Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

Currently, Chelsea had a manager resign and United had no strikers are the start. Look at them now, see whatcha think.



lol, currently the following United players are injured:

Scholes, Saha, Carrick, Hargreaves, Silvestre, Foster, Park, Neville. That's right now.
Also so far this season, Ronaldo has been banned for 3 matches, Anderson has been injured, VDS has been injured, Fletcher had a broken leg, Rooney has had a broken foot,

For Chelsea the current players are injured:

Cole, Terry and Ballack. All first choice. Throughout the season Essien, Carvalho, Drogba, Lampard have all been injured.

I dont see your point. Utd have 3 first choice players out at the minute, Chelsea have 3, Liverpool have FIVE first team players out at the moment. 4 if you dont count Kewell.

Aurelio, Arbeloa, Agger, Alonso, Kewell, Torres out injured at the moment. Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, Finnan, Riise have all missed games due to injury as well this season. It has definitely had an effect on the team.

The spine of the outfield team is - Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres. Three of those five are out at the moment...

jesus_thats_gre

As **** as things are, can no one actually just keep a level head on this.. We were missing 3 players along the spine of the team - Agger, Alonso and Torres. You can ever predict who Rafa is gonna pick but there is no doubting all 3 would have played in a must match along with Gerard.

People are also forgetting that up to Agger getting injured, we conceeded no goals from open play. How many mistakes has Hypia made in recent matches? Not using him as scapegoat but he does need to be replace - and quickly!

Melion

Anybody think Hobbs should get a run?

shotamoose

Mr Alan wrote: »

All of the above were able to play together last year, able to get to a CL final and started the game today, so your point is nonsense.

I didn't say they are a bunch of strangers, I said they played like a bunch of strangers. They played some reasonable football last year but haven't progressed this year, if anything the reverse. It's that lack of progression and that lack of flow in the team despite, as you helpfully point out, their having been together for a good while now, that's the worry.

The players play with eachother every day for hours in training and a lot have been playing together for years...we're just going through a **** time, happens all clubs.

Oh I hope you're right and it's just a passing trend, but it's looking less and less like that. I'm a big fan of Rafa and what he's done for Liverpool but the disjointedness we've shown over and over again this year is frightening.

Mr Alan

1 Arsenal 9 8 1 0 21 / 6 25
2 Manchester United 10 7 2 1 15 / 3 23
3 Manchester City 10 7 1 2 15 / 7 22
4 Liverpool 9 5 4 0 16 / 5 19

would have taken that at the start of the season. beat arsenal at the weekend and we are flying.

didnt fancy a trip to moscow anyway,absolute camel ride to get there.

shows the wonders rafa has done that we would be so disappointed, calling for him to get the sack if we dont get out of the groups of the CL, he has had us at two CL finals in three years, and won 1 FA cup. we all thought/think we have a good chance of winning the CL, would we have thought the same 5 years ago?!!?!?

the guy is building a dynasty, we just need to give him time Ferguson needed time with the mancs, didnt win a title for 7 ****ing years or watever. Rafa won a CL in his first year.

I really do dispair about the quality of some of our fans to be honest.

shotamoose, i agree with some of wat you are saying but the simple fact is these players have played great in the past together, them playing ****e tonight cannot be the managers fault imo. right maybe Crouch should have come on earlier, but how many times has crouch come on and been practically invisible? the guys attitude is ****e coming off the bench

whatawaster

Melion wrote: »

I wouldnt even bother with Kewell, Babel is younger and should be given games. Christ, id recall Hamill and play him rather than Harry.

Oh and Leto should definitely get games, he looks a star for the reserves

Leto is not good enough at this level.

I'm really worried about our season now. If we lose to Arsenal we are f****d in the Prem and the CL.

Melion

whatawaster wrote: »

Leto is not good enough at this level.

I'm really worried about our season now. If we lose to Arsenal we are f****d in the Prem and the CL.

Leto hasnt been given a chance. He was excellent against Reading, had a 'mare against Marseille(who didnt) and hasnt been seen since. He has been outstanding for the reserves this season.

Mr Alan

over reaction of the night goes to.......

whatawaster wrote: »

I'm really worried about our season now. If we lose to Arsenal we are f****d in the Prem and the CL.

Zapp Brannigan

Wouldn't mind seeing Hobbs, he's got a good presence when I see him in the reserves. He'd prolly play better than Hyppia is at the moment!

