Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

copacetic

Kulgan wrote: »

So its still panning out like this above all those goals mean we are fairly safe with just a 1-0 victory versus Marseille.

agreed, but if they had beat porto would would have been in much better shape and could have even dropped points and gone through. ah well..

Guy:Incognito

el rabitos wrote: »

riise did himself no favours. got some well deserved boos there towards the end. gloryhound.

I disagree, it was an 8-0 win where the captain himself took a wild shot or two. Riise did well, being directly involved in goals 2 and 3 (iirc) and even though he gave the ball away, I'd argue when he got it in the first have it was shoved to him out wide with not 1 player showing for him and expecting him to take on 2 and 3 players at a time.

It's very easy for players to make themselves available and play the ball about at 4, 5, 6 nil up. Riise was graftign from the start and could easily haev had 2 goals himself (the header was a good one but the shot that led to Benayoun tap in should have been better placed)

el rabitos

Stekelly wrote: »

I disagree, it was an 8-0 win where the captain himself took a wild shot or two. Riise did well, being directly involved in goals 2 and 3 (iirc) and even though he gave the ball away, I'd argue when he got it in the first have it was shoved to him out wide with not 1 player showing for him and expecting him to take on 2 and 3 players at a time.

It's very easy for players to make themselves available and play the ball about at 4, 5, 6 nil up. Riise was graftign from the start and could easily haev had 2 goals himself (the header was a good one but the shot that led to Benayoun tap in should have been better placed)

meh, dissagree, we had good momentum and he had alot of space to move forward and had alot of options for the pass but he blasted it. sick of him doing it in the premiership and he was rightly booed for it.

Tusky

copacetic wrote: »

apologies, but either way we lost 1-0 to marseille, so if we beat them we can't lose on any of the comparisons up to overall goal diff

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group
matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;

b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question;
c) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
d) superior goal difference from all group matches played;
e) higher number of goals scored;
f) higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question,
as well as its association, over the previous five seasons (see paragraph

Good point. So basically if we beat Porto & Marseille we are through unless Marseille can match our goal dif when they play Besiktas(assuming they win).

Chardee MacDennis

so to qualify we just need two convincing wins. not gonna be easy but we can definitely do it.

PHB

Arebola was a real threat down the right I thought.

To qualify you just need two 1-0's, which is entirely likely.

whatawaster

with tonights performance in mind, I would play the following team on Saturday.

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa

---

Carragher

---

Hyypia

---

Aurelio

Benayoun

---

Mascherano

---

Gerrard

---

Kewell

---

Crouch

---

Babel

---

Riise even managed to look awful tonight, he's served the club well but I won't shed a tear if he never plays for us again. Babel will be full of confidence so i'd give him a run out. If Kewell is not fit i'd play Voronin up front and Babel on the left. I've a feeling Finnan will be back though, no real complaints there - Arbeloa at left back. Aurelio's passing impressed me tonight though.

copacetic

Tusky wrote: »

Good point. So basically if we beat Porto & Marseille we are through unless Marseille can match our goal dif when they play Besiktas(assuming they win).

bang on. no an easy task still but if we go into the last game needing a win to go through we can't complain...

PHB

It'd be harsh to drop Voronin, I thought he was really good. Integral to the victory imo. It's not the later goals that really matter, it was those early goals that are the type you need this weekend, and Voronin did great work for the 2nd.

mike65

I reckon Rafa must have seen how Finnan has been off the pace a bit lately. Would'nt shocked to see the same back 4 against Fulham.

Mike.

Mental Mickey

whatawaster wrote: »

with tonights performance in mind, I would play the following team on Saturday.

---

Reina

---

Arbeloa

---

Carragher

---

Hyypia

---

Aurelio

Benayoun

---

Mascherano

---

Gerrard

---

Kewell

---

Crouch

---

Babel

---

Riise even managed to look awful tonight, he's served the club well but I won't shed a tear if he never plays for us again. Babel will be full of confidence so i'd give him a run out. If Kewell is not fit i'd play Voronin up front and Babel on the left. I've a feeling Finnan will be back though, no real complaints there - Arbeloa at left back. Aurelio's passing impressed me tonight though.

