Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

kida

Mr Alan wrote: »

you saying you now rate Crouch PHB?

be shocked if the Carson deal wasnt already done, and one soft goal aint gonna change anything tonight. Football is a fickle game, but not that fickle!

It is in the English Media - and guess who the scapegoat will be?

oobydooby

Hello,

Mr Alan, I found myself agreeing with your rant. He's a nice lad Crouch but ever since he became popular with his robot dance he seems to be on the circuit. He's constantly giving sound-bites to the press and he openly questions Rafa's rotation policy. He should put his head down and keep grafting for the next few years.

No matter how much anyone likes Crouch, he's in a completely different league to Torres. To Rafa, he was great value for a medium budget team as Liverpool were but Rafa can sell Crouch for a profit and chase Eto'o or somebody of similar talent.

I think Rafa's been stubborn sometimes not playing Crouch but Crouchie might learn to shut his mouth, work hard at making the team and not be questioning the manager. If he moves to Portsmouth or wherever, it will likely be the end of his England career. He's not got the talent to be first choice for Liverpool but this is his only chance to play a part with a top team, and he has plenty to offer us.

~Rebel~

In all fairness, Crouch was rubbish at the start of the season. Its only the last month that he's started to show what he can do again. He was fourth choice on merit.

Even when he scored towards the start of the season when playing beside Voronin, it was very clear who was having the better game. Voro's Liverpool career started off brilliantly and he hit form immediately. Kuyt looked very good linking up with Torres at the start of the season as well. All of this, combined with Crouch's bad form meant Rafa was completely right to be lower in the pecking order. And look what happened when he started to show a little form, and Kuyt's form has started to drop - he's started coming back into it more getting more chances.

Rafa isn't stupid.

PHB

I think Crouch is a decent player. He's not top class. I think he's about as good as Smith. I think last season though Crouch was pretty unfairly treated by Rafa.

I think Crouch's problem isn't that he's a bad player, it's that he's too tall. There's nothing wrong with his game in this regard, but because of it, players are a lot more willing to lump it forward to him because of it. This in turn makes the team ****ter.

witnessmenow

I think anyone saying crouch didn't deserve to start more earlier in the season must be mad! Didn't he have the second best goals-to-game ratio last season in the league? My granny could tell that voro and Kuyt make a terrible partnership yet he kept leaving crouch off until he was basically forced to start playing him. Rafa obviously doesn't like crouch for some reason , but he is definitely Liverpool's second best striker

redspider

With England being knocked out of Euro 2008, this is actually good news for Liverpool. One player who wears nearly an English 'heart' as much as his Liverpool 'heart' is Stevie G (he wrote about it in his book). He will be dissapointed to be out, but it would have been major a distraction from his 'work' at Liverpool. He will now be able to concentrate 100% on Liverpool, as will Crouch.

As to the discussion about Crouch, he has his uses and can change things. Many defences (depending on the defence) find him impossible to deal with, and with good supply (again depending on who are wingers our and their backs and midfielders) he can create and be involved in lots of chances. He is an option in our armoury which I think we should keep for the moment.

Players where I see more overlap in what they bring are Kuyt and Voronin. But overall, we need 4 attackers to handle the no of games and injuries, etc. But I would start Torres in all the important matches, as he seems to be the best finisher we have and can score with either foot. Being played in a 4-5-1 does not suit him, and it doesnt suit most players tbh, as they are too isolated, have too many defenders watching them, etc.

Redspider

Spud83

redspider wrote: »

With England being knocked out of Euro 2008, this is actually good news for Liverpool. One player who wears nearly an English 'heart' as much as his Liverpool 'heart' is Stevie G (he wrote about it in his book).

Wow he didn't really show that last night considering he was ****. What was the difference between last nights England team and the last five English teams to qualify for a major tournament (98,00,02,04, 06).

I know I missed 96, but they didn't have to qualify.

IrishMike

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

What was the difference between last nights England team and the last five English teams to qualify for a major tournament (98,00,02,04, 06).

Alan shearer ?
A fit david beckam?
A decent centre back partnership?
Better management?

Am i getting close ...

raven136

redspider:you say torres isnt suited to a 4-5-1 but i could be wrong in saying that his entire athletico career was played almost entirely up front on his own.

Spud83

IrishMike wrote: »

Alan shearer ?
A fit david beckam?
A decent centre back partnership?
Better management?

Am i getting close ...

Not really.

Spud83

raven136 wrote: »

redspider:you say torres isnt suited to a 4-5-1 but i could be wrong in saying that his entire athletico career was played almost entirely up front on his own.

