What is the meaning of life on Earth?

Zillah

kelly1 wrote:

So I supposed His own perfection and omnipotence is His meaning.

This is utterly ridiculous. I can't even read this tripe any more.

aidan24326

kelly1 wrote:

I don't accept that belief in the one true God is invented. It was revealed directly by God.


God loves a person regardless of their physical abilities. Even though they don't know it yet, Heaven exists where the just will enjoy the bliss of God forever.

You are very typical of so many religious believers, you confuse fact with fiction, your own opinions with the hard facts as they present themsleves. There is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL for heaven or an afterlife. None. Zero.

You can believe it all you want but that's just the cold hard fact of the matter, not my opinion but a fact. If some evidence became available we'd be forced to re-evaluate, but not one single person who ever died has managed to pass us on a message or tell us what a great time they're having in heaven. Not one.

For an afterlife to be possible it is necessary that our conscious mind be somehow separate from our physical brain, something else which there's no evidence for and which seems very unlikely.

Also, I find it odd that religious people like yourself should consider the idea of eternal life appealing. Personally I'd find it a bit frightening. Forever and ever and ever with no get out of jail card, no escape. In the words of Paul Davies, forever is a long time.

What exactly do you plan on doing for the next trillion years?

MooseJam

aidan24326 wrote:

What exactly do you plan on doing for the next trillion years?

exactly, I don't care how blissfull it is being with God It's going to start getting stale after o we'll give him the benefit of doubt and say 100 years, It would be hell after 1000 years and just imagine 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years , maybe they have ping pong in heaven to relieve the boredom, think about it - really think about what forever means :eek:

aidan24326

MooseJam wrote:

exactly, I don't care how blissfull it is being with God It's going to start getting stale after o we'll give him the benefit of doubt and say 100 years, It would be hell after 1000 years and just imagine 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years , maybe they have ping pong in heaven to relieve the boredom, think about it - really think about what forever means :eek:

I really don't think religious people stop to actually think about that, to consider the consequences of existing forever. It's very daunting. I get bored easily (praise allah for the interweb!), heaven would want to be a very interesting place.

The muslims have it sorted though. I like their way of thinking. You'd never get bored with those 72 babes to keep you happy

adam_ccfc

kelly1 wrote:

Consider that a generation after you die you will mostly be forgotten.

Why live life? What gives life a purpose?

Hmm, curious wording there, Noel.

My view is thus: we are, in essence, our genes. We are survival machines (to quote Dawkins on the issue), made of a collection of genes cobbled together, which utilise the survival machine (us) for their continual existence and replication. When we die, it is merely the death of said machine, the genes that constitute our being live on, continue to replicate.

Every gene that makes up my body (apart, in a pedantic sense, from any minor mutant genes) has lived before me, and will live afterwards. My purpose is to carry these genes for whatever relatively short period of time, and then to give them a safe passage to the next generation.

Is this an empty, rather melancholic outlook? No, I don't believe so.
In fact, I find the notion that every individual part of my being is, essentially, immortal, even if I am not, to be quite an ingratiating one.
In any case, I wouldn't wish to be immortal.

Zillah

aidan24326 wrote:

You'd never get bored with those 72 babes to keep you happy

Figs. 72 figs.

kelly1

aidan24326 wrote:

What exactly do you plan on doing for the next trillion years?

I believe that the joy that God will give will be ever new and never stale. I believe that through baptism, we become children of God and our souls are transformed into the "image and likeness of God." This happens through God's grace and this gives the human being a dignity far higher than all of creation. Everyone in Heaven will be united intimately with God and share in His
divinity and endless joys.

This certainly gives me a good reason for getting up in the morning!

kelly1

Wicknight wrote:

You didn't really answer the question

Fair enough, I don't know the mind of God.

Wicknight wrote:

If God can exist and decide for himself what his purpose is, without this existence being therefore meaningless, why can't we?

We can of course decide that we don't need God and go decide our own meaning, but that doesn't prove that He doesn't exist and that He has no purpose for us. You can't prove a negative.

death1234567

kelly1 wrote:

I believe that the joy that God will give will be ever new and never stale. I believe that through baptism, we become children of God and our souls are transformed into the "image and likeness of God." This happens through God's grace and this gives the human being a dignity far higher than all of creation. Everyone in Heaven will be united intimately with God and share in His
divinity and endless joys.

This certainly gives me a good reason for getting up in the morning!

What about the people who weren't baptised, what happens them?

Galvasean

Anyone see that old episode of the Twilight Zone where some mobster guy dies and goes to heaven. His guardian angel is showing around and the mobster asks, "How come I got in here and not the other place?" After living the afterlife of luxury the guy eventually goes bonkers because it has gotten so boring and predictable. His guardian angel finally tells him, "This is the other place!"

MooseJam

adam_ccfc wrote:

My purpose is to carry these genes for whatever relatively short period of time, and then to give them a safe passage to the next generation.

