Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

raven136

was at the match and we did better than i expected.Did anyone expect us to outpass the best passing team in the world?we played them on the break and gave them possesion which they found hard to use and break us down.A draw is a good result,we have played two of the top 4 and havent lost.We are without our first choice centre half and had a half fit striker.

On another point steven gerrard cannot play the role rafa obviously wants,ie a cesc.Does he shift him to the right or behind torres.Everytime we play a big team with him in the middle the game bypasses our midfield.

On the way out of the ground a pool fan actually said to me,do you think rafa will make it till the end of the season.I didnt know whether to laugh or hit him

Mr Alan

shoulda hit him

tibor

These are doing the rounds on the internets.
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00222nf9.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00220gy5.jpg
Fake?

Mr Alan

If they are real, the guy is an idiot.

A rich idiot!

whatawaster

No way can that be true. He's never on 120,000 a week.

Guy:Incognito

raven136 wrote: »

,we have played two of the top 4 and havent lost.

We havnt won either. The way the others are playign at the minute they can afford draws against us. We cant.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

A rich idiot!

I doubt he meant Riise.


I cant see them posting pay slips. I would have thought it would say LFC somewhere on in. All my jobs had the company name somewhere on the payslip.

redspider

Liverpool 1-1 Arsenal

Well, I haven't compiled a full report - yes, I can sense your dissapointment already .... ;-)

It was a good game I thought, at least from the neutral's perspective, and a good display of Arsenal's "possession, pass and move" game. Liverpool at times looked as if they were apprentices learning the sport. Although they did have their moments, it was Arsenal who were able to control the ball, but it was a fair result in terms of the chances generated. Mind you, the woodwork did save Liverpool a couple of times but Fabregas's goal was soft enough, Reyna could have done better perhaps. Arsenal will be happy enough with the point I expect, and I think we have to as well.

Liverpool played 4-2-3-1, but having both Kuyt and Voronin wide rather than 'proper' wingers meant that a lot of wide possession couldnt be put to its correct use. Torres was a lonely figure up-front and Liverpool werent able to string that many passes together. The Alonso-Mascherano partnership worked well, and Liverpool missed Alonso when he limped off.

What the game did show, and I think I've already said it here, is that Liverpool wont be winning the league this year. The title race is between Man Utd and Arsenal, and maybe Chelsea can make it a 3 club race, but that's a maybe.

> A draw is a good result,we have played two of the top 4 and havent lost

A draw is an okay result if we are aiming to be 2nd best and finiosh in the top-4. But that's all. In terms of aiming to win the league, these two home games agaijnst Chelsea and Arsenal should have been wins. One draw out of two would be okay, if the returm leg is a draw also. In recent years, Liverpool have been failing badly against the others in the top-4 and until this is threatened, there will be no league title. There will be none this season, that's or sure, and yesterday's result (and the game itself) cemented that.

Redspider

redspider

Now that all clubs have played 10 games, its a good time to do a comparison:

26 Arsenal
25
24
23 Man Utd  
22 Man City
21 Blackburn
20 Liverpool
19
18 Chelsea Portsmouth  
17 Newcastle  
16
15 Aston Villa  
14 West Ham
13 Everton
12
11
10 Reading
9
8 Birmingham Fulham Sunderland Wigan Middlesbrough
7 Tottenham  
6 Derby  
5 Bolton

It looks like its shaping up between Arsenal and Man Utd. Chelsea may get back into it but that's an unknown. Liverpool should be okay for a top-4 spot.

The relegation battle is tight and fierce. Reading are not yet out of it but you would think that Spurs should be able to extract themselves once they get going and get a win under their belts. They were sluggish at the start of last season too.

The table then was:

25	Man U	Chelsea	
24			
23			
22			
21			
20	Bolton		
19	Portsmouth		
18	Arsenal		
17	Everton		
16			
15	Aston Villa		
14	Liverpool	Wigan	
13	Fulham	Reading	
12	Blackburn	Man C	Tottenham
11	Middlesboro		
10			
9			
8	Newcastle	West Ham	
7			
6	Sheff Utd	Watford	
5	Charlton		

The net changes since last year at this stage are as follows:

Man C		+10
Blackburn	+9
Newcastle	+9
Arsenal		+8
Liverpool	+6
West Ham	+6
Aston Villa	0
Portsmouth	-1
Man U		-2
Middlesboro	-3
Reading		-3
Everton		-4
Fulham		-5
Tottenham	-5
Wigan		-6
Chelsea		-7
Bolton		-15

Noteable improvements from Arsenal and Man City, and even Liverpool are doing better than last year at the same stage.

