Jol Out mega-thread [rumours etc]

BERBA

Just came across article see below

Article by Paul Mortimer

Reports are circulating that Tottenham Hotspur manager, Martin Jol, has asked for top goal scorer and fans favourite, Dimitar Berbatov, to be sold.

This astonishing news has rocked a lot of Spurs fans as the club seems to be in turmoil with just three games gone into the new season.

Spurs chairman, Daniel Levy, refused the sale of Berbatov, which has now led to large unrest between the manager and chairman.

Many pundits are claiming that this is the reason why Jol probably has until the end of the week before being replaced. I on the other hand, believe that Martin may be replaced for other reasons.

Manchester United boss, Alex Ferguson, asked his chairman to sell England international, David Beckham after the two clashed. Ferguson also sanctioned the sale of Van Nistelrooy, a player whom in their current predicament would have come in handy.

It is becoming quite apparent that Tottenham Hotspur Director of Football, Damien Comolli, is largely behind the boards decision to oust Jol from his position and bring in Sevilla's manager, Juande Ramos.

Maybe Comolli has had a word with the board after the rumours of Jol's training methods came to light. Comolli's has an influential standing with the board. If the Frenchman has advised that Jol should be replaced, several board members such as vice-charmain Kemsley, would have been alerted, in turn, persuading Levy to begin a search for a manager that would take over from Jol.

Jol is apparently unhappy at the way Berbatov has been behaving since being substituted in the Sunderland game.

No player should be bigger than the club or manager, should they?

galinka

Seems to be all over the English papers today - bit doubtful myself now that nothing is happening.

Not sure what to think of changing a manager at this stage of the season.

I notice a reference in one paper over row with Berbatov and his possible transfer to Utd being the reason that Levy has made a move. Difficult to know what is true as stories are being leaked to discredit Jol.

Just the preparation we need for Old Trafford or maybe what the board wants to make a change.

Robxxx7

I'm just stunned that our club seems to be gripped by political manoeuvring, and the fall out from it will affect our team and its future this season.

I can't believe that after 2 years of stability that people within our club wants to see us implode through the media and become a laughing stock again ...

If they are going to sack Jol then do it but do it for the right reasons, if we need a change to take us to the next level then so be it ... but all this leaking of information and backroom gangsterism does no good for us ... perhaps we need a cleaner sweep and get rid of some people in the boardroom aswell ...

I-Bleed-White

Robxxx7 wrote:

I'm just stunned that our club seems to be gripped by political manoeuvring, and the fall out from it will affect our team and its future this season.

I can't believe that after 2 years of stability that people within our club wants to see us implode through the media and become a laughing stock again ...

If they are going to sack Jol then do it but do it for the right reasons, if we need a change to take us to the next level then so be it ... but all this leaking of information and backroom gangsterism does no good for us ... perhaps we need a cleaner sweep and get rid of some people in the boardroom aswell ...

I'm half with you on this one. I have come into work today very bitter and disillusioned with this scenario. How often have we seen these situations turn out as predicited by the papers. A good chunk of me knows that this IS going to happen and I for one will no longer consider myself a Spurs supporter if it does.

Re: Berb arguement

If he is too big for his boots get him out of there. I am surprised to hear this as any Berbatov interviews I have heard he comes across more humble than most but we do not need such a bad influence in our team (Reo Coker style). It is the age old arguement..Mick McCarthy or Roy Keane. No player is bigger than his club. No question. Berb out!!

In reguards to MJ. He has never shown me he is not capable of breaking the top 4. Granted there are other managers who ON PAPER look like they can do a more efficiant job but BMJ has often been a victim of circumstance. I'm not denying he has made some .....unusual tactical choices at times that haven't come of. What manager is without fault. If I wanted the team I support just to win all the time I would have stayed a united supporter in my early teens. I wanted to support a club that should they win something it would be earned and special (That league cup meant a lot to me). But hey. If everyone likes the shiny cups so much and can't live without them lets get them at any cost to our decency and self respect as a club.

RAMOS ???? NO.

COMJ!!!!!!!

yiddo

From Jim Duggans http://www.topspurs.com

21st August 2007 - Jol’s bullet is already loaded

The hugely unpopular director of football role at Spurs, a dogma which has been almost universally shunned by the elite clubs, looks set to claim its latest victim as my snout has confirmed that Jol has no future at Spurs and as soon as the new man is in place/Spurs suffer another disappointment on the pitch will be taking a multi-million pound pay off for the rest of his contract.

