Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

prendy

i hope he doesnt go...hes made great improvements IMO.
i hate the constant whinging tho.

Sizzler

Is Rafa the new O'Leary If it aint happening on the pitch he will blame the lack of funds available to spend..

Whatever happened to man management

event

Rafa wrote:

As always I am focused on training and coaching my team

tbh, he sounds like a bloody child. he said that about 12 times in that transcript.

mike65

He simply said that rather than get sucked into a speculative discussion he did'nt want.

I still think there's less to this than meets the eye.

Mike.

PHB

You did kind of suggest to the TV people that you were open to possibility of the England job. Is that something we should treat seriously?

RB: It’s your decision. You never know what will happen in the future.

Were you serious when you answered it?

RB: I was serious.

It would be dereliction of our duty not to point out that one day you say you are looking to stay here a long time, then the next day you are saying who knows about England for the future. Isn’t there a contradiction between the two?

RB: The future is the future. Now, as always I am focused on training and coaching my team, so I cannot say anything else. Just to keep preparing for the next game.

Criky.

el rabitos

i wouldnt have thought alot of it, but then theres ther random gillette and hicks statement on the official site which pretty much set the alarm bells ringing.

i can see it being frustrating when you have as little in person contact with the owners that rafa has, and maybe parry isnt much of a bridge between the 2 parties, but i think how rafa conducts himself at times is like that of a child, as event said.

theres a better way of going about things than he did in that press conferance, though surely it doesnt take a face to face meeting for them to discuss tranfer funds?

the next few results are pretty vital in the grand scheme of things and i dont think its too unreasonable for the owners to tell rafa they want to see some results before he gets more backing. i'd be more worried if they just backed him blindly.

be ragin if we lost mach though.

IrishMike

Mourinho was under twice the pressue and had to deal with ten times as much ****
but u didnt hear him whinging half as much as rafa.
I wish he would just shut his mouth and grow up
He got millions in the summer but he is still hot happy.
He plays boring unattractive football and makes some of the most unbelievable selections and changes.
He should start worrying more about winning the league by the team playing well rather than trying to buy it.
/end rant!

Jesus Wept

zing wrote: »

Here's a transcript of his interview with the written press - from just after the TV interview
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=transcript-of-the-liverpool-manager-rafa-benitez-when-questioned-by-the-press%26method=full%26objectid=20150037%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

Clearly very pissed off

Well that was bizarre.

IrishMike wrote: »

Mourinho was under twice the pressue and had to deal with ten times as much ****
but u didnt hear him whinging half as much as rafa.

LOL!!

That is all!

zing

I honestly don't think he wants to go.

That's the second time he's thrown his toys out of the cot by my reckoning - first was after the CL final in May and you can at least partially put that outburst down to him being both physically & emotionally wrecked after the CL final and all that surrounded it from the team pov (e.g. having to give his hotel bed to someone else as the team simply didn't have enough, etc..).

But this outburst - or complete lack of it - is very different. From the statement issued by Gillet & Hicks it would appear to be related to player xfers and the speculation appears to be that it's specifically linked to Masch and wanting to tie that deal up early. Is there a specific urgency with this deal - I would have thought we'd have had at least up to the end of the first 12 of the 18 months (that the loan is for) to make the loan move into a permanent move.

Is he being told he'll have to sell to buy in Jan and that funds will be limited otherwise ? Is he being told the same applies if we don't progress in the CL ? If so I think that's a fair stance from the owners/board in both situations.

He's had the other odd headline grabbing incidents too but I don't recall others being on the same scale.

What annoys me most is the club having to issue press statements which are basically directed at him. All the others have been putting an arm around him - "we do love you" - "we will back you" type of stuff but yesterdays didn't have the same ring to it. Seemed to be more of a 'start doing your talking on the pitch' feel about it.

All speculation of course..

zing

el rabitos wrote: »

maybe parry isnt much of a bridge between the 2 parties

Foster Gillet is supposed to be their man on the ground though. Maybe he's ultimately powerless and has to go daddy & uncle Tom for an answer to everything

jesus_thats_gre

The-Rigger wrote: »

LOL!!

That is all!

