Liverpool Rumours And General Discussion 2007/2008

zing

Kahka Kaladze yet again helps to ruin Rafa's plans..

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=kahka-kaladze-transfer-row-behind-a-crisis%26method=full%26objectid=20163405%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-seeks-a-truce-with-american-owners%26method=full%26objectid=20163385%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

At least he seems to be backing down somewhat here which will be a relief for all involved. Just hope it's not too little too late...

Edit: It's also playing more to the supporters - he's always had 'public opinion' on his side here and by being seen to offer an olive branch he add to that even further - thus making it increasingly harder for Hicks (where's Gillet in all of this ?) to sack him.

PHB

Well like, I really don't want to get into this argument Tusky, but if you look at this season so far, it started very well, Rafa was doing great, Liverpool ahead of two title rivals. Then had a serious bad patch, Liverpool now behind two titles rivals, in a bad situation requiring two tough wins in the CL.

If he comes up trumps and by the 16th of December has had a lot of wins in a row and a decent result in the United game, then he will get the money he wants. (which to be honest, I can see happening, except for the United result ) If not, he'll be told no.

This seems to be pretty reasonable. The issue is however, that Rafa doens't like this (understandably so). Rafa was the one who brought it into the press, not the owners. Rafa is using the press to try and influence his owners, which really hasn't helped his situation at all, as it's not particuarly a professional thing to do.

shotamoose

zing wrote: »

Kahka Kaladze yet again helps to ruin Rafa's plans..

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=kahka-kaladze-transfer-row-behind-a-crisis%26method=full%26objectid=20163405%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_headline=rafa-benitez-seeks-a-truce-with-american-owners%26method=full%26objectid=20163385%26siteid=50061-name_page.html

At least he seems to be backing down somewhat here which will be a relief for all involved. Just hope it's not too little too late...

My guess is that (hopefully with a bit of help from results on the pitch) tempers will cool and the owners will (a) be mollified by Rafa's enthusiastic back-tracking in the story above and (b) will realise that getting rid of him will set LFC back years. Despite being one of the 'negative ****ers' (thank you Mr Alan) I'm now cautiously optimistic!

el rabitos

i dont think the pair of owners are knowledgeable enough about "soccer" to be in a position to know when the time is to be sacking managers. god help them and us if we're relying on rick parry to be the brains of the club.

the only good news so far is that by all indications rafa doesnt look like he has any desire to walk out a la valencia. so he'll have to be pushed, and if he's pushed the sh!t will hit the kop...er i mean the fan.

over 2 weeks is a long time to have question marks hanging over a manager. i'd like to see some public backing for rafa before the 16th of december. but if we lose to utd at anfield, then by all means sack everyone

Kanney

Surely they can't get rid of Rafa. I don't think there is any manager out there available that could do a better job than he is. Bolton, Reading, Porto and Marseille. We can win them all, and that should give the owners enough confidence to keep him. He has worked wonders. I mean Traore getting a Champions League medal is one thing. I think we can get a positive result from Man Utd too, I know they will have Rooney and Ronaldo back, but their performance on Saturday shows that without those two, even have them marked out the game can help us.
Their is a certain air of Abramovich running Chelsea on the pitch, as to Hicks/Gillett running Liverpool on the pitch... I think Rick Parry will be the solution. He has always backed Rafa.

PiE

Parry the solution? I'd put more faith in Parry being the problem.

zAbbo

The manager has got a few transfers that he wants to get done, one in January and two Bosmans in the summer but it looks like he is going to miss out on the first one now.

"That frustrated him because the first one was a centre half, a position he feels we really need back-up in.

from BBC.

whatawaster

at least it looks like rafa might be backing down. That is something.

zing

whatawaster wrote: »

at least it looks like rafa might be backing down. That is something.

Unfortunately his authority has been publicly undermined (partially his own doing) and the owners/board of the club have not offered yet any form of public support for him through all of this. Whatever about the short term it leaves questions about his long term future at the club.

For now those heading to the match should join the RTK march before the game to show their support for Rafa.

