Whatevr happened to the 32 county sovereignty?

Colonel Sanders

Just after finsihing reading Peter taylor's book 'Provos'. The issue i have was published before the omagh bombing and he makes references to to the 32 county sovereignty committe and the RIRA in the final chapters. Whatever became of this crowd? Are they still keeping their heads down after the omagh bombing?

Shutuplaura

they are still knocking about as far as i know. they have a website:

http://www.32csm.org/home.html

They claim to be vibrant and growing but I'd take it with a pinch of salt...

quirk.

The 32 County Sovereignty Movement are growing in the wake of the total capitulation by the provisional movement. Republicanism has taken a long time to recover after the massive setback which was the GFA but the recovery has began and no doubt will continue. I believe that the 32CSM will be at the forefront of this.

Fenian

They are growing. A Cumann was formed in Cork last year.

They recently held a unity conference with the IRSP and an ex-POW group (Republicans Network for Unity) to discuss areas of common interest.

They also held their annual Wolfe Tone commemoration with the IRSP and the ex-POW group.

Heres a short video of the leadership of the 32CSM.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-MLDyLJQpY

mike65

Is this a discussion thread or 32CSM pimpage?

Mike.

Colonel Sanders

Fenian wrote:

They recently held a unity conference with the IRSP and an ex-POW group (Republicans Network for Unity) to discuss areas of common interest.

If its the same 'unity' the IRSP/INLA and the official IRA showed each other when Seamus Costello was calling for a united front of all republican groups against British rule we are in for some interesting times.

silverharp

when your ideas have the support of .1% of the population isn't it time to shut up shop. At best these clowns are a parody of the Life of Brian self styled Peoples front of Judea. At worst they are another death cult that will manage to kill some innocent shoppers going about their business.

Fenian

Colonel Sanders wrote:

If its the same 'unity' the IRSP/INLA and the official IRA showed each other when Seamus Costello was calling for a united front of all republican groups against British rule we are in for some interesting times.

There has never been any animosity between the IRSP and the 32CSM.
Both groups recognize that they differ somewhat on an idealistic level, but they are willing to discuss areas of agreement rather than focusing on idealistic differences.

Neither group feel threatened by the other. They both realize that by focusing on areas of agreement they can begin to revitalize and advance Republicanism.

It must be noted that RSF were also invited to the conference, but didn't send any representatives. At their last Ard Fheis they voted against any sort of united front initiative.

quirk.

silverharp wrote:

when your ideas have the support of .1% of the population isn't it time to shut up shop. At best these clowns are a parody of the Life of Brian self styled Peoples front of Judea. At worst they are another death cult that will manage to kill some innocent shoppers going about their business.

The 32CSM is a political organisation which struggles to achieve it's objectives through peaceful means. Instead of talking rubbish why don't you criticise their policies. And as for them shutting up because they have little support do you think Pearse and Connolly should have just done the same back in 1916.

oscarBravo

quirk. wrote:

And as for them shutting up because they have little support do you think Pearse and Connolly should have just done the same back in 1916.

Yes.

Colonel Sanders

The IRSP are a non entity IMO and if they still have links to the INLA (who are nothing but drug dealing thugs and scumbags masquerading as militant republicans) they don't even deserve discussion.

No doubt the 32CSM will see exponential growth over the next 2-3 years. Their number of supporters will probably rise for 4-5 to at least 30

silverharp

quirk. wrote:

And as for them shutting up because they have little support do you think Pearse and Connolly should have just done the same back in 1916.

That is a false argument, the turn of the 20th C had all kinds of reasons why there was the potential for constitutional change in Ireland, none of these exist now. If after the peace process has been completed and your views have little to no support, you are going nowhere. I would give you 100/1 that any of these organisations will ever get an elected TD/MLA in the next50 years

Colonel Sanders

Exactly. I'm sure the combined support base of the IRSP/32CSM/RSF is less than 0.5% of the population of the island of Ireland. However I don't underestimate them, in the danger they pose of their likelihood for trying to make a balls of the peace process. When the likes of Marion Price are supporting them a few other fringe hardliners will surely follow.