Like Jol or not - he has delivered on his brief of regular Euro football and top six finishes and at this moment in time, Jol does not deserve to go - end of.
I’ve never particularly liked Jol, or much of the football he has put together or that he has it in him to take Spurs further, but even I can see that this is wrong, very very very wrong

The gist of the Jol crisis is this - the Spurs board asked Jol to explain the poor start to the season, Jol blamed Comolli (and presumably injuries) and the Spurs board have had enough, fuelled by some rumours that players are pissed off with tactics and training and Jol is in for a £4m pay off for the rest of his contract. This fits in very much with the MO of Spurs described on here before where the permanence is the Board which includes the DoF while the coach is just someone who has players purchased for him by the board and comes and goes every couple of years to keep things fresh. Something which they’ve yet to realize at Man U, Arsenal and indeed Liverpool where all managers last half a decade at least.

Have n’t we been here before?

Early 2003 one of the directors loses faith in the manager, they spend all summer with a manager and buy players for him, in this case £40m of which over half have yet to play in the first team through injury - and then sack him a few games in without a plan B and spend all season managerless. At least with Hoddle you could reluctantly concede the results were not good and the players did not seem happy but not now? Pathetic.

From the people who waited 9 months to deliver Santini and tried to squeeze his dream team of Arnesen, Cuperly, Jol and Hughton into two positions - we now get another very very old Tottenham farce

And then again with Sugar giving Gross a summer and then three games before the bullet, although on the bright side - the last time Spurs sacked a coach after three games, Spurs went on to lift a trophy as the Goonersaurus replaced Gross after three games and what looked a job saving win at Everton and was present when Spurs won the League cup in 1999.

Well done, the Spurs board are truly the saviours of Tottenham and not just gits who have been bleeding Spurs supporters dry with 300% pay rises who got very lucky when they stumbled upon Jol after the almighty balls of appointing Santini

Boeteng, Bale and Kaboul will make their debuts under a different manager from the one they signed up with - and do the board not see that that injuries and old fashioned luck do play a role in the short term results. Spurs poor start is in the run of a spell of 15 League games of which Spurs have won nine in the league - only poor old Shreevesy can claim a better record before being bulleted for a so called better man

I don’t know anything about this Ramoz - apart from he was bright enough to sign Freddie Kanoute when this lot were still sulking cos he missed three games for Spurs. I hope he is more attack minded than the other Iberians in the Premiership are hardly noted for their flair and in Benitez case, a disregard for the talent of British players which this lot have used as a backbone of the side

Again, you don’t have to be Einstein to have an educated guess at who was having the cash on Jol getting the bullet last week if you have a plane ticket booked for Spain, and you just have to hope they did not stop off at Pompey on the way back. It stinks and hopefully the stuffed shirts at the FA look into this and clarify the morality of those around Spurs.

When the new fella joins - he will be under so much pressure to deliver, with little time to work with what are someone else’s players and in possibly a split squad after the acrimonious sacking. Only miracle workers need apply.

Losing Jol may not be the end of Spurs - but as I put over the weekend it really is twisting on 17. Was Jol the only reason Spurs are not higher in the league? Are the players better than 5th?

Personally, I think this is just about as good as Spurs are at the moment and change now is more likely to see Spurs go backwards than forwards as 6th or indeed 10th if you look at the final table last season is as close as 4th or above. Robbo ain’t Cech, Dawson ain’t Terry, Jenas ain’t Gerrard.

I would welcome Spurs playing more positive tactics but equally concede that Jol has done enough so far so as not to be sacked at this stage and it just feels very wrong

Robxxx7

I have to say that i share his sentiments ... any change now will take us backward ..far better to have made a change either in the summer or after this season ....we better enjoy our european journey's this year cos i don't think we will get a taste next year:(

galinka

Don't agree with all of it but a lot of sense there. Timing is the issue - should have done it before the season - not 3 games in. Interesting to see what happens Sunday.

Somewhere i read an interesting comment that the players went over to Zakora and not Jol when they scored on Saturday. Make of it whatever you will.

Dont agree with Ronan on leaving Berbatov go - we only hear all kinds of rumours put out to suit either side. He strikes me as a decent enough guy - he certainly did not rush away from Leverkusen. I would not blame him for sulking in first 2 games, at least he appears to want to be a winner.

cxcully

Christ,never a dull moment.....I followed the Spanish League a lot last year and this guy is a damn good coach-but this will leave a sour taste in the mouth.