Mr Alan

yea hobbs may be a good call alright, i'll admit i got it wrong with hypia, i thought he'd be able to do a job when Carra got injured (and i was pretty much right:)) but this Agger injury has shown us up a little at the back. I blame the mancs for not letting us have Heinze did anyone else hear we might be putting a cheeky bid in for him in Jan, supposedly things aren't going to plan at Real.....i would looooooove that

Zapp Brannigan

I think he's injured and thats why he's not getting on so great at Real. I doubt Rafa will go after him again though.

HashSlinging

PHB wrote: »

So heres the thing, if Liverpool go out of the CL this early, and fail to mount a title challenge, should the board start to consider Rafas position?

But we are mounting a title challenge or havent you seen the table, Troll TBH.

Mr Alan

PHB is in NO WAY a troll. He is asking a fair question.

Loads of Liverpool fans seem to think that rafa is not up to it.

tbh, i find the reactions of a lot of our fans tonight more worrying than the result.

football fans are so fickle, seems like only yesterday we hammered Derby 6-0 playing great football, where were the people calling for Rafas head then???

~Rebel~

HashSlinging wrote: »

But we are mounting a title challenge or havent you seen the table, Troll TBH.

Well he did say IF we fail to get out of the groups and dont challenge for the title. Fair comment/question IMO.

To answer, Yeah, if we finished a distant 3rd, 4th again and were out of the champions league in the groups, as well as doing nothing or merit in the FA cup, then questions would asked. I wouldn't personally want him gone at that point just yet, but some definately would. I would however be keeping a very close eye on things the following season and if they didn't take an upturn quickly, he could find himself in trouble.


All very hypothetical though, if's and but's etc so one for the future (or hopefully not!)

<edit> Mr Alan beat me to it.

copacetic

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB is in NO WAY a troll. He is asking a fair question.

he has been doing a fairly good impression tonight though..

Zapp Brannigan

copacetic wrote: »

he has been doing a fairly good impression tonight though..

I really can't see it? PHB is nearly always accurate with his assessments and he's definitely not just here to rile up everybody like yer usual troll.

Mr Alan

worse has been said by Liverpool fans in this thread tonight than anything PHB has said, the team he supports is irrelevant (although it does make him less of a man )

Jesus Wept

Mr Alan wrote: »

Pako was a fitness coach, granted he was with Rafa years and was close to the players, but thats basically wat he was, a fitness coach. co-incidence is exactly wat it is that our form has dipped since he has left. do ya not think something else interesting happened at that time to that could explain our dip in form?! possibly Agger,Alonsos injury? Even the injuries to Carragher/Gerrard/Torres?.....thats 5 players who are certain to start (even with Rafa).

the team is just going through a bad spell, happens to all teams.

Speaking of fitness, I thought the players looked really sluggish over short distances, getting to the ball when it was 1 yard away, Besiktas seemed to win most of those balls, perhaps a complete coincidence.


Hyypiahas turned into a liability, which is a shame as he has been a great servant. We should of bought a CB in the summer to compete with Agger.

Mr Alan

i think he thought we were getting one until aul whiskey nose ruined it for us!

btw, i thought Gerrard was a lot better tonight than he has been, couple of odd passes, but some of the hunger that was missing seemed to be there i thought, looked like a leader again.

but maybe it was just me

going to bed to cry

An Citeog

Tusky wrote: »

I dont see your point. Utd have 3 first choice players out at the minute, Chelsea have 3, Liverpool have FIVE first team players out at the moment. 4 if you dont count Kewell.

Aurelio, Arbeloa, Agger, Alonso, Kewell, Torres out injured at the moment. Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, Finnan, Riise have all missed games due to injury as well this season. It has definitely had an effect on the team.

The spine of the outfield team is - Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres. Three of those five are out at the moment...

Without wanting to hijack your thread, United were actually missing 6 first team players last night. Neville, Evra, Carrick, Hargreaves, Scholes and Saha were all out. Liverpools current problems lie in the strength in depth of their defence and some other average players scattered around the park eg. Pennant, Kuyt and Voronin. You've still got Torres though, you lucky bastards!

Stky10

The-Rigger wrote: »

Hyypia has turned into a liability, which is a shame as he has been a great servant. We should of bought a CB in the summer to compete with Agger.

That was said plenty of times before the window closed, but loads on here disagreed. Its come home to roost though. Some very strange transfer dealings over the years eg selling Kromkamp and not getting in a replacement and so having Finnan as the only option, or not getting a decent third CB and then selling Paletta as well. Granted if Kromkamp and Paletta are the answer, then the wrong question is being asked, but they're better than nothing.