I'd keep Aurelio at left back and I'd put Finnan in at left full. Arbeloa doesn't do it for me at all. He did have a good game tonight, but tbh, they weren't up against much. That team didn't travel well........? We played well, but I still think Rafa will be under pressure to deliver the goods on the domestic front(aka Premier League)?

redspider

Liverpool 8-0 Besiktas
Crouch 19
Benayoun 32
Benayoun 53
Benayoun 56
Gerrard 69
Babel 79
Babel 81
Crouch 89


That's more like it. Is there a 'but'? Well I think there is. The crowd had that feeling too. Even at 1-0 up, the crowd was nervous, but the 2nd goal helped settle things and the 3rd meant that the team could relax and play. And the good news is that the team can play a bit, with these players.

But it somehow still doesnt feel like a glory night for Liverpool. Besiktas were poor, but they werent woeful either and Liverpool did have to work for their goals at times. What was encourgaing was that the players still all wanted to play and defend (they didnt ship a goal) even when far ahead, which is positive. There was no letting up.

But like the 6-0 win over Derby, which had a feelgood factor about it ' if you know what I mean in terms of players and fans celebrating, this game is just worth 3 pts and Liverpool will need to buckle down and get 3 pts in the next CL match, which is just as important (not to mention the league). There is still a lot of football to be played in this group and at the moment, Liverpool have not qualified. So yes, lets quietly celebrate this one for what it is, 3 pts at home in a match that should be a 3 pointer anyway. The goals are just a gloss really, as the next match will be harder.

mike65 wrote: »

Is Voronin the thinking players Dirt Kuyt? On the face of it they are pretty much the same type but tonight the Ukrianian was far more effective than the Dutchman would have been I think.

Yes, they are very similar players. Perhaps Voronin suits the CL more whereas usually Kuyt suits the league more. I would think that Voronin in skills would shade it, and IF he was given a starting berth in the team, and learned his fellow players nuances, etc, I am sure he could do a very effective job.

I was pleased with Aurelio tonight. Mascherano was very good as well, and covered a lot of ground. I thought Benayoun was more fortuitous than anything with the goals, well the last two anyway. We had some luck it has to be said with the goals. Stevie's caught a slight deflection.

Crouchs 1st showed his determination getting it in on the 2nd attempt. As for Riise, with Aurelio doing a good job at left back, with Babel capable of doing a job on the left, is it time for him now to be a sub? He was trying too hard with his shots to get on the scoresheet.

Lucas - seems to have intelligence with the ball but lacks match sharpness and some of his passs were a bit short. He needs football.

Arbeloa did a good enough job at right back as well, although Finnan would still be Rafa's 1st choice for that role I would presume.

Match Verdict: Better

Redspider

mike65

Bit negative there RS?

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

el rabitos wrote: »

meh, dissagree, we had good momentum and he had alot of space to move forward and had alot of options for the pass but he blasted it. sick of him doing it in the premiership and he was rightly booed for it.

If players are getting booed for making a wrong decision (it was harsh to boo him for that one on a night that was going so well) then very few players would get off the pitch without being booed every week. Gerrards passing was atrocious at stages tonight and he had a worse shot than Riise.

spockety

Better get used to what Dunphy says.

When Liverpool win the Premier League, they will get absolutely no credit from anyone for it, mark my words. It will be because Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man Utd didn't play their best that season.

griffdaddy

Anyone got a linky for the goals?

Guy:Incognito

Mental Mickey wrote: »

I'd keep Aurelio at left back and I'd put Finnan in at left full.

2 things: 1)are you Brian Kerr? and 2) Left back and left full are the same position (left full being short for left full back) did you mean the leftsidede centre half?

mike65

Henry Winter on the Masch

With Mascherano dominant in midfield, Liverpool had the stage to attack and were over the horizon within 55 minutes. Benayoun's hat-trick will dominate the headlines but Mascherano's input was vital. The little Argentinian was magnificent, patrolling in front of the back-four, nicking the ball off enemy feet and sliding short passes to Gerrard, Benayoun and John Arne Riise in midfield.

Positionally disciplined, Mascherano played the continuity man to perfection, keeping the momentum ticking over, pushing Liverpool to take control.

Rubbish he is, so he is.

Mike.

Dub13

griffdaddy wrote: »

Anyone got a linky for the goals?

I will have a dig for you.

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

Better get used to what Dunphy says.

