Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

zing

Stky10 wrote: »

Even at the end of last season before he moved, he was quite downcast about the transfer window and who'd be brought in etc. He must have trod on somebodies toes

Not sure about him being put back in his box but he defo seemed 'out of the loop' towards the end of the season. He's not considered to be a credible source at all these days but many would at least partially attribute this to the paper he now writes for. Either way he's still out of the loop...

HashSlinging

Yeah your right actually, sell kuyt.

Mental Mickey

HashSlinging wrote: »

Yeah your right actually, sell kuyt.

:eek: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd sell Voronin and Crouch before I'd get rid of Kuyt.

PHB

I'd be surprised if this story is true, if only for the fact that how often do managers walk out not happy to lose 4-5 million? If Rafa wants to leave, I doubt he'll just walk out, and i'd imagine he'd want to be pushed.

Tusky

HashSlinging wrote: »

Yeah your right actually, sell kuyt.

Sarcasm I take it ? Honestly though. Torres and Crouch both have unique abilities. Kuyt & Voronin are both hard working strikers that play quite deep, defend from the front and can pass the ball quite well. I dont see that much of a difference between them and don't think we need both.

~Rebel~

Voronin and Kuyt are quite similar alright, especially when it comes to the roles they play at LFC. Both are grafters that usually come deep to collect the ball and either lay it off to runners, or be so deep that they can turn face goal and help link up with the rest of the team.

Voronin is the faster of the 2, while their respective records would suggest kuyt is the better goal scorer with his massive tallies in Holland as well as his respectable 12 premierleague goals last year playing so deep.

Im not convinced they cant play in the same team. They obviously cant the way things have gone thus far, with both miles form goal, but I think it could work if Voro is used as the grafter with Kuyt being told to stay in the box, which is where he gets most of his goals from anyway, and where his lack of pace isn't really important. Kuyt i think has earned himself at least the rest of the year to raise his game again (which i think he's already doin based on his performance yesterday), while Voro looks a very handy all rounder to have.

To be honest im happy with having both of them, even as well as Crouch as we do also have the option of Babel to change things around if more pace and power and directness are required.

Some of this may be my own sentimentality towards the players though, as In reality to really be top class maybe we should be upgrading all 3 to the next level.

Mental Mickey

Tusky wrote: »

Sarcasm I take it ? Honestly though. Torres and Crouch both have unique abilities. Kuyt & Voronin are both hard working strikers that play quite deep, defend from the front and can pass the ball quite well. I dont see that much of a difference between them and don't think we need both.[/QUOTE]

Sell Voronin then.

Nunu

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Tusky wrote: »

Sarcasm I take it ? Honestly though. Torres and Crouch both have unique abilities. Kuyt & Voronin are both hard working strikers that play quite deep, defend from the front and can pass the ball quite well. I dont see that much of a difference between them and don't think we need both.[/QUOTE]

Sell Voronin then.

You might have to wait till the summer to sell him though because isn't there a rule that you can't sell a bosman signing in his first season?

Zapp Brannigan

No way is Rafa leaving/being sacked. He still has the Kop and if the Americans know anything about LFC, it should be that you don't upset the Kop.

Mental Mickey

Was just looking at a video from Sky Sports of some journalists discussing Rafa.

One of em says that Rafa was trying to make the point to the fans, that, by wearing his tracksuit instead of his usual suit, he is no longer in charge of the team, and is just the trainer.

Toys out of the pram stuff.

~Rebel~

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Was just looking at a video from Sky Sports of some journalists discussing Rafa.

One of em says that Rafa was trying to make the point to the fans, that, by wearing his tracksuit instead of his usual suit, he is no longer in charge of the team, and is just the trainer.

Toys out of the pram stuff.

For gods sake, You cant possibly say he's "throwing his toys out of the pram" by wearing a tracksuit!

What people read into it is their own business, but its really not fair to put any weight into as innocuous accusations as this. He didn't say anythign petulent or bad in that interview, he was quite cheery, he whoreheartedly stated that both he and Hicks each had the best interests of the club at heart. He just wore a tracksuit for gods sake.

