Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

PHB

I'd agree with most of what you said jesus, (although I'm still not sure I buy the Rafa restricted argument but we've had that out already :P) but there are some key differences I'd point out.

First, yes 3 of those players are key to your team, but that raises a couple of questions.
A. Is your central defense good enough?
B. If your central midfield good enough?
C. Is your strikeforce good enough?

I think crazily you can answer no to all of those. Nobody is gona argue Hyypia is a good enough third choice so A.
If you have to depend on Torres, and really suffer without him, are any of Kuyt Crouch or Voronin good enough? IMO they (I really haven't seen that much of Voronin to be honest) are good enough for Liverpool, but at best should be 3rd choice. A strikeforce of Torres/New person/Kuyt/Crouch would be great, but that missing person really brings the thing down a notch.
As for central midfield, it's kinda crazy, but I think the squad isnt good enough there either. If Gerrard isn't playing in central midfield, there's no real creativity there. Rafa really wants to play Gerrard on the right, you can see it, and to some extent, his view has been vindicated by that. If Gerrard can no longer play in the center of the park, only as a behind the striker player or as a right winger, are Alonso-Lucas-Mascherano-Sissoko good enough? I think without Alonso you are seeing the answer. If you take Gerrard out the equation, Liverpools central midfield is good, but not great in terms of depth.

Agger is a huge blow, and there's no denying that Hyypia has been **** and the cause of most of your defensive problems. But, it hasn't been defense that's been your problem, it's been going forward. Against Blackburn you kept it tight at the back, but had **** all going forward. I think you're right, that Liverpool are about 4-5 quality players behind United/Chelsea [I wouldn't say Arsenal cause it's their teamwork that makes them great, not necessarily their players if you know what I mean]

Quality defensive cover at CB and LB.
Ball playing central midfielder
Two wingers
A striker

That said, you might not need to buy all those. If Lucas comes good (which I think he will) you'll be covered for an Alonso injury.
If Babel really ignites you could probably get away with one new top class winger leaving a force of Babel/New Guy/Kewell/[Pennant/Yossi/Leto]

Still though, I think Liverpool are some major money away from getting that extra step up.

---

so, you're now arguing that Rafa doesnt rotate that much? on another day, you will quote his rotation as a reason we will never win the league with him. I really dont know what to make of wat you're saying.

Rafa rotates poorly imo, bad choices. He doesn't rotate though any more than Fergie does to be honest. Most of his rotation this season has been due to injuries, and then some crazy stuff in say the league cup. Fergie rotates quite a bit, although he does tend to do it more in December January than at the start. Both squads will be equally fit towards the end of the year. His rotation isn't what gets the run going.

I seem to remeber Rafa spear heading huge runs of form with Liverpool, breaking records for hours/games gone without conceding goals etc etc, all this has slipped your memory though. we can do that again, i have no doubt.

That's a good year and half ago now. Also, while defense is important, it's never been Liverpools problem and you know this.

Also Rafa has never been able to motivate a team to go on runs to beat lesser teams? you are aware Liverpool is not Rafas first job in management, yea?

Rafa knows how to win leagues, he has already proven that.

Rafa won the league with Valencia with a points tally of 77 points. The Premiership is a totally different ball game these days.
Rafa knows how to win La Liga, very different.

We have been without Torres,Alonso,Agger most of the season, that is the equivalent of Utd being without......Vidic,Scholes,Rooney

Yeh? How about United being without Neville, Carrick, Hargreaves, Ronaldo(3 games), Rooney(4 games), Saha?

You will be a far superior team, no doubt about it. But injuries happen, and the fact of the matter is you don't have the depth to cover for them. Unless you get very lucky in terms of injuries, you won't win the league.

el rabitos

why is this thread all about how well utd are doing compared to liverpool and what liverpool must do to be more like utd. my eyes hurt

copacetic

el rabitos wrote: »

why is this thread all about how well utd are doing compared to liverpool and what liverpool must do to be more like utd. my eyes hurt

+ a million.