X2

el rabitos

zing wrote: »

Foster Gillet is supposed to be their man on the ground though. Maybe he's ultimately powerless and has to go daddy & uncle Tom for an answer to everything

i thought he wasnt penciled in to replace parry until the new year due to visa issues, i could be wrong, havent heard much in regards to parrys coming and goings in the past few months.

shouldnt have to wait too long for a bit of clarity on the issue hopefully, i'm sure rafa will be quized again either before or after the match tomorrow

Jesus Wept

zing wrote: »

I honestly don't think he wants to go.

That's the second time he's thrown his toys out of the cot by my reckoning - first was after the CL final in May and you can at least partially put that outburst down to him being both physically & emotionally wrecked after the CL final and all that surrounded it from the team pov (e.g. having to give his hotel bed to someone else as the team simply didn't have enough, etc..).

Never heard about that, what was going on??

event

i tell ya, the tide would turn against teh new owners if rafa were to leave, and it turned out that they were putting the club into debt wiht the new stadium.

its all a bit strange, liverpool have never really been a club to have issues with management and owners.

Mr Magnolia

event wrote: »

i tell ya, the tide would turn against teh new owners if rafa were to leave, and it turned out that they were putting the club into debt wiht the new stadium.

It would depend on who they brought in tbh. I wouldn't lose any sleep if rafa was to be removed and a good replacement put in place.

PiE

I don't see anything wrong with what G&H's have said... all they've said is that we should be focussing on the current crop games rather than what will happen in January.

For once I'm not siding with Rafa.

prendy

i reckon once we get back into the football it'll all blow over fairly soon.
i guarantee a win on sat and it wont be mentioned bout the england job.

Villain

Can I get this right,

Rafa had a meeting with the new Owners saying he had targets for January window and the Owners told him they won't dicuss that until Decemeber and Rafa comes out and says he might take the England Job?

Is that where the story is at?

I think its funny to compare that to Villa where Martin O'Neill went to the US last week to meet the owner to discuss his targets and has come back and said he doesn't want the England job.

yom 1

I wonder if it is a sign of things to come with regards to lack of funds especially with the stadium costs rising everytime its mentioned (oops, think it just went up another million there:p)

el rabitos

here look, pre-the takeover we had no money and couldnt fund any stadium.

we now have money and a stadium on the way, the only downside is there might not be enough money, but there is money.

i'll take a new stadium on the way and some money vs no stadium on the way and no money any day of the week

g&h from the outside looking in are not being unreasonable. let your management do the talking rafa. liverpool sitting in the top 2 and rafa having his meeting with the pair of them on the 16th of december after the match with utd having been victorious will put rafa in a good position to be telling them what he wants. until then make the most of what u were given in the summer and manage the team u have.

Spud83

I agreed with above. If Liverpool are through the next stage of the champions league and in a good position to make a challenge for the league then I think the owners would be happy to make some funds available in Jan(although I dont think it will be in the 30mill+ bracket), but some money will be available. Then at the end of the season everything will be assessed again.

yom 1

el rabitos wrote: »

here look, pre-the takeover we had no money and couldnt fund any stadium.

Dont get me wrong I'm all for the new stadium just saying it could be a sign of things in the not so distant future as the stadium costs are spiralling

el rabitos wrote:

g&h from the outside looking in are not being unreasonable. let your management do the talking rafa. liverpool sitting in the top 2 and rafa having his meeting with the pair of them on the 16th of december after the match with utd having been victorious will put rafa in a good position to be telling them what he wants. until then make the most of what u were given in the summer and manage the team u have.

I think your spot on there. No more distractions of International breaks, time to get a good run going and show that we are capable of taking that next step.

Tusky

If rafa was looking to tie the Mascherano deal up then I think he should have been given the funds. There is going to be ALOT of interest in Mascherano from from some top clubs. All of which would be very desirable places to go to. I can understand Rafa wanting to get him tied into a proper contract. It fits in with the statements from Masch & Rafa last week saying that he wanted to stay and Rafa saying he wanted to keep him. If that is the case I can understand Rafa being annoyed because there is the possibility of losing one of the best holding midfielder's in the world.