Don't think it would be fair to Hobbs to play him against Arsenal with the form they're in at the moment. A bad display could ruin his confidence (and the fans confidence in him) for years.

joe123

whatawaster wrote: »

Leto is not good enough at this level.

I'm really worried about our season now. If we lose to Arsenal we are f****d in the Prem and the CL.

What are you on about? How many times have you seen leto play this season? Hes hardly started any matches so you cant just expect him to be amazing from the off.

Same goes for babel and Lucas. Both these guys have plenty of potential but if you expect them to preform straight off the bat then you dont understand football.

These guys need a year. They are young so relax. Im not saying they will become world beaters but at least give them a chance.FFS!

Regarding Benitez i think some people need to calm down. This season is THE big one for benitez regarding the league. As long as we are right up there on may 15th its fine by me and probably alot of liverpool fans. Champions league is important and yes the money is wanted/not needed.

We can still qualify for the knockouts and Im confident.

In rafa we trust and all of that. Come the end of the season is the time to judge I reckon anyways (unless results become god awful--they wont

Nunu

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Jeez lads, nought to be upset about, sure its not till next season we're due back in the final again!


On another note, that was absolutely rubbish. Passing was shocking. Someone needs to tell them they're allowed to look at a guy 10feet away, and pass it to him. It seems whenever they're not doing those massive superpasses 147yards that they need to add an extra dimension of difficulty so do a one touch pass without looking. Its not a fking challenge lads!


Right: New plan!

---

Pepe
Finnan--Carra--Agger--Arbeloa
Pennant--Masch--Alonso--Babel/Yossi

---

Gerrard

---

Torres

With Gerrard expressly forbidden from leaving the final 3rd on the pitch.

Ye, it seems blatantly obvious to me anyway. I posted the same here exactly a month ago:

I honestly believe Liverpools best first 11 should have Torres up top with Gerrard just off him. Liverpools 3 other strikers just aren't good enough. Incidentally, I think Gerrard would be a revelation in that position. Especially with Torres to work with.

And midfield would be Babel, Alonso, Mascherano and Pennant.

Would any 'pool fans fancy that idea?

~Rebel~

Stky10 wrote: »

Some very strange transfer dealings over the years eg selling Kromkamp and not getting in a replacement and so having Finnan as the only option

Umm the replacement for Kromkamp was Arbeloa. He's right footed and been a right back all his career (R.M Castilla and Deportivo) and has only played left for us because Finnan's an ever present and Arbeloa is better then Riise (Aurelio has been out all the time).

our LB's by trade are Riise, Aurelio and Insua, our RB's by trade are Finnan Arbeloa and I suppose Darby. We just happen to be lucky Arbeloa is quality enough to play either side

Dont be at yourself

Can't believe the knee-jerk reactions on here.

We're off the back of a tough game at Everton, missing key players, and travelling to Istanbul - which isn't an easy place to go looking for a result. We lost, but it was always going to be a tough game.

The Champions League is looking a lot less likely now, but it's not the end of the world. Almost every Liverpool fan on this board universally agreed that the priority this year should be the league. I'm glad Alonso and Torres weren't risked from the start in Istanbul - even if it means we dropped 3 points.

And hey, it's not over yet. Porto, Marseille and Besiktas will all take points off each other. As someone mentioned earlier, we made it out of the group by the skin of our teeth in 2005, and look what happened then.

The most important game of the week is still at the weekend. It's going to be a big, big game. Fingers crossed Torres and Alonso will be fit and ready, and we can get the result we need.

YNWA.

opr

Babel frustrated me alot tonight. Loads of times he was 1 on 1 with his man and i was like GO AT HIM GO ON GO FOR THE LINE and time and time again he slowed the pace and passed it back.

He had one moment in the match when he went at this man and flew past hm got to the byline and put in a suberb cross and i just threw my hands in the air shouting THATS WHAT I WANT TO SEE.

From reading up on him and listening to what the other liverpool players have said about him in training i still have high hopes that with a bit of confidence we will see more of the good stuff and he could be a special player.

Opr

Tusky

An Citeog wrote: »

Without wanting to hijack your thread, United were actually missing 6 first team players last night. Neville, Evra, Carrick, Hargreaves, Scholes and Saha were all out. Liverpools current problems lie in the strength in depth of their defence and some other average players scattered around the park eg. Pennant, Kuyt and Voronin. You've still got Torres though, you lucky bastards!

