Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

Chardee MacDennis

mayordenis wrote: »

i agree we can't really fault pepe

ok 8!

Chardee MacDennis

Guthrie is playing quite well for bolton against west ham. good to see as he's a bit unlucky that he came through at a time when we are so strong in midfield.

Dont be at yourself

We're still just 6 points off top and unbeaten, despite having a tough time with injuries, a difficult run of games and players off-form. We've had a better start than ever before, and considering that it usually takes us until December to hit form, we're well positioned for a title race.

It's a huge improvement on last season, and I can't understand half the things being said here. Do people actually want Rafa to go??

Skittlebrau

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

It's a huge improvement on last season

This is the key point for me. Before the season started the majority of people on here said an improvement is exactly what they wanted. Now it's like everyone expects us to be running away with the league.

I'm happy with the improvement so far.

Bounty Hunter

I can't understand half the things being said here. Do people actually want Rafa to go??

some do, these people exist within ever clubs fan base though. I go to a number of sites to check on Aston Villa news from time to time and there are loads of MON out threads. Its sheer stupidity IMO

Before the season started the majority of people on here said an improvment is exactly what they wanted

this is true but there is an arguement to be made that prehaps other sides traditionally below them are improving quicker than liverpool. Although Torres and Aggers injuries have really hurt liverpools start as far as im concerned and meant that the unbeaten run has consisted of too many draws.

~Rebel~

Skittlebrau wrote: »

This is the key point for me. Before the season started the majority of people on here said an improvment is exactly what they wanted. Now it's like everyone expects us to be running away with the league.

I'm happy with the improvment so far.

Any problems this year for me have nothing to do with the points total though. Im grand and happy with the points (would prefer more, but we're still in touch and thats all that matters).

What im bothered about is the football. Lets face it, we look pretty average. I know it could just be a patch, but its really stretching on, and even the simple things are horrendously poorly executed at times. I know, injuries etc, but nearly every player selected the last few weeks is capable of putting in better performances then they have been.

If we were on the same points but playing decent football, id be happy out. Still, its early enough days yet. If it went another 5 or 6 prem games with this underperformance (regardless of points picked up) then id start to really worry about something being rotten in the state of Anfield. Hopefully we can up our game for ManU and then keep it up after.

Skittlebrau

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

this is true but there is an arguement to be made that prehaps other sides traditionally below them are improving quicker than liverpool.

There's also an argument to be made that it's easier to make an average side in to a good side than it is to make a good side in to an excellent one.

PHB

It's an improvement on last season, is it a big one?
Last season after 11 games you had 17 points, this season you have 21. 4 point improvement isn't a huge deal, hell it could be just down to a bit of luck.

raven136

A poxy draw with Chelsea and then a draw with Arsenal,a blackburn team who are always hard to beat,a merseyside derby win and a draw against Pompey.Those results are good and nothin to be worried about.

The only downsides have been spurs and birmingham games. We should be upset about them but as stated previously the team was good enough to win.

Its only 11 games in and we have already played 5 teams expected to be in the top 8(pompey,everton,blackburn,chelsea,arsenal)and are still unbeaten.
Factor in our next 4 fixtures,Fulham,Newcastle,Bolton and Reading before united at home and come mid december the table could tell a different story.

A fully fit trio of Agger,Alonso and Torres will make a big difference.

Mr Alan

PHB: it could just be down to luck? dont be so ridiculous. Liverpool fans wanted an improvement in the league this year, now we are 4 points better off a quarter into the season, so going on that over the course of the season we could concievably increase our points tally by 16, which would in turn close a 21 point gap last year, to 5 points this year. And thats without hitting a major patch of form, which, as much as you like to tell yourself, won't happen, has happened every season under Rafa.

You like to put that down to us being out of the title race, because it suits your argument and also allows you to put a cheap shot in at Liverpool fans, but in reality, its because of Rafa rotation policy-this is the goal of it after all. You also like to say that when it comes down to a run in if we are still in the title race, we wont be able to perform because we wont be used to the pressure of every game being so important....but surely that is when we would come into our own? Rafa being regarded by many as the best cup manager around (CL), and capable of winning any one off game?

Agger-Alonso-Torres back in two weeks, then the fun begins, lets start with beating you lot in December

Cyrus

Post of the week so far

C'Mon the POOL!

machiavellianme

+1
and most importantly

HARRYs already back

event

is that guthrie lad still on liverpools books?

looks a good wee player

though how many penalties will ye get away with this year?