Tusky

Saying Liverpool's central midfield isnt good enough is laughable. Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano, Sissoko & Lucas are more than good enough. Only topped my Chelsea in my opinion.

Also - stop harping on about Utd's injuries. This season Liverpool have had injuries to Finnan, Carragher, Agger, Aurleio, Arbeloa, Pennant, Kewell, Gerrard, Alonso & Torres.

Mr Alan

Topped by no one in my opinion, but then thats me

PHB

If you read my post I was talking about how if you talk Gerrard out of the center, the strength isn't there. Gerrard's best position seems to be on the right, or else behind the striker. He's shown against this season the problems with him in a 2 man midfield. If he's not there, which he shouldn't be, without Alonso, well, you can see the difference in the team yourself.

The reason I keep 'harping on' about injuries, is because Liverpool fans such as yourself are ignoring the facts about it. This year United have had injuries to....Scholes(till January), Vidic(2 games), Carrick (for about 4 games), Hargreaves (for about 7 games), Evra (2 games), VDS (1 game), Fletcher (broken leg), and these lot out almost all season so far, Silvestre, Neville, Saha, Park, Foster, Ole (who retired due to them)
The point is, one squad is strong enough to deal with it, one isn't. People can say that those three key players are missing, and that you will get better once they are back (of that I have no doubt), the point is that those players are gona get injured at some point.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

If you read my post I was talking about how if you talk Gerrard out of the center, the strength isn't there. Gerrard's best position seems to be on the right, or else behind the striker. He's shown against this season the problems with him in a 2 man midfield. If he's not there, which he shouldn't be, without Alonso, well, you can see the difference in the team yourself.

So if you take Liverpools two best center midfielders out of the team ...they are weak in that position ? I think thats a crazy point. Gerrard has been going through a bad patch but has scored 3 goals in the last 3 games that he has played in CM. I personally think he is terrible when played in the hole - behind the striker. When Alonso is fit I think he should be played on the right but hes perfectly able to play CM.

Mr Alan

Well Gerrard bossed the centre against Chelsea this year. Cracking game.

I agree with you to an extent about Gerrard, but only if he is having a poor game, if he is playing well he is the best around imo, be it out on the right, in a free role, or in CM.

Question is, can you afford to have him in the CM if he is not playing well or going through a bad run of form, as he was for a few weeks after his injury...answer is? I dont know. Playing alongside Alonso maybe, not so suer about the rest.

Thought Gerrard behind the striker may be the answer, but against Blackburn at the weekend, he didnt start playing well until we went to 442 with him in the middle. Its a conundrum alright.

Alonso-Gerrard.....good to go.
Mascherano-Gerrard....ok if Gerrard is playing well
Sissoko-Gerrard.....not so sure
Lucas-Gerrard....would quite like to see this given a shot actually, was quite impressive against Cardiff last week, went over to the game and the thing i was most looking forward to was Lucas, he didnt disappoint, the boy is class.

Just re-read you post above, the ball playing midfielder you mention i think is already at Anfield, he has long blonde hair and is brazilian lucky us

Mr Alan

Taken from a fan site, i know i posted up a similar article the other week, but i really do think the fans need to get BEHIND rafa, and not get on his back.

Anyone going tomorrow? if so sing it loud and proud....Ra-Ra-Ra-Rafa Benitez!

---

Dont Let The Bastards Grind You Down:

Our lovely national media, eh? “Those foreign bastards are taking all our jobs”, we’re in line for the next batch of “Council bans Christmas – Political Correctness gone mad” columns and now they’re after another “under fire boss” to fill their column inches up. Martin Jol has gone; Mourinho has gone back to sunnier climates whilst past targets Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger are now flavours of the months. This leaves only one man – our very own Rafa Benitez.

