Jol Out mega-thread [rumours etc]

BERBA

Seriously MJ has taken us as far as we can go!...i'm a spurs supporter for the last 25 years and really thought we'd crack the top 4 this year .....last night was abysmal...i've been defending JJ for i don't know how long but seeing him stroll around last night on the park like passenger 57 was incredible.Our defence aren't up to it...i know their a makeshift defence but stalteri / rocha/gardner ..get rid...Jol needs to go out and buy Davies asap coz king is defo out for 2 mths (might never come back!). Keano can't play in midfield .....taraabt started 80% pre-season hasn't been seen yet..and what about boateng??????...Jol has lost the plot!!.he should never have spent 16.5m on another striker...Berba's body language says it all really.what do people think?.we probably will beat derby on sat and everyone will think its rosy in the garden again but with utd and gooners to come in next 4 weeks..it pains me to say it but were a laughin stock at the moment!

death1234567

2 games into the season and you want him sacked? ffs.

warrenaldo

haha brillaint - knew i would see some genius on here saying this.
Its 2 games. Know im not saying you deserved to win last nite but you went in at half time 3 - 1 down. even though i thought you were the better team marginally. they got lucky with the stubbs goal.
i am no big fan of joel. he doesnt know how to get his team to defend. But give the guy a chance - you have some easyish matches coming up.

Defensive wise spurs are a joke though. Conceded a bucket load last season.

BERBA

MJ is a likeable chap everyone would agree but in my opinion i think he's taken us as far as we can go...lets face it outside of chelski we've spent the most money out of anyone in last 3 years...and what have we to show for it!.

Loomis

Ignore the fact he's made them a mediocre side into a side that can genuinely challenge the top few teams. Clever

BERBA

Missing the point , he's got us to the top of the crap for the last 2 seasons , coz he's had the bobs to do it ...my point is it doesn't look like he's got the tactics / game plan to get us where we need/want to go ...top 4.

colly_browy

Despite the poor sart we have to stick by Jol, the majority of the squad was bought by him, it's his team and what if a replacement comes in and doesnt fancy them!? ...Another two seasons of departures and arrivals until we get a couple of bad results and decide that we want to sack him too!!

This is the first time BMJ has been under pressure.
Let's see how he deals with it.

SuprSi

Hmmm, while I don't want Jol out and am in favour of giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm very worried. We have a game on Saturday that will define whether we start this season as poorly as we did last season and will ultimately decide whether we challenge for the top 4 or are chasing the whole way through the season.

The Derby game is a must win. If we don't get 3 points, the next game is away to Man U, which is most likely 0 points, meaning we will have at the most 1 point from our first 4 games, which is even worse than last season. I just don't want our season to be as over (in relation to getting into the top 4) as it was last season so soon!!

I-Bleed-White

Scoreline aside I thought we did OK CONSIDERING the present circumstances. Everton are after all our closest rivals for best of the rest. Jol has not been able to showcase the talent he has spent money on to show us his master plan. Lennon will bring creativity to us when he is back and Dawson & King in full fitness are up there as two of the best CB in the PL. Bale will give more attacking options (and set pieces) Boetang could solve our little JJ problem by either just being better than him or sticking a foot up his arse. Also noted that Kaboul could be capable of playing CM should we have a fit back line.

Granted before I had been defending the Bent transfer but it is now coming painfully obvious even to me that we didn't need a £16.5 striker and that money would have been better spent on a world class EXPIERIENCED CM.

Bottom line. If that had been a full strength team out there I think we would have a problem. But it's not, so we don't.

COYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kmick

Mr. Anderson wrote:

Ignore the fact he's made them a mediocre side into a side that can genuinely challenge the top few teams. Clever

I would disagree based on last seasons results with that assertion.

Against the top 5 clubs not including us.

Date Team Result Points
09 Sat Man Utd Lost
04 Sun Man Utd Lost
05 Sun Chelsea Won
11 Sun Chelsea Draw
19 Mon Chelsea Lost
07 Sat Chelsea Lost
23 Sat Liverpool Lost
30 Sat Liverpool Lost
02 Sat Arsenal Lost
24 Wed Arsenal Draw
31 Wed Arsenal Lost
21 Sat Arsenal Draw
26 Sat Everton Lost
21 Wed Everton Won

if you count win/draw as a result is fairly poor record. if you only count a win as a result it is poor.

