What is the meaning of life on Earth?

indough

Mysterians believe that we will never be able to understand the human mind, thats not what I said, and it's also not what I personally believe. What I said/meant is that we are far from the level of understanding it.

Functionalism is younger (more recent) than behavourism. It came about because of the many problems associated with behaviourism. Dualism may be an old concept, but its not outdated. Many modern scientists and philosophers working in the field of mind research remain dualists to this day.

Just realized we've both gone way off topic at this stage, we should probably get back to discussing the original question in future. It was an interesting discussion though all the same

lookinforpicnic

indough wrote:

Mysterians believe that we will never be able to understand the human mind, thats not what I said, and it's also not what I personally believe. What I said/meant is that we are far from the level of understanding it..

Well that is just a personal opinion then a not a fact as you put it earlier, as they are many people who think they understand consciousness just fine.

indough wrote:

Functionalism is younger (more recent) than behavourism. It came about because of the many problems associated with behaviourism. .

I know this of course but in my head it made sense, but I should have said younger but hopefully you know what mean, behaviourism facilitated the conceptual change whereas functionalism merely improved upon it.

indough wrote:

Dualism may be an old concept, but its not outdated.
Many modern scientists and philosophers working in the field of mind research remain dualists to this day.

Maybe there is some dualists (but they would never admit such in an academic journal) still around but good luck to them, they'll need it. But I don't doubt that dualistic ideas still very much permeate our neuroscience and psychology today, as it does our language.

just seen your edit yeah we have drifted a bit though so maybe should call it to halt alright, enjoyed it though, hopefully some guys will find it interesting, also bed is calling.

Zillah

indough wrote:

It shows a correlation between motor functions, the CNS and such, but they're not the mind. It's still not enough proof though. Not just saying this for arguments sake, it's just a fact that we know **** all about the human brain and the mind

Different drugs can drastically alter any aspect of the mind you care to mention. Morality, perception, concentration, intelligence, emotions, patience, everything and anything. And there are innumerable substances who's chemical interactions with the brain are well understood.

There are parasites that can cause changes in aggression, trust etc: "There are fewer experiments in humans, but results from studies of students and conscript soldiers in the Czech Republic in the mid-1990s highlighted the fact that infected people showed different personality traits to non-infected people - and that the differences depended on sex. Infected men were more likely to be aggressive, jealous and suspicious, while women became more outgoing and showed signs of higher intelligence." Source.

There's also cases of brain tumours and brain damage drastically altering people's minds. For example, this poor guy became a paedophile when he got a brain tumour, and went back to normal after it was operated on.

Its been reported that stimulation of a particular part of the brain during surgery can cause patients to have a powerful sense of the presence of God.

Its pretty damn conclusive that the mind is a product of the brain.

indough

:mad:

LOL only kidding, I did state earlier that I do believe the mind and the brain are related, I was just presenting the argument that there is still not conclusive enough evidence to prove that it's a certainty.

The fact that there are countless books on the subject and that it's still a hotly debated topic in the scientific and philosophical communities is evidence for this.

It does seem intuitive to assume that the mind and brain are related though so I see where you're coming from, and as I said I do believe it myself. It's just that we really can't take anything for granted.

Zillah

indough wrote:

It does seem intuitive to assume that the mind and brain are related though so I see where you're coming from, and as I said I do believe it myself. It's just that we really can't take anything for granted.

Intuitive doesn't come into it. There is a titanic amount of evidence that the mind is a product of the brain. I see no reason to complicate it beyond that.

indough

Then don't. Believe whatever you want.

joe_chicken

Thought of this thread when I saw this link in After Hours...

The purpose of life is...

A lot of stupid answers, but some insightful ones.

It's an interesting idea, if we get everyone on the planet to write down their purpose in life, we could probably work out from statistics what our actual purpose is
I'm joking, by the way

Dades

joe_chicken wrote:

It's an interesting idea, if we get everyone on the planet to write down their purpose in life, we could probably work out from statistics what our actual purpose is.

If everyone on the planet contributed we'd probably discover the "average" purpose in life is to find enough food to feed yourself. It's easier to speculate on a higher purpose with a full belly.

Zillah

And even then, you're working on the assumption that human beings know their purpose...

Pinker

Has life any meaning?..most likely not what meaning could it have??...To serve a God, why??...To go to heaven, unlikely, for what would heaven consist of??..and who created heaven??..and who created God??...
Also at what point did humans begin to have to worship God or gain entry to heaven??

in other words at what point in the evolutionary process did
A:it become neccesary to worship God
and
B:we gain entry to heaven?

Or maybe all organisms have to worship god and they all go to heaven, even bacteria, maybe even the aids virus goes to heaven....

Get over it, there is no heaven or hell or god for that matter, they are pre-scientifc era man made fabrications, life is just life enjoy it

Dave!

Well... that was certainly a revelation!

Scofflaw

DaveMcG wrote:

Well... that was certainly a revelation!

Yup. Still, I have this feeling that we should somehow have figured it out on our own...

blinded by the light,
Scofflaw

kelly1

Pinker wrote:

Has life any meaning?..most likely not what meaning could it have??...To serve a God, why??...

Yes because doing God's will makes the world a better place and gives glory to God.

Pinker wrote:

To go to heaven, unlikely, for what would heaven consist of??

Why not, it's our ultimate destiny as willed by God.

Pinker wrote:

..and who created heaven??

God

Pinker wrote:

and who created God??...

Nobody, He's the only uncreated being and exists eternally.

Pinker wrote:

Also at what point did humans begin to have to worship God or gain entry to heaven??

From the time that the first human was given a soul e.g. Adam. Evolution doesn't necessarily contradict the Christian faith. We believe that at some point, there was a first human person who was given an immortal soul i.e. Adam. If evolution humans evolved from apes etc, then humans before adam were entirely mortal since they had no souls.