Mr Alan

Yea, guthrie is still ours, looks an excellent little player, shame he may never get a good shot with us though.

And as for the penalties? I honestly think that one with Carra at the weekend would have been very harsh if it was given, i'll except that may be my bias clouding my judgement BUT, i still think it would have been very harsh.

Skittlebrau

event wrote: »

though how many penalties will ye get away with this year?

Is that in relation to something specific or just a general trollish comment?

mike65

Danny Guthrie is on a seaons loan.

Mike.

podge018

Skittlebrau wrote: »

Is that in relation to something specific or just a general trollish comment?

I'd say it's in relation to Carragher getting away with 3 decent penalty shouts in the last 3 league games.

I'd rate them as such.

v Everton - penalty
v Arsenal - no penalty
v B'brun - penalty but harsh.

Skittlebrau

podge018 wrote: »

I'd say it's in relation to Carragher getting away with 3 decent penalty shouts in the last 3 league games.

I'd rate them as such.

v Everton - penalty
v Arsenal - no penalty
v B'brun - penalty but harsh.

Yeah but the way it was worded makes it sound like Liverpool are getting special treatment or something. Every team gets some borderline decisions in every game. That's just football.

Jesus Wept

podge018 wrote: »

I'd say it's in relation to Carragher getting away with 3 decent penalty shouts in the last 3 league games.

I'd rate them as such.

v Everton - penalty
v Arsenal - no penalty
v B'brun - penalty but harsh.

At first I thought it would of being harsh.

But in reality, you can't have your arms that high.

Mr Alan

in reality, you cant stretch for the ball like he was doing, and keep your hands by your side.

redspider

Well, once again, Liverpool fail to deliver what many of the fans expect from them. Blackburn are a good team though, so a draw is a reasonable result and not the end of the world. But its not a result of a title-winning team.

What was dissapointing for me was the lack of bite up-front, and the lack of ambition in Rafa's formation with just playing one up front, as in Kuyt. He had a poor game and messed up quite a few chances. I dont think he is at all comfortable being the 'target' man. Torres is much better at it and is more potent of course when in a 4-4-2. It looked as if Rafa had an eye on mid-week in the CL. It is more important of course but is the CL a lost cause? Time will tell. Blackburn deserved a goal perhaps, but so did we, do it was a fair result I thought.

As for the CL, I think it will be a big ask now. I am not confident and do not expect 3 wins. If Liverpool fails to qualify from the group stage, and it is on the cards, athat means a loss of money as well. And as we know, money brings success, which in turn brings money, etc, so it will be a dent.

One question for Liverpool fans, dare we mention it, but it looks as if Liverpool could easily be playing for the 4th berth this season in the league. Is there a chance that Liverpool could lose out? Are we gonna have one of 'those' seasons? It dont think (and hope) it wont happen, but at the moment 4th/5th place looks more likely than 1st/2nd.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

We're still just 6 points off top and unbeaten, despite having a tough time with injuries, a difficult run of games and players off-form. We've had a better start than ever before, and considering that it usually takes us until December to hit form, we're well positioned for a title race. It's a huge improvement on last season, and I can't understand half the things being said here. Do people actually want Rafa to go??

> It's a huge improvement on last season

I dont think its a huge improvement. Time will tell if it will be an improvement at all. Any improvement is far from a sure thing.

In terms of winning the league, a large improvement was needed, and that does not look like its happening. My gut feeling, as of last week, is that Liverpool wont win the league and the draw v Blackburn was another step in that direction. I will be happy with a 4th, because 5th is a disaster.

> Do people actually want Rafa to go??

No, I dont want him to go right now. But I do think that this season looks more like a 'rebuilding' season than one building on the back of the season before and going that bit better. New players are in the mix, too many perhaps: Torres, Voronin, Benayoun, Babel, and the "established" players arent there that long, Kuyt, Crouch, Pennant. That's the whole attack line. We may have to write this season off at some point, as just one of those below par. But then next season, that may be Rafa's last, if the results and way of playing are similar. Liverpool are new in that we have new owners. They may decide to change at the end of this season, if there are no trophies. Ironically, a win in the Uefa Cup could 'save' Rafa's neck in such a scenario, or an FA Cup or a League (Carling) Cup. But I would be willing to give Rafa this season and next to deliver whatever he can.