This isn’t an article asking for blind faith towards Benitez. He, like every manager I’ve ever known at any club has come under some justified criticism. But this isn’t the place for them. Because for the last three months it’s made my skin crawl every time I’ve picked a paper up or read a website.

We’ve got Stan Collymore (That sane and wonderful footballing minded person). We’ve got Paul Merson (Threw his career away with drugs, ale and gambling. Managerial record … erm, ****e at Walsall). And, Brian Woolnough and various other national hacks. Each one is lining up to write the headline “KOP SAYS: RAFA OUT”.

The last time the media had it in for a manager of ours was Houllier circa 2004. And that was justified because the majority of fans did want him out. But they have started throwing in the words “rotation”, “Gerrard on the right”, and “The fans are getting impatient” at every ****ing opportunity. It’s time to show these ***** that there is no better judge of when a manager’s time is up than us.

I’ve never seen us win a league in my match going life. Frustrating? ****ing right. It hurts to see teams win the league when we’re playing our last game with no real prestige in the game. But this is the feller who brought me, and so many others,to OUR Rome 77. OUR St Etienne. I have been to see my team in two European Cup finals; something that had you asked me three years ago I’d have never thought possible in my life. It’s a phrase that THEY’VE used a lot lately. “Rafa has bought time with two European Cup finals in three years.” Bought time? **** me, is that the same way that Ian Rush probably bought time up front for us by scoring loads of goals.

I’m yet to meet a Red who wants Rafa out. A few will argue with his decisions at times, a few disagree with a few of his buys, which is all part of football. I disagree with some of his decisions; I disagree with some of his buys. But let’s face it; this man has brought us a ****ing lot of happiness in his time here, especially with the ****e he inherited. Constructive criticism? Yes. Wanting to rip your hair out in the heat of the moment? Yes. But it’s imperative our fans don’t follow the lead of other clubs and allow the press’ irrelevant views to cloud our judgement of our manager.

This isn’t intended to try and covert some of our own to start liking Rafa. That’s not needed. But what is needed to show the ***** in the nationals that we back Rafa and they can carry on with their witch hunt, they can carry on with their expert analysis (Even though the cu*ts have no ****ing right to do so as they’ve done **** all in management) but it’s ultimately the FANS who decide.

And from what I can tell, and from what I’m certain, we believe Rafa is the one. Let’s show it, starting tomorrow.

Melion

Going to be a fookin great atmosphere there tomorrow night

Melion

Oh and just for everyone banging on about our midfield.

I think its definitely the strongest in the premiership, probably only bettered by Barca and maybe the 2 Milan teams throughout Europe.

And i dont know why anyone even replies to PHB anymore in this thread, he comes in every day and posts something to try and get a reaction out of us.

Mr Alan

Nah i think its important to have someone like PHBs opinion in here tbh, he can go a bit overboard sometimes, but a lot of his points are valid.
When he goes overboard, it is probably just because he is a little pissed that we got Lucas at 5 million compared to them getting Anderson at 18m (ha ha ha ha )
plus of course there is the whole...18 and 5 thing that has to have him a little jealous.

Night!

Jesus Wept

Melion wrote: »

Oh and just for everyone banging on about our midfield.

I think its definitely the strongest in the premiership, probably only bettered by Barca and maybe the 2 Milan teams throughout Europe.

And i dont know why anyone even replies to PHB anymore in this thread, he comes in every day and posts something to try and get a reaction out of us.

Ah that's just not the case about PHB. He is not a troll ffs.

Peyton Manning

Melion wrote: »

I think its definitely the strongest in the premiership, probably only bettered by Barca and maybe the 2 Milan teams throughout Europe.

Ah come on outta that shite would ya. You honestly think Liverpools midfield is better than Chelsea and Arsenal's? Delusional nonsense. Yes you have a good midfield, but best in the premiership it most certainly is not. Not even in the top 5 in Europe.

Peyton Manning

And Essien is better than any of those you have mentioned. I honestly cant understand how even the most biased of Liverpool fans could think their midfield is stronger than Chelseas.

