Things don't just happen.

robindch

5uspect wrote:

Seriously, you need to read a science book.

Mena

estebancambias wrote:

Why should I not say God's plan, can you prove it's not?

Playground logic...

Can you prove it is?

estebancambias

Listen to say the theory of evolution was PROVEN to be false is dumb, to have backup to support that the 'theory' of evolution is false, is not a rare thing. Look up anywhere, and you will read facts about how Darwin's theory was wrong. What are you expecting me to do, come up with some undiscovered fact. I said 'the perfect distance from the sun to support lifeform' that is my BACKUP, mine. People have replied with objections which I found interesting.

The Mad Hatter

Sorry, can you please think about what you're typing before you post? Your arguments are confusing at best.

estebancambias

Mena, I said that because it is a stupid question. How can I prove that we are perfect, how can you prove we are not? That is what makes the question stupid, and also what makes this thread very volatile(sp?). It is based on opinion.

Scofflaw

SmellyIrishman wrote:

Are humans perfect?

estebancambias wrote:

Yes. We are what God wanted us to be.

estebancambias wrote:

By the way how can I answer if humans are perfect with back up? How do I know what God wanted?

Ah. You don't know what God wanted, but you know that we are what God wanted us to be? How do you know that, then?

cordially,
Scofflaw

IrishKnight

estebancambias wrote:

'the perfect distance from the sun to support lifeform'

First came earth then came life. Life evolved to suit the universe. Life didn't come about then say, "Oh we need somewhere to stay"

Smellyirishman

estebancambias wrote:

Why should I not say God's plan, can you prove it's not?

No, I cannot, but the vast majority of evidence I have seen in my life leads me to believe that it is the least probable. You argument for God, is that the world is so incredibly designed, that it must have a creator. Yet the world is anything but perfect, the evidence of which is all around us. Why do you accept that earth is "the perfect distance from the sun to support life form."? Surely that was (and indeed is) up to God to decide and could have been any other distance? Why are all planets not the appropriate distance from their respective suns in order to support life? Can we have your evidence against evolution now?

estebancambias

Close this, it's pointless. Obviously it's going to be tougher for me, than you people when responding, as I have nobody backing up my claims, and I have to carry the whole discussion on my own. It's easier for me to be wrong than it is for you.

Scofflaw

IrishKnight wrote:

First came earth then came life. Life evolved to suit the universe. Life didn't come about then say, "Oh we need somewhere to stay"

The "puddle" explanation. Every puddle exactly fits the hollow you find it in - who designs these hollows?

cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

estebancambias wrote:

Listen to say the theory of evolution was PROVEN to be false is dumb, to have backup to support that the 'theory' of evolution is false, is not a rare thing. Look up anywhere, and you will read facts about how Darwin's theory was wrong. What are you expecting me to do, come up with some undiscovered fact. I said 'the perfect distance from the sun to support lifeform' that is my BACKUP, mine. People have replied with objections which I found interesting.

What individuals decide to write on the Internet and what is written and published in the scientific literature are two different things.

I could go get a domain name tomorrow and set up a webpage describing you as an Atheist drug dealer who won the Nobel Prize for Trolling in Nineteen Twickety Two. I could claim what ever I want about you.

Now if I want to publish a science paper it must go through peer review. Three of four other scientists must ensure that what I am saying is accurate and justified. All the details of my experiments must be included in the work so that others can replicate the findings. This is is how ALL science works.

There are vast amounts of research on Evolution that all support it. The theory has changed over the years as new evidence has come to light. There is no issue that the theory is wrong, just a lot of morons with websites.

Scofflaw

estebancambias wrote:

Close this, it's pointless. Obviously it's going to be tougher for me, than you people when responding, as I have nobody backing up my claims, and I have to carry the whole discussion on my own. It's easier for me to be wrong than it is for you.

Come on over to the Creationism thread in the Christianity forum, where everything you've raised has been discussed, and where there are others of your opinion.

You could learn a lot from JC.

cordially,
Scofflaw

5uspect

Scofflaw wrote:

You could learn a lot from JC.

Now there's an unholy alliance!

Smellyirishman

estebancambias wrote:

How can I prove that we are perfect, how can you prove we are not?

Well apart from the examples of defects and differences I have already given, along with other posters. How about the fact (and it's an actual fact) that people break the 10 commandments, the rules for perfection sent down by God himself.

estebancambias

IT SAYS IN THE QU'RAN THAT GOD DESIGNED THE EARTH PERFECTLY!!!! Yes I am virtually shouting. I have not made this up in the last 2 hours.