Mental Mickey

~Rebel~ wrote: »

For gods sake, You cant possibly say he's "throwing his toys out of the pram" by wearing a tracksuit!

mike65

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

He still has the Kop and if the Americans know anything about LFC, it should be that you don't upset the Kop.

Yes, but they don't know the Kop. They just say complimentary things about the LFC faithful.

Mike.

~Rebel~

Right now we're really at a stage where we need Rick Parry to be doing his job. I just hope he's up to it.

Mental Mickey

Very true, Rebel. Otherwise it could turn nasty.

Tusky

Nunu wrote: »

Mental Mickey wrote: »

You might have to wait till the summer to sell him though because isn't there a rule that you can't sell a bosman signing in his first season?

Yeah. Im not suggesting either of them are sold now but if Rafa wants to replace a striker, It has to to be one of them. Rafa likes to have different options, they seem to offer the same option. Put it this way...15 minutes left in a game, scored tied at 0-0. Kuyt has failed to score all game. Rafa wants to change the game...bringing on Voronin to replace him is hardly going to achieve that.

Tusky

HashSlinging wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_2919880,00.html

Hardly new...its all based around his comment after the game yesterday. Its amazing how the media can put a spin on things.

Mental Mickey

"Rick Parry will be looking after signing players".


Smacks a bit of what happened/is happening at Chelski.

HashSlinging

Tusky wrote: »

Hardly new...its all based around his comment after the game yesterday. Its amazing how the media can put a spin on things.

I know, we should really have a Liverpool Facts and Discussion thread.

Mr Alan

as far as i am aware, Jose cannot manage in the PL until mid 2009 or some such, part of the massive compensation deal he got from Chelsea. The story sounds wayyyy too sensationalist for my liking. The americans might be impressed with Jose's CV but any sort of investigation further into it would reveal that Liverpool fans in general, the ones who pay hundreds a year for a season ticket, trips to the game, dont want him anywhere near the club, the americans will not alienate the very people they need on their side in order for them to return LFC to its former greatness.
Bascombe has obviously been hurt by the reaction he has recieved from the people of merseyside since his move to the NOTW and the majority of his articles about Liverpool since he left have stunk of bitterness towards the club. Good riddance, if this turns out to be nonsense, which i very much think it will, i hope Bascombe gets the sack and the Echo tell him to go **** himself if he wants his job back.

If Rafa goes, it sets our club back 10 years.

Mr Alan

STATEMENT FROM GILLETT AND HICKS
Paul Eaton 25 November 2007

Liverpool co-Chairmen George Gillett and Tom Hicks have today released the following statement.
"Despite speculation in today's newspapers, there is nothing new to say.

"We had a good win yesterday and have got some very important games coming up starting with Porto on Wednesday, followed by Bolton and Reading, before Marseille and Manchester United in a few weeks.

"Both of us, together with Chief Executive Rick Parry, plan to meet with Rafa when we come over mid December to make decisions on the team's requirements at that time."

Ruskie4Rent

Mr Alan wrote: »

If Rafa goes, it sets our club back 10 years.

How's that? 10 years seems a bit dramatic.

~Rebel~

A new man would come in and be starting from scratch again wanting to set up his own structure, bring in new players etc. Now considering Rafa has signed many many players for the future who are planned to be the stars of tomorrow (pacheco, asterit, idrizaj, bruno etc), the new guy may or may not have plans for these kids, or even know anything about them.

Rafa's input runs right down to every facet of the club at this stage, which makes it very dangerous to lose him suddenly without everything being prepared for a successor.

It might not be a case of 10 years, but it is certainly a few anyway. I think it would be impossible for anything like continuity moving into the next managers term without Rafa's involvement. Probably safe to say he's the only one with the big picture of how everything he's working towards will fit together.

Tusky

Mr Alan wrote: »

STATEMENT FROM GILLETT AND HICKS
Paul Eaton 25 November 2007

Liverpool co-Chairmen George Gillett and Tom Hicks have today released the following statement.
"Despite speculation in today's newspapers, there is nothing new to say.

"We had a good win yesterday and have got some very important games coming up starting with Porto on Wednesday, followed by Bolton and Reading, before Marseille and Manchester United in a few weeks.