Melion

Id rate our 5 central midfielders better than Chelsea's.

Melion

Archimedes wrote: »

And Essien is better than any of those you have mentioned. I honestly cant understand how even the most biased of Liverpool fans could think their midfield is stronger than Chelseas.

I forgot about Essien, hence the delete

Melion

Gerrard > Lampard
Alonso > Ballack
Essien > Masch
Lucas > Makelele
Mikel > Sissoko

Peyton Manning

You'd be one of the few in that case.

Essien > All Other Midfielders

I dont mean to sound harsh, but it baffles me that anyone, even the most biased Liverpool fan, could consider their midfield better than Chelseas. I know you guys have a strong midfield - I'll even admit that you slightly edge United in that area but as strong as my hatred for Chelsea is, I cant deny that they have the best midfield in the league.

jesus_thats_gre

It is a pretty fine line as to who has the best central midfield players in the PL.

At the start of this season, I would have been resolute in my assertion that our central midfield was on a par with the best in the PL, if not better. Saying that, their performance so far this season have left alot to be desired and I would defo put them behind United and Chelsea.

If they get past this recent run of poor form, they may gradually move up the rankings again.


Regarding what Liverpool need, I still maintain that they need another quality CB, a world class winger and world class striker. Ater that, it is down to fine tuning.

Dont be at yourself

Regardless of who is better than who, Liverpool's problems are not stemming from midfield - especially when all are fully fit. Alonso is a loss, but it's not his job to score goals or keep clean sheets, and Macherano, Gerrard, Sissoko and Lucas are all more than capable in the position.

The flat-footed centre-back or the mis-firing forwards are more culpable, and with Agger and Torres both on the road to recovery, we should get our form back.

jesus_thats_gre

Melion wrote: »

Gerrard > Lampard
Alonso > Ballack
Essien > Masch
Lucas > Makelele
Mikel > Sissoko

Gerrard > Lampard
Alonso > Ballack
Essien > Masch
Sissoko = Makelele
Mikel > Lucas


Makelele of 2 years ago would have won hands down but he just doesn't have the fitness any longer. Sissoko wins purely on that. Now only if he could return to the form he showed before he nearly lost his eye. Mikel over Lucas purely because Lucas has not played enough to form an opinion. Saying that, I do not rate Mikel at all.

Melion

I really dont think we need another striker, i think Crouch and Torres would be brilliant together if they got a decent run together to get to know each others play. Crouch was excellent last season and all of a sudden he is going to be sold. Voronin will never score 20 goals a season so i dont even know why he was signed in the first place.

And as for Kuyt, his record in Holland speaks for itself, he had a lot of clubs after him and i was delighted when we signed him. I dont think we should criticise his performances this season as he has never got to play the way he did in Holland. How can you criticise him when he has been asked to play wide on the right, totally out of position.

What is it about Rafa playing strikers on the right wing? He destroyed Cisse by playing him out there but at least he had pace, Kuyt doesnt and wont perform out there.

We do need another CB but i dont think its as important as everyone is making out. Jack Hobbs should get a few games to get some experience, we dont need to spend big in this position IMO, why should we spend a lot when Hobbs will be ready next season. Sami is an LFC legend but his lack of pace is really showing this season, he can still read a game as good as ever but just cant get to the ball like he could 4-5 years ago.

I think Carra's performances have slacked this season because he has had Sami beside him and he is being forced to cover the whole of central defence on his own to cover for Sami. Expect our defence and Carra to start performing a lot better once Agger is back.

Melion

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Gerrard > Lampard
Alonso > Ballack
Essien > Masch
Sissoko = Makelele
Mikel > Lucas


Makelele of 2 years ago would have won hands down but he just doesn't have the fitness any longer. Sissoko wins purely on that. Now only if he could return to the form he showed before he nearly lost his eye. Mikel over Lucas purely because Lucas has not played enough to form an opinion. Saying that, I do not rate Mikel at all.