John W

cxcully wrote:

Christ,never a dull moment.....I followed the Spanish League a lot last year and this guy is a damn good coach-but this will leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Good coach or not, the timing is bad for the team, and for the integrity of the club - If this happens soon, you would have one very disappointed, and quite frankly, ashamed tottenham supporter.:mad:

galinka

This is a piece he wrote after Saturdays win - i've cut it down - full piece is on www.topspurs.com

19th August 2007 – Spurs 4-0 Rams, Spurs win the Donkey Derby

Just as with the Fulham cup win last season, when Jol’s Spurs are under pressure – if you believe the fourth estate, one game away from the sack – Spurs come back with a 4-0 win. To say the players did it for Jol may be stretching the point, esp. when you see Malbranque sprint to the bench swerve Jol and hug the “rested” Zokora after he scored his opener. Make of that what you will but the crowd gave its full backing to Jol from start to finish although it’s a pity some pricks had to boo Jenas when his name was read out. I’d have thought Jenas was fully within his rights to issue his middle finger to those twats after scoring his brilliant goal but to his credit chose to celebrate with those who mock and it amazes me that there is still a large section of the Spurs faithful who still fail to see what he gives to Spurs.

I did n’t feel up to commenting on the nonsense in the week over Jol’s future and still believe “Spurs were not as good as the pre-season hype and equally are not as bad as the first two performance seemed”. I know it’s not a particularly exciting or insightful statement – but it is true. The same after the Derby demolition as it was after the dismal defeats. Spurs are not bad but nothing special. Not yet anyway, although a slight worry is that it’s difficult to see how all that money spent over the summer is going to make any difference which may in time make summer 2007 look like an opportunity squandered.

One thing to come out of the fall out of this week is the persistent problems with a director of football, a lineage which stretches right back to when Pleat was introduced to keep an eye on the till when Graham was manager. Apparently Jol is not happy with the quality of players Comolli is putting his way and you suspect that he’d rather do it himself or have someone he knows doing his scouting. That said, I doubt whether Comolli was there with a gun to his/Levy’s head when Bent was done for £16m and it’s not all one way but this extra layer of bureaucracy has never seemed a bright idea to anyone other than some management consultant on his decision making PowerPoint.

I thought it was a particularly spineless performance from the Spurs board this week. First probably leaking the news of a “crisis” meeting with Jol and then doing nothing public to support Jol’s claims that the board are still very much behind him. Considering what Jol has done for them, it was pretty ordinary behaviour.

Just like the last year of the Hoddle reign, with strong rumours of one of the board members wanting Jol replaced going back until the bad run in Jan 2007, and with a director of football to contend with, I don’t think this is the last time Jol will feel the heat after a downturn and it cannot be the optimal situation for Jol to work under. There was also the issue of the betting being suspended on Jol being the first manager to get the sack after unusual betting patterns. Given Jol’s fine record with Spurs, I wonder just who would be brave enough to risk book stopping amounts of money on him being sacked after three defeats?

This was my first visit to WHL this season and the creeping commercialism seems to have broken out into a trot, capped by those facking irritating adverts flashing around the perimeter fences. I’ve also heard from one of the cardboard cutouts in the West Stand that one of the few privileges of their exorbitant prices – of walking into the ground through the main gates - has been removed and they are now shunted around Paxton Road with the Trappists presumably to keep the main entrance all clear for sponsors and other assorted ponces.

You may be a Spurs fan in your head, you may refer the club in the first person, but in the words of Leee Johns it’s just an illusion or perhaps more accurately delusion. We are customers – and only ordinary customers ones at that. The club need us for “atmosphere” to keep it real for TV audiences worldwide but they are really after the sort of people who can afford to waste upwards of three grand on a wanky metre long book about Spurs, which given the state of the Spurs DVDs will just be re-hashed from other books.



No doubt we’ll be treated each half time to people we associate with the goodness of Spurs, prostituting themselves in support of this end in a rather unedifying spectacle. It would be nice to think the recent share crashes taking away city bonuses leaving a big pile of unsold ones next to the Ghaly portraits at the end of the season, but it won’t happen. The marketing of football has created a cult and cult like behavior where people are outdoing themselves to show how loyal they are with new shirts each year, planning family events around football and some people going everywhere where Spurs play which oversteps the mark of keen interest into obsession. Its just a game and Spurs is just a hobby and where a £3000 book fits in all that is beyond me.