"Both of us, together with Chief Executive Rick Parry, plan to meet with Rafa when we come over mid December to make decisions on the team's requirements at that time."

Doesn't fill me with confidence. I felt they could have said a bit more to completely put an end to rumors and also put something in about backing Rafa.

Mental Mickey

Me neither. I wonder what odds are available on Rafa being the next manager to be sacked/resign from his position?

zing

Absolutely no public show of support towards Rafa in either statement or the interview with Hicks - not good really. They may have their differences but that doesn't mean they can't show support for him - there's more than just financial suppot for them to offer.

As for Parry looking after the signing of players - that's always the way it's been so no big deal there. He's the one holding the money bag so he's always been involved in negotiating deals - how much is in that bag at a given time is down to the owners (past or present) but he's the one holding it all the same.

hehe - when I glanced back over what I'd just written there I noticed I'd said 'money back' instead of 'money bag'. Corrected it and manged to write the same thing a second time. Many would say the sentance makes sense either way

whatawaster

but they didn't need to make a statement at all. at least it's something. hopefully it's just that they are still pissed off with him, but have no plans to part company.

Unearthly

I can definitly see this situation exploding over the season.

Incidentally I do agree with Benitez, but he shouldn't be going public.

PHB

the americans will not alienate the very people they need on their side in order for them to return LFC to its former greatness.

I don't see how firing Rafa would do that? Ultimately these fans will support the club. The only real way they'll leave is through massive increases in prices. Owners don't need support from the fans, all they need is their money, which they'll get.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

I don't see how firing Rafa would do that? Ultimately these fans will support the club. The only real way they'll leave is through massive increases in prices. Owners don't need support from the fans, all they need is their money, which they'll get.

not if they destabilise the club and we don't get into the cl they won't. With Blackburn, Pompey and City all looking good, it would be entirely possible to finish outside the top 4 without rafa.

PHB

In terms of alienating the fans which is what Mr. Alan was talking about. While Rafa is a good coach, I don't think firing him would push Liverpool outside the top 4. They are too far ahead of the other teams. I think another manager would ensure CL qualification easily enough.

Managers that would be instantly availible? Capello?

Tusky

Theres a BIG show of support for Rafa planned for this wed and an even bigger one for the utd game which the owners will be attending. I think it would be very hard for them to sack Rafa after that. What I would be more worried about is Rafa leaving. I dont see what the problem is, why wont they just let him do it his way ? According to him, hes not even looking for money, just wants control of who he is buying & selling.

whatawaster

I don't think he will be sacked but I do think it would be a disaster if he was, as he has completely overhauled the clubs scouting networks, youth system etc. it's a long-term strategy and it would be back to square one with a new coach.

Stky10

PHB wrote: »

Managers that would be instantly availible? Capello?

61 years old, and not a word of english to him?. Doubt it.

From what I see going on in different fora, there's going to be a massive display of support for Rafa from the fans over the next few matches. Ultimately I think the yanks are smart enough business people to realise that its not good business practice to pi$$ off your customers, especially when you know so little about the business, and the person you're sacking is a relative genius in the field.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Wll be at the next couple, support will be nice and loud in the kop.

~Rebel~

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Wll be at the next couple, support will be nice and loud in the kop.

where's the sandon that everyone's meeting at? just so i can see about getting involved in this march as well

redspider

First off, I have to say it was a good result over the weekend. A nice win, although Newcastle were poor. Torres looked good, and even though he didnt score he is doing the right things. Gerrard answered his critics and got over the England WC knockout 'hangover' in the best way possible. I hope he can get over England and move on. At times he is too much 'in love' with England for my liking as a Liverpool follower. In that case I would prefer it to be club over cuntry (sic!). ;-)

All in all a good weekend at the office and a basis for a difficult period ahead. Although Newcastle are arguably the weakest team (by the way, I was surprised by the venom Toon fans showed to Alardyce, as he is only there a short time really.)