However, if Rafa is looking at targets that are not currently at the club which is what the owners have possibly hinted at "do the best with the players currently at the club" then I feel its reasonable for them to ask for some results first. In fairness, they said they will look at the situation in December. Its now the 23rd of November, hardly that big a deal.

What does seem very strange though, is why they would issue a statement like that on the official website to the public ? Seems like something they should be putting in an email to Rafa and Rafa alone. Why make it public ? Doesn't make sense.

Sheds a little bit more light - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/videos-pictures/liverpool-audio/liverpool-sport-audio/2007/11/22/football-confidential-231107-100252-20151048/

zing

Tusky wrote: »

What does seem very strange though, is why they would issue a statement like that on the official website to the public ? Seems like something they should be putting in an email to Rafa and Rafa alone. Why make it public ? Doesn't make sense.

Indeed.

Interview with Hicks - they told Rafa 'recently' that they would discuss funds in Dec nad he got pissed over the intl break
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/11/23/tom-hicks-quit-talking-and-coach-the-players-100252-20150506/
the impression there is that that conversation didn't happen yesterday. If so then what triggered Rafa's little media show.

Tusky

zing wrote: »

Indeed.

Interview with Hicks - they told Rafa 'recently' that they would discuss funds in Dec nad he got pissed over the intl break
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2007/11/23/tom-hicks-quit-talking-and-coach-the-players-100252-20150506/
the impression there is that that conversation didn't happen yesterday. If so then what triggered Rafa's little media show.

Interesting, that interview between the echo & Hicks is from today! Hadn't seen iit. He basically makes concrete what we had suspected already. I just hope we don't lose Mascherano.

zing

Some more background on recent events and just how bad working relationships currently are:
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=a-phrase-that-lifted-the-lid-on-anfield-8217-s-inner-turmoil%26method=full%26objectid=20151477%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

If they don't back Rafa and he goes it will cost them a lot more in the long term though (new manager, new managers players, etc..)

Tusky

zing wrote: »

Some more background on recent events and just how bad working relationships currently are:
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=a-phrase-that-lifted-the-lid-on-anfield-8217-s-inner-turmoil%26method=full%26objectid=20151477%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

If they don't back Rafa and he goes it will cost them a lot more in the long term though (new manager, new managers players, etc..)

Rehash of what we already know apart from this bit -

Yesterday, he asked not for a revolution and not for millions upon millions of pounds to spend. He asked to be given the freedom to operate in the transfer market without restrictions, to be allowed to sell players no longer deemed of any great valueto fund the acquisition of players whom he feels can make a real difference.

Benitez has been here before, of course. In his final season at Valencia he clashed with sporting director Jesus Garcia Pitarch over the La Liga side’s transfer policy time and time again.

At one stage he became so frustrated, he famously accused his boss of bringing him a lampshade when he’d asked for a table.

This time around Benitez has been told not only is the furniture store not yet open, he can’t even get rid of the table and chairs he no longer likes until Hicks and Gillett give the go-ahead to do so.

In his eyes, this is an infringement on his jurisdiction as team manager. In the view of the Americans, it is a normal business practice as they take stock of how their investment is performing.

The rights and wrongs of the two positions can be debated endlessly.

Jazzy

mike65

As I said, less here than meets the eye. No discussion till mid December. Its Nov 23rd already so Rafa does'nt have to wait long, he has first dibs on Masch if they have the money, we know Carson and almost certainly one or two others wil be gone in January. That'll free up upwards of 20 million which is enough for Masch and one other player (proberly a CB) with little or no extra spending.

Mike.

zing

mike65 wrote: »

As I said, less here than meets the eye. No discussion till mid December. Its Nov 23rd already so Rafa does'nt have to wait long, he has first dibs on Masch if they have the money, we know Carson and almost certainly one or two others wil be gone in January. That'll free up upwards of 20 million which is enough for Masch and one other player (proberly a CB) with little or no extra spending.

Mike.

Carson is on a season loan with option to buy in summer - why would Villa cough up now ? Also that latest article from Tony Barrett implies that Rafa has been told he can't even offload existing players until after that meeting in Dec.

mike65

TBF the tranfer window does'nt open till Jan 1st and very little happens in the first 10 days anyway as a rule I don't think he'll get gazumped for a player if thats his worry.