When Liverpool win the Premier League, they will get absolutely no credit from anyone for it, mark my words. It will be because Chelsea, Arsenal, and Man Utd didn't play their best that season.

The plaudits will come from PHB, dont worry, all will be well.

Mental Mickey

Stekelly wrote: »

2 things: 1)are you Brian Kerr? and 2) Left back and left full are the same position (left full being short for left full back) did you mean the leftsidede centre half?

1. No, I ain't Brian Kerr, and 2, I meant right full. My mistake!!!

Dub13

Don't worry about the plaudits or lack of them who cares once we win the Premiership.

Guy:Incognito

griffdaddy wrote: »

Anyone got a linky for the goals?

Youtube dont allow clips that big.

redzerdrog

Stekelly wrote: »

Youtube dont allow clips that big.

ya just got there before me:D

Stky10

PHB wrote: »

It'd be harsh to drop Voronin, I thought he was really good. Integral to the victory imo. It's not the later goals that really matter, it was those early goals that are the type you need this weekend, and Voronin did great work for the 2nd.

He did well enough for the second goal alright, but their defense had gone to sleep. He looked good pre-season, but he's fairly technically limited to play the role he does. I'm not saying he played badly, or he doesn't try hard enough, its more that he's just not gifted enough on the ball or as a finisher to play where he does for a top team. Just not enough end product for me.

Same for Yossi. Too lightweight for me. Reminds me too much for comfort of Smicer. Against a top team, they'll have him for breakfast.

jesus_thats_gre

8 - 0 is a great scoreline but the victory holds little significance at all in my mind. Destroying Besiktas isn't much of an achievement and just highlights how bad we have been playing in recent weeks - how in lords name did we allow them to beat us..

The main benefit of the score line is that it will hopefully take some of the pressure of the squad and allow them to go out and enjoy their football. Means **** all unless we progress to the next round and start putting a string of wins together in the league.

mike65

What was important was that they played until the final whistle dispite being able to go home after 60 mins. They wil have a spring in thier step and luckily its Fulham at home on Saturday so they have every chance to take positive mindset into that match and thump them. Its what the doctor ordered.

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

mike65 wrote: »

What was important was that they played until the final whistle dispite being able to go home after 60 mins. They wil have a spring in thier step and luckily its Fulham at home on Saturday so they have every chance to take positive mindset into that match and thump them. Its what the doctor ordered.

Mike.

agree completely...

mike65

The goals nicked from elsewhere.

http://www.zshare.net/download/4719826787efff/
http://www.zshare.net/download/4719916175bf28/
http://www.zshare.net/download/4720992d61335c/
http://www.zshare.net/download/47210885c373ac/
http://www.zshare.net/download/4721148c5b1350/
http://www.zshare.net/download/4721294e988709/
http://www.zshare.net/download/4721347a3c8d5a/
http://www.zshare.net/download/47214563d190d5/

Mike.

Jazzy

nice victory.

benni for motm, thought he was very lively and showed intellegence whenever he got the ball. voronin also played v.well and with the amount of 'em, he deserved a goal.

lets hope there is some momentum kept and we can beat fulham, and from there then lets hope we havent been as crap as we have been in recent weeks.
id like to see benni starting more games on the right and i think babel should be getting 30 mins or so per match. Riise wasnt too bad today either, a dodgy pass or 2 but other wise quite good. wouldnt like to see him leave, far far too handy a player. there is a reason why utd. keep wes brown, o shea et al... and they know something about winning the league too

Dirk Gently

mike65 wrote: »

What was important was that they played until the final whistle dispite being able to go home after 60 mins. They wil have a spring in thier step and luckily its Fulham at home on Saturday so they have every chance to take positive mindset into that match and thump them. Its what the doctor ordered.

Mike.

I remember thinking the same thing after we beat derby 6-0 but we followed it up with a couple of 0-0 draws against Portsmouth and B'ham. Hopefully they can build from this and start playing a bit of decent football but I'm not letting myself get carried away again like after the Derby win.

Great achievement tonight though.



/me goes off to watch recording of the match with a bag of popcorn.

redspider

mike65 wrote: »

Bit negative there RS?

Yeah, that's my middle name these days, just trying to live up to the 'bad rep' ! ;-)

The glass looks half full to me ..... but I do look at the other half from time to time (sic).

