Car Tax - Surely theres enough of us

RobAMerc

Surely there is enough of us to get a petition together to make road tax based on usage rather than ownership of the car ?

I am sick to the back teeth of paying €750 odd euro for a "big" engined (2.2) which sits in my driveway because I choose to cycle or take the wifes smaller cc'd car to work (As the government suggests I do).

Surely if we petition the Green dude who is looking into reforming the motor tax system here we'll get some response !

Anyone here any interest - I will set petition up if someone who uses their keyboard purty is willing to pen the cover note and theres enough interest here.

godtabh

RobAMerc wrote:

Surely there is enough of us to get a petition together to make road tax based on usage rather than ownership of the car ?

I am sick to the back teeth of paying €750 odd euro for a "big" engined (2.2) which sits in my driveway because I choose to cycle or take the wifes smaller cc'd car to work (As the government suggests I do).

Surely if we petition the Green dude who is looking into reforming the motor tax system here we'll get some response !

Anyone here any interest - I will set petition up if someone who uses their keyboard purty is willing to pen the cover note and theres enough interest here.

If you dont use the car why have regardless of the engine size? Its not the goverments fault you bought a large car a decided not to use it

smash

If you do't drive it then sell it and get yourself a smaller size car for when you do drive... count yourself lucky, my Tax is 1,109 a year and I know others paying 1,343 for cars they take out maybe once a month if even.

Donald Fagen

kearnsr wrote:

Its not the goverments fault you bought a large car a decided not to use it

QFT.

My tax is about €1400 pa - but it's my choice what size engine to get, and how often I use the car. The OP's idea is totally dumb, and could never work, as the reasoning and/or solution doesn't even have any logic behind it.

Henry Ford III

Don't bother. They'd laugh at us.

p.s. Besides they are all still on holidays probably.

godtabh

steve06 wrote:

If you do't drive it then sell it and get yourself a smaller size car for when you do drive... count yourself lucky, my Tax is 1,109 a year and I know others paying 1,343 for cars they take out maybe once a month if even.

Mines €272 or something like that.

RobAMerc

Donald Fagen wrote:

QFT.

My tax is about €1400 pa - but it's my choice what size engine to get, and how often I use the car. The OP's idea is totally dumb, and could never work, as the reasoning and/or solution doesn't even have any logic behind it.

What kind of shi*te is this- its simple -

the reasoning is - why pay for ownership and not use
the solution is - 0 road tax and pay it through the fuel prices being hiked up.

Any car enthusiasts I know aspire to having something nice to drive at the weekends - I presumed to much of the boards trolls!

Cionád

Its a crazy idea.

What about all the people living in rural areas where it might be 20 miles to the nearest shop, and little or no public transport, they'd end up paying way over the odds and would have no alternative.

Not to mention the fact that people who live in these areas are often using bog standard roads which have not seen a penny in years from "road tax"

smash

what about those of us why have big engine nice cars that we drive ALL the time.... Why should we pay so much more for petrol just so you can have a nice weekend in your car every now and then!!!!!!

Ger the man

I know lots of people who have big cars (2 litre and over) where a smaller car would suffice. They regularly complain about the cost of running it, fuel consumption, tax etc as well as complaining about not having the money for anything else. If you want a big car be prepared to pay the running costs - simple as that!

godtabh

RobAMerc wrote:

What kind of shi*te is this- its simple -

the reasoning is - why pay for ownership and not use
the solution is - 0 road tax and pay it through the fuel prices being hiked up.

Any car enthusiasts I know aspire to having something nice to drive at the weekends - I presumed to much of the boards trolls!

If you can afford a car for weekend use only you can afford the tax.

If you cant afford it pick a more appropiate means of transport.

PS Just cause you dont like what you hear it doesnt mean people are trolling

craichoe

steve06 wrote:

what about those of us why have big engine nice cars that we drive ALL the time.... Why should we pay so much more for petrol just so you can have a nice weekend in your car every now and then!!!!!!

A. Because you drive a big engined car ALL the time. Environmentally Un-friendly

B.He drives on the weekend because he enjoys driving and living in the city makes it unreasonable and stupid to drive a car. If anything hes being courteous to the likes of you.

C. Because you use the road network more than he does. Cause more wear and tear and hence should pay more for using is. If someone uses it less they should pay less.


I think factoring it into fuel costs would be a really good idea.

Less admin costs ( no long queues at the tax office)
Harder to dodge (clowns simply not paying and saying its a new car or in the post)
Lower MPG = Higher costs.