The Carson money is "in the bank" in all but name.

Mike.

PHB

Is it unreasonable from the owners to say if you want Mascherano you should sell Sissoko? Seems to make sense to me. Sissoko is just another player, another defensive midfielder, and there isn't infinite money. You gotta prioritise.

Jesus Wept

Ah C'mon Mike, there is a lot more than meets the eye.

The question on who is right or wrong regarding waiting till Dec 16th is mute.

To have the owners sending messages to the manager via odd press releases on the club website is awful.
I saw the press release yesterday and thought it was strange, because I hadn't seen anything quite like it before.

And now to have our manager sending messages to the owners via press conferences is equally dreadful. :mad:
All is not well.

The way our transfers have being handled have always concerned me, communication at the club hasn't appeared good as long as I can recall.

Rick Parry always takes 2-3 weeks holidays as soon as the premiership breaks and this is often when the other big clubs get most of their dealings done, then we always seem to be buying players after our squad has assembled for pre-season (prior to last summer).

Is it Rick Parry's job to handle transfer negotiations? I don't know enough about his day-to-day role or how well he goes about it, but I've wondered for a while now if he may be a weak link.
Also is he the man Rafa and the new owners are meant to speak via? Surely it's his job to make sure neither side end up communicating like they now are.
Of course they are their own people, but if he is the go-between, it's a poor reflection on him too.

Great servant, top bloke, and all that of course, however I don't know if he is the best man for the job he is meant to be doing.
Maybe he is fantastic, maybe dreadful, it's too hard to say from this side of the Shankly Gates.

Tusky

mike65 wrote: »

As I said, less here than meets the eye. No discussion till mid December. Its Nov 23rd already so Rafa does'nt have to wait long, he has first dibs on Masch if they have the money, we know Carson and almost certainly one or two others wil be gone in January. That'll free up upwards of 20 million which is enough for Masch and one other player (proberly a CB) with little or no extra spending.

Mike.

I disagree. I think something has obviously been going on for quite a while behind the scenes and this is the result of that. If the stories are to believed, Rafa isnt allowed enter negotiations to sell players until after the meeting on December 16th. Managers having digs at the owners & owners communicating with the manager publicly through the official website is not common practice...

Lets not forget that Rafa left Valencia following a breakdown of communication and disagreements over transfer policy with the Valencia owner.

zing

mike65 wrote: »

The Carson money is "in the bank" in all but name.

'In the bank ' in much the same way that Masch is ours on a permanent basis.. i.e. it's by no means a done deal

_blank_

mike65 wrote: »

The Carson money is "in the bank" in all but name.

If his howler the other night affects his confidence as much as Robinson's mistakes did to him, then he won't be a ten mill pound 'keeper for long.

Villain

Villa should buy Carson but I doubt Martin O'Neill will pay 10 million for him, he's very tough to deal with I mean he let us start the season without a proper right back at the club because everyone he went for was overpriced in his view. I'd say Carson will be bought at 7 million or he won't be bought at all imo.

5starpool

The-Rigger wrote: »

The question on who is right or wrong regarding waiting till Dec 16th is mute.

This reminds me of a converation in last weeks new episode of My Name is Earl. It is moot, not mute

On topic, this is a worrying state of affairs tbh, and if there is trouble and disharmony in there it will almost certainly reflect in the teams performance as well, and this cannot be good.

Sizzler

Rafa put back in his box

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/07/11/23/SOCCER_Liverpool_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Mr Magnolia

Sizzler wrote: »

Rafa put back in his box

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/07/11/23/SOCCER_Liverpool_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Well and truly!

This doesn't bode well..