Lucas did well, he needs match practice but is shaping up okay. I didnt see enough of the match in detail to assess Kewell but he was quiet. Babel was much better when he came on. Sissoko was by all accounts woeful, but that doesnt surprise me. Kuyt put in effort but no product and I think he is stuck in headless chicken syndrome. The backs were safe, a simple win really.

Q: Alonso wasnt on the bench. I thought he was back from injury, or?


The disconcerting thing at Liverpool of course is the rift between Owner(s) and Benitez. Parry is obviously stuck in the middle but has been around for too long to support a manager to the detriment of his relationship with his employer. Rafa can get another job elswhere but Parry as an administator less so. I dont blame him for supporting the new owners.

The fact that the spat is public shows how serious it is. A few weeks ago there was talk of a division between the two owners. There are clearly money issues behind all this. The stadium is a large burden to carry, and could strangle the club if it goes awry and costs over-run. Its a fine balance between keeping the club succesful (and in the CL) and bringing in money and spending it on capacity, etc. Its the classical spinning plates or juggling balls problem, something could drop.

I think the Owners are also stamping their authority. It is their club, after all. Rafa will do as they say, not as he wants to do, and they want to do things differently. They also feel that they have already invested/spent for this season. I am sure that the advice they received at the start of the summer was that the best time of the year for investments was the summer transfer window and not the January one. With that, Liverpool (Gillet and Hicks) invested in buying players. All seemed rosey. So being asked to change things again (salaries have to be paid even for free transfers) is a bit too much for them, also perhaps culturally. The sports they are involved in in the US doesnt have this mid-season movement.

> why wont they just let him do it his way ? According to him, hes not even looking for money, just wants control of who he is buying & selling.

But that's it. The Owners have and want to control. I think it is clear that Rafa likes chopping and changing, not only on a weekly basis but on a seasonal basis, and we have seen loads of players coming in and leaving under Benitez's time at Liverpool. He wants to do that, he feels that is his skill, assessing players, selecting them, obscure players even, and moulding them together in formations, many different formations and options, and rarely playing the same 11 twice. Its his way, and I dont think he is going to change what he feels is the only way to run a top football club.

So, what will happen? On a personal level, if the people fall out among themselves and relationships break down, then Rafa will be let go or will go. A bad working relationship can only continue for so long. But things could be patched up. I'm sure Parry wants to see it patched up. The Yanks probably do as well, and things might be announced once again as rosey, saying something like "a misunderstanding happened due to timing". Rafa may get a chance for him to tinker, get a player or two, etc, but probably not the list of 10 or whatever he has already given them.

But it could go either way. I would be surprised though if he left, because even for the Yanks they wouldnt want to be seen to be buying a club and upsetting it so much so soon. They know that the fans would be upset in the main, and they fully understand that it is the fans that support this 'franchise'.

The Yanks arent at every match which is unusual for Owners in this day and age and so are removed from day-to-day meetings and personal time with Rafa. This doesnt help, absent landlords never do!

My expectation and hope is that things will settle up. And I for one would not be happy if Mourinho was appointed as manager. Neither would Rafa .....

Redspider

Brando_ie

All of this Rafa stuff does seem a little petulant and totally unnecessary, but that said, to effectively deal in the transfer market really does involve a fair bit of groundwork and it would seem a bit pointless scouting players of a certain price bracket only to be informed that the funds you were expecting are not available. It would be actually better to have NO funds (and save it for a close season bit of clout) than be forced to back peddle and try to get some cheap lads. Since the purchase of Torres it has done a lot to highlight just how mediocre a lot of current Liverpool FC players are. It has been so long since we have had a few decent quality players and I had kinda forgot that being an okay player isn't really good enough for Liverpool FC.

I have a decent amount of support for Rafa despite not being a fan of his rotation policy. I think he is committed to the long term success of the team and would have a great deal of interest in seeing if his purchases of youth players pays off (which it will undoubtedly not do if he is removed). I like Rafa tendency to bring players in who he thinks will do a job and then sell them on if it doesn't work out before they devalue significantly. During the Newcastle game I was half expecting a chorus of.....

Coaching and training
Theres only coaching and training
Cooachhhing and trainnnnnning
theres only coaching and training.....