Dub13

Emergency We Want Rafa Protest Weds Night


The RTK is helping organise the demo on Wednesday:

We are calling on all supporters of Liverpool FC to demonstrate their unconditional support of the Rafael Beneitz this Wednesday. Rafa is far and away the most important figure at Anfield - bar none. Under his guidance the club has appeared in 2 European Cup finals in the little over 3 years that he has been manager. We currently stand well placed in the title race and remain undefeated.

Rafael Benitez also needs the full support of his employers. It is Rafa's job not only to train and coach the players, but also to be proactive and decisive in acquiring new ones. Bill Shankly turned down the Liverpool job in the early 1950s because he was told it would not be his job to sign new players. It was only when he was promised a free reign in the selection of his squad that he agreed to become manager of Liverpool FC. Rafael Benitez deserves similar support from our current owners.

If you want to pledge your support publicly for Rafa Benitez then join us on Wednesday evening at 6:30pm, outside the Sandon pub on Oakfield Road, close to The Kop. If you have any Rafa flags and banners then please bring them along. We then urge you to continue your support of Rafa during this crucial European Cup game by singing and chanting his name . We call on all Liverpool supporters to unite and publicly display their devotion to our manager.

Rafa needs us, and we owe him every ounce of love and support that we can possibly muster.

Remember: Liverpool Football Club exists not to make money - it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for it's supporters. It serves no other purpose.

Hala Rafa!

Jesus Wept

Dub13 wrote:

Remember: Liverpool Football Club exists not to make money - it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for it's supporters. It serves no other purpose.

Hala Rafa!

heh, I wish that was the case.

Dub13

Molby/Thomson/Whelan

We just got an extra supply of tickets for this gig,if anybody is interested PM me asap.

Tusky

The-Rigger wrote: »

heh, I wish that was the case.

Errr...I didnt say that, how come it says you are quoting me ?

Jesus Wept

Tusky wrote: »

Errr...I didnt say that, how come it says you are quoting me ?

errr I have no idea, I hit quote and deleted most of the speech except that bit....

hmmm, I'll edit it.

Tusky

The-Rigger wrote: »

errr I have no idea, I hit quote and deleted most of the speech except that bit....

hmmm, I'll edit it.

You better....or else.

IrishMike

Tusky wrote: »

You better....or else.

Lol unleash the fury tusky!

whatawaster

On LFC TV now they are taking calls and talking quite openly about the Rafa/Hicks situation. It could get very interesting.

Zapp Brannigan

Watching it now. Interesting that they're so confident about Rafa staying.

mike65

Keep us up to date.

Mike.

whatawaster

It's all very strange. There's a notice on the official website asking for contributors to the show to talk about Newcastle, Porto and new signings in January.

a couple of things -

1. From the moment the show started it was perfectly clear there was only one thing going to be discussed in the phone in.

2 I can't remember posts like that on the website in previous weeks though I may be wrong.

3 Both panelists seem quite pro rafa. I wonder how happy Hicks / Gillet would be about all this. A bit of revolution at LFC TV perhaps.

4 that guy read seems very in the loop, and seems very very worried and is trying not to show it too much.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Posts like that are up there every week. Mentioning that the phone in is on and the topics.

whatawaster

oh didn't realise.

Brethitmanhart

http://www.petitiononline.com/amg83ds/petition.html

I know petitions get an awful doing from the pessimists but it only takes a couple of seconds to do and if there is a massive massive amount of signatures then G&H will know as businessmen that they need to have a cooperative relationship with the fans if they want to achieve their goals.

BTW, This petition is going around all the Liverpool boards and is rising in numbers rapidly.

Dub13

Brethitmanhart wrote: »

http://www.petitiononline.com/amg83ds/petition.html

BTW, This petition is going around all the Liverpool boards and is rising in numbers rapidly.