I dont think his entire career was. At the start I think he was in a 4-4-2 formation and then in the alst season or two it was switched to 4-5-1. I think he plays better in 4-4-2, as he has good link up play, and likes to get behind defenders. If you are up front on your own the ball is coming to feet alot with your back to goal, Torress like facing the other way.

micks

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Wow he didn't really show that last night considering he was ****. What was the difference between last nights England team and the last five English teams to qualify for a major tournament (98,00,02,04, 06).

I know I missed 96, but they didn't have to qualify.

No manure players in it ?

Spud83

micks wrote: »

No manure players in it ?

Ding Ding Ding, you are correct Sir.



I presume you meant man utd

yahoo_moe

kryogen wrote: »

ahem, Karel Poborski? Massimo Taibi, David Beckham to an extent, ....im too tired to think of others, but one goal, on a big stage can have a very big effect on somebodys career, football is probably more fickle then you think rather then less in fairness!

John Jensen at Arsenal - scored in the Euro 92 final, then 1 goal in 138 Arsenal matches... Milan Baros being linked left, right and centre with top clubs after Euro 2004...

PiE

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Ding Ding Ding, you are correct Sir.

Oh man.

~Rebel~

witnessmenow wrote:

I think anyone saying crouch didn't deserve to start more earlier in the season must be mad! Didn't he have the second best goals-to-game ratio last season in the league? My granny could tell that voro and Kuyt make a terrible partnership yet he kept leaving crouch off until he was basically forced to start playing him. Rafa obviously doesn't like crouch for some reason , but he is definitely Liverpool's second best striker

So you're reason for him deserving to start is his form last year? Im of the opinion his form at the start of the season was more important.

I do agree he should have started more when Kuyt and Voro were playing together as they're too similer, but this cant be confused with Crouch Deserving a chance, he hadn't done anything decent yet at that point. On merit, Babel would be just as deserving as that spot up front next to either voro or kuyt, if not even slightly more-so.

The bottom line is, Crouch had his chances early on against poor teams and didn't take them, so why would he be put in against better teams in the league before he sorted out his form? He finally has, and he's been playing more because of it. Makes sense to me.

mike65

Hey, is'nt there a league game on Saturday?

Mike.

~Rebel~

mike65 wrote: »

Hey, is'nt there a league game on Saturday?

Mike.

\o/

Tusky

As far as I'm concerned, a strikers job is to score goals. Anything else that they bring to the table is a bonus but their main objective is to score goals.

Specially in a team like Liverpool who often play two DM's who dont score often (Sissoko-1, Mascherano-0,Alonso-banged in a couple every season) & add to that the fact that we dont have a consistent goal threat from the wings its even more important to have two strikers scoring regularly. You can brake it down like this.

Torres:

Primary(goal scoring): yes

Secondary: Fast, Strong, links up well, very skillful, great attitude, has an eye for a pass, can beat a man, Clinical finisher, great control

Crouch

Primary(goal scoring) : yes(18 goals for us last season and didnt always start, 2nd highest scorer in CL, 2nd or 3rd highest minutes-goals ratio in the PL. 14 in 26 games for England)

Secondary: Tall, quick feet, can link up well with Gerrard, wins balls in the air, great control

Kuyt

Primary(goal scoring) : no ( 13 goals from 44 games last season, 5 goals from 14 this season - two of which were penos.)

Secondary: Amazing work rate, great attitude, never gives up, has an eye for a pass, can at times link up very well, defends from the front, pretty good in the air.

Voronin

Primary(goal scoring) : no (a little too early to judge maybe but hes hardly a young player and his record at previous clubs speaks for itself...4 goals in 14 games this season, 12 goals in 41 games last season

Secondary: Eye for a pass, links up very well, determined, strong on the ball, creates a lot of chances.

For this reason I think Torres & Crouch should be our front two. They both have more of a goal threat than Kuyt & Voronin. I like a lot of the things that Kuyt brings to the table but I find him lacking in skill and speed required to play in the link up role and lacking goals to lead the line, I would love nothing more than for him to start banging goals in but he has only scored three times from open play and has featured in 14 games this season.....although we haven't seen him playing as a goal poacher much, maybe this is the problem ?

Kuyt & Voronin are so alike it would be foolish to sell Crouch and keep the both of them. In my opinion it should be...

Torres
New striker
Crouch
Kuyt OR Voronin (one to be sold)

If Babel makes an impression up front he may turn out to be our new striker though. Heres hoping. The other option is to play someone like Kewell or Benayoun off Torres up front.

Something I noticed while rooting around on stat websites, Rafas new signings have scored an impressive total of 21 goals so far this season. (Torres, Voronin, Babel, Benayoun, El Zhar)

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned, a strikers job is to score goals. Anything else that they bring to the table is a bonus but their main objective is to score goals.