Also, if people have to drive 20 miles to get to work then they have to drive 20 miles to get to work. TS in my opinion, they chose to live there.

Cionád

craichoe wrote:

Also, if people have to drive 20 miles to get to work then they have to drive 20 miles to get to work. TS in my opinion, they chose to live there.

So everyone in rural ireland should jump ship to a city? - families might have owned that house / land for generations, some places in the west are miles from anywhere!!

RobAMerc

Well what I meant by trolls is displaying the what seems to be a typically Irish mentality -

a) anything bigger than a 1.4 Corrolla is a waste - why would you need such a big engined car we don't have the roads for it .
b) If you can afford a "big" engined car you can afford to tax it - this is just jealousy as far as I am concerned - just because I can afford to buy it and only use it when the opportunity arises why should I have to pay the same road tax as a guy who uses the road day in day out.
I have already paid more tax than the guy in the 1.4 Corrolla in the VRT.

Mitch Connor

it is pretty crappy that a 2 litre car is considered 'big' to begin with.

Cionád

Tauren wrote:

it is pretty crappy that a 2 litre car is considered 'big' to begin with.

especially if you have a 2Litre diesel Almera!!!

Blazer

Actually in Germany this is how it is.
The tax is built into the price of petrol and diesel so the more you travel the more tax you pay.
It's the fairest way I reckon but I can't see those gob****es bringing it in here.

is_that_so

The problem with adding it to petrol is the cost to users for whom transport is their living. Buses, taxis , transport companies, tradesmen, pizza delivery etc. Seems to me that if your cost base is increased then your prices go up and we all lose out. Car tax may not be perfect but compared to all the other running costs it is not a massive cost.

unkel

It's simple. The polluter pays!

A 1.0l Micra doing 50k per year should pay more than a Merc 500 doing 5k per year. And a Merc 500 doing 50k per year should pay most

The easiest way to achieve this is to abolish motor tax and pay for pollution at the petrol station. It's easily achievable because of our geographic position and the present situation that we have one of the lowest fuel prices in the EU and the only country we have a border with has one of the highest fuel prices in the EU. Top up excise duty by €0.50 per liter please

Ger the man

The government have always shafted the motorist and always will. This country has gone so materialistic especially when it comes to cars and the revenue is sitting back laughing. We all want to change the car as often as possible so we can show off to the neighbours. Most Irish people love to complain and the cost of running a big car has always been a favourite topic.
My mate works as a manager in a Bmw dealership and laughs to himself every time he sells a car, (he drives a '93 1.4 corolla).

unkel

is_that_so wrote:

if your cost base is increased then your prices go up and we all lose out

It can be done in a budget neutral way. So what we pay less in total by not having to pay tax, we pay more in total at the pump. So overal we do not gain or loose a cent. Obviously the low level polluter will benefit and the high level polluter will loose out. Good!

In fact, by dumping an expensive administrative system (motor tax) we can cut the state's wage bill in time, adding to the overall benefit

godtabh

RobAMerc wrote:

Well what I meant by trolls is displaying the what seems to be a typically Irish mentality -

a) anything bigger than a 1.4 Corrolla is a waste - why would you need such a big engined car we don't have the roads for it .
b) If you can afford a "big" engined car you can afford to tax it - this is just jealousy as far as I am concerned - just because I can afford to buy it and only use it when the opportunity arises why should I have to pay the same road tax as a guy who uses the road day in day out.
I have already paid more tax than the guy in the 1.4 Corrolla in the VRT.

How is it jealousy? You've got something I dont because every one wants what you have! You bought it as a luxury not out of necessity so again if you can afford to buy it you can afford to run it and everything that goes with it.

If you dont like a road tax I reckon they should introduce an environmental tax on anything bigger than a 1.2L car. I reckon some where in the order of about €750 for a 2.2L car should do it. Would that make you happy? (Not a serious comment just a suggestion)

VRT isn't road tax. You've probably paid more VAT than the lad in the corolla but where does that come in?

stipey

€67 p/a road tax... but that's because I only have half the number of wheels that you lot have.

Cheap to buy, cheap to tax, cheap to run, fast as you like and can get from Saggart to Baggot St. in 30 in rush hour traffic.


A touch more expensive to insure though! Still I reckon the pros outweigh the cons!

parliament

So what you are proposing is taking something that is a luxury for you (and a necessity for others) and have everybody else subsidize the cost of your leisure pursuits. Regardless if you use the car once year or once a week the roads are there 24/7 and need to be maintained so that when you do decide to head out for a drive the roads are there and in good order.