Makelele 2 years ago IMO was the best DM in the world, he changed that position as was stated in this thread a few pages ago. Losing him was the reason Real fell apart for a few years. Sissoko really needs to pull the finger out soon though.

And as much as i hate to say it, Mikel has been immense this year.

jesus_thats_gre

Melion wrote: »

Makelele 2 years ago IMO was the best DM in the world, he changed that position as was stated in this thread a few pages ago. Losing him was the reason Real fell apart for a few years. Sissoko really needs to pull the finger out soon though.

And as much as i hate to say it, Mikel has been immense this year.

I know he would have won hands down, thats what I said!!!

As for Mikel, I am not convinced. Will keep an eye for him so though.

Melion

Id argue he has been better than Essien for chelsea this year, just my own opinion though.

~Rebel~

I've been thinking, and i kind of wish we had kept Pongolle rather then getting in Voronin. I really like Voronin, but he's just so similer to Kuyt. I dont blame Pongolle wanting to leave to get football, but the way things have turned out he would have gotten a fair bit. He also provides a little something different to Kuyt and Crouch in quick tricky feet and pace. Still think he deserved one proper chance rather then the odd short appearance followed by getting benched, even if he impressed.

I'm just not sure of the logic of bringing in a very similar player to Kuyt, even on a free. Though i suppose if Crouch was playing better, Voro wouldn't have gotten so much game time.

Melion

I was really dissapointed when we lost Sinama. He was a great little player, changed a lot of games when he came on. Looked good for Recreativo last night too

PHB

Mr Alan wrote: »

Alonso-Gerrard.....good to go.
Mascherano-Gerrard....ok if Gerrard is playing well
Sissoko-Gerrard.....not so sure
Lucas-Gerrard....would quite like to see this given a shot actually, was quite impressive against Cardiff last week, went over to the game and the thing i was most looking forward to was Lucas, he didnt disappoint, the boy is class.

Yeh I'd agree with thatto be honest. Lucas does look a talent. That's the thing though, if Alonso isn't fit, then Gerrard in the middle is problematic, in which case you really gotta push him up to second striker or to the right. In which case, if Alonso is injured, you're central midfield is either
Mascherano-Sissoko
Sissoko-Lucas
Lucas-Mascherano

Of that I think it's obvious to all that Lucas-Mascherano is the best, but the point is without Alonso you're central mifield goes from being undoubtably one of the best in the premiership, to not anywhere near as good. In which case, you gotta ask yourself, do you not need somebody else there who can play like Alonso? Maybe Lucas can do that, but it'll take a while before he can play at the levels that Alonso can play at (not last season, but this season while playing and the season before that)

Regarding what Liverpool need, I still maintain that they need another quality CB, a world class winger and world class striker. Ater that, it is down to fine tuning.

Yeh, I'd say that's right. Although I don't think they need another quality CB, just somebody who is young and a talent. Another Agger.

Green Giant

PHB wrote: »

Yeh I'd agree with thatto be honest. Lucas does look a talent. That's the thing though, if Alonso isn't fit, then Gerrard in the middle is problematic, in which case you really gotta push him up to second striker or to the right. In which case, if Alonso is injured, you're central midfield is either
Mascherano-Sissoko
Sissoko-Lucas
Lucas-Mascherano

Of that I think it's obvious to all that Lucas-Mascherano is the best, but the point is without Alonso you're central mifield goes from being undoubtably one of the best in the premiership, to not anywhere near as good. In which case, you gotta ask yourself, do you not need somebody else there who can play like Alonso? Maybe Lucas can do that, but it'll take a while before he can play at the levels that Alonso can play at (not last season, but this season while playing and the season before that)



Yeh, I'd say that's right. Although I don't think they need another quality CB, just somebody who is young and a talent. Another Agger.