Specially in a team like Liverpool who often play two DM's who dont score often (Sissoko-1, Mascherano-0,Alonso-banged in a couple every season) & add to that the fact that we dont have a consistent goal threat from the wings its even more important to have two strikers scoring regularly. You can brake it down like this.

Torres:

Primary(goal scoring): yes

Secondary: Fast, Strong, links up well, very skillful, great attitude, has an eye for a pass, can beat a man, Clinical finisher, great control

Crouch

Primary(goal scoring) : yes(18 goals for us last season and didnt always start, 2nd highest scorer in CL, 2nd or 3rd highest minutes-goals ratio in the PL. 14 in 26 games for England)

Secondary: Tall, quick feet, can link up well with Gerrard, wins balls in the air, great control

Kuyt

Primary(goal scoring) : no ( 13 goals from 44 games last season, 5 goals from 14 this season - two of which were penos.)

Secondary: Amazing work rate, great attitude, never gives up, has an eye for a pass, can at times link up very well, defends from the front, pretty good in the air.

Voronin

Primary(goal scoring) : no (a little too early to judge maybe but hes hardly a young player and his record at previous clubs speaks for itself...4 goals in 14 games this season, 12 goals in 41 games last season

Secondary: Eye for a pass, links up very well, determined, strong on the ball, creates a lot of chances.

For this reason I think Torres & Crouch should be our front two. They both have more of a goal threat than Kuyt & Voronin. I like a lot of the things that Kuyt brings to the table but I find him lacking in skill and speed required to play in the link up role and lacking goals to lead the line, I would love nothing more than for him to start banging goals in but he has only scored three times from open play and has featured in 14 games this season.....although we haven't seen him playing as a goal poacher much, maybe this is the problem ?

Kuyt & Voronin are so alike it would be foolish to sell Crouch and keep the both of them. In my opinion it should be...

Torres
New striker
Crouch
Kuyt OR Voronin (one to be sold)

If Babel makes an impression up front he may turn out to be our new striker though. Heres hoping. The other option is to play someone like Kewell or Benayoun off Torres up front.

Something I noticed while rooting around on stat websites, Rafas new signings have scored an impressive total of 21 goals so far this season. (Torres, Voronin, Babel, Benayoun, El Zhar)

el zhar is hardly new

zing

Tusky wrote: »

Something I noticed while rooting around on stat websites, Rafas new signings have scored an impressive total of 21 goals so far this season. (Torres, Voronin, Babel, Benayoun, El Zhar)

El Zhar was signed in summer '06 so isn't really in the same category of 'new signings' as the others (i.e. they're all summer '07 signings). But he's only contributed 1 goal to those 21..

Kanney

Newcastle game, I can't wait for. I used to be happy with International breaks but with Ireland not doing anything I'm itching for more pool.
Torres to score is a safe bet imho.

Tusky

whatawaster wrote: »

el zhar is hardly new

Oops, silly me, wasn't thinking. Hes only scored one goal anyway...

Zapp Brannigan

Apparently Barca are lining up a deal for Lahm, reportedly 11million. If he's available at that price we really should be having a look at him.

zing

Someone up the food chain at LFC has pissed Rafa off big time today by the looks of it
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-stunner-england-job-might-tempt-me%26method=full%26objectid=20147630%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

IrishMike

He is a pretty poor defender though.
He is more an attacking wing back, in the same mould as alves from sevilla.
Brilliant player going forward thats for sure and he can play right or left back

mike65

I'm not panicing yet.

Mike.

Chardee MacDennis

dont like that article one bit - he's too smart to take the england job. maybe he is just pi$$ed off answering the same questions about his future....

Guy:Incognito

He could do it part time as well as Liverpool. If that was an option I wouldnt have a problem with it. It's not like a player who apparetnly can get tired :rolleyes: from playing games. Plus the games never overlap anyway.

Probably not a runner though.

prendy

He could do it part time as well as Liverpool. If that was an option I wouldnt have a problem with it. It's not like a player who apparetnly can get tired from playing games. Plus the games never overlap anyway.

do you think the FA would like a part time manager...there in enough crap for not qualifing!

Guy:Incognito

prendy wrote: »

do you think the FA would like a part time manager...there in enough crap for not qualifing!

tbh I dont think the manager does a whole lot outside of scouting English palyers in between international breaks. Rafa's in a great position to do the England scouting job from the Liverpool dugout.

Plus I think they should do whatevers required to get the best man for the job (not saying it's nessicarily Rafa).

spockety

If you weren't worried by Rafa's press conference, maybe this will help:

Liverpool co-Chairmen Tom Hicks and George Gillett have today released the following statement.
"We made a significant investment in the playing squad during the summer and desperately want this team to succeed.