I have been a long time fan (first time poster) and we have given this guy a chance and he has proven he has something. However Spurs are currently a mess. There is no football being played. The team look like they have no shape, tactics seem non-existent, team infighting on the pitch, no spirit or fight. Your squad should be deep enough to absorb injuries and this squad abviously is not. MJ has another 10 matches in him before he gets fired at this canter.

BERBA

Don't get me wrong i like jol , he's done well for us last 2 seasons to get us 5th but like last season were we started season with 4pts from 6 games we were playin catch up all season long and never ever look like threathening top 4 the way we did in 2005/2006 season. My fear is this season looks like a repeat of last season...Hope im wrong .

I-Bleed-White

BERBA wrote:

Don't get me wrong i like jol , he's done well for us last 2 seasons to get us 5th but like last season were we started season with 4pts from 6 games we were playin catch up all season long and never ever look like threathening top 4 the way we did in 2005/2006 season. My fear is this season looks like a repeat of last season...Hope im wrong .

Last season is a differant kettle of fish. Last season we had Berb just coming into the team and he didn't really settle till december and nobody seems to remember that we had a horrible time trying to replace Carrick (even going as far as to try Danny Murphy, i'm still shivering) as he was the lynchpin of our team. This year the problem is injuries. Dawson should be back for the next game Bale and Lennon should be back soon enough too. Give it time. In fairness Barcelona would have lost 3-1 to Everton if they had Gardner playing in their CB.

SuprSi

But one of the problems is, and this is based on our results against the existing top four from last year, is that we don't beat them, and rarely draw against them. Will Arsenal/Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool lose in Sunderland and lose at home to Everton? Probably not. Will we beat any of those 4 this season? Possibly Arsenal and Liverpool at home, but outside that no.

That means we could already be 10 (6 points already, one loss and a point from the two home games against Liverpool/Arsenal) points behind the top 4, which is almost out of our reach already. To really stamp our quality and intent we needed to come out of the traps flying, winning a good few of the first few games and putting in performances that would make other teams and pundits respect us. Instead what's happened? Derby will be coming to WHL expecting the 3 points!!

I'm probably being overly pessimistic but I couldn't have asked for a worse start. I just hope things pick up.

Dublin Spur

Spent a few hours yesterday in the pub discussing what realistic solutions could be out there to stop the rot. This is what we came up with:

Mark Hughes in as manager.
No more director of football/head coach bollox.

He's done enough with Blackburn to convince me that he'd do a great Job at spurs. He'd be able to work with better players at spurs, he be able to sign better players at spurs. he's be able to win things at Spurs.

It makes sense for him and it makes sense for us.

I-Bleed-White

Absolutly shocking stuff.

No.1 You can never judge a team (and therefore manager) on the first game of the season away to a recently promoted side. It is as unpredictable as a F.A. cup game with the novelty in it for in this case Sunderland.

No.2 Injuries....we have been raped by injuries with nowhere near a first string starting line up having been near the pitch (aside from strickers and CM) Strikers forms can't be criticised as it takes the full team pulling together to get the best out of them like last season as oppose to the "abyss" we have where our defence should be.

No.3 We are Spurs supporters. 7th was our best finish in the prem before MJ. We owe him some patience. What I like about being a Spurs supporter is that you rarely meet plastic Spurs supporters like those of the big four. I pride myself in being able to be graceful in defeat (as I have had to be for the last few years as my mates are united supporters and there are no real comebacks from their taunts). But losing makes winning more special. How many times have you seen a United supporter raise less than a semi clenched fist at a goal scored against anything but Top 4 opposition. I don't know about you all but I lose the rag when we score any goal, in fact there was a point in the mid 90's where I celebrated winning throw ins because there was little else to celebrate.

Please put this MJ out crap out of your heads because although we may have under achieved for the last 2 seasons we have perfectly good excuses for it. (Food poisoning, No Carrick and injuries)

Now is the time to be rallying in support of our team not criticising it.