Now that Jol is hopefully safe for a while, its worth having an open think about his management. If you look at the record books, 6th best ever points per game Spurs manager and easily the best of the EPL era in that respect, however there remain doubts about his ability to get the best out of his players and his tactical nous relative to the elite managers. While I’m sure Levy is happy with where Jol has taken Spurs, perhaps in the back of his mind he is starting to wonder if this is as good as Spurs can be under his leadership.

Levy is like a blackjack player with a hand of 16 or 17 – pretty good but perhaps not the winning hand. Should he stick and see how Jol goes over the next couple of seasons or twist sooner rather than later, risking the good position for either a stronger position or bust. If its Jol keeping Spurs up in 5th, then the case for sticking is strong but if it’s the players who are the 5th or higher squad in the league, then perhaps a new manager of the elite standard may be the right move to take Spurs on.

Personally, unless Jol starts to get all negative playing zhite football, I’d stick with Jol for the time being as his overall record means he deserves to keep his job and also there does not seem to be anyone else out there willing and able to do any better, but deep down feel that perhaps 5th is as good as he is.


Good article from a shrewd man.

hotspur

Well all things considered I'll be glad if we bring in Ramos. Jol's a nice guy but he's not the sharpest tool in the box, and he hasn't got a clue tactically. Look this is Jol's first decent club and he has got to where he has by the club spending a fortune.

That we came 5th last year is a damning indictment of the rest of the league because we were poor an awful lot of the time and could just as easily finished 10th. You can visably see the lack of tactics and balance from Spurs in matches against teams with vastly inferior and cheaper players. Any well organised team who works hard is a match for Spurs and when you spend over 100m on players that's not good enough.

We could never challenge for the title under Jol, and we have the money at the club to do that under the right manager. And that's without dragging up a lot of stuff about Jol that isn't common knowledge.

Dublin Spur

Jol and THFC board have fallen out in a big way. This has been building for a long time and there's nothing knee jerk about it.

Jol spoke to Ajax in 2005 about the vacant managers job without asking permission from Spurs. He ended up agreeing to stay with Spurs and used the approch from Ajax to win an inproved contract.

The same thing happened earlier in this year, he spoke to Newcastle after Roder was sacked, and used this in his favour again to improve his contract.

The Spurs board feel quite bitter about the way he went behind their backs and spoke to Ajax and Newcastle. Apparently they would have scked him after the Newcastle business if it wasn't for his popularity with the Spurs fans.

Because of the way Jol has acted i the past, the Spurs board feel entitled to speak to potential head coaches while Jol is still in the job. That is how/why the Ramos stuff came out at the weekend. Spurs don't feel they owe Jol anything but they have bottled out of sacking him out of fear of a backlash from the fans. It's looks like the respect is gone betwen the 2 parties and it's only a matter of time now till Jol will be clearing out his desk.

I think Spurs will encourage him to resign as they don't want to be seen to sack someone who the supporters hold in high esteem. I've heard that there was a meeting today between representitves of THFC & Jol. Apparently THFC will offer Jol 50% of the remainder of his contract to walk away now.

Anyway, the coming days/week will show if any of this is actually true, unless there's secrecy clause in Jol's pay-off. A very sad end if true, but we need to keep going, there are better coaches out there that would love to come to Spurs and help bring back the glory long term.

The Spurs board sound like spineless creeps too, all very unfortunate but that's modern football I suppose.

therecklessone

Shane, be careful who is briefing the media and Spurs message boards.

p.s. I've merged a series of threads into this one "Jol Out" thread, just in case we end up repeating ourselves across a couple of different threads. Hop nobody has a problem with that, I've left redirects from each thread.

therecklessone

Official statement from the club re. speculation:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/clubupdate.html

The Club is aware that there has been much speculation over the past few days in respect of our Manager, Martin Jol. As you know, the Club does not respond to speculation, but we do feel in this instance it is important to clarify the current position. Manager Martin Jol and Assistant Manager, Chris Hughton met with the Chairman, Sporting Director Damien Comolli and members of the Board today – discussions were held re-confirming our aims for the season, the development of the full potential of the squad and taking the Club forward.
“We have had two good, progressive seasons with fifth place finishes. I am an ambitious Chairman, we are an ambitious Club and we want Champions League football at White Hart Lane,” commented Chairman, Daniel Levy. “We, the Board, owe it to the Club and the supporters to constantly assess our position and performance and to ensure that we have the ability to operate and compete at that level. We have made a massive investment in the squad and as a result we have the best squad of players this Club has had for over 20 years and they are equally hungry for success and silverware. For that we need our management and coaching standards to be of the highest quality such that players can fulfil their potential and we can compete with the best. We have discussed all of these expectations with Martin and he has confirmed to me today that he feels he is equipped with a squad and a determination to take on that challenge.”