But it's not a "purpose" , carrying your genes and passing them on is just something we do

kelly1

death1234567 wrote:

What about the people who weren't baptised, what happens them?

God of couse has the ability to baptise a person without human intervention. A person who through no fault of his/her own hasn't heard the message of the Gospel can be saved if God judges that they've lived a good life.

lookinforpicnic

adam_ccfc wrote:

Every gene that makes up my body (apart, in a pedantic sense, from any minor mutant genes) has lived before me, and will live afterwards. My purpose is to carry these genes for whatever relatively short period of time, and then to give them a safe passage to the next generation.

Is this an empty, rather melancholic outlook? No, I don't believe so.
In fact, I find the notion that every individual part of my being is, essentially, immortal, even if I am not, to be quite an ingratiating one.

I don't find much solace really in knowing that my genes will carry on to the next generation, I take much more solace knowing that my memory or my ideas or my personality will be remembered or influence the people around me. Identifying myself with my genes I find very empty, my cultural experiences is was I identify with myself.

(maybe this reasoning is because my genes are not an unique set -I'm an identical twin by the way, my brother can pass my genes on for me!... naw just kidding thats not the reasoning behind it.)

daveirl

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kelly1

daveirl wrote:

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You can never prove that God doesn't exist. Just because you don't experience Him with your physical sense does not prove His non-existence. Which fact are you referring to?

Tim Robbins

kelly1 wrote:

You can never prove that God doesn't exist. Just because you don't experience Him with your physical sense does not prove His non-existence. Which fact are you referring to?

You can't really prove anything outside Maths. You can come up with some very strong arguments which rebutt the existence of God. But first you have define God.

What is God? An all loving, all powerful, all knowing being.

If an all loving, all powerful, all knowing being exists why do kids get Cancer?

It is impossible for an all loving, all powerful all knowing being to exist and for kids to get Cancer. Either he is:
1. not all loving - he doesn't care about the kid getting cancer
2. not all powerful - he can't do anything about the kid getting cancer
3. not all knowing - he doesn't know the kid got cancer.

But the implication either way is:
an all loving, all powerful, all knowing entity does not exist.

kelly1

Tim Robbins wrote:

You can't really prove anything outside Maths. You can come up with some very strong arguments which rebutt the existence of God. But first you have define God.

What is God? An all loving, all powerful, all knowing being.

If an all loving, all powerful, all knowing being exists why do kids get Cancer?

It is impossible for an all loving, all powerful all knowing being to exist and for kids to get Cancer. Either he is:
1. not all loving - he doesn't care about the kid getting cancer
2. not all powerful - he can't do anything about the kid getting cancer
3. not all knowing - he doesn't know the kid got cancer.

But the implication either way is:
an all loving, all powerful, all knowing entity does not exist.

First you have to ask yourself, what causes cancer. Is it bad diet, mobile phones, radiation, toxic substances, stress etc. You can't blame God for these things
and neither do you know that God causes cancer.

Apart from that consideration, God always has our ultimate good in mind. For a child who does have cancer, his untimate fate is really what's at stake, not his earthly pain. God can permit suffering to bring us back to our senses. Lots of people only think of God when things go wrong, when we hit rock bottom and are forced to assess our priorities and purpose. Maybe it's the child's parents/relatives who need waking up? This life is only a pilgrimage to our final destination.

Ciaran500

kelly1 wrote:

First you have to ask yourself, what causes cancer. Is it bad diet, mobile phones, radiation, toxic substances, stress etc. You can't blame God for these things
and neither do you know that God causes cancer.

He's all powerful, he can change everyone one of those things.

Tim Robbins

kelly1 wrote:

First you have to ask yourself, what causes cancer. Is it bad diet, mobile phones, radiation, toxic substances, stress etc. You can't blame God for these things
and neither do you know that God causes cancer.

Well pick a genetic disease that has unquestionable nothing to do with mankind or enviroment?

Apart from that consideration, God always has our ultimate good in mind. For a child who does have cancer, his untimate fate is really what's at stake, not his earthly pain. God can permit suffering to bring us back to our senses. Lots of people only think of God when things go wrong, when we hit rock bottom and are forced to assess our priorities and purpose. Maybe it's the child's parents/relatives who need waking up? This life is only a pilgrimage to our final destination.

Yes that's the standard rebuttal: God knows better in the long run.
But the rebuttal to that is that you are saying you and your faith knows better than logic. I'll stick with logic.

kelly1

Ciaran500 wrote:

He's all powerful, he can change everyone one of those things.

What about free will? A God who forced us to love Him, wouldn't be a loving God, would he? We would be slaves.

God, being the good Father he is tells us "don't play with knives or you'll get cut". But we of course knowing better than God go ahead and get cut. God let's us make mistakes to teach us lessons.

Tim Robbins

kelly1 wrote:

What about free will? A God who forced us to love Him, wouldn't be a loving God, would he? We would be slaves.