COYS!!!!

Dublin Spur

I-Bleed-White wrote:

Absolutly shocking stuff.

No.1 You can never judge a team (and therefore manager) on the first game of the season away to a recently promoted side. It is as unpredictable as a F.A. cup game with the novelty in it for in this case Sunderland.

No.2 Injuries....we have been raped by injuries with nowhere near a first string starting line up having been near the pitch (aside from strickers and CM) Strikers forms can't be criticised as it takes the full team pulling together to get the best out of them like last season as oppose to the "abyss" we have where our defence should be.

No.3 We are Spurs supporters. 7th was our best finish in the prem before MJ. We owe him some patience. What I like about being a Spurs supporter is that you rarely meet plastic Spurs supporters like those of the big four. I pride myself in being able to be graceful in defeat (as I have had to be for the last few years as my mates are united supporters and there are no real comebacks from their taunts). But losing makes winning more special. How many times have you seen a United supporter raise less than a semi clenched fist at a goal scored against anything but Top 4 opposition. I don't know about you all but I lose the rag when we score any goal, in fact there was a point in the mid 90's where I celebrated winning throw ins because there was little else to celebrate.

Please put this MJ out crap out of your heads because although we may have under achieved for the last 2 seasons we have perfectly good excuses for it. (Food poisoning, No Carrick and injuries)

Now is the time to be rallying in support of our team not criticising it.

COYS!!!!

You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that everyting is okay baring injuries. Not me, Jol has taken Spurs as far as he can, he doen't have the ability to take us any higher than 5th in the premier league.

He seems like a nice fella, but that's not reason enough for him to keep his job. I think the Spurs board will realise this soon, if they havn't done so already. The board spent 35 mil in the summer so I have no problem with them and their ambtion.

Hughes in and Jol out, simple as that.

BERBA

I don't think w'ere judging Jol here on one game. The cracks were begining to appear last year and i think its time maybe for a change because as nice a guy as Jol is he won't get us near the top 4. we all listen to how he's got us challenging top 4 ...rubbish!!!.....in 8 games we played last season we lost home and away to both pool and utd and only for a 94th min leveller v goons at the lane it would have been home and away to them also...record in 8 games against top 4 last season W1 D1 L6. i think jol makes too many excuses, he's had 100m to spend in his reign and i think the board have finally realised that we can't say anymore 'In Jol we Trust'. We will win against derby on sat but i think its just delaying the inevitable...i hope im wrong.

COYS

I-Bleed-White

The board has spent 35mill and if the thread below is anything to go by they are already pissed but surely you can't suggest he be sacked before 3 of his 5 signings have even smelled the grass? If we beat Derby and United what will your position be then ? Bearing in mind Utd. are only 2 points ahead of us after just as many games and will be without Ronaldo (diving F**ker) and Rooney . They have drawn twice to very mid table oppostion and nobodies calling for Fergies head even though I think they will lose their next game and possibly be out of the title race by late October. At least Everton qualified for the UEFA cup and as I say the Sunderland game was a novelty.

I'm not saying if the results continue keep him on, i'm saying we are getting premature about looking for replacements. Give him at LEAST 2 months and see where we are at then.

Dublin Spur

I-Bleed-White wrote:

The board has spent 35mill and if the thread below is anything to go by they are already pissed but surely you can't suggest he be sacked before 3 of his 5 signings have even smelled the grass? If we beat Derby and United what will your position be then ? Bearing in mind Utd. are only 2 points ahead of us after just as many games and will be without Ronaldo (diving F**ker) and Rooney . They have drawn twice to very mid table oppostion and nobodies calling for Fergies head even though I think they will lose their next game and possibly be out of the title race by late October. At least Everton qualified for the UEFA cup and as I say the Sunderland game was a novelty.

I'm not saying if the results continue keep him on, i'm saying we are getting premature about looking for replacements. Give him at LEAST 2 months and see where we are at then.

In recent seasons we have had the 5th best suqad in the league, that's why we finshed 5th in the last 2 seasons, we finished each season where we should have given the quality of the squad.