Pinker wrote:

Or maybe all organisms have to worship god and they all go to heaven, even bacteria, maybe even the aids virus goes to heaven....

Nothing like that was ever revealed by Christ. It's a bit of a silly idea really.

Pinker wrote:

Get over it, there is no heaven or hell or god for that matter, they are pre-scientifc era man made fabrications, life is just life enjoy it

No thanks, I'm putting my trust in God. There's no contradiction between science and religion. It's just that natural science can't detect the supernatural.

Regards,
Noel.

MooseJam

kelly1 wrote:

Nobody, He's the only uncreated being and exists eternally.

Noel.

the thing about infinity is it goes backwards as well as forwards, god can never exist in the present because the present can never be reached in an infinity.

Ekancone

MooseJam wrote:

the thing about infinity is it goes backwards as well as forwards, god can never exist in the present because the present can never be reached in an infinity.

Yeah, but God says infinity plus one!

Asiaprod

MooseJam wrote:

the thing about infinity is it goes backwards as well as forwards, god can never exist in the present because the present can never be reached in an infinity.

I sure hope someone can explain all that to me, I am lost.

Ekancone

Pinker wrote:

Has life any meaning?..most likely not what meaning could it have??

For God.

Pinker wrote:

...To serve a God, why??

Because God said so.

Pinker wrote:

...To go to heaven, unlikely, for what would heaven consist of??

God.

Pinker wrote:

..and who created heaven??

God.

Pinker wrote:

..and who created God??...

God.

Pinker wrote:

Also at what point did humans begin to have to worship God or gain entry to heaven??

Because God told them to.

Pinker wrote:

in other words at what point in the evolutionary process did
A:it become neccesary to worship God
and
B:we gain entry to heaven?

When God said so.

Pinker wrote:

Or maybe all organisms have to worship god and they all go to heaven, even bacteria, maybe even the aids virus goes to heaven....

God.

Pinker wrote:

Get over it, there is no heaven or hell or god for that matter, they are pre-scientifc era man made fabrications, life is just life enjoy it

God.

Ekancone

Asiaprod wrote:

I sure hope someone can explain all that to me, I am lost.

God made it so.





(This is quite handy for arguments actually, i can see why this is so appealing now!) :rolleyes: :cool:

Scofflaw

daithifleming wrote:

For God.

Because God said so.

God.

God.

God.

Because God told them to.

When God said so.

God.

God.

So, not 42 then?

cordially,
Scofflaw

Ekancone

Scofflaw wrote:

So, not 42 then?

cordially,
Scofflaw

MooseJam

Asiaprod wrote:

I sure hope someone can explain all that to me, I am lost.

take this moment as the center of an infinite timeline, there is an infinity in the future and an infinity in the past they are both the exact same duration, people who believe in god say he has existed for the infinity in the past but he will never complete the infinity in the future, the infinities are equal if he can't complete the infinity in the future likewise he can't complete the infinty in the past, he is off living in the past somewhere. Bottom line is you can't complete an infinty, even god can't, thats the beauty of infinty, even an all powerfull god can't complete infinity.

kelly1

MooseJam wrote:

the thing about infinity is it goes backwards as well as forwards, god can never exist in the present because the present can never be reached in an infinity.

Not sure what you mean there. God exists outside of time.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

Gegerty

Everything just is. The reason why most people cannot comprehend this is because we cannot comprehend just how long 15 billion+ years is. If we could it would make perfect sense. Although I cannot comprehend 15 billion years (which is at least how old the universe is) I can comprehend that its a long enough time for life to develop.

Gegerty

kelly1 wrote:

Not sure what you mean there. God exists outside of time.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

As do all non humans. Time is a man made thing....for everyone else there is day and night.

kelly1

Gegerty wrote:

Everything just is. The reason why most people cannot comprehend this is because we cannot comprehend just how long 15 billion+ years is. If we could it would make perfect sense. Although I cannot comprehend 15 billion years (which is at least how old the universe is) I can comprehend that its a long enough time for life to develop.

I could be wrong about this but doesn't the law of entrophy state that order diminishes with time in an enclosed system? Any physicists out there to verify this? So how could more and more complex life forms come into existence over time without external input? Or am I just a simpleton

MooseJam

kelly1 wrote:

Not sure what you mean there. God exists outside of time.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternity

you can't exist outside of time, time being just a measure of how long passes between events, if you are existing there must be time

Ekancone

MooseJam wrote:

you can't exist outside of time, time being just a measure of how long passes between events, if you are existing there must be time

YES! But the laws of physics dont apply to God through reverse speciation!!!!

kelly1

MooseJam wrote:

you can't exist outside of time, time being just a measure of how long passes between events, if you are existing there must be time

You can't be sure of that in the same way that you can't be sure that God doesn't exist. Why is an "eternal now" an impossibility. I don't claim to know what this really means but I'm not going to dismiss it just because I don't understand it.

Scofflaw

kelly1 wrote:

I could be wrong about this but doesn't the law of entrophy state that order diminishes with time in an enclosed system? Any physicists out there to verify this? So how could more and more complex life forms come into existence over time without external input? Or am I just a simpleton

Assuming for the moment, very unkindly, that you are a simpleton, I will give you a simple answer: the great big ball of fire in the sky that we call the Sun is the external input.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Gegerty

MooseJam wrote:

you can't exist outside of time, time being just a measure of how long passes between events, if you are existing there must be time

Time is just a man made thing. In the 4th dimension you are you at every stage of time all at the same instance....i.e time is irrelevant. We perceive life in the 3rd dimension, time is just our way of explaining what we see. In other words we all exist outside of time, but we can only perceive ourselves in the 3rd dimension.