Martin added: “We had a full and frank conversation and I fully understand the ambitions of the Club – they are the same as those of the supporters. He has put a lot of hard work into this Club and with the squad of players we have assembled, it is realistic that we should look to challenge for a top four position and I have assured him and the Board that that is what I shall aim for.

“The last two seasons we have finished fifth and this season we start with an even better team. So we should be optimistic. Yes, it is pressure to deliver, but that is what we managers should expect. Hopefully all the media will relax now – all I shall be concentrating on is each and every game.”

I read that as its only a matter of time before the chop.

galinka

He'll be the hero of all the fickle fans.

Dont see any change now before season's end unless results go against him.

But unless we finish 4th or higher that's it.

The Lilywhite

Well I for one will be sorry to see him go, he did a good job and brought us up to 5th for the last 2 seasons although as you say we got some luck and could have finished from 5th to 10th. I will accept that some of our football under him hasn't been too exciting and the "long ball" from Robinson seems to have been played a lot, but he appeared to love 'Tottenham' and the fans. Lads he did a lot for the club and brought some unity and direction, whether or not he was good enough to bring us into the top 4, I don't think so tactically he was a bit inept and some of the panic buys were just not good enough to play for Spurs, I dont know too much about this Spanish guy but I think the club could have given him a bit more time.

tomo75

Well, I for one, am very happy to see him staying. He is the best we have had in a long time. Think he should get, at least, until the end of the season. A good win on Sunday against misfiring Utd and that will be spotlight over to the grumpy Scot.;)

therecklessone

Latest rumour hot off the presses:

Ramos had told us he'd join, now gone back on that and will see out his Sevilla contract.

Spurs statement above is am embarrassing climb down by the board cos their plan B is f*cked. What a bunch of arseholes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA01pqHyMVQ

Snake Plisken

Well looks like Big Marty will be out of WHL next summer, I don't see them finishing 4th this season, I think Martin will resign rather then be sacked and I'm sure there will be a lot of clubs across europe looking to employ him. What a bunch of dopes we have in the boardroom, FFS, if I knew 5 years ago we would be in europe season after season and finishing in the top 5 I wouldn't have believed it and now they want him out, I agree with a lot of Jim Duggan has said in his article above, Spurs are just a mess, If I was Jol I would be looking for another club and say Fxck off to the spurs board for the way they've treated him

Snake

Shiminay

That Duggan guy writes some good stuff.

My own €0.02...
Sacking any manager 3 games in is just wrong from a moral and business and sporting POV. Sacking a manager that has brought your club to it's highest point in years is suicide. There's no talk of sacking Alex Ferguson after the horrendous start they've had in Old Trafford (and another loss on the way when Spurs come to visit on Sunday ). Seems to me that the Spurs board has forgotten they're a football club, not a multinational...

Hatch99

Just home from the hols...

Shocking if he is sacked after 3 games. Why give a manager so much to spend if your gonna judge him on 3 games. Yes we finished 5th for the last 2 seasons, but at least give him until Christmas to see where we stand.
If we are still struggling in mid-table in December with a fully fit squad, well yes fine, maybe time for a change, but its still August ffs.

Certain people banging on about about how he can take us no further and get him out now, the bloke has done excellent for the club, give him till Christmas and maybe May and then judge him, and by all means if no improvement has been made, we will all be asking questions.

Hatch99

From Duggans Site



23rd August 2007 – What a Carry on

The dust is starting to settle on a week long circus of dumb animals and lots of clowns. To make best sense of what has gone on, the first thing is to separate the two issues:

1. The actions of the board

2. The managerial worth of Martin Jol

To view what the board has done, it’s best to contextualize the situation with a bit of history. Jol arrives in 2004 with Spurs in all too familiar board instigated crisis after waiting 9 months to appoint a manager before sacking them after 11 games. Jol’s brief was to get Spurs up the league and get regular European football – which Spurs had previously seen once in the Premiership era – to WHL. In the rest of that season, Spurs marched up the league and were just pipped for a UEFA spot on the last day before recording two 5th placed finishes in the next two seasons, one of which controversially may have been a 4th and the holy grail of CL football but for some dodgy goings on with food poisoning, and of course consecutive UEFA Cup runs.