I was talking about 1st team starters, not 1st team players.

Cyrus

lads it really isnt doom and gloom, we definately have to win the last 3 games but we should have enough in the locker to do it

dare i say it tho, maybe, just for this year mind, getting knocked out of the CL wouldnt be the worst thing in the world

its not as if we have a whole lot to prove in europe, a title challenege (im talking no more than 5-6 points off the top at the end of the season) would serve us a lot better than a repeat of last seasons CL final and poor league showing

Mitch Connor

Tusky wrote: »

I was talking about 1st team starters, not 1st team players.

Neville, Evra, Scholes, Carrick and Saha were all first choice players when fit last season, and would be this season too (maybe less so with Saha as we now have Tevez) and Hargreaves would be a first choice player if he was ever fit.

event

that quote from rafa would be worrying though

"If we play like we did against Besiktas, we can win the final matches," said Liverpool boss Benitez.

"The players worked hard and you cannot blame them. The fans will be positive we can do it after seeing the game."

surely he has to realise that ye need to play better than last night?

i still reckon they can do it though

kida

Didn't see the game last night but Carragher has by and large been shocking in the last few games.

Stky10

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Umm the replacement for Kromkamp was Arbeloa. He's right footed and been a right back all his career (R.M Castilla and Deportivo) and has only played left for us because Finnan's an ever present and Arbeloa is better then Riise (Aurelio has been out all the time).

I know.. but my point was that Kromkamp was sold in August, and Arbeloa wasn't bought till January, so that left us with only Finnan to play RB.

A team is only as strong as its weakest link. So I'm surprised they repeated the trick this year by leaving themselves so weak at CB when it was a position that obviously needed to be strengthened. Yeah the Heinze deal didn't come off, but there should have been a plan B.

kida

kida wrote: »

Didn't see the game last night but Carragher has by and large been shocking in the last few games.

In fairness to him, thats cos he's playin beside Hyypia.


Looking at the table its definititely gonna require a huge effort to qualify for the next round. I wouldnt be overly confident considering the Velodrome is a tough place to go.

PHB

Tusky wrote: »

I dont see your point. Utd have 3 first choice players out at the minute, Chelsea have 3, Liverpool have FIVE first team players out at the moment. 4 if you dont count Kewell.

Aurelio, Arbeloa, Agger, Alonso, Kewell, Torres out injured at the moment. Carragher, Gerrard, Kuyt, Finnan, Riise have all missed games due to injury as well this season. It has definitely had an effect on the team.

The spine of the outfield team is - Carragher, Agger, Gerrard, Alonso, Torres. Three of those five are out at the moment...

The point is that United and Liverpool have similar injury issues right now. Scholes, Neville, Evra, Carrick/Hargreaves would all defo be in the first 11 if they are fit. That's both the central midfield and both the full backs missing. Chelsea are missing Terry, Cole and Ballack, also three first choice players. The injury problems are pretty similar, Arsenal on the other hand have been relatively lucky with injuries, but still unlucky (losing Van Persie)

kida wrote: »

Didn't see the game last night but Carragher has by and large been shocking in the last few games.

That's cause he's playing next to Hyypia who just isn't up to it anymore.

PHB

PHB wrote: »

The point is that United and Liverpool have similar injury issues right now. Scholes, Neville, Evra, Carrick/Hargreaves would all defo be in the first 11 if they are fit. That's both the central midfield and both the full backs missing. Chelsea are missing Terry, Cole and Ballack, also three first choice players. The injury problems are pretty similar, Arsenal on the other hand have been relatively lucky with injuries, but still unlucky (losing Van Persie)



That's cause he's playing next to Hyypia who just isn't up to it anymore.

Dont forget Saha. So actually the injury problems are almost te exact same really.

Spud83

Mr Alan wrote: »

shows the wonders rafa has done that we would be so disappointed, calling for him to get the sack if we dont get out of the groups of the CL, he has had us at two CL finals in three years, and won 1 FA cup. we all thought/think we have a good chance of winning the CL, would we have thought the same 5 years ago?!!?!?

Nobody said he should get the sack if you dont get out of the groups. But if he fails to get yas out of the group and you are not challenging for the title at the end of the season then should his position be looked at. Put it this way if you finish as far behind as last season, and get knocked out should he go? The point is, is he making progress? Has there been an improvement year after year?

whatawaster

Giles said last night what every Liverpool fan has been saying for two years. Nobody in Midfield wants the ball. Mascherano actually makes an effort to get tight to an opposition player when Hyypia or Carragher have the ball. Alonso is no different when he plays. Yet watch them for Spain or Argentina and it's a completely different story. Rafa must be the only one who doesn't see/is OK with this.