Which would have been well funny ( and typically scouse ) At this stage, I hope we get to Christmas with a decent return on what should be a relatively winnable period, a win against ManU (long overdue) which should ramp up the pressure to trust Rafa to add a quality (and by quality I mean, title chasing quality..... Not simply okay) player or two, secure Masch and put the toys back into the pram.

PHB

I think the issue is about money. Rafa wants more money than the owners are willing to give him. This is a sort of public ultimatum. My gut thinks that the owners don't think that Rafa has spent the money given to him well enough. We can have the debate about spending lots and lots, and I accept that he was constrained in terms of what he had to work with, but these guys are business men, and they will look at hard figures. Rafa has spent a net total of 78 million since his arrival, in comparision to Fergies 83 or Wengers net gain of 480,000. Even if they don't compare him to Fergie, compared to Wenger he's been a failure.

If Rafa does the business between now and the 16th (straight wins in the CL, and straight wins in the PL bar the United game) I think he'll get the money. If he doesn't I think he won't get the money, but I don't think he'll get fired (6 million in compensation isn't something to be laughed at). However if he doesn't get the money, I think he'll want to 'leave' of his own accord (probably for around 2-3 million).

mike65

The more reading I do (and I was willing to belive/hope for the best), it looks like this has gone beyond anything to do with money or the day-to-day running of the team. Its now a straightfoward duel and the owner always wins that head-to-head.

Rafa might keep his job until May if the results are good after that its proberly "Goodbye" from the Yanks.

The message from G&H is shut up and win games and Benitiez would do well to do that if he doesn't want to be gone by January. What a mess.

Mike.

whatawaster

PHB wrote: »

I think the issue is about money. Rafa wants more money than the owners are willing to give him. This is a sort of public ultimatum. My gut thinks that the owners don't think that Rafa has spent the money given to him well enough. We can have the debate about spending lots and lots, and I accept that he was constrained in terms of what he had to work with, but these guys are business men, and they will look at hard figures. Rafa has spent a net total of 78 million since his arrival, in comparision to Fergies 83 or Wengers net gain of 480,000. Even if they don't compare him to Fergie, compared to Wenger he's been a failure.

If Rafa does the business between now and the 16th (straight wins in the CL, and straight wins in the PL bar the United game) I think he'll get the money. If he doesn't I think he won't get the money, but I don't think he'll get fired (6 million in compensation isn't something to be laughed at). However if he doesn't get the money, I think he'll want to 'leave' of his own accord (probably for around 2-3 million).

But for the owners to come out and say we spent far more money than ever before this summer is just a plain lie. We took in around 25 million from sales, got to the final of the CL, and have the benefit of new sponsorship and TV money. So in fact, the owners have barely dipped into their own pockets at all.


I also get the impression from what Rafa has said, that he isn't looking for a lot or even any money. Reading between the lines he wants to offload a couple of players (Crouch 10m, Carson 10m, Riise 6 million, Sissoko 6 million) and could bring in over 30 million. As far as I see it the only absolutely necessary moves we have to make in the january window are Mascherano at 17m and a versatile defender, possibly Garay at 10 million. If just those deals were done it wouldn't cost us a penny. Of course a striker/winger would be very nice, and I think it's not unfair of Rafa to ask for the funds to buy one.

I'm extremely concerned at the moment. There is only one reason the owners would try and stop comings (free) and goings. On that basis it's not looking good for Rafa, though I hope i'm wrong.

spockety

Watching Arsenal spraying the ball around, you can say that everybody is a bloody failure compared to Wenger.

The guy is obviously a genius for chrissakes.

PHB

whatawaster wrote: »

But for the owners to come out and say we spent far more money than ever before this summer is just a plain lie. We took in around 25 million from sales, got to the final of the CL, and have the benefit of new sponsorship and TV money. So in fact, the owners have barely dipped into their own pockets at all.

Total spending in the last four years:

£49,950,000
£29,500,000
£30,150,000
£32,500,000

Net spending in the last four years:

£24,150,000
£9,930,000
£12,500,000
£16,750,000

There was a significant increase, both in spending and in net spend. There was an increase in revenue certainly, but that was always planned for I'd imagine. Also, while you got to the CL final, there's quite a difference between the spending the summer after you won it and last summer.