If it's young, talented centre-backs we're after, we could do a lot worse than Miguel Veloso of Sporting Lisbon. He can also play a defensive midfield role and I've seen him a few times for Sporting and Portugal's U-21s. Definitely a hot prospect

Peyton Manning

The thing is, Liverpool may not be able to spend much in January now...

Business commitments are expected to keep Tom Hicks and George Gillett from Liverpool's Champions League tie with Besiktas, although it is hard to imagine what engagements could be more pressing to the American billionaires than events at Anfield and in the city's council chambers today. The deal designed to bring their bold ambitions for the club towards reality perhaps?

It was the day after Liverpool slumped to defeat in Istanbul to fall bottom of Group A when Hicks first revealed that he and Gillett were close to finalising a finance deal to pay for a new 60,000-seater stadium on Stanley Park and that costs for the project had risen to at least £400m. "The deal will be completed within 30 days," said the Texan in London on October 25.

The package being sought is a £500m loan to cover the escalating costs of the new stadium and refinance the £298m the Americans borrowed from the Royal Bank of Scotland to buy the club this year. It has raised suspicions that Liverpool's new owners are the Glazers by stealth and that, far from the benevolent custodians who were welcomed with open arms in contrast to their compatriots at Manchester United, they have in fact sunk Liverpool into serious debt without dipping into their personal fortunes. The final answer rests on the success of their revised stadium proposals, which go before the city council's planning committee today, and Rafael Benítez's ability to sustain success on the field before the project opens in 2010.

Liverpool will miss out on £14m if they fail to reach the knockout stages of the Champions League. Small beer in the grand scheme of £400m stadiums, Benítez said yesterday, although his transfer budget may well be the first casualty of the financial hit once the £500m loan and the £20m annual interest repayments have to be met. "When you talk about a £400m stadium and the amount you get for reaching the final, then an extra £10m is not a big difference," said the Liverpool manager. "We want to win because we want to win trophies, not because we want to save the financial situation."

The Anfield club received about £23m for reaching last season's Champions League Final from Uefa and made approximately £40m for winning the competition in 2005. Gillett and Hicks bought the club with a Royal Bank of Scotland loan that is due to be repaid in 2009. It was always their intention to borrow to build the stadium, although now they are seeking to repay their payments on the club through a long-term loan their claims that they would not saddle Liverpool with debt are debatable.

The Americans intended to borrow from Goldman Sachs, in a deal arranged by Liverpool's financial adviser, Robert Tilliss, until the financiers responded to the global credit crunch by asking the sports tycoons to invest more of their own money into the refinancing package. With his employers reluctant to do so, Tilliss has held talks with other financial institutions, including Wachovia and Morgan Stanley. The deal is yet to be finalised but, given current interest rates, the Americans are likely to be refinancing under worse terms than they received from RBS.

A £500m loan is 16 times Liverpool's operating profits for 2007, which are expected to be about £30m thanks to the Champions League run last season. United's debt is eight times their operating profit although, unlike Gillett and Hicks, the Glazers borrowed to buy the club and not to build a new money-making stadium. Arsenal provide the fairest comparison with the Americans' plans for Liverpool, with the move to the Emirates Stadium raising turnover from £37m in 2006 to £200m in 2007 and doubling their matchday revenue from £44.1m to £90.6m over the same period. It is this framework Liverpool's co-chairmen hope to replicate, though sustaining success on the field before 2010 is crucial to their plans.