Perhaps even more worryingly is how stretched our play has become. Over the last two years, I think much of our european success has been down to how compact we play - we defend as a unit, and attack as a unit. Now we are all over the place, more often than not there is 20/30 yards between defence and midfield and midfield and attack. Gerrard leaves huge holes in the middle of the field, and, though it would be unfair to solely blame him, he must not play there against Arsenal.

Not 1, but 2 centre-backs are needed in January - including one with plenty of experience. A left back is essential (Riise, i'm sorry, but you have to go).

I thought Babel did look more comfortable as a Striker, and i'm amazed he hasn't been given a go there. Maybe at Arsenal?

Please god let Torres and Alonso be fit for Saturday. I wonder will Xabi feature for the reserves for maybe 45 minutes tonight?

Chardee MacDennis

my team for arse:

Reina
Finnan - Arbeloa - Carra - Aurielio
Pennant - Gerrard - Alonso - Riise
Crouch - Torres

are all these players fit?

whatawaster

Call_me_al wrote: »

my team for arse:

Reina
Finnan - Arbeloa - Carra - Aurielio
Pennant - Gerrard - Alonso - Riise
Crouch - Torres

are all these players fit?

Riise left wing is a no-no.

Arbeloa could be a good shot for CB though. I'd be more inclined to go with

---

Reina

---

Finnan

---

Carragher----Arbeloa

---

Riise

Benayoun

---

Mascherano---Alonso

---

Gerrard

---

Torres

---

Babel

---

mike65

Mr Alan wrote: »

. beat arsenal at the weekend and we are flying.

What gives you any reason to think Arsenal won't thrash Pool on Sunday?

shows the wonders rafa has done that we would be so disappointed, calling for him to get the sack if we dont get out of the groups of the CL, he has had us at two CL finals in three years, and won 1 FA cup. we all thought/think we have a good chance of winning the CL, would we have thought the same 5 years ago?!!?!?

Its not the possibly CL failure thats got peoples backs up, its the whole set-up. Poor play, chopping and changing, the lack of any understandable vision for Liverpools playing style

the guy is building a dynasty, we just need to give him time Ferguson needed time with the mancs, didnt win a title for 7 ****ing years or watever. Rafa won a CL in his first year.

Managers don't get 7 years to achive anything anymore.

I really do dispair about the quality of some of our fans to be honest.

I will never be a 'superfan' I prefer to see something for what it is.

At what point does a blip become a trend? Now or after Arsenal if we loose, or after Blackurn?

After the game Rafa said Liverpool controlled the game, if he thinks thats sufficent (and its highly debatable if you control a game in which you spend the entirity behind) he's clearly confused. You have to win it too.

Mike.

Kone

whatawaster wrote: »

Giles said last night what every Liverpool fan has been saying for two years. Nobody in Midfield wants the ball. Mascherano actually makes an effort to get tight to an opposition player when Hyypia or Carragher have the ball. Alonso is no different when he plays. Yet watch them for Spain or Argentina and it's a completely different story. Rafa must be the only one who doesn't see/is OK with this.

Nail on the head there mate, I am genuinely worried at the moment. :mad:

Kone

whatawaster wrote: »

Riise left wing is a no-no.

Arbeloa could be a good shot for CB though. I'd be more inclined to go with

---

Reina

---

Finnan

---

Carragher----Arbeloa

---

Riise

Benayoun

---

Mascherano---Alonso

---

Gerrard

---

Torres

---

Babel

---

As far as I know Arbeloa is still out.

Gerrard on the left???

I'd go with Crouch instead of Babel, he looked good with Torres against Reading.

raven136

is this not down to certain players having bad form all at the same time,hypia,gerarrd,carra,sisokko and masch have been average at best this season.

Also without trying to start an internal liverpool war but Gerarrd has been brutal in centre midfield and we look a weaker team with him in that position.Is Alonso back for sunday and dear god tell me agger will be back soon.

_blank_

mike65 wrote: »

After the game Rafa said Liverpool controlled the game, if he thinks thats sufficent (and its highly debatable if you control a game in which you spend the entirity behind) he's clearly confused. You have to win it too.

They clearly didn't.

They played into Besiktas hands.

After they went one up, the allowed Liverpool to come onto them, and hit them on the counter. It worked, and they went further ahead.