Alun

Mathew Reilly wrote:

Actually in Germany this is how it is.
The tax is built into the price of petrol and diesel so the more you travel the more tax you pay.

No it isn't. There's tax (or rather duty) on fuel just like here, so in that sense, the more you drive the more you pay, but you still pay an annual car tax, KFZ-Steuer. It is based on an index related to how polluting your car is. This index is printed on your car's logbook, and you can look up that number in a table and see how much you have to pay per 100cm3 of engine capacity. So it's dependant not only on the engine emissions and type (you pay more for a diesel than petrol) but also on engine capacity.

You might have been thinking of France?

Seth Brundle

RobAMerc wrote:

Surely there is enough of us to get a petition together to make road tax based on usage rather than ownership of the car ?
<snip>

There was an election recently and people despite allegations of corruption, financial mismanagement, etc. the electorate decided to put the same people back into power.
Changing the method of annual taxation despite being straight forward enough to implient does not need to be done (in the eyes of the revenue). Anyhow, people are happy paying it - otherwise wouldn't everyone be protesting against it?

unkel wrote:

In fact, by dumping an expensive administrative system (motor tax) we can cut the state's wage bill in time, adding to the overall benefit

You would still need people to act as administrators, etc. The surplus staff will have to find alternative jobs within the civil service as they can't be made redundant.

smash

IMO by imposing the tax on the pump, you're taking away peoples right to luxury.... If I went out and bought a Ferrari 599 tomorrow and I pay 1300 tax, that's fair enough... I have the car that I want and I drive it when I want and if I drive it every day I put about 120 a week into petrol... it costs 7,540

but if I have to pay at the pump it gets a lot more expensive because with fuel prices rising and then an extra gevernment charge we could pay what... about 250 a week in petrol which will cost me 13,000 to have the luxury I want.

It's a joke.... a lot of people can afford to pay a lump sum on tax because they know it's coming. but to have to fork out an extra amount a week on petrol is an unforeseen expense because a: fuel prices change constantly and b: some journies are longer than others so you're really messing up peoples lives.

ToxicPaddy

stipey wrote:

€67 p/a road tax... but that's because I only have half the number of wheels that you lot have.

Cheap to buy, cheap to tax, cheap to run, fast as you like and can get from Saggart to Baggot St. in 30 in rush hour traffic.


A touch more expensive to insure though! Still I reckon the pros outweigh the cons!

I'm in the same boat, well kinda.. have a car, 1.6, but I'd say about 20 miles is put on it Monday - Friday and sometimes its not moved at all. Weekends I use it a fair bit.

Instead I've switched to a moped.. tax is 36 per year, costs about €8 every 3weeks in petrol and into work in 15 mins at anytime during the day, less if its early in the morning..

I've contemplated buying a new car numerous times, something big and with a bit of luxury, however when it comes down to it, I just cant see the point in spending €1500 a year in road tax on something that I'd barely put 10k miles a year on and would do 20mpg if I was lucky in the city!!

Tox

what_car

RobAMerc wrote:

Surely there is enough of us to get a petition together to make road tax based on usage rather than ownership of the car ?

I am sick to the back teeth of paying €750 odd euro for a "big" engined (2.2) which sits in my driveway because I choose to cycle or take the wifes smaller cc'd car to work (As the government suggests I do).

Surely if we petition the Green dude who is looking into reforming the motor tax system here we'll get some response !

Anyone here any interest - I will set petition up if someone who uses their keyboard purty is willing to pen the cover note and theres enough interest here.

if you dont want to pay the road tax sell the car... nobody cares that you dont use it,, its your decision.... looks like you dont need a 2.2 then!??

smash

ToxicPaddy wrote:

I just cant see the point in spending €1500 a year in road tax on something that I'd barely put 10k miles a year on and would do 20mpg if I was lucky in the city!!

the highest you'll pay is 1300

Seth Brundle

steve06 wrote:

IMO by imposing the tax on the pump, you're taking away peoples right to luxury....

You are not taking anything away. You are creating a level playing field for anyone to have a car. If they want to buy something that consumes (and presumably pollutes more) then you pay more in fuel taxes.
In fact the current system removes the right to luxury. I would love to have a few larger engined cars for the weekend but the thought of paying €1300 per annum to drive them once or twice a month puts me off!