I also get the impression from what Rafa has said, that he isn't looking for a lot or even any money. Reading between the lines he wants to offload a couple of players (Crouch 10m, Carson 10m, Riise 6 million, Sissoko 6 million) and could bring in over 30 million. As far as I see it the only absolutely necessary moves we have to make in the january window are Mascherano at 17m and a versatile defender, possibly Garay at 10 million. If just those deals were done it wouldn't cost us a penny. Of course a striker/winger would be very nice, and I think it's not unfair of Rafa to ask for the funds to buy one.

It's not unfair I think either. Gettting rid of those players, signing Mascherano and a new winger/striker/both would be a great bit of business for Liverpool in general. However, you hit the nail on the head

I'm extremely concerned at the moment. There is only one reason the owners would try and stop comings (free) and goings.

If they don't think Rafa can do the job, then they are gona let a new manager make those decisions. I think it's now up to Rafa to get the results. If he does, I think he'll get the funds and the backing. If he doesn't, he'll be gone.

Of course everybody is a failure apart from Wenger, of course he's a genius, but maybe the owners think there's another genius out there.

Chardee MacDennis

phb what does the last four years have to do with the current owners. if they are unhappy about the money that has been spent, it is from the summer alone. can people please stop harping on about how much rafa has spent since he has been at the club - we know the figures at this stage.

if the current owners are unhappy about money spent before they arrived then there is big issues at the club and Rafa wont last long, as they are obviously looking for any excuse to get rid of him...

whatawaster

Total spending in the last four years:

£49,950,000
£29,500,000
£30,150,000
£32,500,000

Net spending in the last four years:

£24,150,000
£9,930,000
£12,500,000
£16,750,000

There was a significant increase, both in spending and in net spend. There was an increase in revenue certainly, but that was always planned for I'd imagine. Also, while you got to the CL final, there's quite a difference between the spending the summer after you won it and last summer.

But an increase in line with most of the rest of the division. Fulham, Sunderland, Tottenham, Man Utd, Portsmouth, West Ham all increased their spending by as much if not more than us.

It's not unfair I think either. Gettting rid of those players, signing Mascherano and a new winger/striker/both would be a great bit of business for Liverpool in general. However, you hit the nail on the head



If they don't think Rafa can do the job, then they are gona let a new manager make those decisions. I think it's now up to Rafa to get the results. If he does, I think he'll get the funds and the backing. If he doesn't, he'll be gone.

Of course everybody is a failure apart from Wenger, of course he's a genius, but maybe the owners think there's another genius out there.

Well i'd love to know where they'll find this genius to manage the Merseyside Reds, given their in-dept knowledge of world football. I have no faith in Rick Parry either to find someone. I think Rafa is right to want to control every aspect of the club. Everyone else there seems to be clueless.

Will Mourinho come in and unearth 18 year old gems from all over the world? He has no track record in that regard.

PHB

phb what does the last four years have to do with the current owners. if they are unhappy about the money that has been spent, it is from the summer alone. can people please stop harping on about how much rafa has spent since he has been at the club - we know the figures at this stage.

I was directly responding to a statement by somebody else specifically about that.

But an increase in line with most of the rest of the division. Fulham, Sunderland, Tottenham, Man Utd, Portsmouth, West Ham all increased their spending by as much if not more than us.

Definately. I'm just saying that there has been an increase which is what the owners are saing.

Will Mourinho come in and unearth 18 year old gems from all over the world? He has no track record in that regard.

I'd agree with you. However I guess they figure that even though Wenger might be special, Rafa has had a lot to spend and hasn't done the business. There are lots of reasons for that, no doubt, but people who have this much money to buy a football club don't want excuses, they want results. I'd imagine they don't see themselves as having no knowledge of the football world, and I'd imagine they are being advised by a lot of people with knowledge of the football world, which I think they will listen to (whether rightly or wrongly)

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I think the issue is about money. Rafa wants more money than the owners are willing to give him. This is a sort of public ultimatum. My gut thinks that the owners don't think that Rafa has spent the money given to him well enough. We can have the debate about spending lots and lots, and I accept that he was constrained in terms of what he had to work with, but these guys are business men, and they will look at hard figures. Rafa has spent a net total of 78 million since his arrival, in comparision to Fergies 83 or Wengers net gain of 480,000. Even if they don't compare him to Fergie, compared to Wenger he's been a failure.