Liverpool co-chairman Tom Hicks has put manager Rafael Benitez in his place by telling the Spaniard to "coach the players we have" rather than complain about not being able to make new signings.

herbieflowers

Do Pool fans think they need to sign new players? Is it a realistic expectation after splashing out on players like Torres and Babel and Benayoun?

spockety

We need a new centre back, we need to shore up the permanent signing of Mascherano, and we need to sell Sissoko as he is surplus to requirements once Masch signs. So yes, there is transfer activity that is vital.

herbieflowers

I wouldn't say it's vital, a centre-back, yes. Hyppia just doesn't have the pace anymore. But Mascherano? Hmm, hasn't recaptured the form he showed last season imo (and Pool fans don't seem to be raving about him the way they were last season...), although I've only seen him in poor Liverpool performances, so it's not really a legitimate statement.

spockety

Mascherano is an immense player. Maradona calls him "The Monster". He has been excellent for Liverpool this season, so I'm not sure what matches you've been watching to give you any other impression. He is an absolutely vital signing imho.

herbieflowers

Indeed, as I said I've only seen him when Pool have played badly etc...why is it necessary to sign him in January? Can he not sign at the end of the season? Why has his value dropped to 10m, wasn't he valued at 20m+ after the WC?

Tusky

herbieflowers wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's vital, a centre-back, yes. Hyppia just doesn't have the pace anymore. But Mascherano? Hmm, hasn't recaptured the form he showed last season imo (and Pool fans don't seem to be raving about him the way they were last season...), although I've only seen him in poor Liverpool performances, so it's not really a legitimate statement.

Have you actually watched Liverpool this season ? He has been our best performer bar Torres. He has been absolutely brilliant. He's had a couple of bad games but this was mainly when the team itself was playing badly. It is vital he is signed.

Apart from that I don't necessarily think that there needs to be that much transfer activity. A new CB would be nice but contrary to popular belief Hyypia has done fine. He had a couple of awful games but in recent matches hes been pretty good. We still haven't lost in the league and haven't conceded many goals. Obviously he needs to be replaced at some stage but I don't think it would be a tragedy to finish the season with him as 3rd choice center back.

Hopefully Kewell can put in some good performances on the left and we can put off buying a new winger until the summer.

herbieflowers wrote: »

Indeed, as I said I've only seen him when Pool have played badly etc...why is it necessary to sign him in January? Can he not sign at the end of the season? Why has his value dropped to 10m, wasn't he valued at 20m+ after the WC?

Im guessing here but I'd say Rafa wants to get it done now because Mascherano is happy now and has said that he wants to sign a contract. What if, come the summer we have been knocked out of champions league in group stages and finish badly in the league. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Utd, AC Milan or whoever has put in a bid for him...he may be tempted.

Nunu

David Moyes seems to be revelling in the current tension at Anfield, having a sly dig at Benitez:D

It's in the first few seconds of the press conference.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/videos-pictures/videos/everton-fc-videos/2007/11/22/david-moyes-looks-ahead-to-everton-s-premier-league-match-with-sunderland-100252-20152724/

Tusky

Nunu wrote: »

David Moyes seems to be revelling in the current tension at Anfield, having a sly dig at Benitez:D

It's in the first few seconds of the press conference.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/videos-pictures/videos/everton-fc-videos/2007/11/22/david-moyes-looks-ahead-to-everton-s-premier-league-match-with-sunderland-100252-20152724/

Thought it was pretty funny myself...would have been better if he got the wording perfect though.

Mr Alan

Dont think this is as big a deal as everyone is making it out.

But it definately is something that needs to be addressed.

I can see where both Rafa and the Yanks are coming from, and both have points tbh, Rafa should not be airing his grievances in public, but similarly, it is not acceptable that Rafa have to wait till 16th Decemeber to discuss potential new signings with the club owners, although the issue supposedly seems to be that Rafa wants to let players go and that the owners want to discuss it with him before he does, as opposed to the money that Rafa may or may not have.

The owners want Rafa to go through the official channels, ie. parry, but rafa thinks he is incompetent and wants to deal directly with the lads, who are unwilling to meet until they are over on the 16th. This situation is not right, and Rafa is dead right to be pissed off.

Anyway, as i said originally, not as big a deal as a lot of people are making out. Clear the air talks between all parties involved and we can get back to business as usual.

Now off i go to vote for rafa in the "greatest manager in the world" poll

Moyes - i'm sure the everton fans will love him for his little dig, but tbh, he was probably up all night planning it and still didnt quote the line properly?! Maybe he should just concentrate on managing his small club, or going to work in a supermarket or something. Bitter clown.

http://www.the-spine.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/everton2.jpg

event

i would have it as a pretty big thing

if this was fergie with the glazers, you'd be all over it