Yea we have it on IrishKop,but well I don't think anybody takes much notice of them.

spockety

A few of the lads on RAWK are doing up a large banner for the Porto match that says:

"AS ALWAYS WE ARE FOCUSSED ON SUPPORTING OUR MANAGER"

Should be down the front of the Kop.

el rabitos

spockety wrote: »

"AS ALWAYS WE ARE FOCUSSED ON SUPPORTING OUR MANAGER"

legendary

i think we'd really miss rafa's yoda-like backwards english if he left.
always we say for sure you must have good possibilitys....

in fact, i kinda doubt he speaks english at all...that ^^ is usually his answer to most questions

interviewer: so rafa, how do u expect the game to go

rafa: you know us, always we try to win if possible, no?

interviewer: and rafa this is a particularly tough tie for your team

rafa: for sure yes, and always we like to have good possibilitys to win

interviewer: and stevie gerrard is playing on the right tonight, how do u expect him to do tonight

rafa: always with stevie he gives us good posibilitys no?, and for sure if he plays well, always we can win.

so after almost 4 years in charge i'm pretty sure rafa really only knows the words "possible", "possibility", "always we say" and "for sure" and just fits other bits and pieces of words around them to form sentences :eek:

mike65

He lost his Spanish/English phasebook except for chapter "P"

The atmosphere before the Porto game should be awesome, I guess G&H will be watching on ESPN or whoever. Wonder if it'll make the point for them?

Mike.

darkskol

el rabitos wrote: »

so after almost 4 years in charge i'm pretty sure rafa really only knows the words "possible", "possibility", "always we say" and "for sure" and just fits other bits and pieces of words around them to form sentences :eek:

So true Actually laughed when I thought about it

lordgoat

mike65 wrote: »

The atmosphere before the Porto game should be awesome, I guess G&H will be watching on ESPN or whoever. Wonder if it'll make the point for them?

Mike.

You're assuming that they will listen to the supporters and won't be tucked up in bed!

Not saying this to cause trouble but how many chelsea fans wanted jose gone and look at the situation 3 months on. Fans don't have as much power as they used to, much like farmers in this country!

If he is sacked it would be remarkedly stupid though.

Dont be at yourself

Rafa has pled his case and extended the olive branch. If the Americans keep pushing it down this road, then Carra or Gerrard or another senior player has to voice support for Rafa. Sacking him would be the abolute worst thing that could happen to Liverpool Football Club.

There'll be some atmosphere tomorrow!

kida

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Rafa has pled his case and extended the olive branch. If the Americans keep pushing it down this road, then Carra or Gerrard or another senior player has to voice support for Rafa. Sacking him would be the abolute worst thing that could happen to Liverpool Football Club.

There'll be some atmosphere tomorrow!

Yeah but you can't just have public spats with your bosses and then decide you want a truce. He has gone too far by going public. If they back down it looks like they are not in control and that Benitez is the boss.

zing

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Carra or Gerrard or another senior player has to voice support for Rafa.

imo they should do that anyway - no one else at the club seems willing to.

As for the fans being powerless - maybe but Liverpool fans have always had a significant voice when they've wanted to get a message across - just look at Jan 6th last year. Not suggesting that they're unique in that regard but they do know how to get a message across.

Whether or not they watch the game tomorrow night doesn't matter - they'll get the message regardless even if just from reading press coverage of the game.

I'll be at the game tomorrow night and I'll defo be showing my support for Rafa

yom 1

kida wrote: »

Yeah but you can't just have public spats with your bosses and then decide you want a truce. He has gone too far by going public. If they back down it looks like they are not in control and that Benitez is the boss.

Its been said before a few pages back Rafa didnt make this public, he just kept repeating the same thing over and over again. Fair enough it was obvious something pissed him off, but it wasnt until Hicks came out and made a statement about what Rafa said that this situation got out of contol.

Anyway I'll have to send telepathic messages of support to help the Kop faithful as I wont be there so here's a start

IN RAFA WE TRUST

kida

yom 1 wrote: »

Its been said before a few pages back Rafa didnt make this public, he just kept repeating the same thing over and over again. Fair enough it was obvious something pissed him off, but it wasnt until Hicks came out and made a statement about what Rafa said that this situation got out of contol.

Anyway I'll have to send telepathic messages of support to help the Kop faithful as I wont be there so here's a start

IN RAFA WE TRUST

His ramblings at the press confererenc was the start of it. He then continued on Saturday with his outburst about them not understanding the transfer window.

PHB

yom 1 wrote: »

he just kept repeating the same thing over and over again.

Why do you think he did this?

zing

zing wrote: »

imo they should do that anyway - no one else at the club seems willing to.