There's a long wayto go but trends have already set in, and from a Liverpool perspectivem the signs arent good (in terms of what fans expect).

Redspider

Mr Alan

I really dont know wat liverpool fans expected this season?! We have improved by 6 points in the first 3 months. Did people expect us to have an unbeaten season? to go top the first week and remain there right through the year? Last few years we have been behind Man Utd and Chelsea, it was never going to happen that one year we are just gonna "walk" the league and win by 15 points or watever, if/when we win it, it will be from hard slog, grafting out results when we haven't being playing well and having a good run in the new year (like we usually do). Any Liverpool fan who hoped we would win the league this year would not have been expecting us to win it by Christmas, all we need to do to have a chance of winning it, is still be in contention to do so at Christmas, at the moment we are on target to do that.

raven136

can i just ask the pessimists out there(redspider in partuicular)if we had held out on sunday what would you have said?is the league table going to be reviewed and our title cahnces talked about after game.

Sometimes i understand why other fans hate us and our attitude.getting a bit disillusioned with the rafa hasnt a clue brigade.

missingtime

What I am dissapointed is the lack of consistancy-performance wise. Since the Chelsea game we have been mediocre and its very frustrating when we are constantly drawing games we know we can win.
I am also very fed up of the rotation policy as it is as plain as day that the players do not know what to do around each other.
Take Rooney and Tevez for example, they have been together pretty much since the start of the season (injuries aside) and now they are almost gelled - first touches for goals etc.
I dont see this happening on our wings/midfield were we have brought in the most players.

missingtime

Liverpool v Cardiff
Liverpool striker Peter Crouch seems set to start only his sixth game of the season after impressing as a second-half substitute against Arsenal.

Harry Kewell could get a run-out after recovering from a groin problem, while second-choice keeper Charles Itandje is set to start.

Cardiff have injury worries over Kevin McNaughton, Roger Johnson, Trevor Sinclair and Paul Parry.

On-loan Kasper Schmeichel is not being allowed to play by Manchester City.

Goalkeeper Michael Oakes will return to the starting line-up in his place, with youngster Josh Magennis on the bench as David Ford is cup-tied.

Liverpool (from): Itandje, Finnan, Carragher, Arbeloa, Aurelio, Kewell, Lucas, Sissoko, Benayoun, Babel, Leto, Crouch, Voronin, Kuyt, Gerrard, Riise, Hobbs, Martin.

From the bbc - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/league_cup/7065191.stm

Melion

Very disappointed not to see more of the youth players in there, we cant afford another injury in a lesser game like this one

spockety

Wouldn't footie be incredibly boring if EVERYONE had the league sussed by October?

Thankfully, NOBODY has the league sussed by October.

I'm staggered at how empty the half full glasses are among Liverpool supporters, it's incredible. If Man Utd beat Arsenal this weekend, and Liverpool beat Blackburn, then the stats after 11 games would be Arsenal 26, Man Utd 26, Liverpool 23, Chelsea 21.

Yis are all nuts!

Mr Alan

missingtime wrote: »

Take Rooney and Tevez for example, they have been together pretty much since the start of the season (injuries aside) and now they are almost gelled - first touches for goals etc.
I dont see this happening on our wings/midfield were we have brought in the most players.

Torres would have played more if it wasnt for injuries.

And dont Kuyt,Torres and Voronin have more goals between them than Tevez,Rooney and Saha?

Rotation is a policy that cannot be judged until the season end.

STOP LISTENING TO ANDY GRAY!!!!!!!!

Melion

spockety wrote: »

Wouldn't footie be incredibly boring if EVERYONE had the league sussed by October?

Thankfully, NOBODY has the league sussed by October.

I'm staggered at how empty the half full glasses are among Liverpool supporters, it's incredible. If Man Utd beat Arsenal this weekend, and Liverpool beat Blackburn, then the stats after 11 games would be Arsenal 26, Man Utd 26, Liverpool 23, Chelsea 21.

Yis are all nuts!