"Whether Liverpool are playing Championship football or Champions League football next season they will likely to be paying over £20m in interest payments each year following the expected restructuring. This makes the revenue from the Champions League and continued qualification even more important," said Jason Laws, a reader in finance at Liverpool John Moores University. "Once they move to the new stadium their match day revenues have the potential to increase substantially, as have Arsenal's following the move to the Emirates, and to such a degree that those interest repayments should not be a major problem."

http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200708/story/0,,2206007,00.html

Peyton Manning

Green Giant wrote: »

If it's young, talented centre-backs we're after, we could do a lot worse than Miguel Veloso of Sporting Lisbon. He can also play a defensive midfield role and I've seen him a few times for Sporting and Portugal's U-21s. Definitely a hot prospect

Not much hope of Veloso going to Liverpool either, considering United have a first option agreement with Lisbon and they've been linked with him lately, plus Im sure he would have close ties with Nani and Ronaldo and because of the whole Portugese speaking contingent that is forming at United.

machiavellianme

Why are we being linked with Kenwyne Jones for 12million? Is it purely nonsense that the BBC and mirror have made up or are we really going for another average striker?

PHB

I think he'd be an interesting player to get. Seems to be like a Drogba. I always thought Liverpool could use a player like Drogba cause of how they play, so maybe Rafa is thinking the same thing.

machiavellianme

I'd agree about using a poacher player like Drogba but Jones seems expensive with that price tag. Surely someone of similar ilk might be available for cheaper?

Peyton Manning

Kenwyn Jones for 12 MILLION? That is ridiculous.

Cyrus

Archimedes wrote: »

The thing is, Liverpool may not be able to spend much in January now...



http://football.guardian.co.uk/championsleague200708/story/0,,2206007,00.html

quite the expert on liverpools financial situation etc, sure you arent a closet pool fan

rafa has been told he has money to spend, how do you know better?

Cyrus

Archimedes wrote: »

Kenwyn Jones for 12 MILLION? That is ridiculous.

really? paying 12m for the strong front running striker of an average club

hmmmm who else did that oh yeah fergie did when he bought saha :rolleyes:

who was a lot older than jones is now (i know he was more proven at prem level but he was older and had already failed with newcastle)

Mr Alan

Gerrard > Lampard
Alonso > Ballack
Mascherano = Mikel (on form i think Masch is better)
Sissoko < Essien
Lucas = Makalele (Lucas only just beginning, Maka ending his career)

I'd honestly think our cental midfield comes out tops over Chelseas.

Don't know wat to make of Kenwyn Jones rumours tbh. Strange one?!

Cyrus

well if crouch is going for 8 and we can get him for 12 (i doubt it by the way but anyway) then why not, not costing much, seems to be able for this level, and unlike crouch can attack a ball in the air and has pace, much more suited to playing as a lone striker than any of the others aswell

PHB

Cyrus wrote: »

really? paying 12m for the strong front running striker of an average club

hmmmm who else did that oh yeah fergie did when he bought saha :rolleyes:

who was a lot older than jones is now (i know he was more proven at prem level but he was older and had already failed with newcastle)

Indeed. Saha may not be world class, but he is an essential part of the United fulcrum. Jones could be similar. I think him and Torres up front would be better than any of the current partnerships.

redspider

The new stadium, the flow of money, etc will have a bearing on the football on the field. It will be a fine balancing act, as the business part must borrow and spend to fund the new stadium. An increased capacity will (should) bring in more revenues, but it is a drain on resources and will remain so for many years to come. That drain will reduce the effectiveness of the football on the pitch, which if impaired can have a negative effect on the money coming in, etc. Liverpool will have debt in common with Arsenal and Man Utd who are both paying off debt, but its the scale of debt which is the key thing.

Once Liverpool was sold to new owners, anything could happen with the club in terms of its finances going forward no matter what type of assurances or intentions were given.

> the new 60,000-seater stadium - costs risen to at least £400m.
> The package being sought is a £500m loan to cover the escalating costs of the new stadium and refinance the £298m the Americans borrowed to buy the club

500m is a lot of debt for any business, but it is payable, as long as the business continues to produce good returns. That is doable but it is reliant on what Liverpool do on the pitch, CL runs, etc. It is by no means a foregone conclusion and the years ahead (perhaps 5-10) could be a rocky one for Liverpool. The finances are definitely something to watch. The escalated costs of the stadium are a worry.