If Rafa does the business between now and the 16th (straight wins in the CL, and straight wins in the PL bar the United game) I think he'll get the money. If he doesn't I think he won't get the money, but I don't think he'll get fired (6 million in compensation isn't something to be laughed at). However if he doesn't get the money, I think he'll want to 'leave' of his own accord (probably for around 2-3 million).

I would have been inclined to agree but Rafa came out publicly and said that he wasn't being allowed to move on two free transfers. This indicates that while money may be part of the problem theres also the fact that he is not being given the control to buy & sell as he pleases. Even if the players are free. That is ridiculous. Fair enough, I can understand the Americans not wanting to pump money in until they have a better idea of what we are recouping but why not allow him to move on free transfers ?

~Rebel~

Its a terrible working environment from the get-go the way they have it now. A manager and ownder/chairman really shouldn't be This out of contact with each other. To have to wait days, let alone Weeks for important talks upon which the success of the season may hinge is a bit of a joke. Its bad enough them not being at many games, but in all fairness, im sure a bit of web conferencing could be organised.

im sure Rafa is being very subborn over this whole thing, but Hicks seems just as bad, if not worse. i think its a case of the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Except that the immovable object pays the unstoppable forces wages! Until something really solid comes out, im still gonna remain hopeful that things can be rectified between them and hopefully face to face meetings can sort them out.

One things for sure, we really need the players to stand up and be counted for Rafa now.

A bit of a saving grace could be that Rafa's signings from this summer have done well so far. Torres has been sensational, Lucas looks to be a definate star of the future, Benayoun has made some vital contributions and Babel has really started showing what he can do as well. Considering the ages of Lucas and Babel there's a lot to be happy about.


<Edit>
Tusky i was wondering about his use of the word free actually. Im not sure if he meant free as in cost nothing, or free as in available i.e interested in a transfer, coming into end of contract so have clubs willing to sell etc. Either way though he shouldn't be needing to wait 2 weeks for confirmation on if he can at least persue a few purchases and sales.

whatawaster

Tusky wrote: »

I would have been inclined to agree but Rafa came out publicly and said that he wasn't being allowed to move on two free transfers. This indicates that while money may be part of the problem theres also the fact that he is not being given the control to buy & sell as he pleases. Even if the players are free. That is ridiculous. Fair enough, I can understand the Americans not wanting to pump money in until they have a better idea of what we are recouping but why not allow him to move on free transfers ?

the only two explanations are that a) they are incredibly stupid or b) they are unsure about Rafa or have already decided that his future lies away from the club and don't want to bring in players that someone else won't want or get rid of players that a new manager will want to keep.

Tusky

PHB wrote: »

I'd agree with you. However I guess they figure that even though Wenger might be special, Rafa has had a lot to spend and hasn't done the business.

What do you mean he hasnt done the business Two champions league finals & one trophy, fa cup & highest ever total of premier league points. Up until now, we haven't been competing in the league but this season we have a game on hand on utd and if it is won, we are in second place! You can add the fact that we have the best squad we have had...for over a decade at least. He IS doing the business in my opinion.

What annoys me is that the yanks went on and on when they bought the club that Rafa had a plan that was long term over many seasons. They urged the supporters to be patient, saying that success in the league may take a few years and it wouldn't be an instant thing. Now it seems that they are the ones who have become impatient and its not even December yet.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Tusky i was wondering about his use of the word free actually. Im not sure if he meant free as in cost nothing, or free as in available i.e interested in a transfer, coming into end of contract so have clubs willing to sell etc. Either way though he shouldn't be needing to wait 2 weeks for confirmation on if he can at least persue a few purchases and sales.

Yeah I thought this too but he elaborated on it with 'free as in, they cost nothing, I'm not looking to spend money' or something along those lines. I could dig up the quote but it would be alot of effort.