Besiktas controlled the game.

Having possession does not equal controlling a game.

It went exactly the way Besiktas wanted it to.

whatawaster

Kone wrote: »

As far as I know Arbeloa is still out.

Gerrard on the left???

I'd go with Crouch instead of Babel, he looked good with Torres against Reading.

Yeah I think Gerrard can be as effective on the left as the right. Anyway he and benayoun/Pennant/Babel or whoever can switch sides. He just needs to be on either side. We need balance in the middle and that means two from Mascherano / Alonso / Lucas.

mike65

If Agger is'nt playing on Sunday maybe Liverpool would be better with 3 at the back and 2 defensive midefielders

---

Reina
--Finnan--Carra--Risse

---

Masch-ANother
Yossi----Gerrard---Babel

---

Crouch-Torres

Lucas or Alonso besides Mascherano

Mike.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

What gives you any reason to think Arsenal won't thrash Pool on Sunday?

I obviously am not saying i think we'll definately win on Sunday, its gonna be a tough game. But at the end of the day, we are unbeaten in the league. We have the players to beat any team. And we have a manager who knows how to beat any team.

mike65 wrote: »

Its not the possibly CL failure thats got peoples backs up, its the whole set-up. Poor play, chopping and changing, the lack of any understandable vision for Liverpools playing style?

I agree Liverpools form for the last while has been poor, but their form at the start of the season was excellent, it works in cycles and we just have to hope Liverpool are nearing the end of their poor form.

mike65 wrote: »

Managers don't get 7 years to achive anything anymore.?

So Rafa has achieved nothing? Champions league in 2005? FA cup in 2006? Rafa has been achieving things since the day he arrived at Liverpool, what i am saying is that he should be given time to get it right in the league. The team is constantly improving (player quality wise). And he has shown he can win leagues in the past. Added to the fact there is not a better cup manager in world football. If he gets the league right (which i'm sure he will in the next
3 years), we can enter a period of dominance and start consistantly adding to 18 leagues+5European cups.

mike65 wrote: »

At what point does a blip become a trend? Now or after Arsenal if we loose, or after Blackurn?

Are you talking about in Europe or the League?

In europe Rafa is an excellent manager, i think no one is in doubt about that.

In the League? I wasnt really aware of a blip? I'm aware we've not been playing our best, but we are still firmly in the title race, so a blip comes when we start consistantly losing league matches. (if we were to lose to Arsenal on Sunday is not a blip either, a setback yes, but not some sort of disaster)

For years Liverpool fans have watched Utd go through awful periods of form but still maintain title challenge after title challenge. We are all told, this is wat title winning teams do, ground out results when they are playing poorly.

Now for the first time......WE ARE DOING THAT

form is temporary class is permanent, Rafa has class, Gerrard has class, Alonso has class, Carragher has class, Liverpool have class. We'll be back to top form soon, and when we are, we will still be firmly in the title race. that is when things will get interesting.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

ground out results when they are playing poorly.

Now for the first time......WE ARE DOING THAT

You's have been doing that for years:p

Mr Alan

beats yous doing it for 20 odd years!

PHB

The way for Liverpool to beat Arsenal is to physically battle them to the ground and then score with some magic, as such, Liverpools formation should be something like this,

---

Reina

---

--Finnan---Carragher---Hyypia--Riise

---

Mascherano-Lucas

---

--Pennant

---

Gerrard

---

Babel--

---

Torres

---

Mascherano can do a job on Fabregas. Lucas would be the playmaker, not giving away the ball, spreading it. You have to maintain decent possession against Arsenal otherwise you're ****ed. Riise and Gerrard will have to be told to stop shooting from 50 yards out and maybe play a simplier pass. Between Torres and Gerrard you should be able to get some magic there, and maybe nick a goal, if you remain solid at the back.
Arsenal are somewhat vulnerable defensively. Flamini has done well, but is still suspect as a DM. I doubt he'd be able to deal with an average form Gerrard, although I wouldn't be surprised to see Gilberto back for this game. Also putting Pennant on the right really puts some prssure on Clichy, as Pennant can match him for pace, but is probably more skillful.

If ALonso is fit, I'd go with,

---

Reina

---

--Finnan---Carragher---Hyypia--Riise

---

Mascherano-Alonso

---

--Gerrard

---

Lucas

---

Babel--

---

Torres

---

That'd put Clichy under real pressure, especially from the high ball. Gerrard getting a header down to Lucas or Torres would be a really good outlet.