Redspider

Mr Alan

redspider wrote: »

Blackburn are a good team though, so a draw is a reasonable result and not the end of the world. But its not a result of a title-winning team.

So Chelsea and Arsenal are not title winning teams?

mike65

Wining a "tin cup" should not distract the board if the league campaign is a failure - ie missing top 4.

Mike.

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

Wining a "tin cup" should not distract the board if the league campaign is a failure - ie missing top 4.

I don't think its at this stage yet I am still very confidant we will easily be in the top 4.

mike65

Okay Now I'm Worried!

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez explains his decision to leave Peter Crouch on the bench against Blackburn Rovers.

Crouch was expected to start the game after his performance against Arsenal, and in the absence of Fernando Torres, but Rafa decided to play Dirk Kuyt upfront on his own.

"Sometimes when players play 20 minutes or half an hour, they are more important for the team, At the end we were more dangerous for three reasons. They were more tired, Harry is a player who can beat players in a wide area and also because we had Crouch.

"So they are the three reasons why we had more options to attack. We were playing with the same idea, just with different players and different qualities.

"Harry was beating players, but Ryan Babel and Yossi Benayoun tend to go inside. With those, you don't need a target man who can play in the air, But with a winger like Harry or players like Gerrard and Finnan, who can cross, you need a player who is good in the air.

"Harry couldn’t play from the beginning, but when he came on his impact was very important for us and Crouch was the same.

"Maybe from the beginning would have been different because they were working hard between the lines and in the middle. We knew they were really dangerous in the middle, but when they were tired, we had more chances.

"Crouch is a target man, so we could play more long balls for him and win the second balls. In the first half, we had to do it with ability on the ground, so it's different.

"You could talk about any player who didn't play, Voronin or Lucas, the same with Arbeloa and Aurelio. People will talk and talk, but creating five chances is enough to win this game"

"Is Crouch better as an impact player? He could be. Some players are like that," added Benitez.

Mike.

redspider

Mr Alan wrote: »

So Chelsea and Arsenal are not title winning teams?

Dont look at the Blackburn result in isolation, but in the context of our overall results. For example, we've also had:

Liverpool 2-2 Tottenham
Liverpool 0-0 Birmingham
Portsmouth 0-0 Liverpool

Whereas Arsenal have had:
Tottenham 1-3 Arsenal

and both Chelsea and Arsenal have come to Anfield and drawn!

Lverpool have to play catch-up to win the league. They didnt do that on the weekend and they have no major scalps so far this season. O course its not impossible for us to win the league, all I'm saying is that in my opinion it is unlikely. I would be more than happy if things worked out otherwise ..... believe me .....

Redspider

Mr Alan

I agree that it may be unlikely for us to win the league, after all, Utd were a better team than us last year, and have spent more money than us strenghtening again. So of course its a huge ask for us to win, wat we need to do, is be in contention, i am not arguing that the Birmingham result was bad. BUT it was one bad result, a draw to spurs isnt really that poor, either is one away to portsmouth, after all Utd lost at Frattan park last year, but won the league. Wat we need to do is maintain a title challenge. We are doing that.

Rafa shouldnt have to explain his decisions like he is in the above article

we deserved to win the game on Saturday, we didnt, **** happens. Crouch has been **** anytime he has started this year and that is just the truth of the matter.

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

we deserved to win the game on Saturday, we didnt, **** happens.

not the game I saw - Blackburn were at least as good - Liverpool could have won it but its not the same thing;)

Mr Alan

Blackburn were better first half.
We were better second.
We created 5 good chances during our dominance.
They didnt.
We deserved to win.

Kanney

Torres is back in training according to Sky Sports, sounds good. Too early for Besiktas but not to destroy Fulham.

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

And thats without hitting a major patch of form, which, as much as you like to tell yourself, won't happen, has happened every season under Rafa.

You like to put that down to us being out of the title race, because it suits your argument and also allows you to put a cheap shot in at Liverpool fans, but in reality, its because of Rafa rotation policy-this is the goal of it after all. You also like to say that when it comes down to a run in if we are still in the title race, we wont be able to perform because we wont be used to the pressure of every game being so important....but surely that is when we would come into our own? Rafa being regarded by many as the best cup manager around (CL), and capable of winning any one off game?