Calling for a new manager isn't based on 2 games (although I do accept that these defeats have quickened the call), it's based on the last 3 years. If we are looking to improve, and we always should be, then we should be aiming for cahmpions league qualification and a major cup win. I cannot see either of these things happening under Martin Jol. Mark Hughes seem to have a better understanding of how to build a team with a nice balance of toughness and flare.










but lets just see what happens.

I-Bleed-White

[QUOTE=but lets just see what happens.[/QUOTE]


too right

John W

Dublin Spur wrote:

In recent seasons we have had the 5th best suqad in the league, that's why we finshed 5th in the last 2 seasons, we finished each season where we should have given the quality of the squad.

Calling for a new manager isn't based on 2 games (although I do accept that these defeats have quickened the call), it's based on the last 3 years. If we are looking to improve, and we always should be, then we should be aiming for cahmpions league qualification and a major cup win. I cannot see either of these things happening under Martin Jol. Mark Hughes seem to have a better understanding of how to build a team with a nice balance of toughness and flare
but lets just see what happens.

So this would be the top four mangers if we finish 4th

Sir Alex Ferguson
José Mourinho
Rafael Benitez
Martin Jol ??

He just doesn't fit really, does he!

I think we should give him a few months, let the injured lads come back, see how he does with the millions he spent. But I think long term we may need to look elseware (not sure if Blackburn is the place to be looking).

Leinstersqspur

This thread makes me laugh. If only pessimism was a virtue!?

I have been a Spurs fan since birth. We have had to endure chairmen looking after their own interests, boards making crazy appointments, and managers who have not a care in the world about turning tottenham into a great team (even G.Graham the F*ck!).

We have lingered desperately close to the drop and made measely efforts to win cups whilst conceeding numerous attempts to qualify for european competition to clubs of a lesser calibre.

But not in MJ's reign. In 05/06 we finished 4th which came right down to the wire. We sold our most prized asset to ManU. It was said we would not reinact the same feat the following but we set our sights on European nights at WHL.

In 06/07 we recruited a genial bulgarian. We steamrolled through European opposition and were unlucky to go out to a couple of minutes lasp of concentration and left wondering why Steed didn't clear the ball with his other foot! We endured a sticky barren spell in our league campaign but our manager rallied the troops around and we shot ourselves back into 4th postion beating the defending champions for the first time in our premiership histroy along the way.

In 07/08 we began with an alarming casualty list; took no points from our first two games with a lot of our players looking a good distance from match fitness, albeit the defending champions have only taken two points more from equal opposition.

I am bemused to see Tottenham fans accross the land with the knives out all ready to skin the manager who has brought as close to the pinnacle of premiership football that we have ever been?!

I for one back the manager all the way, for the last two seasons I have been prouder than ever to call myself a yid. Far from the days we could be 3-0 up at half time at WHL only to lose 5-3!? Its a slow start but a turn is just ahead.

BRING THE RAMS TO THE SLAUGHTER!!!!

Dublin Spur

Leinstersqspur wrote:

I am bemused to see Tottenham fans accross the land with the knives out all ready to skin the manager who has brought as close to the pinnacle of premiership football that we have ever been?!

Do you not think that we have had the 5th squad of players in the past 2 seasons ?? Therefore by my reckoning 5th place should be the bare minimum we should expect. We have not over achieved or excelled under Jol, we have pretty much finished when we have deserved to be.

Again, if Jol isn't the man to bring us sustained sucess (in the form of Champions League qualification and/or a major cup) then what is the point in keeping with a formula that does not work.

If you're happy to be somewhere between 5th and 7th for ever more and the odd cup semi-final then Jol is the man no doubt, but if your looking for real success he is out of his depth in my opinion.

If we don't replace him soon, we'll fall even further behind the top 4. And Mark Hughes would be perfect for the job.

galinka

Leinstersqspur wrote:

But not in MJ's reign. In 05/06 we finished 4th which came right down to the wire.
In 06/07 we recruited a genial bulgarian. we shot ourselves back into 4th postion beating the defending champions for the first time in our premiership histroy along the way.


Far from the days we could be 3-0 up at half time at WHL only to lose 5-3!? Its a slow start but a turn is just ahead.