It was not all plain sailing & I have to admit I’ve not been the greatest fan of his management or footballing styles but Jol had met his targets and as such should have been in a strong position with those who set his targets. Not only this, Spurs for the first time in ages were a fairly together and happy club, something which was reflected at the checkout with record profits as the majority of fans (although not myself) see Jol as the best thing since KB or even Billy Nick

Having messed up 2 of the last 9 seasons by sacking managers who lasted 6 (Hoddle 2003/4) and 3 (Gross 1998/9 Gross) games, the board must have known that if there were any doubts they should have been sorted in the summer but between them (Jol, Commoli and the rest of the Spurs board), they agreed to buy £35m worth of players during this period. An injury hit Spurs side play poorly in two games, losing away in the last minute in one and then getting turned over at home against another CL wannabe. Only Darren Bent of the record summer spending has managed to play under the manager who the bookies had as the third most secure at the start of the season with Younes Kaboul £8,2m, Kevin-Prince Boateng £5,2m & Gareth Bale £10m all absent.

In this context, and in a sport not a widget making business or investment house, how can a crisis meeting four days into a new season which was widely leaked to the press be the actions of a together management with a full grasp on reality

And worse than that, within a couple of days they were out in Spain courting an in contract manager. Ramos was obviously interested in the position (as I’m sure before all else its gonna be a multiple on his current wedge) but probably got cold feet at the cowboys he’d be working with and decided against it

Again this found its way into the press and despite the mealy mouthed club statements no one has denied that Kemsley and the other fella flew out there and contact was made with either Ramos or his people. Whether it was a formal offer or not, they we’re n’t going for the oranges after the crisis meeting with Jol earlier in the week.

And then there is the betting scandal – which knowing the EPL will be quietly forgotten – but all we know is that Jol was backed off the boards with “suspicious betting patters” towards the end of last week. Ask yourself who is likely to have both the inside knowledge and the available spare cash to have such a large punt.

In summary, irrespective of what people think about Jol as a manager, the board have acted like petulant amateurs, acting crassly on a whim without thinking it through, and without recourse to a real plan to achieve the new goals of CL football as opposed to a wish based upon heavy spending. If five teams spend heavily over the summer and there are only four places… someone is going to go home sad.

If Spurs were a real PLC, there would no doubt be a call for an EGM and a vote of confidence but the rights issue which allowed ENIC to buy up a load of shares kyboshed all chance of them answering to anyone but themselves. ENIC are the owners, we are the customers, take it or leave it that is the reality of the situation and they’ll only use “we” when they are trying to take money from your pocket on the basis of belonging to Spurs.
. .




But here’s the rub – as the owners of the club are also part of the management, they are not going to be the ones to fall on their sword when they make errors and it is always going to be the paid employees who get the elbow, irrespective of where the weak links are. It’s not a management practice which exists in the modern era anymore and does not appear to be the most meritocratic or likely to let the most able to flourish.

Spurs will remain a sub-optimal personal fiefdom run on whim and tantrum, and possible the most depressing thing is that if Spurs were sold, the new owners would probably be an even bigger set of bastards as no one takes over a football club for any other reason that to make money.



I ran a poll on the site yesterday which asked, who should go after this latest fiasco. It was not the greatest poll in the world as there was only an either/or and I did not make it clear it was not about Jol’s ability as a manger but just about the events over the last few days as its clear from the comments that many voted for Jol as they don’t rate him as a manager – but it does give an idea where sentiment lies with 79% putting the blame with the Spurs board (at the current time of writing)

Click here to see the latest results from the Jol/Spurs Board Poll – and don’t forget to read the comments!



The actions of the Spurs board have been totally wrong over this whole affair and even if you buy the line that they are desperate for CL football, why on earth did Spurs sell Carrick to would be Champions League rivals last season. Man U, a properly run club with a board who know what they are doing won’t even sell their reserve left back to a domestic CL rival. I wonder what they will do with Berbatov now. Perhaps one of Jol’s faults in slagging off his own players will be used as an excuse for the board to double their money yet again before the window shuts but surely they can’t have it both ways – “we’ll stamp our feet up and down if we don’t get CL football but equally we do love a profit”. Time will reveal their true intentions



Robbo did not have a good night for England last night but as in the past, he is a man of few but very well chosen words and has come out in defence of Jol which I’m sure echo the majority of right minded people around Spurs:

"What's been happening at the club is very disappointing. When you see how far Martin Jol has taken the club and the way he's managed it in the last two years, to then go behind his back to obviously seek other options is very disappointing. The manager has the full support of the players.