1. You would have far more free will to love God if we unquestionably knew he exists.
2. You don't really have free will, because if you don't do what God wants you get punished. Hardly freedom if there is a fear of punishment.

God, being the good Father he is tells us "don't play with knives or you'll get cut". But we of course knowing better than God go ahead and get cut. God let's us make mistakes to teach us lessons.

You are missing the point about the child / cancer argument. The point is that the child has done nothing wrong and is still getting punished. How can there be any free will with genetic diseases?

kelly1

Tim Robbins wrote:

1. You would have far more free will to love God if we unquestionably knew he exists.

I don't think so. God requires faith from us. Anyone who saw Him could never deny His existence. Think of what happened to the fallen angels. The could see God in all His glory and yet they rebelled against Him and were cast into Hell never to be redeemed. We on the other hand can't see God so those who have faith can expect a very great reward to believing without seeing. Also we get lots of second chances unlike the angels.

Tim Robbins wrote:

2. You don't really have free will, because if you don't do what God wants you get punished. Hardly freedom if there is a fear of punishment.

True freedom is in doing God's will because sin is slavery. We make ourselves slaves of the devil.

Tim Robbins wrote:

You are missing the point about the child / cancer argument. The point is that the child has done nothing wrong and is still getting punished. How can there be any free will with genetic diseases?

What causes genetic disease. Was it there from the beginning of mankind or was it caused by man made radiation or somesuch?

Tim Robbins

kelly1 wrote:

I don't think so. God requires faith from us. Anyone who saw Him could never deny His existence. Think of what happened to the fallen angels. The could see God in all His glory and yet they rebelled against Him and were cast into Hell never to be redeemed. We on the other hand can't see God so those who have faith can expect a very great reward to believing without seeing. Also we get lots of second chances unlike the angels.

There is no good evidence of what happened to the fallen angel is what you think happened.

Are you a father? Would your children have more or less free will if you hid your existence from them?Do you hide yourself from them like "god" hides himself from us in order to give them free will?

True freedom is in doing God's will because sin is slavery. We make ourselves slaves of the devil.

You are using rhetoric here not logic Noel.
True freedom is doing whatever you want without worrying what other people / entities / Gods are going to do to you.

What causes genetic disease. Was it there from the beginning of mankind or was it caused by man made radiation or somesuch?

It depends on the disease. But what did the person who had the disease do to deserve it? Please answer that. Do you think it is right that people get these diseases?

kelly1

Tim Robbins wrote:

True freedom is doing whatever you want without worrying what other people / entities / Gods are going to do to you.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

Tim Robbins wrote:

It depends on the disease. But what did the person who had the disease do to deserve it? Please answer that. Do you think it is right that people get these diseases?

I'm not God, I don't know! Sh1t happens.

daveirl

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Tim Robbins

I'm not God, I don't know! Sh1t happens.

Well you are happy believing without answering that, but for many people those questions are ample reasons to adopt a position of disbelief. It is impossible for a lot of people to reconcile an all caring, all powerful, all knowing creator with the existence of genetic diseases not to mention that most mammals are eaten to death. A universe without an all loving, all knowing, all caring creater makes more sense.

Good luck, pleasure chatting to you.

JC 2K3

kelly1 wrote:

Can you be certain of this? Can't you allow for the possibility that there is a purpose and meaning to our existence?

What is this "meaning" you speak of?

Like, define "meaning", what the hell is "meaning"??

kelly1 wrote:

Absolutely! I believe that when I die, I will go to Heaven, assuming I've lived a good life according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This gives me hope knowing that I'll continue to exist after my physical body dies. I live in the hope that life in Heaven will be beautiful and joyous beyond words. I truly believe this will all my heart and soul and I don't believe this is a fairy-tale!

What is the "meaning" of life in Heaven?

kelly1 wrote:

Material things will never make me happy because it's a hunger that can never be fed and feeding it only makes the hunger grow.

Gotta agree 100% there.

kelly1 wrote:

The meaning of life is a fundamental question and one that deserves to be thoroughly investigated. I think Atheism can be used as cop-out to be frank.

kelly1 wrote:

You've got me there. I don't know what God's own purpose is really. I believe He is perfectly happy in Himself and doesn't need us for His own happiness or to give His own existence meaning. He is perfect in every way and lacks nothing. So I supposed His own perfection and omnipotence is His meaning.

It's a big question, too big for my tiny mind

That sounds like a cop out to me. You've hardly thoroughly investigated the question if you're going to come out with something like that.

kelly1

daveirl wrote:

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I don't see how more than 1 god could exist. There must be one who created the others or there is only One.

daveirl

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adam_ccfc

MooseJam wrote:

But it's not a "purpose" , carrying your genes and passing them on is just something we do

No, I believe that it is a purpose. We are survival machine built by our genes for the express purpose of passing the genes on.