Roll on Fulham .....

Mr Alan

Well, that was a performance and a half if ya ask me.
Perfect answer to the critics and hopefully a platform to build on now over the next few weeks in the league. fulham at home on the weekend, international break, then we should have Agger,Alonso and Torres back.

Yossi has looked excellent at almost every opportunity he has had for us, who ever was saying the big teams would eat him for breakfast? Do you not remember him running us ragged in the FA cup final for West Ham, no? The guys touch is excellent, vision, excellent, he may not be suited to have against all opposition, but he is a hugely important weapon to have for a team with title aspirations, see Wigan for an example of why.

Voronin looked excellent tonight. Crouch looked hungry too, hope he gets a start on Saturday, but if torres is fit, Torres and Voronin would probably be my prefered choice tbh. Lucas looked good when he came on again, great vision to pick out Yossi (i think?) for Babels goal, bit more game time and he'll get sharp as ****.

Mascherano was excellent. Riise is so annoying its unbelievable. Gerrard was pretty good. Solid at the back. Arbeloa was excellent at RB, hopefully this will be the kick up the arse finnan needs.....although arbeloa looks like more of an attacking threat tbh so maybe he should be favoured against weaker opposition? At 24 and being able to play both left and right, he looks like an excellent purchase for Rafa.

Anyway, hopefully thats the negativity gone for a little while. crowd was very vocal in its support of Rafa as well which was great to hear.

---

Now one thing that annoyed the ****e out of me!!! i know that they only speak crap and are meant to be there for entertainment reasons mainly! but the panel on RTE were a joke, i enjoy watching them always because ya can have a chuckle along with them, be it slating ronaldo, saying Gerrard is a nothing player etc etc. BUT i think they need a new host, someone who will pull them up on some of the ****e they talk. For example tonight, all rafas buys have been ****e and couldnt play for another one of the top 3 sides?

First off, we are a top three side, we have been better than Arsenal for the last 2 years, there great start doesnt change that.
If they mean the top three sides now? well that includes City and not Chelsea.

Second, Alonso,Reina,Agger,Mascherano,Torres,Babel,Lucas are all good enough to be part of Chelsea,Utd or Arsenal set ups.

well .... rant over.

Des

---

get that €20 ready!

Tusky

Rewatching some of the game again...Mascherano was absolutely immense. His passing was top notch, wasnt just simple short passes either. Take a look at his crossfield pass for Benayoun for the last goal.

Dub13

Tusky wrote: »

Rewatching some of the game again...Mascherano was absolutely immense. His passing was top notch, wasnt just simple short passes either. Take a look at his crossfield pass for Benayoun for the last goal.

Lets hope we can figure out who owns him and buy him.

jesus_thats_gre

clown bag wrote: »

I remember thinking the same thing after we beat derby 6-0 but we followed it up with a couple of 0-0 draws against Portsmouth and B'ham. Hopefully they can build from this and start playing a bit of decent football but I'm not letting myself get carried away again like after the Derby win.

Great achievement tonight though.

The international break so soon after that win did not allow us to benefit from the momentum that that win should has given us. There is quite a few games coming up in quick succession now so hopefully we can push on a bit this time.

lordgoat

Great result tonight. Shocking that they beat ye already though. Odds on yossi being dropped on sat?? I'll get me coat!

Nunu

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

The international break so soon after that win did not allow us to benefit from the momentum that that win should has given us. There is quite a few games coming up in quick succession now so hopefully we can push on a bit this time.

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but Liverpool play Fulham at the weekend and then no game for 2 weeks because............................International break again:D

jesus_thats_gre

Nunu wrote: »

Hate to be the one to break it to you, but Liverpool play Fulham at the weekend and then no game for 2 weeks because............................International break again:D

Ah fook, I thought there was a a string of games coming up. Balls

~Rebel~

Delighted with tonights performance.

Always great to see a rake of goals.

Whats really fastastic, and actually relvent to future games (as opposed to spanking a poor team) is that the passing was much improved. The poor quality of the opposition doesnt really matter in this respect, as it was simple passes under little pressure that have been our undoing this last few weeks

Id like to see a very similar team for the weekend, with Finnan in at RB again. Aurelio start at left to keep regaining his fitness with Arbeloa coming on for one of them. Babel to start on the left instead of Riise with the rest of the midfield the same, and crouch and Voro to start up front again, with Voro going off for either torres or kuyt. Ideally kuyt though, i dont want torres playing before the break so we can hang onto him.