"I think it is very difficult for him. There's been a lot that's happened and what the club has done is very disappointing. The players are 110% behind the manager and we just hope he stays as long as possible.

"I think it is known throughout the club the way the players feel about the manager. I think there a lot of players who are disappointed with the way things have unfolded this week.

"To question somebody's job after three games of the season is ridiculous, especially after what the man has done in the last two years.

"It's been difficult not to be affected by things, we see the TV and media like everyone and it is unsettling, especially when we've been settled for the last two or three seasons."

Great stuff from Robbo but let’s hope the players do not use it as excuse to fold against Man U at the weekend. Surely if they are behind Jol and more importantly have any self respect, they will try doubly hard to turn over a weakened Man U side and show the board up for what they are



Even the old Badger had a few wise words to offer:

"The players have to know you are the one in power, that you are in control and in authority. Events of the last few days have seen that taken away from Martin Jol.

"If anything, this statement from Tottenham puts serious doubts over him and asks more questions than it answers. The players will now be wondering 'How long will this bloke be in charge for? Is there going to be a change soon?'. That erodes authority for Jol. Particularly now he is going to have to drop some big-name players given the squad he has got. You need to feel empowered to do that.

"If I was a manager and my club had come out with a statement like that I would be extremely disappointed."



While there is no doubt in my mind that the actions of the Spurs board over the last week, the second part of this equation is the ability of Jol as a manager. In an ideal world this would be left for another time but it does form the basis of the board’s unhappiness and needs to be addressed. While I have no doubt what the club have done is wrong, there is a genuine case for having some issues with him as a manager

· He is far too negative.

· He plays a different system away from home than at home despite the same three points being on offer.

· He distances himself from defeats blaming individuals but is back to the first person when Spurs do well and to me at least comes across as a bit of a con artist & bullzhitter in the Steffen Fraud mould.

· He has been tactically out-thought for all the cup exits last season which also overlaps into the too negative territory.

· He has yet to get the right balance to the side with a lop sided midfield



That said, nothing is ever perfect and it could be a lot worse and it has to be remembered that the majority probably around 3 in 4 or 4 in 5 adore Jol and what he has done for Spurs. As such, while I hold my view on Jol, I do accept the view of the majority.

And all these issues were the same at the end of last season as they were after 2 games of this season so there is no way you can read the actions of the board as anything other than a petulant whim.



I want Spurs to be higher up the league, even win the bloody thing but then I’ve never known Spurs sustain a challenge at the top of the league apart from 84/5 under Omar (and if you think Jol’s treatment was unfair – the Cabbie got the bullet on the back of 5-2, 4-2, 5-3 wins, the highest points per game record of all Spurs managers ever

Peter Shreeves 80s
Played
Won
Drew
Lost
For
Against
PPG

Football League
84
42
16
26
152
103
1.69

Cup Competitions & Other matches
33
14
9
10
52
27
58%

Total - Peter Shreeves 80s
117
56
25
36
204
130



But at least they did it at the end of a season and not three games in.



Again I look at the squads and think Spurs have the 4th or 5th best squad so in terms of results, is Jol that much of a problem? Spurs may have spent all that money, but so have other teams and it takes more than throwing money at an issue to make it work. While I am not always happy with how negative Spurs play, esp. after taking the lead, I am comfortable with where Spurs are in the League and lets face it, we all may be a bit more cautious if it was our job rather than our hobby.



The end of this sorry tale – an own goal of Lee Dixon-esque proportions by the board - is this: The events of the last week mean that every time Spurs lose, or play poorly, the pressure will be dumped on Jol as it is out in the open that its CL or bust for him. The rumpus has also allowed some normal dressing room dissent to come out which makes the situation look worse than it is. It is an impossible situation for him to work under and while Jol is Spurs manager this season looks f**ked. It would show some belated loyalty to Jol to see if he can ride out the next few games but having made this mess, it is probably in the best interests of the football club as a whole for a new man to come in as its when and not if for Jol. My snout said Jol is gone and only wins against Utd and/or Arsenal could force the board to save him. If Ramos won’t come, then Mark Hughes – originally touted as number 2 to the Trappatoni white elephant back in early 2004 seems most likely but that will cost Spurs £4m to lose Jol and another few million to prize Hughes away from Blackburn – money that could be better spent on a decent leftsided midfielder.