Rafa doesn't rotate that much. Jesus christ, you are buying into the hype. He rotates a reasonable amount, perhaps slightly more than Fergie does. Cup pressure and league pressure are totally different things. Getting yourself revved up for a game against Milan Rafa can do, getting yourself revved up against the average teams that you have to beat, and that you know you are better than, every single time, is a lot more difficult.
Rafa hasn't shown that he can do that yet. The league isn't a bunch of one-off games, if that was the case, I think Liverpool would be one of the favorites for the league, it's about a consistancy that Rafa has just never given Liverpool. btw, last season the most wins in a row Rafa got was 4.

The thing about Liverpool is you could draw a chart, a very simple chart, of form when they have a chance in the title race, and form when they've haven't got any chance in the tital race, and you'd notice an absolutely ****ing huge difference in form. Why? Cause while Liverpool can beat the Chelsea's of the world, they can't seem to consistantly beat the Birminghams, Spurs, Portsmouth, Blackburns of the world.

prendy

according to the news torres could be back for CL this week...
hope they dont rush him back.id rather give him another 10 days and make sure he's fit for a long run in the team.

Chardee MacDennis

prendy wrote: »

according to the news torres could be back for CL this week...
hope they dont rush him back.id rather give him another 10 days and make sure he's fit for a long run in the team.

if we can't beat Besiktas at Anfield without Torres it's a bad sign - we've gone from over reliance on Gerrard to over reliance on Nando!

I would much prefer to see him get a few mins against Fulham, then risk him again.

mike65

QFT! If Torres is being rushed back (not matter what language is used) then its worrying. Better to have a fully fit No 1 striker rather than patching him up every week or so.

Mike.

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

Blackburn were better first half.
We were better second.
We created 5 good chances during our dominance.
They didnt.
We deserved to win.

though they did hit the post and the crossbar, and have a strong penalty appeal turned down during their dominance

Mr Alan

PHB wrote: »

Rafa doesn't rotate that much. Jesus christ, you are buying into the hype. He rotates a reasonable amount, perhaps slightly more than Fergie does. Cup pressure and league pressure are totally different things. Getting yourself revved up for a game against Milan Rafa can do, getting yourself revved up against the average teams that you have to beat, and that you know you are better than, every single time, is a lot more difficult.
Rafa hasn't shown that he can do that yet. The league isn't a bunch of one-off games, if that was the case, I think Liverpool would be one of the favorites for the league, it's about a consistancy that Rafa has just never given Liverpool. btw, last season the most wins in a row Rafa got was 4.

The thing about Liverpool is you could draw a chart, a very simple chart, of form when they have a chance in the title race, and form when they've haven't got any chance in the tital race, and you'd notice an absolutely ****ing huge difference in form. Why? Cause while Liverpool can beat the Chelsea's of the world, they can't seem to consistantly beat the Birminghams, Spurs, Portsmouth, Blackburns of the world.

I'm buying into the hype?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? tbh. sometimes i feel like the only one NOT bying into the hype when it comes to rotation etc etc. The hype is not to defend rafas rotation like i am doing, its to criticise it for every single thing that goes wrong. Thats wat EVERYONE in the media has been doing since the season began, now a good chunk of fans are doing the same.

so, you're now arguing that Rafa doesnt rotate that much? on another day, you will quote his rotation as a reason we will never win the league with him. I really dont know what to make of wat you're saying.

I seem to remeber Rafa spear heading huge runs of form with Liverpool, breaking records for hours/games gone without conceding goals etc etc, all this has slipped your memory though. we can do that again, i have no doubt.

Also Rafa has never been able to motivate a team to go on runs to beat lesser teams? you are aware Liverpool is not Rafas first job in management, yea?

Rafa knows how to win leagues, he has already proven that.

We have been without Torres,Alonso,Agger most of the season, that is the equivalent of Utd being without......Vidic,Scholes,Rooney.....Chelsea.....Terry,Lampard,Drogba......Arsenal.....Toure,Fabregas,Van Persie.

Now i am aware the other teams have had injuries, but the fact is-and the only point i'm trying to make-is that when they come back we will be a FAR superior team.

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

We have been without Torres,Alonso,Agger most of the season, that is the equivalent of Utd being without......Vidic,Scholes,Rooney.....Chelsea.....Terry,Lampard,Drogba......Arsenal.....Toure,Fabregas,Van Persie.