What's also a potential large banana skin in all of this is the risk that Uefa will cut back the CL berths in England from 4 to 3. That would likely to mean more pain for Liverpool than for the other 3, as things stand and look for the future. And 4 into 3 'doesnt go', so something has to give.


The first step to paying off the debts is a win tonight v Besiktas. I am not confident, and I'm sure the players will feel uneasy as well in a must win game. Liverpool clearly have the capability to do it, but dangers lurk such as a fast break and a one-on-one with Hyypia .... etc. I think that Liverpool will be in the Uefa Cup before long, even if we win tonight .....

Redspider

Mr Alan

God you're so positive, you're probably one of the fans who would have left the attaturk at half time, correct?

Read an interview with Rafa last night where he discussed the financial implications of Liverpool getting knocked out of the CL, basically he said there wouldnt really be any, that we have reached two finals in the last three years so in the "plan" on monies we would take in from European competition, we are way ahead of where we expected to be.

I think we have a good chance of getting out of the group. But i don't think it would be the end of the world if we didnt.

Plus a Uefa cup final AGAINST Everon IN Manchester would be EXCELLENT!

Cyrus

i disagree, if we win tonight (and i expect us to do so comfortably) and results go our way in france (porto draw or loss) then i expect us to get throught especially given that by the time we play marseille they should be thro

Peyton Manning

Mr Alan wrote: »

God you're so positive, you're probably one of the fans who would have left the attaturk at half time, correct?

Read an interview with Rafa last night where he discussed the financial implications of Liverpool getting knocked out of the CL, basically he said there wouldnt really be any, that we have reached two finals in the last three years so in the "plan" on monies we would take in from European competition, we are way ahead of where we expected to be.

I think we have a good chance of getting out of the group. But i don't think it would be the end of the world if we didnt.

Plus a Uefa cup final AGAINST Everon IN Manchester would be EXCELLENT!

Actually thats not entirely correct. Its not that youve got enough cash from previous years. What he was saying, and is quoted in that Guardian article, is that prize money from the Champions League would amount to 10 million and that it wouldnt even matter when you compare that against 500 million with 20 million in interest each year.

Mr Alan

Archimedes wrote: »

Actually thats not entirely correct. Its not that youve got enough cash from previous years. What he was saying, and is quoted in that Guardian article, is that prize money from the Champions League would amount to 10 million and that it wouldnt even matter when you compare that against 500 million with 20 million in interest each year.

i thought wat he was saying was that, the money being quoted that we would miss out on is nowhere near what we would miss out on, that the figures being quoted go to the finalists only, and only two teams will get that kind of money, us being one of them the last two years?

anyway, my point remains the same, financially its implications arent really any massive deal according to the Raffatullah

Peyton Manning

Im not so sure, have a read of this paragraph again.

Liverpool will miss out on £14m if they fail to reach the knockout stages of the Champions League. Small beer in the grand scheme of £400m stadiums, Benítez said yesterday, although his transfer budget may well be the first casualty of the financial hit once the £500m loan and the £20m annual interest repayments have to be met. "When you talk about a £400m stadium and the amount you get for reaching the final, then an extra £10m is not a big difference," said the Liverpool manager. "We want to win because we want to win trophies, not because we want to save the financial situation."

It sounds as if he's saying if they went on to win the thing, it would really only scratch the surface of debt. Maybe Im wrong.

Mr Alan

more media scare mongering imo....everything Rafa is saying is positive, the journalist writing the article is filling in the gaps with talk of cut transfer budgets-spiralling debts-missing out on CL fortunes etc etc, nothing from Rafas lips suggest anything other than it not being a massive deal (financially) if we dont get out of the group

mike65

For Mr Alan

Mike.

Mr Alan

mike65 wrote: »

For Mr Alan

Mike.

Cheers Mike

not sure if you're taking the piss but its appreciated anyway! a bit of positivity is needed sometimes.

its about SUPPORTING a team, not getting on their backs constantly.

thanks again