As a fan, I may welcome someone who could make Spurs play with a bit more in line with the spirit of RD Blanchflower where the football is good and in the spirit of what I understand to be Tottenham Hotspur but am quite well aware that the majority of Spurs supporters just want Spurs to win and love Jol so that is where the football club, esp. in this modern era should be looking



And so to Man U at the weekend – English footballs most glamorous fixture. I was there the last time Spurs won on a dank December day with Glary Rineker brilliant winner back in the late Tony Wilson’s Madchester heyday of 1989 but since then Spurs have managed four draws and five goals in 18 visits, which is 2 draws and 3 goals in the last 13. I wonder if they have given Jol a return ticket or even worse, have had a good bet on Man U assuming the account has been unfrozen

But United are behind Spurs in the league and without Rooney and Ronaldo and if a couple of injured players can come back and Spurs can produce an extra effort for the manager (and the manager does not go all negative), you never know it could be the greatest shock at OT since the 70s legends of Pratt Moores and Coates turned a 2-0 half time deficit into a magical 3-2 win which was the only away one of a season which saw Spurs relegated but with a board strong enough to keep the fella in charge who repaid them with immediate promotion and a hatful of domestic trophies, top four finishes and a European trophy.

It’s his parting words, rather than the legacy of the 60s glory days which haunts Spurs.

galinka

Good post - don't agree with all of it but a lot of Spurs fans have no perspective of reality.

We always think we will win the League but only have done so twice ever - when teams like Blackpool, Stoke and Huddersfield were in Div 1 - yeah remember that league!

I don't necessarily think this needs to be a bad season - if our pampered overpaid primadonnas get their acts together we could climb this table fast. The so called top 4 are struggling every bit as much as us.

Several of our injured players are ready to make a come back - if the Manager can turn the siege mentality into a positive who says we can't beat a Utd short their best 2 players on Sunday.

When you follow Spurs hope springs eternal - starting Sunday?

Robxxx7

galinka wrote:

Good post - don't agree with all of it but a lot of Spurs fans have no perspective of reality.

We always think we will win the League but only have done so twice ever - when teams like Blackpool, Stoke and Huddersfield were in Div 1 - yeah remember that league!

I don't necessarily think this needs to be a bad season - if our pampered overpaid primadonnas get their acts together we could climb this table fast. The so called top 4 are struggling every bit as much as us.

Several of our injured players are ready to make a come back - if the Manager can turn the siege mentality into a positive who says we can't beat a Utd short their best 2 players on Sunday.

When you follow Spurs hope springs eternal - starting Sunday?

Word

Lets put the past week behind us and get behind the team ..... COYS

Hatch99

Tony Gale and a bloke from The Mirror were on sky this morning, and they both reckon Jol will resign the weekend....mighten be far off the mark !!

Leinstersqspur

Spurs have been at the centre of claim and counter-claim over the future of head coach Martin Jol in recent days, denying reports that they had made an offer to Sevilla coach Juande Ramos to take over after the north London club started the season with two defeats.


Now Italian coach Capello, who led Real to the Spanish title last season, has unwittingly been linked with the post, having visited England with his son Pier Filippo for talks with representatives of the United States Soccer Federation.


'At the end of the meeting [with the USSF] I was approached by (sports lawyer) Mel Goldberg about him being my representative in England,' Capello told The Times. 'At no time did I have any contact with Tottenham and I did not come over for the Tottenham job.'


A Spurs spokesman said last night: 'We have received a couple of calls about top managers and they have been told politely in no uncertain terms that we are not about to change manager. Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy insists Jol has his '100% support' to continue in the job.

Here we are again; Spurs fans must again endure being linked with every player, manager and mascot as the papers begin to link us with every available manager on mother earth.

Tony Gale the now "quality sun journalist" and someone from "the mirror"? I would exactly call that gospel...... Im sure William Hill pay them well for there cheap remarks....!!!

Levy has backed Jol 100% till the end of the season. I hope we wipe the floor at Old Trafford and the Spurs go marchin on! Im sure the board may see a more high profile manager as ideal come next summer but for them to change 3 games in would be pure madness.

No team news yet, I hope Bale and Daws feature. Robbie bagged a couple in mid-week practice.... COYS!

Snake Plisken

Right lads here's Martin's press conference from today and my respect of the man has grown he answered all the questions put to him in a truthfull way

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_6960000/newsid_6962800/6962842.stm?bw=bb&mp=rm&news=1

Snake

el diablo

decent performance yesterday but really need to win our next 2 matches, Fulham away and Arse at home.
it's still August and we've lost 3 league matches already. :eek:

any news on when Dawson and Lennon will be ready for action?