Actually that's not altogether true - word is that Mascherano is sticking by the person who brought him to Anfield and has suggested that he may not commit his future to the club if Rafa were to leave.

yom 1

kida wrote: »

His ramblings at the press confererenc was the start of it. He then continued on Saturday with his outburst about them not understanding the transfer window.

As I said, at the press conference it was clear he was pissed, but nobody knew why. It wasnt until Hicks made his statement that it became public knowledge of what was going on behind closed doors.

Rafa may have continued it but he was always going to be asked questions about it regardless of the result on saturday. And the reason for that is because of Hicks statement!

PHB wrote:

Why do you think he did this?

Im sure he had every intention to show he was pissed off, but if Hicks didn't make a statement it would have been passed off by now as Rafa having a bad day. Hicks made it the story it is. He is to blame for this whole thing.

kida

Benaitez had an agenda at the press conference on Thursday. It was petty what he did.He also could have left it it at that.

Word is this morning the americans are furious with him for insubordination. That is one thing but bringing it into and continuing it in the public domain is not acceptable. In regular business he would be gone by now. What Liverpool fans need to realise they are first and foremost dealing with businessmen now and this type of behavior is not acceptable.

Jesus Wept

kida wrote: »

His ramblings at the press confererenc was the start of it. He then continued on Saturday with his outburst about them not understanding the transfer window.

Not accurate. The start was when Hicks and Gilette put out an odd statement on the club website aimed solely at Rafa.

Not defending the press conference, but it wasn't the first stone.

spockety wrote: »

A few of the lads on RAWK are doing up a large banner for the Porto match that says:

"AS ALWAYS WE ARE FOCUSSED ON SUPPORTING OUR MANAGER"

Should be down the front of the Kop.

Brilliant.

PHB

Ah come on lads. He was baiting them. He was told to concentrate on coaching and the transfer business will be discussed. As such, he responded again and again that 'he was focused on coaching the team'. At which point, the entire world, including this thread, thought something was up. Rafa started this on purpose. He thought the owners would be fearful of losing him. They aren't. They didn't back down, and basically told him where to go. As such, he is now trying to 'offer an olive branch', because it didn't work out as he wanted. But the owners haven't changed their minds as far as we can see, results up to the 16th of December or no money.

mike65

Nice to see Arsene Wenger speaking out about the current madness.

Wenger admits he feels for Benitez, insisting Arsenal have never hindered his attempts in the transfer market, and he sent a scarcely-veiled dig at The Premier League's big-money investors.

“Rafa Benitez has done remarkably well at Liverpool and what is happening there is not down to sport or to results. It is down to internal differences,” Wenger was quoted as saying in The Sun.


“I am fortunate I have had the freedom and the support of my board to work as I want ever since I arrived in England. My directors understand you do not get success without that backing.

“But you need experience to realise that and I am not sure that everyone who has just bought their way into the game can appreciate that.”

Mike.

zing

PHB wrote: »

Ah come on lads. He was baiting them. He was told to concentrate on coaching and the transfer business will be discussed. As such, he responded again and again that 'he was focused on coaching the team'. At which point, the entire world, including this thread, thought something was up. Rafa started this on purpose. He thought the owners would be fearful of losing him. They aren't. They didn't back down, and basically told him where to go. As such, he is now trying to 'offer an olive branch', because it didn't work out as he wanted.

I don't think that press conference by him was a threat to walk (despite the references to the english job). Something significant had just happened - he was late which just isn't like him apparently - and he was clearly pissed off big time. We don't know what it was that happened prior to the press conference but from the interview with Hicks it wasn't that he'd just been told he couldn't sign anyone - the interview suggested that message was delivered a week or two previously. Whatever it was it caused him to throw his toys out of the cot and yes that was incredibly childish but what's done is done.

We're now left in a messy situation with two parties who are stubborn as hell and both hold huge amounts of power within the club - Rafa has backed down a bit and it's now up to Gillet & Hicks to so similar. Then hopefully the issue can be resolved.

Regardless we - the supporters - need to show our support for Rafa. Put it this way ... if a colleague of yours (not aimed at PHB but in general) screwed up big time while ultimately trying to do the right thing would you lend him your support or leave him hanging in the wind ? I know what I'd do and have done in the past..