The bottom line is violence will not remove Britain from Northern Ireland and the vast, vast, vast majority of the people of Ireland both north and south would not in a million years want to see a return to the dark days ofthe last IRA campaign.

Jackie laughlin

Since when did lack of support ever discourage a blood thirsty "republican"?

Lemming

quirk. wrote:

Republicanism has taken a long time to recover after the massive setback which was the GFA but the recovery has began and no doubt will continue.

Did anyone else pick up on this rather absurd and worrying comment?

WTF? Since when did a bunch of pig-ignorant murdering scum and their equally scum-ranked apologists own a monopoly on "republicanism". Do they (or you?) even understand what that word means, as opposed to what it's been hijacked for on this island?

HOW has the GFA been a "massive setback" for republicanism? More importantly WHY?

A word on "Republicanism", taken from wikipedia. I've taken the liberty of highlighting some points that should be noted in reference to those deluded muppets that blight this country with ignorant teachings of what republicanism is. Corruption is mentioned several times, so that rules out pretty much every single paramilitary group and its associates on this island.

Republicanism is the ideology of governing a nation as a republic, with an emphasis on liberty, rule by the people, and the civic virtue practiced by citizens. Republicanism always stands in opposition to aristocracy, oligarchy, and dictatorship. More broadly, it refers to a political system that protects liberty, especially by incorporating a rule of law that cannot be arbitrarily ignored by the government. Much of the literature deals with the issue of what sort of values and behavior by the citizens is necessary if the republic is to survive and flourish; the emphasis has been on widespread citizen participation, civic virtue, and opposition to corruption.

While republicanism is incompatible with a powerful monarchy, scholars point out it is compatible with a constitutional monarch holding symbolic roles (as in modern Britain, Canada and Japan). In recent years Australians have been debating whether their commitment to republicanism is compatible with their status as a constitutional monarchy.

Advocates of republicanism argue that it demands a citizenry that puts a premium on civil virtue and opposes corruption. Most authors argue that republicanism is incompatible with office holders using public power for personal gain. Many dictatorships have called themselves "republics," but none ever protected liberty or the rights of their citizens.

Fenian

sliverharp wrote:

I would give you 100/1 that any of these organisations will ever get an elected TD/MLA in the next50 years

The 32CSM will never have an elected TD/MP/MLA becuase they are not a political party. They do not stand canidates in elections.

Fratton Fred

Fenian wrote:

The 32CSM will never have an elected TD/MP/MLA becuase they are not a political party. They do not stand canidates in elections.

then what is their purpose?

Fenian

Fratton Fred wrote:

then what is their purpose?

Taken from their constitution.

The objectives of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement are -

(a) The restoration of Irish National Sovereignty.

(b) To seek to achieve unity among the Irish people on the issue of restoring National Sovereignty and to promote the Revolutionary ideals of Republicanism and to this end involve itself in resisting all forms of colonialism and imperialism.

(c) To seek the immediate and unconditional release of all Irish Republican Prisoners throughout the world.

Lemming

Fenian wrote:

The objectives of the 32 County Sovereignty Movement are -

(a) The restoration of Irish National Sovereignty.

Last time I checked this [the Republic of Ireland] was a sovereign state. Not to mention also a R.E.P.U.B.L.I.C.

So what are they whining about exactly?

(b) To seek to achieve unity among the Irish people on the issue of restoring National Sovereignty and to promote the Revolutionary ideals of Republicanism and to this end involve itself in resisting all forms of colonialism and imperialism.

See point #1 about the whole national sovereignty thing. As for the revolutionary ideals of republicanism, which set of ideals would they be referring to? Republicanism covers quite a bit of ground.

As for "resisting" colonialism and imperialism, I guess they'll be happy to stop drinking Guinness or shopping in Tesco since both could be interpreted as economic colonialism by imperialist powers :rolleyes:

(c) To seek the immediate and unconditional release of all Irish Republican Prisoners throughout the world.

Eh ... good f*cking luck on that one old boy ... why should other countries around the world release violent, murderous gombeen muppets for breaking their laws?

Fenian

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

FTA69

oscarBravo wrote:

Yes.