How do you know the Earth is not perfect, humans have free will, we are not robots, people can make their own decisions, they have both a positive and negative path, this is what Earth is, basically a testing ground for us) People are not born bad(meaning that the question of 'why did timothy mcveigh blow up 158 people if God is perfect is invalid) He had a good path and a wrong path, sadly he went the wrong way.

Zombrex

estebancambias wrote:

Look up anywhere, and you will read facts about how Darwin's theory was wrong.

Estebancambias, this is the internet. You can find "facts" that back anything up. I suggest you stay away from the non-scientific "religious nut jobs" websites when looking for serious critical study of science :rolleyes:

The simple fact of the matter is that Neo-Darwinian evolutionary theory is a very well tested and examined scientific theory, that scientists have been using for 150 years.

It models, very accurately, the natural biological mechanisms that go on in nature, to the point where this model not only fits evidence but it can be used to predict what later discovered species of animals look like, either alive today or in the fossil record.

Put simply, a whole lot of really weird coincidences would have to have happened if evolution was actually an inaccurate model, and all this matching to evidence and prediction was in fact just a big fluke.

Not that I imagine you care, since you appear to be nuts

Tzetze

Esteban, can I direct you to this resource page, where you will find links to The Royal Institution Christmas Lectures · 1991.

I'm sure you'll agree that it's a wonderful explanation of life in general. Please, when you've watched them, do come back and let us know of the holes you've found in the theory.

IrishKnight

estebancambias wrote:

IT SAYS IN THE QU'RAN THAT GOD DESIGNED THE EARTH PERFECTLY!!!! Yes I am virtually shouting. I have not made this up in the last 2 hours.

MY GOOD GOD, if it's in a book it must be true. That...that...that means Harry Potter is real!

Crucifix

God, when I looked at this thread in work it was one page long and on the way to being locked! What the hell happened?

estebancambias

I'm going to be honest, I wish I had given more thought into the opening post. It still would have been as brash(note: I did not have any spelling mistakes, not that I know of), but when I think about it, the opening question should have been Do things just happen?

IrishKnight

Tzetze wrote:

Esteban, can I direct you to this resource page, where you will find links to The Royal Institution Christmas Lectures · 1991.

Thanks for that link!

Smellyirishman

estebancambias wrote:

IT SAYS IN THE QU'RAN THAT GOD DESIGNED THE EARTH PERFECTLY!!!! I have not made this up in the last 2 hours.

Yeah, but what's to say some bloke didn't make it up 2000 years ago (or whenever the QU'RAN is claimed to have been handed down, I have no idea)?

Do you believe that Harry Potter is gospel? (Rhetorical)

5uspect

estebancambias wrote:

I'm going to be honest, I wish I had given more thought into the opening post. It still would have been as brash(note: I did not have any spelling mistakes, not that I know of), but when I think about it, the opening question should have been Do things just happen?

If you want to go away and do some proper reading, those lectures suggested would be good, do so and come back when you are ready for a proper informed debate.

Tzetze

IrishKnight wrote:

Thanks for that link!

You're very welcome. I just hope Esteban makes good use of it too.

estebancambias

No, see Irish Knight that is stupid, I'm not saying that it is 100 %true(which shows I am tolerant. I would love to be having this debate in speach. What other backup(AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON) do I have to support the claim....that...the...world...was...designed...perfectly.

Do my views come across as confused? Well I expect so, because I am confused by religion, case in point my beliefs. I cannot say I'm a strong Catholic, I disagree with many parts of Christianity.

estebancambias

Oh sorry, thanks very much.

estebancambias

I'm going to listen to it tonight.

IrishKnight

estebancambias wrote:

No, see Irish Knight that is stupid, I'm not saying that it is 100 %true(which shows I am tolerant. I would love to be having this debate in speach. What other backup(AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON) do I have to support the claim....that...the...world...was...designed...perfectly.

It was a rhetorical statment more than anything else. All I was pointing out was the Bible and other holy books are man made. MAN made.

Ciaran500

estebancambias wrote:

What other backup(AS A RELIGIOUS PERSON) do I have to support the claim....that...the...world...was...designed...perfectly.

That depends how you define perfect. If you think its perfect from a beauty/artistic reason then you have nothing to back it up and thats your opinion. But if you think its perfect in a functional respect you will have to show some examples and people on here would have thousands of inefficient or ineffective examples from the universe around us.

estebancambias

Yeah I know, I DO have doubts about religion. Ok I understand people have come on here saying ''you're an idiot and stuff like this, I have been arguing about religion since really young, about 12 with my friend. Honestly we would stay up all night discussing, arguing about the existence of God, and which religion is right.