Now i am aware the other teams have had injuries, but the fact is-and the only point i'm trying to make-is that when they come back we will be a FAR superior team.

Most of the season??

from 8th match of 18 (don't think any of them were injured prior to this)
note this the match after the Derby game when things went down hill

Portsmouth Alonso/Agger played- Torres rested(assume not injured as played next game in CL)
Porto - Torres played
Reading - Torres played
Wigan - Torres played

hardly most of the season - all 3 were available for nearly 1/2 of the games

Mr Alan

ok apologies, they were available for less than half the season thus far. This effected our form in a massive way, a bigger effect than it should have, and it killed all the confidence that the good start had generated.

Again, i am not doubting that other teams havent had injuries too, just saying ours had a bigger effect on our form. but yet we are still there or there abouts in the title race.

jesus_thats_gre

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa shouldnt have to explain his decisions like he is in the above article

we deserved to win the game on Saturday, we didnt, **** happens. Crouch has been **** anytime he has started this year and that is just the truth of the matter.

Firstly, you are correct, Rafa shouldn't have to explain himself but his is what happens when you have the captain openly undermining him about being subbed like what happened against Everton. Gerard should be hung out to dry for this sorta ****.


As for the second point. Both sides had a number of oppurtunities to win the game. We certainly done enough for 1 goal but we certainly didn't deserve the win by any stretch of the imagination. Blackburn were the better team for the vast majority of the match while we were the better team for the last 10 mins.

lordgoat

Mr Alan wrote: »

Again, i am not doubting that other teams havent had injuries too, just saying ours had a bigger effect on our form.

Due to your squad not being as good as others?
Or due to a manager that changes things a little too often when he has his players fit??
Some other reason??

Rafa knew how to win a league in spain, but this league isa good bit different.

jesus_thats_gre

lordgoat wrote: »

Due to your squad not being as good as others?
Or due to a manager that changes things a little too often when he has his players fit??
Some other reason??

Rafa knew how to win a league in spain, but this league isa good bit different.

Liverpool's run of form was generally good when we had Agger, Alonso and Torres available.

Once 2 out of the 3 got injured, particularly Alonso and Agger, our form took a bit of a dive. The players that we have should be able to provide sufficient cover for Alonso but we are serverly lacking in cover for Agger and have subsequently suffered as a result.

As has been pointed out, those 3 players that are missing make up a major part of what is the spine of our best 11. This cannot be ignored. It is fact of life that this happens in football and it has to be accepted but it is still an important point when attempting to analyse the drop off in our season.

Those players missing are not the sole reason for the drop off in form however. While I agree with rotation in principle, I feel tha Rafa rides his look a little too much and is guilty of making 1 change too many. He would probably even get away with this change if he didn't insist on changing the formation at the same time.

Then there is a few more players who are underperforming. This isn't helping matters at all and it is one of those things that lazy pundits can easily blame on rotation. Hypia has been a liability and it is obvious to me that other players are having to change their game to cover him. This is causing gaps to appear in our defence that just were not occurring when Agger was available.

While Agger was available, I think we conceeded no goals from open play. While Hypia has been stand in for him, we have conceeded a handful of goals that can be directly attributed to errors on his behalf. There has also been 2 or 3 moments of comedy defending that have not been part of Liverpool's play for the past 12 months. Agger missing is a massive deal for us in my opinion.

Also, the composure and options that Alonso offers in the centre of the pitch was blatantly obvious upon his return against Arsenal. We were actually capable of stringing a few passes together and maintaining possession of the ball.

While I am happy with the points tally so for this season, it is the quality of play in the last 5 or 6 matches that has me extremely disappointed. Saying that, in previous season, these are the matches that we would often be loosing. Also, this season, our away form has improved dramatically compared to previous seasons. This has been Liverpool's major shortcoming in recent years. The players that we have been missing though have caused our normally top class home form to drop off somewhat.

The return of Agger very soon will bring to an end the silly goals we have been conceeding. The interview with Rafa a few posts up pretty much sums up how he want to beat the likes of Blackburn away - keep it tight at the back, generate 5 or 6 good chances and win the match 1 nil. Hypia pretty much makes that approach impossible. We are far from out of it and once if we are still within a few points of the top when we come out of this bad run of form, we will be in a very good position to push Arsenal, United and Chelsea all the way.