Ive given up trying to talk sense to some people on here. It'll be funnier in May this way when they are all backtracking saying they had faith in Rafa and knew we'd win the league the whole time

mike65

We're not nuts, we merely can't understand what the Boss is trying to achive by his choppy tactics. Where's the vision? Take tonights game, crazy panel for what should be a non-game (do Liverpool really want to win this?), the kids and bench should be playing. The likes of Gerrard, Finnan, Lucas and Carra should'nt be near this match.

Mike.

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

Torres would have played more if it wasnt for injuries.

And dont Kuyt,Torres and Voronin have more goals between them than Tevez,Rooney and Saha?

Rotation is a policy that cannot be judged until the season end.

STOP LISTENING TO ANDY GRAY!!!!!!!!

I hate Andy Gray. I really hate Andy Gray.

But the rotation system hasn't done much for us in the league in previous years.

ibh

Melion wrote: »

Ive given up trying to talk sense to some people on here. It'll be funnier in May this way when they are all backtracking saying they had faith in Rafa and knew we'd win the league the whole time

Yea but at least you can trawl back through the posts and send them all PM's with their stupid statement / comments about how bad Benitez is...

I haven't lost faith in Rafa. I do think however he has made mistakes, and i also think he can be a bit stubborn too, but he can also devise some seriously effective game plans that help us win games when were not expected to.
This is what it's all about, the highs and lows. The Arsenal fans crowing about being top of the league were moaning in the summer about how crap Hleb was and how they sold Henry...

raven136

mike65 wrote: »

We're not nuts, we merely can't understand what the Boss is trying to achive by his choppy tactics. Where's the vision? Take tonights game, crazy panel for what should be a non-game (do Liverpool really want to win this?), the kids and bench should be playing. The likes of Gerrard, Finnan, Lucas and Carra should'nt be near this match.

Mike.

certain players,finnan,gerarrd and sissoko could use these games to get their form back.Add to that a run for crouch,the keeper,leto and hobbs and i dont see a problem with the squad.Also if we can win it then why not give it a crack.

I totally second me alan,please people when andy gray comes on turn off the tv.He has some strange agenda and wont be happy till sum two bit english manager who panders to gerarrds every whim is in charge of us.

Mr Alan

missingtime wrote: »

I hate Andy Gray. I really hate Andy Gray.

But the rotation system hasn't done much for us in the league in previous years.

Have to not scored our highest EVER league points in the last couple of years?

Guy:Incognito

raven136 wrote: »

can i just ask the pessimists out there(redspider in partuicular)if we had held out on sunday what would you have said?is the league table going to be reviewed and our title cahnces talked about after game.:

AAAH. the "what if " arguement of the optomist. "what if" doesnt apply because we didnt. "what if" we went a goal up in every game and never let it slip, we'd win the league by christmas. But we dont , it's always "what if" and by the look of it , it always will be.

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

Have to not scored our highest EVER league points in the last couple of years?

Ahh but to be fair we still finished third.

All i'm saying is that against Besiktas we looked lost for ideas and there was way too many stray passes...that to me means that either the players are rubbish or they do not know how to play alongside each other.

At least we are getting a bit more luck this season...I feel if it was last season we would be 14th again.

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

Wouldn't footie be incredibly boring if EVERYONE had the league sussed by October?

Thankfully, NOBODY has the league sussed by October.

I'm staggered at how empty the half full glasses are among Liverpool supporters, it's incredible. If Man Utd beat Arsenal this weekend, and Liverpool beat Blackburn, then the stats after 11 games would be Arsenal 26, Man Utd 26, Liverpool 23, Chelsea 21.

Yis are all nuts!

Again with the "if's" . As I've said before, at one stage we were a few points ahead of Utd with a game in hand, everyine was saying "we win the game in hand we are X clear of Utd, then we started dropping points and Utd started catching us and it was "if we win our game in hand we'll stay ahead" that turned to "we can catch UTd if we win our game in hand".
Now the best we can do is get within 3 points IF we win the game in hand.
All the while, Arsenal are pulling out.

We're not playing well, had a good run at the start but are dropping points faster than picing them up lately. It's not good enough

Guy:Incognito

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rotation is a policy that cannot be judged until the season end.

How about 3 full seasons and 10 games of a 4th?

Mr Alan wrote: »

Have to not scored our highest EVER league points in the last couple of years?