But the owners haven't changed their minds as far as we can see, results up to the 16th of December or no money.

But there seems to be more to it than that. Why was he told no to bosman signings for next summer or selling players now/next summer ? Only reason that makes sense to me is if his fate had already been decided.

event

sources say the first of it was in Athens, when after the game he went on about he needs more money

Spud83

zing wrote: »

But there seems to be more to it than that. Why was he told no to bosman signings for next summer or selling players now/next summer ? Only reason that makes sense to me is if his fate had already been decided.

Because these bosman signings might be conducted in January. Remember that playes are able to talk to othe clubs 6 months before there contracts are finished ie Jan. So although they might not be joining the club until the summer, the business would need to be done in Jan.

Obviously the owners do not want to sign two players in Jan, for a manager that the are not 100% sure will be there next year. I think this happened with Cisse where Houiller signed him in Jan but was gone by the end of the season and Benitez was stuck with him. I dont think his fate has already been decided, in fact I think it is the complete opposite, which is far worse for the club.

whatawaster

Benitez had better keep his mouth firmly shut during this press conference today or else he and all of us are screwed. Can't see him apologising but i'm sure he'll try and downplay it.

RE*AC*TOR

I would love to be at Anfield tomorrow night. If there was any doubt as to who's side the supporters are on in this debate, there's won't be come kick off.

kida

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

I would love to be at Anfield tonight. If there was any doubt as to who's side the supporters are on in this debate, there's won't be come kick off.

They are businessmen and as with the Glazers at United - Supporters interests will not be that important. Their money is not made by the die-hards who will protest.

PHB

zing wrote: »

I don't think that press conference by him was a threat to walk (despite the references to the english job). Something significant had just happened - he was late which just isn't like him apparently - and he was clearly pissed off big time. We don't know what it was that happened prior to the press conference but from the interview with Hicks it wasn't that he'd just been told he couldn't sign anyone - the interview suggested that message was delivered a week or two previously. Whatever it was it caused him to throw his toys out of the cot and yes that was incredibly childish but what's done is done.

But there seems to be more to it than that. Why was he told no to bosman signings for next summer or selling players now/next summer ? Only reason that makes sense to me is if his fate had already been decided.

I think this is what's happened here:

Rafa was told that he was not getting any more money until the results improved. He was given to the 16th of December as a meeting when it would be discussed.

He wanted to tie up the deal for Kaladze and bosmans next summer, and wanted to start the work on them now. The owners did not want to give him the money, and told him to wait until the 16th.

Rafa got pissed off, went to the press with the whole coaching and training thing.

Gill and Hicks pretty much said what they told Rafa put through the website.

Rafa accuses them of not understanding the transfer window.

Gill and Hicks pretty much again say the same thing. I'm pretty sure they understand the transfer window, but they don't want to give Rafa money, as they aren't sure he is the man to take them to the next level.

Rafa is now beginning to back down, offering an 'olive branch'.

spockety

kida wrote: »

They are businessmen and as with the Glazers at United - Supporters interests will not be that important. Their money is not made by the die-hards who will protest.

People keep comparing it to the Glazers, and the level of protest (or lack thereof) that surrounded that transaction.

It's completely different. I would imagine that Man Utd supporters would have mounted far more serious protests, and in far greater numbers, if Malcolm Glazer had bought the club and then set about removing Alex Ferguson from his post.

Jesus Wept

PHB wrote: »

I think this is what's happened here:

Rafa was told that he was not getting any more money until the results improved. He was given to the 16th of December as a meeting when it would be discussed.

He wanted to tie up the deal for Kaladze and bosmans next summer, and wanted to start the work on them now. The owners did not want to give him the money, and told him to wait until the 16th.

Rafa got pissed off, went to the press with the whole coaching and training thing.

Gill and Hicks pretty much said what they told Rafa put through the website.

Rafa accuses them of not understanding the transfer window.

Gill and Hicks pretty much again say the same thing. I'm pretty sure they understand the transfer window, but they don't want to give Rafa money, as they aren't sure he is the man to take them to the next level.

Rafa is now beginning to back down, offering an 'olive branch'.

The order of that is reversed.

The odd statement on the website aimed at Rafa was the day before the press conference.