"There are some very important games coming up in the next couple of weeks and all of us need to focus on winning those games and getting the best out of the players we already have at the club.

"We will leave any talk of buying or selling players until we come across to Liverpool in December and sit down with the Manager then."

WTF IS GOING ON!!

zing

Less sensationalist reporting on the same press conference from Sky - who'd have thought ?
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2897165,00.html

"In the future, you never know what can happen. If I improve my English, maybe!"

Spud83

spockety wrote: »

WTF IS GOING ON!!

Eh at a guess they dont want to commit to giving Rafa manager any more money until Liverpool have secured champions league qualification. If that doesn't happen I can see him having limited funds in Jan, as they will not give him anymore money unless he does a decent job in the league. Seriously if ya's dont get through the group stages, or make a decent stab at the league Rafa is gone.

spockety

I don't think you understand.. that Hicks/Gillett statement is the main story on the front page of liverpool's official web site. There is something very fishy going on.

mike65

I'm going to play my Calm Down Calm Down card!

Its already been mentioned by me and maybe others that there will be a mid-term contract review by next summer. This makes sense after 4 years in charge, if all is well and progess is apparent he'll stay - if not he'll go.

Mike.

opr

Sky made reference a couple of times today after showing the interview they think it could be related to the owners not making the funds available to secure Mascharenos future at the club.

I watched the press conference today and he did not look a happy man !!

It was as if he was trying to put out a warning to the guys upstairs.

Opr

mike65

Here's is the press conference audio 6 mb mp3.

---

Reina
Finnan-Carra-Hyypia-Arbeloa
Babel--Gerrard-Sissoko-Riise

---

Torres-Kuyt

That said Kewell could well start as might Agger even Yossi. I dunno!

edit Masch played the full 90 for Argentina so doubtful.

Mike.

Guy:Incognito

spockety wrote: »

I don't think you understand.. that Hicks/Gillett statement is the main story on the front page of liverpool's official web site. There is something very fishy going on.

Slow week maybe? what with internationals and all.

Kanney

Agger is supposedly back in contention, I'd love to see him back. Better bring him back against Newcastle than the rough Bolton next week. Yossi is back is he? Thought he had another week, I think Aurelio might play and Riise wide right, or Kewell.
Kewell played 90 mins for Australia tho..Not too sure where he played it, in Europe or elsewhere.

mike65

Milton Keynes!

Mike.

Vokes

Kanney wrote: »

Kewell played 90 mins for Australia tho..Not too sure where he played it, in Europe or elsewhere.

I know he played at the Cottage last weekend vs Nigeria and played well by all acounts. Did the Socceroos have another game on Wed evening?

Tusky

Stekelly wrote: »

Slow week maybe? what with internationals and all.

No, they wouldn't post something like that purely because there was no other news. The official Liverpool website almost never posts anything negative about the team or club...

[edit] Just had a root around some websites and forums and this seems to be the general feeling -

Masch deal was done but the owners wouldn't give Rafa the cash. Rafa then made it known that he was happy and publicly refused to commit future to the club. Following this, statement released by owners that basically says Rafa has got to win the next few games before they will pay for more players.

Makes sense. If we let Mascherano slip through our fingers I will cry.

Mr Magnolia

Liverpool boss Rafael Benitez has said he may be interested in the England job after an apparent disagreement with the club's owners over transfer targets.

Source

Jesus Wept

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Source

I would of liked to of seen the press conference in question, because things really can be taken out of context, and often are.

Mr Magnolia

Yeah, I was thinking that myself Rigger. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.

zing

Here's a transcript of his interview with the written press - from just after the TV interview
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=transcript-of-the-liverpool-manager-rafa-benitez-when-questioned-by-the-press%26method=full%26objectid=20150037%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Clearly very pissed off

zAbbo

If he wants out, he can go, No point keeping someone who doesn't want to stay or is playing mind games with the owners via the media.

el rabitos

getting pretty sick of this rafa being unhappy bollox tbh

like every couple of months he gets miserable and gets into these moods when he doesnt get the usual backing. seems like a bleedin nightmare to work with

i'm sure he has a bit of a point, and i dont want him to go or anything....but after reading that transcript of yesterdays press conference i'm starting to lean towards the just **** off then if ur not happy side of the fence

he's getting like gerrard with his pissing and moaning when he doesnt get everything he wants.

its getting irritating and a bit embarassing to be a fan with the pair of them.

zAbbo

He's easily had the most backing of any Liverpool manager, spending millions during the summer, and he wants to do the same now, not January, but now he wants to look at players to bring in for January.

The bosses said they'll talk about it when they are over in December, they'll not be impressed by this.

Imo, he's gone next summer anyway.