability in my opinion.
True he has provided us with some great moments, namely his dinging goals BUT that is not a reason to keep a player, and Rafa certainly won't see it as a reason (think,Luis Garcia).
I'd imagine that he is one of the highest earners in the team (despite being bankrupt! ), but in reality he is a defensive liability, and even in an attacking sense, he is more a liability than an asset.
he is only ever interested in striking for goal once he gets within 35 yards....this result in countless attacks breaking down,because of his lust for the glory moment. 1 in a 100 may go in top corner, but that is not good enough. Just like him.

RE*AC*TOR

Mr Alan wrote: »

Riise is not stronger defensively than Aurelio for starters.

I fundamentally disagree. Aurelio has only been at the club a year and has been injured for most of 2007. He did initially look like he had positional difficulties at left back early on and his best moments of play were in the final third. His form was good up to his injury though. I don't think we've seen enough of Aurelio (less than 20 starts in all competitions) at left back to conclusively say he is the answer to that position. Riise has played over 300 matches for Liverpool, and has been a very solid performer at left back.

Mr Alan

While I agree that Aurelios 20 starts are not enough to be certain that he is a quality left back, he has already shown us that he is more than capable of taking Riises place (as he had done before his injury).

As you say, Riise has played 300+ games for Liverpool and STILL isn't good enough, whereas Aurelio and Arbeloa will only get better. Give the position to Aurelio and Arbeloa with Insua challenging them.

RE*AC*TOR

Mr Alan wrote: »

As you say, Riise has played 300+ games for Liverpool and STILL isn't good enough, whereas Aurelio and Arbeloa will only get better. Give the position to Aurelio and Arbeloa with Insua challenging them.

Yeah but I disagree that Riise isn't good enough, the statistics speak for themselves quite frankly. Sure sometime he's wasteful in the final third, at the moment his shooting isn't ranged in. But remember Barca last year, he ran them ragged.

Vokes

Riise is definitely the better defensively between himself and Aurelio. All those clean sheets in the league the past 5 years are not soley down to Carragher, Hyypia et al.

It just his shooting and passing have been simply awful the past few months.

Would be sad to see him go.

Mr Alan

I'd be sad enough to see him go too tbh, he's given us some great moments.

Obviously he had a part to play in our great defensive record over the last few seasons, but i don't think it was a major part tbh, and i feel Aurelio and Arbeloa would be equally solid in our back line with the potential to improve massively, whereas he is only getting worse.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

kaimera

Maybe I'm in the minority but I don't feel comfortable with either Aurelio or Arbeloa playing for us. :-/

Keep Riise unless he wants to go.

PiE

I'd have no problem with Riise staying either, I just don't want him on the wing anymore.

Mr Alan

Arbeloa has been about our best player this year?!

And Re*Ac*Tor didnt Riise play on the wing against Barca last year? with Arbeloa LB? Yea Riise was very decent alright, but he had a lot to prove (after the golf club incident), and that performance was very much an exception as opposed to the norm. I wouldn't have any major issues with keeping him solely to play on the wing as cover in the event of a few injuries.

copacetic

Mr Alan wrote: »

Yea Riise was very decent alright, but he had a lot to prove (after the golf club incident)

I'm not sure why getting attacked by a nutter with a golf club leaves you with 'a lot to prove'

RE*AC*TOR

Mr Alan wrote: »

Arbeloa has been about our best player this year?!

And Re*Ac*Tor didnt Riise play on the wing against Barca last year? with Arbeloa LB? Yea Riise was very decent alright, but he had a lot to prove (after the golf club incident), and that performance was very much an exception as opposed to the norm. I wouldn't have any major issues with keeping him solely to play on the wing as cover in the event of a few injuries.

My point re barca is that he can be very effective on the left wing.

Like copacetic I fail to understand why he had anything to prove after Bellamy mugged him with a golf club.

I definitely rate Arbeloa though, he's hardly put a foot wrong since he joined.