Did it win us the league? Because noboday really gives a crap if we get 100points and finish 2nd.

raven136

Stekelly wrote: »

How about 3 full seasons and 10 games of a 4th?

how about 2 champions league finals,one won and an fa cup

Guy:Incognito

raven136 wrote: »

how about 2 champions league finals,one won and an fa cup

Thats fair enough and everyone is delighted to win the CL (finishing 2nd in is is irrelevant, we may as well have got knocked out in the group if we dont win it) and it was welcome after a shockinh league performance, but everyone wants the league.

raven136

we all want the league is true but lets remember a few things.Mad rotating rafa has won as many champions league as ferguson,has won more in the past 3 seasons than wenger,his team have got our highest ever premiership points total and set two new goals conceded club records.

now i for one think we should get off the mans back every week and let him do his thing.
I would like to see sammy lee back in a coaching role though but rafa scoffed at the idea even though he is a good friend of lee's

Mr Alan

Ya sound like a child....."i want the league!"

ITS NOVEMEBER!!!!!

Its not quite as simple as that, we are improving every year, so are our rivals, this year, i feel we have made a big jump and think we will be there or there-abouts for the league. Thats all i want, i don't expect miracles.

so, a question for all the Rafa knockers out there, if Rafa can't win us the league---who can?

Guy:Incognito

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ya sound like a child....."i want the league!"

ITS NOVEMEBER!!!!!

Its not quite as simple as that, we are improving every year, so are our rivals, this year, i feel we have made a big jump and think we will be there or there-abouts for the league. Thats all i want, i don't expect miracles.

so, a question for all the Rafa knockers out there, if Rafa can't win us the league---who can?

Where did I scream "I want the league like a child". And bs it's only NOvember, it's November in his 4th season.

"Improving every year" from a base of what 58? points in his first season, not difficut.The following year we finished with 82 , then 68. Wheres the year on year improvement?

Mr Alan

last years points total was not a true indication as the eye was very much off the league the last few weeks with the CL being our main priority.

Right, who would do the job better?

missingtime

I'm not saying that we should out Rafa, I'm disapointed at our performances.

I think we can do a lot better with the players we have than resort to hoofing the ball up the field hoping for the best.

Guy:Incognito

Mr Alan wrote: »

last years points total was not a true indication as the eye was very much off the league the last few weeks with the CL being our main priority.

2 out of 3 years we are massivly off the pace but hey, it's not our fault.?BS.

UTD won the league (and the FA cup) in 99 when thet won the CL. Is a half decent showing in the league too much to ask?

Mr Alan wrote: »

Right, who would do the job better?

I honestly dont know, plus I never said he should be sacked, I said he's not doing a good enough job at the min and needs to improve.

astrofool

Your highest ever points total also came in the season where everything was skewed by very weak teams at the bottom and where the league was over with a few games to go, allowing Liverpool to get closer. A better judgement might be how many games were left when the chance of Liverpool winning the league was 0 (i.e. 3 games left with a 10 point gap etc.). Houllier also managed a high points/place finish in the league and it didn't do him much good.

Of course, who to replace rafa with is an impossible question, there's a few good managers out there at the moment, maybe O'Neill from Villa, Capello, Hitzfeld, Hiddink etc. Liverpool usually give a manager too long in the job, so even if this season is a wash, I reckon rafa will be there for seasons to come and it will always be about "next season".

Mr Alan

I think the players arent doing a good enough job at the minute and need to improve.

i'd get rid of every player in that team (incl. Gerrard,Alonso,Carra,Torres) before i'd get rid of Rafa.

spockety

For the last few years, Liverpool supporters have banged on that despite low points, there was cause for optimism. They were jumped on constantly "say what you like about your form, but the table never lies!".

Now when Liverpool supporters who want to look at the table to argue that there is cause for optimism, it's "say what you like about the table, form never lies!".

I will judge in May, or at the point it becomes mathematically impossible for Liverpool to win the league.

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

I think the players arent doing a good enough job at the minute and need to improve.

i'd get rid of every player in that team (incl. Gerrard,Alonso,Carra,Torres) before i'd get rid of Rafa.

That's the same excuse that some people used for Staunton, when it was clear that the manager wasn't the problem and that the team wasn't functioning correctly as a unit. That's the reason managers are good or not, if the player's are not playing to their ability then that is Rafa's fault and not the players. Getting chopped and changed every week is never good for a player as they never get a run going, when Lampard scored the highest total for a midfielder, he also knew he was playing every week, and performed as such, with Rafa, people are getting dropped no matter what their form is. When player's are playing well, they are always played.