Mr Alan

lordgoat wrote: »

Due to your squad not being as good as others?
Or due to a manager that changes things a little too often when he has his players fit??
Some other reason??

Some other reason;

Due to the fact that key senior members of our squad all went through periods of poor form at the same time. Carragher,Hypia,Finnan,Gerrard.

I have given Gerrard a lot of stick in the past, but i still see no fault in wat he said after the Everton game, i read it as him saying...I was disappointed i was substituted (no ****?!) and i'll need to have a chat to the manager to find out wat i was doing wrong so i dont repeat it. He even went so far as to say, the substitution won the game as Lucas was central to everything after that.

Also one thing i would fault Rafa for is not bringing in another CB when the heinze deal fell through. He gambled on Agger staying fit and it didn't pay off.

lordgoat

My point is when you have them fit you don't play them. Torres at pompey is a perfect example.

And the players that you have as squad players aren't that great.

Take Aresnal. Cesc injured - Gilberto, Van Persie - Ade/Eduardo.
Man U: Scholes - Anderson. Vidic - Brown - Rooney - Saha -
chelsea. Terry - Ben Haim/Alex. Lampard - Obi, Drogba - Pizzaro

I know aresnal have changed formation to compensate for van persie, actually all three have at times. I just think out of the top 4, liverpool squad is the weakest. And i'm not ttrying to stir ****, just see what people say.

jesus_thats_gre

lordgoat wrote: »

I know aresnal have changed formation to compensate for van persie, actually all three have at times. I just think out of the top 4, liverpool squad is the weakest. And i'm not ttrying to stir ****, just see what people say.

It is a fair enough point that I don't think anyone can argue with it. But it does go back to what people have been arguing on this thread for months. Rafa has been at Liverpool for 3 full seasons. Wenger and Ferguson haven at their respective clubs 10+ years. The Chelsea squad was built with the help of 300 odd million in the space of 2 years. The press, pundits and people keep mentioning how much Rafa has spent in the summer etc and PHB will argue that he was spent as much as Ferguson has in the past 3 years but direct comparisons are unfair and out of touch withe realities of football.

The players Rafa bought in his first 3 years at the club were bought on an extremely tight budget with the goal being to try to compete with the other 3 but make sure you finish in the top 4 in order to get CL football until some major investment comes into the club. I don't think you can judge him based on his purchases during this time.

Yuo can however judge on his purchases that he made in the summer and those than he will make in coming years now that he does have access to the funds that he feels will help win the PL. How he spends the 30 odd million that he wil have in the New Year and the positions he buys for are what will be important - another world class striker, a world class winger and a centre back are what are rumoured to be his targets.

I still maintain that winning the league this season was not a realistic target. Competing with the other 3 with 3 or 4 games being the difference is what I feel could only be realistically expected from the current squad. The expectations to win the league will be present next season though.

To compare them directly with United, Liverpool only now have the funds to compete directly with them in the transfer market. Liverpool have bought what seems to be a world class striker in Torres for £22m. These are the type of players that we need in order to compete on the pitch. United bough Rooney 3 or 4 years ago for £30m this summer signed Tevez for go knows how much. Liverpool are basically 4 or 5 quality signings behind United and it will take at least a year or two of big spending to catch up on that.

lordgoat

That is a fair point but i think football can only be judged in it's time. I don't think you can compare rafa join pool not to when fergie/arsene joined manu/arse. Simply football has moved on. THe fact is you don't have as much time to be a success as you did.

That said i think he's doing a decent job, but his signings will be crucial. How Babel/Lucas/Levia(apologies if names are wrong) will be interesting. Torres will be a success wherever he plays, great buy. I don't understand how he didn't buy a centre half, as it stands i think ye could do with two as sami is in his last season.

mike65

Lucas/Levia is the same chap! (Lucas Levia is his name) Sebastian Leto is another newbie, one who, its seems will take a season to make it if he does.

Mike.

Tusky

lordgoat wrote: »

My point is when you have them fit you don't play them. Torres at pompey is a perfect example.

And the players that you have as squad players aren't that great.