Peyton Manning

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Whats really fastastic, and actually relvent to future games (as opposed to spanking a poor team) is that the passing was much improved. The poor quality of the opposition doesnt really matter in this respect, as it was simple passes under little pressure that have been our undoing this last few weeks

But surely a much better quality of opposition would mean that there would be more pressure?

Dont be at yourself

I think he means that our mistakes recently havent been forced by the opposition, but rather stemmed from our own inability to pass consistently. Besiktas are no worse than many of the teams we've been struggling to put away recently, regardless of what the scoreline suggests.

redspider

> Lets hope we can figure out who owns him and buy him. (Mascherano)

I had thought that the ownership was sorted out, but I'm only going by what I read and what was rumoured (ie: a 10m pay-off with some Uefa/Fifa intervention). But its all murky.

If MSI (Joorabchian) are still the owners and Mascherano is still officially on loan from them, then it will have to get sorted out I presume, or maybe not??

I had thought that FIFA and Uefa wanted all such deals sorted out (ie: only having players 'owned' by clubs) but there are seemingly many players in such a situation across the world, as far as I understand. Tevez is still on loan from MSI as well and the clubs are paying for these loans, ie: they pay MSI to have a loan of the player for a set number of years. Its not clear how many years Masch is loaned out to Liverpool, but I would have presumed 2, so that would take him up to Jan 2009.


> (why is there a poor RTE host)

Well, its well-known that Giles, and Dunphy and whoever joins them has kept O'Herlihy BECAUSE they can treat him as completely inept. It is part of the comedy act. They dont really want a real football guy throwing them awkward questions.

O'Herlihy: I put it to you Gentlemen, that ....
Dunphy: You know nothing Bill, nothing.
O'Herlihy: I accept that. (smiles, shuffles papers, etc)

The reason why Apres Match was canned was that it wasnt needed, as the real '3 stooges' most of the time are equally as hilarious if not more so!

Redspider

Cyrus

no the reason o herlihy is there is that he owns the production co and he calls the shots (or so i hear) not as harmless as he lets on!

Cyrus

tv gold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izpAVt_qIUI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9emGPoVZCX4

Chardee MacDennis

Cyrus wrote: »

no the reason o herlihy is there is that he owns the production co and he calls the shots (or so i hear) not as harmless as he lets on!

yup thats correct.

Red Spider: Masch's loan with us expires at the end of the seasons. 10m looked a bargain last night, but I have also heard 17m - although the 7m could be for the loan up until then. no one is really sure, plus he's only 23.

redspider

Cyrus wrote: »

no the reason o herlihy is there is that he owns the production co and he calls the shots (or so i hear) not as harmless as he lets on!

No, he doesnt own the production company - the producers in this case are RTE, ie: taxpayers money, our money.

Bill has been with RTE a long time (over 40 years) and as such is a 'made' personality, a lifer, if you know what I mean. ie: untouchable. In other words, he gets paid far too much for what he does. RTE will remain like this with overpaid "personalities" until some political party (Government) takes them on but no-one has so far.

O'Herlihy will readily admit that he is not an expert in football, but he enjoys trying to stoke the discussions and to keep the banter going and to act the fool, which he is a natural at. In these programmes he happily plays the clown, and then goes home and looks at his fat bank account and laughs histerically into the mirror "the fools, the fools".

We, the public, are the fools for letting this farce continue ....

Redspider

Chardee MacDennis

well there ya go - i've been under that impression for years!

missingtime

Leave O'Herlihy alone!

He keeps the whole show running. Without him it would just be another bog standard arse-lick-athon like the bbc.

He riles them all up, gets the the discussion running.

Most importantly he's not afraid to let the argument run - case in point, dunphy's outburst about Roy Keane. That was all Bill, and he wasn't butting in trying to calm things down.

Bill for the win!

copacetic

Call_me_al wrote: »

yup thats correct.

no it's not, premiership and champions league is purely an RTÉ production. Nothing to do with any other company..


edit - sorry, see that was pointed out already..