Did you forget the Arse were in the league both years?

As for results in 05/06 we drew at Sunderland - thanks to the worst FB in the league being beaten by Darryl Murphy and cost us a Champions League place.

Roll on 2 years the same 2 geniuses are around - FB and Manager - but this time we lose 1-0 as our useless FB is beaten at the byline for the cross that beats us.

Where has your beloved Manager been for 2 years? Staltieri and Gardner are not good enough for the LOI (with apologies to the LOI) but our man keeps picking them. We have without doubt the weakest midfield in the premiership - we spend vast sums buying Routledge and Malbranque who will never make us a top 4 team (i never dream about being no. 1)

My friend another diehard Spurs fan sums it best - we could spend £100M but when those 2 planks are in the back 4 we will always concede more than we score - best 4 strikers west of Rome or not!

Sorry but whatever happens this season our Tony Soprano like the TV series is finished.

John W

Sorry but I have to agree, I don't think BMJ is the man to take Spurs to the "next level" I think he was the man to bring us to the European cup finish place, but that is it I am afraid. As for the stats and we should be grateful to him for the last two years, I am, I am, BUT I am more grateful to the Board, I think without the director of football (and the money) we wouldn't have finished 5th last year, and to be honest I think any half decent manager (which Jol is) would have got us there. So just to make it plain, I am not knocking BMJ, he done alright by us, but if we seriously want to be a regular in the CL, we will need a new man for the future.

therecklessone

I've held off contributing for the last few days so that I could gather my thoughts, and try to work out where we've been going wrong. TBH, I still can't make head nor tail of it...

First off, kudos to Martin Jol for his performance as manager to date. I really mean that, two consecutive 5th place finishes plus an extended run in Europe ended only by the eventual cup winners is a real achievement, certainly relative to our stunning mediocrity in the preceding decade. I've said it before, I don't believe our last day failure to retain 4th place and a CL spot was the slip up some felt it was, our team was not ready for the higher level of Euro football and IMO would have suffered if we'd secured the CL spot.

Last season was another one of development, a young squad facing 59 games, at times facing 5 weeks of two games every week. The toll from that effort could have been enough to break any team, and with injuries last season we were definitely at breaking point on one or two occasions. Credit where its due, the manager and his players put in an excellent run of league form that saw us rise to 5th and repeat the finish of the previous season.

Don't underestimate the culture shock that last season's fixture congestion was to our squad. With so little time between games it is next to impossible to work on tactics in training, most of the focus is on recovering fitness between games rather than on tactical innovation.

That aside, questions need to be answered...we've spent £40m this year but failed to address key weaknesses in our team. Why? A dog with a mallet up its arse could see that our CM is weak and needs strengthening. The same dog could identify the lack of creativity in midfield, and the lack of a left footed player (note I'm not saying LW, merely a left footed player). It may turn out that Boateng is the answer to the creativity problem, and if so I'll be a happy man. The other two problems remain.

I don't think the management structure with a DOF and a head coach is the problem. I do believe the DOF needs to have confidence in the coach, so I'm left wondering if the relationship between Jol and Comolli is as healthy as it could be. I hop the DOF consults Jol on squad requirements before he goes out spending, and I can't blame Jol if he is asking for specific areas to be addressed but is getting no support from Comolli on that. If I had to choose between Comolli and Jol I'd choose Jol, but I'd expect Jol to suggest a new DOf to Levy because I do believe the structure can work.

I believe significant questions remain about BMJ's ability to change a game, and his tactical choices in general. IMO, he picked the wrong teams to play Sunderland and Everton. I'd have started Rocha at LB against Sunderland (despite what galinka says, Gardner had to play CB due to injuries to King and Dawson), with Bent up front in place of Keane and Taarabt on the bench. Taarabt would have had a field day against Dwight Yorke if he'd got 30 minutes from the bench. It was our failure to bring the game to Sunderland in the middle of the park that ultimately cost us, Sunderland became more confident as the game wore on precisely because we looked so clueless going forward.