And hey, it's always fun to compare Rafa to da gyaffor.

~Rebel~

We should really be delighted with the points total we have at the moment. We're 6 points off top with just over a quarter of the season gone even though we've been playing rubbish football for a while now.

Im very disappointed with how we've played this year to be honest. Theres a potentially fantastic exciting team there waiting to get out, and i really hope Rafa can find a way to get everything working sooner rather then later.

zing

At least the injury to Masch isn't serious..
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/N157509071030-1311.htm

And both Torres & Agger could be back in a couple of weeks

Chardee MacDennis

Ste are ye kidding? i wish people would give it a rest, if by the END of the season we havent performed again the board will examine the situation. there's no point in throwing our toys out of the pram at this stage.

also with rotation we have a better chance of a strong finish then united, chelsea and arsenal as their players may well be dead from playin 38 league games plus every cl game and the business end of the league cup and FA cup, especially since they never drop anyone..

will you all please just get a grip

(btw not just directed at Stekelly, but everyone that's giving out about rafa TEN games into the season)

The upsetting thing is I would say most of you think it's harsh to sack Jol & Mourinho at this stage of the season.

Mr Alan

Astrofool; you must be ****ing demented if you are comparing stan to rafa, Rafa could manage any team in the world, Stan couldnt manage his arse from his elbow.

I agree with you to an extent that the manager is responsible for gettin the best out of the players, but when Gerrard,Mascherson,Sissoko cant pass a ball 10 yards-i draw the line. Players need to step up to the task, start playing like they were at the start of the year. Need to get Torres, Agger and Alonso back, then we'll put together a run and everyone here and on sky can shut the **** up

marius

spockety wrote: »

I will judge in May, or at the point it becomes mathematically impossible for Liverpool to win the league.

So......march then

Guy:Incognito

Call_me_al wrote: »

Ste are ye kidding? i wish people would give it a rest, if by the END of the season we havent performed again the board will examine the situation. there's no point in throwing our toys out of the pram at this stage.

also with rotation we have a better chance of a strong finish then united, chelsea and arsenal as their players may well be dead from playin 38 league games plus every cl game and the business end of the league cup and FA cup, especially since they never drop anyone..

will you all please just get a grip

(btw not just directed at Stekelly, but everyone that's giving out about rafa TEN games into the season)

The upsetting thing is I would say most of you think it's harsh to sack Jol & Mourinho at this stage of the season.

Utd and Chelsea have managed to performe consistantly from Aug - May the last 3 season while Rafa has been in charge. Both got to the CL semi's and FA cup final last year. So we played 1 game more than them in the CL ( 2 weeks after the season finished). Our "highest ever" points finish hasnt resulted in finishing above either.

Mr Alan

we finished a point behind Utd season before last.

missingtime

Look, we know we have a great finish to the end of the season but it doesn't really matter if we have a poor start.

OK this season we started well, got a bit lucky and a bit unlucky too.

But the point I am making is that we are playing piss poor and its really really annoying as Rafa - or the players - do not seem to be trying to fix it.

Guy:Incognito

Mr Alan wrote: »

we finished a point behind Utd season before last.

The season we got knocke dout of the CL early? and what prize did we get for upping our game for 1 season and finishing 3rd?

We should'nt have to get knocked out of other comps to get a league run going. The earliest we can be out of all 3 cups is Jan, I'd like to be wrong but I doubt we'll be in serious contention by then. Even if we are, theres nothimg to suggest we can go on and win it.



As a matter of interest, what did the league look like at this stage the season before last?

Mr Alan

I give up.

All this negativity is wrecking my head. Probably coming from the same sort of fans who'd leave Anfield early to miss the traffic, sing **** soccer AM chants etc etc.

All i can say is i hope that you're proven very wrong and all hang your head in shame for doubting Rafa

missingtime

Mr Alan wrote: »

I give up.

All this negativity is wrecking my head. Probably coming from the same sort of fans who'd leave Anfield early to miss the traffic, sing **** soccer AM chants etc etc.

All i can say is i hope that you're proven very wrong and all hang your head in shame for doubting Rafa

Ah now. I'm a huge liverpool fan but you have to admit it is incredibly frustrating when we are playing **** football with the players we have at our disposal.

Ok each year we have had different bunch of players come and go and I think that unless something drastic happens we should really cut the spending (apart from a CB) which would give the team a chance to settle.