I disagree with you OB, but you're a gas man.

quirk.

silverharp wrote:

That is a false argument, the turn of the 20th C had all kinds of reasons why there was the potential for constitutional change in Ireland, none of these exist now. If after the peace process has been completed and your views have little to no support, you are going nowhere. I would give you 100/1 that any of these organisations will ever get an elected TD/MLA in the next50 years

As republicans we would never seek to get elected to British or free state parliaments. The 32CSM is not a political party anyway and so doesn't participate in elections.

Fratton Fred

quirk. wrote:

As republicans we would never seek to get elected to British or free state parliaments. The 32CSM is not a political party anyway and so doesn't participate in elections.

so if it dosn't seek to get elected, then what does it do, sit around talking? why don't they get off their arses and do something rather than sit around whining?

Jackie laughlin

Fred,
Don't go encouraging these fantasists. If they don't contest elections, then ... yep, here we go again! They will speak for the "Irish People" - not the real living ones but the dead generations and the generations to come. I bet they recognise the revolutionary Dail and nothing subsequent to that.

What could sovereignty possibly mean when Ireland and the UK (needle, needle!) are both members of the EU?

They're talking through their bearna baol!

quirk.

Fratton Fred wrote:

so if it dosn't seek to get elected, then what does it do, sit around talking? why don't they get off their arses and do something rather than sit around whining?

To be active you do not have to be a political party. When the 32CSM was formed a decision was taken not to become a party which contested elections but rather be an organisation which united republicans of differing views on other issues around the common aim of Irish sovereignty.

The 32CSM made a submission to the U.N. contesting the legality of the British presence in Ireland and has recently been highly active in the republican unity initiative. We also were at the forefront of opposing the normalisation process in the 6 counties and opposing the acceptance of the British police force. Indeed if I am not wrong we were the only group to actually offer an alternative to accepting the RUC/PSNI.

Lemming

Fenian wrote:

"Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

Congratulations on discovering the ability to quote other users signatures. Clearly the mark of a towering intellect ...

In other news, your inability to answer the refutal of the 32SC wankfest that they call a constitution and instead resort to a purile attempt at throwing insults shows just how morally, ethically, and philisophically bankrupt your "republican" value set is.

Fenian

Lemming wrote:

Congratulations on discovering the ability to quote other users signatures.

Thank you.

Lemming wrote:

Clearly the mark of a towering intellect ...

I'm the one lacking intelligence?

Lemming wrote:

wankfest

Congratulations on discovering the vocabulary of a 12 year old.

Lemming wrote:

In other news, your inability to answer the refutal of the 32SC wankfest that they call a constitution and instead resort to a purile attempt at throwing insults shows just how morally, ethically, and philisophically bankrupt your "republican" value set is.

The reason I didn't "refute" any of your absurd counter-points to the 32CSM constitution is becuase you have no wish to discuss the subject. Your only wish is to insult and degrade Republicans.

I have no problem debating my Republican ideals or the 32CSM, but only in a civilised manner. You, I'm afraid, are unwilling to do so.

Rock Climber

Lemming and Fenian banned for a month.

The above exchange is a clear example of whats not acceptable around here.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055133811

Fratton Fred

quirk. wrote:

To be active you do not have to be a political party. When the 32CSM was formed a decision was taken not to become a party which contested elections but rather be an organisation which united republicans of differing views on other issues around the common aim of Irish sovereignty.

The 32CSM made a submission to the U.N. contesting the legality of the British presence in Ireland and has recently been highly active in the republican unity initiative. We also were at the forefront of opposing the normalisation process in the 6 counties and opposing the acceptance of the British police force. Indeed if I am not wrong we were the only group to actually offer an alternative to accepting the RUC/PSNI.

So they are a waste of space then. Talking is useless, getting involved in a process of democratic change is the only way forward.

Sleepy

Just tell me these guys haven't got the wherewithall for another Omagh.

quirk.

Fratton Fred wrote:

So they are a waste of space then. Talking is useless, getting involved in a process of democratic change is the only way forward.

Depends what you aim to achieve. If you seek to remove the British from Ireland then participation in constitutional politics is certainly not the way forward. Republicans cannot accept the GFA within it's framework the British presence can legitimately become permanent.