Take Aresnal. Cesc injured - Gilberto, Van Persie - Ade/Eduardo.
Man U: Scholes - Anderson. Vidic - Brown - Rooney - Saha -
chelsea. Terry - Ben Haim/Alex. Lampard - Obi, Drogba - Pizzaro

I know aresnal have changed formation to compensate for van persie, actually all three have at times. I just think out of the top 4, liverpool squad is the weakest. And i'm not ttrying to stir ****, just see what people say.

Agger - Hyypia, Alonso - Mascherano/Lucas, Torres - Crouch.

I dont see that much difference in what you posted above. The squad is good, lacking in cover at CB though.

lordgoat wrote: »

That is a fair point but i think football can only be judged in it's time. I don't think you can compare rafa join pool not to when fergie/arsene joined manu/arse. Simply football has moved on. THe fact is you don't have as much time to be a success as you did.

That said i think he's doing a decent job, but his signings will be crucial. How Babel/Lucas/Levia(apologies if names are wrong) will be interesting. Torres will be a success wherever he plays, great buy. I don't understand how he didn't buy a centre half, as it stands i think ye could do with two as sami is in his last season.

Kind of dissolves your your argument somewhat when you are counting Lucas Leiva as two different players.

~Rebel~

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Liverpool's run of form was generally good when we had Agger, Alonso and Torres available.

Once 2 out of the 3 got injured, particularly Alonso and Agger, our form took a bit of a dive. The players that we have should be able to provide sufficient cover for Alonso but we are serverly lacking in cover for Agger and have subsequently suffered as a result.

As has been pointed out, those 3 players that are missing make up a major part of what is the spine of our best 11. This cannot be ignored. It is fact of life that this happens in football and it has to be accepted but it is still an important point when attempting to analyse the drop off in our season.

Those players missing are not the sole reason for the drop off in form however. While I agree with rotation in principle, I feel tha Rafa rides his look a little too much and is guilty of making 1 change too many. He would probably even get away with this change if he didn't insist on changing the formation at the same time.

Then there is a few more players who are underperforming. This isn't helping matters at all and it is one of those things that lazy pundits can easily blame on rotation. Hypia has been a liability and it is obvious to me that other players are having to change their game to cover him. This is causing gaps to appear in our defence that just were not occurring when Agger was available.

While Agger was available, I think we conceeded no goals from open play. While Hypia has been stand in for him, we have conceeded a handful of goals that can be directly attributed to errors on his behalf. There has also been 2 or 3 moments of comedy defending that have not been part of Liverpool's play for the past 12 months. Agger missing is a massive deal for us in my opinion.

Also, the composure and options that Alonso offers in the centre of the pitch was blatantly obvious upon his return against Arsenal. We were actually capable of stringing a few passes together and maintaining possession of the ball.

While I am happy with the points tally so for this season, it is the quality of play in the last 5 or 6 matches that has me extremely disappointed. Saying that, in previous season, these are the matches that we would often be loosing. Also, this season, our away form has improved dramatically compared to previous seasons. This has been Liverpool's major shortcoming in recent years. The players that we have been missing though have caused our normally top class home form to drop off somewhat.

The return of Agger very soon will bring to an end the silly goals we have been conceeding. The interview with Rafa a few posts up pretty much sums up how he want to beat the likes of Blackburn away - keep it tight at the back, generate 5 or 6 good chances and win the match 1 nil. Hypia pretty much makes that approach impossible. We are far from out of it and once if we are still within a few points of the top when we come out of this bad run of form, we will be in a very good position to push Arsenal, United and Chelsea all the way.

good post

lordgoat

Tusky wrote: »

Agger - Hyypia, Alonso - Mascherano/Lucas, Torres - Crouch.

I dont see that much difference in what you posted above. The squad is good, lacking in cover at CB though.



Kind of dissolves your your argument somewhat when you are counting Lucas Leiva as two different players.

I meant Leto and Lucas. Although i can understand how you'd forget about one of them...


Really?? You think the midfield as good as chelsea's/man u's?? Fair enough.

I'd agree with the Torres Crouch sub, but i think crouch is hard done by. I think he can compliment any of the other strikers ye still only gets ten minutes. Anyways i've said my piece. I still think the squad players liverpool have aren;t up to much. But man u won the league with o shea and fletcher so...

zing

Was watching a bit of the news section on lfc.tv a few mins ago and they reckoned there was a strong chance of Torres at least making the bench tomorrow night. Really don't want to see him rushed back again - in fact I'd prefer him to miss the weekends game & remain on Merseyside for the internationals break