Against Everton, playing Keane on the right side of midfield was a bad choice. Keane ended up getting in the way of Chimbonda whenever the RB pushed forward, it looked like they had not worked on the line up in training. If Keane had to play midfield the left hand side is where he should have been, allowing Malbranque to move to the right where he and Chimbonda could have linked up well. The choice of Steed on the left in front of the right-footed Stalteri meant we narrowed the left hand side of the pitch and we ran into each other on the right...:(

For me, BMJ gets another season, barring a total collapse. And I'd agree with Shane, Mark Hughes would be a good replacement for Jol, though my preference would be for a manager who has won trophies.

yiddo_til_i_die

Dublin Spur wrote:

In recent seasons we have had the 5th best suqad in the league, that's why we finshed 5th in the last 2 seasons, we finished each season where we should have given the quality of the squad.

Calling for a new manager isn't based on 2 games (although I do accept that these defeats have quickened the call), it's based on the last 3 years. If we are looking to improve, and we always should be, then we should be aiming for cahmpions league qualification and a major cup win. I cannot see either of these things happening under Martin Jol. Mark Hughes seem to have a better understanding of how to build a team with a nice balance of toughness and flare.

what the **** have you been watching for the past three years???
We've improved every season under Jol, from just missing out on euro qualification, to finishing 5th and getting knocked out of the cups, and qualifying for europe, to finishing 5th again getting to the semis of one cup and the quarters of another as well as an quarters of the UEFA Cup.

buddy you don't have a notion!

yiddo_til_i_die

BERBA wrote:

Seriously MJ has taken us as far as we can go!...i'm a spurs supporter for the last 25 years and really thought we'd crack the top 4 this year .....last night was abysmal...i've been defending JJ for i don't know how long but seeing him stroll around last night on the park like passenger 57 was incredible.Our defence aren't up to it...i know their a makeshift defence but stalteri / rocha/gardner ..get rid...Jol needs to go out and buy Davies asap coz king is defo out for 2 mths (might never come back!). Keano can't play in midfield .....taraabt started 80% pre-season hasn't been seen yet..and what about boateng??????...Jol has lost the plot!!.he should never have spent 16.5m on another striker...Berba's body language says it all really.what do people think?.we probably will beat derby on sat and everyone will think its rosy in the garden again but with utd and gooners to come in next 4 weeks..it pains me to say it but were a laughin stock at the moment!

man granted you've been supporting them for 25yrs but what are you f-ing talking about. our defence aren't up to it - thats bcos 3 of our first choice back four are missing, as well as our first choice cover for CB (Kaboul). Get rid of Rocha?? he's a decent player and an excellent player to have as cover.

Taraabt played 80% of pre-season games. Against crap opposition. He's still very young and will no doubt get a run this season, but we don't have the midfield at the moment to accommodate him.

Boateng is f**king injured as well!!

I suppose its Jol's fault that he hasn't been playing Lennon as well.

Jol has to be given time, and i'm not just talking about a few games. he needs this season at least. and i'd give him another 2 or 3 years and then see where we are.

A bird in the hand as they say

therecklessone

yiddo_til_i_die wrote:

Boateng is f**king injured as well!!

No he's not, he's just not had a full pre-season so his fitness levels aren't up to scratch yet.

John W

yiddo_til_i_die wrote:

what the **** have you been watching for the past three years???
We've improved every season under Jol, from just missing out on euro qualification, to finishing 5th and getting knocked out of the cups, and qualifying for europe, to finishing 5th again getting to the semis of one cup and the quarters of another as well as an quarters of the UEFA Cup.

buddy you don't have a notion!

Sorry, but I wiould have to agrea with therecklessone in general. I thoght it was a well thoght out post. However few dissegrements.

1, BMJ should only get till Kwistmas, 30m is a lot of money.
2, The DOF will stay well beyond BMJ
3, Steed is not a winger, left or right, needs to be CM to get he's best

KingdomYid

Please give the man some time this sack talk is ridiculous.How quickly people forget the highs and enjoyment that MJ has brought over the last 2 seasons ok he has made mistakes,but in all of my years supporting spurs i have never been so happy and optimistic.I truly believe this is a blip and when we have our players back we will be a team to be feared.COYS.