Ok...got first AEG, what next?

odonnell

Lads

Quick question. Got my Dboys M4a1, and wondering what i need to get now? I really wuold appreciate a little advice on this...

1) battery - 8.4v? Firefox i recall someone saying..
2) Mags - RSOV, midcaps id prefer
3) Spring?
4) Charger
5) Silicon Oil - is the stuff in Lidl adequate?

Thanks lads... you guys are good to have around for a bit of noob guidance. Did i miss anything?

o1s1n

odonnell wrote:

Lads

Quick question. Got my Dboys M4a1, and wondering what i need to get now? I really wuold appreciate a little advice on this...

1) battery - 8.4v? Firefox i recall someone saying..
2) Mags - RSOV, midcaps id prefer
3) Spring?
4) Charger
5) Silicon Oil - is the stuff in Lidl adequate?

Thanks lads... you guys are good to have around for a bit of noob guidance. Did i miss anything?

Did it not come with a battery and charger? If it did, the only things I can see that you'd need on that list is the silicon Oil and some more mags.

odonnell

Aye mate it came with a charger, but im just referring to advice ive read elsewhere regarding getting a charger which will switch itself off etc etc.

spring - no need?
new battery - not really need it to get it up to >300 fps?

One more question - ahem.... what to do with the oil.... uh...where?

o1s1n

odonnell wrote:

Aye mate it came with a charger, but im just referring to advice ive read elsewhere regarding getting a charger which will switch itself off etc etc.

spring - no need?
new battery - not really need it to get it up to >300 fps?

One more question - ahem.... what to do with the oil.... uh...where?

If it's a clone, I wouldn't go investing in fancy chargers or anything yet. You can do that if you decide to upgrade to a high end model.

A new spring is the only way you'll really get it greater than 300fps. What's it shooting at now? I wouldn't see it as a necessity. Maybe could do this at a later date if you get a new gun and want to use the clone as a project one.

The battery won't make it go any further. A higher powered one though can up the ROF. Again, It wouldnt be up on the *must buy* list.

Put the oil into the mag on top of the bbs and fire them through. That'll give it a good oiling. You probably wont have to do it right away though, as it should be oiled already.

So yeah, at the moment, more mags is your priority.

odonnell

o1s1n wrote:

If it's a clone, I wouldn't go investing in fancy chargers or anything yet. You can do that if you decide to upgrade to a high end model.

A new spring is the only way you'll really get it greater than 300fps. What's it shooting at now? I wouldn't see it as a necessity. Maybe could do this at a later date if you get a new gun and want to use the clone as a project one.

The battery won't make it go any further. A higher powered one though can up the ROF. Again, It wouldnt be up on the *must buy* list.

Put the oil into the mag on top of the bbs and fire them through. That'll give it a good oiling. You probably wont have to do it right away though, as it should be oiled already.

So yeah, at the moment, more mags is your priority.

Its firing around 285 the now. Im happy enough with that like, but lack the experience to know if i should aim for higher....if theres much need.

Cheers for the info bud Im happy with the rifle out of the box actually, really happy so.. mags it is!

o1s1n

Well to give you a comparison.

My Marui Famas (actually now hiveminds marui famas) chronoed at 264. Which I found more than adequate for getting lots and lots of hits.

So 285 is fine!

N.O.I.P.

I'd say stick with it as is, sometimes there seems to be an "OH God its only firing at 327.9999fps" attitude here . None of my rifles are upgraded and I don't feel the need to upgrade them either

odonnell

cheers lads... im happier now

you guys might underestimate how good a source this is for noobs by the way. its really handy - sure there was a lad wondering how to fit the sling hook to his m4 the other night, someone wondering about loose mags, reviews etc etc etc

brill.

N.O.I.P.

Aw Schucks now you've gone and embarrassed me

odonnell

oh dont worry mate ill not be offering hugs and kisses anytime soon like.

o1s1n

N.O.I.P. wrote:

I'd say stick with it as is, sometimes there seems to be an "OH God its only firing at 327.9999fps" attitude here . None of my rifles are upgraded and I don't feel the need to upgrade them either

He speaks the truth.

ED E

Neither of my guns(CA AUGA1, DE UMP) have been upgraded with a new spring or will gain much fom it as they are very close to the limit. At a later time a tight bore barell is an option. 9.6V batteries will give you a higher rate of fire but may cause problems depending on the gun.

iceage

I recieved D boys m4 a1 the other day from www.eirsoft.ie boy over the moon with it so far, put roughly 200 bb's through it last night in semi, and full auto in bursts or between 4 and ten round bursts, have to say I was very impressed. Only thing I found was a sloppy selector to full auto but what the heck! its not a Tm so there!

Still haven't flattened the batt(one that came in the box) and it gives a firly decent rof, so no plans as yet to upgrage batt.

One thing I would suggest maybe is mid cap mags.. all this windin an rattling, oh and by the way do clean your barrel, mine was mankey! Thanks o1s1n for the tip on silicone into the mag on top of bb's, keeps it oiled yes. I'd also recommend a proper clean down after use, its all towards keeping them in tiptop condition for when you really need them:D

o1s1n

Actually you're right with giving the barrel a clean. I've heard some of them can be fairly manky.

CrazyRabbit

With regards to the spring, I have a G3 SG1 that fires at 325fps and a AK Beta that fires at 265fps. In outdoor games, I personally do notice a difference between them. It's not huge....maybe an extra range of 10-15 feet, but it can help in some situations. Most of the time though, range is not really an issue and accuracy is more important (and to a lesser extent the rate of fire). Your skill is always going to be the #1 factor. I'd suggest keeping your current AEG at it's stock power, and get a 1 joule AEG for your 2nd purchase.

For CQB games I switch to the AK as it's less painfull when I hit people. For outdoors I exclusively use the G3 now.

davvowl

dont ever, ever put a battery higher than 8.4V in a clone. (chinese made aeg that is.)
else you gonna end up with sawed-off gears and/of piston
trust me on that.

and 285 fps is really enough you know.. if you want some more fps and accuracy, get a precision barrel instead

N.O.I.P.

davvowl wrote:

dont ever, ever put a battery higher than 8.4V in a clone. (chinese made aeg that is.)
else you gonna end up with sawed-off gears and/of piston
trust me on that.

and 285 fps is really enough you know.. if you want some more fps and accuracy, get a precision barrel instead

Quoted for truth!!!!!!!

davvowl

N.O.I.P. wrote:

Quoted for truth!!!!!!!

go sleep already, its half past 3.

N.O.I.P.

davvowl wrote:

go sleep already, its half past 3.

Just got in had to check the boards

bullets

odonnell wrote:

Lads

Quick question. Got my Dboys M4a1, and wondering what i need to get now? I really wuold appreciate a little advice on this...

Accessories for me first as I can always worry bout the inside later.

I want a full metal conversion Kit for mine to change the
handguard to a metal one. (Dboys sell one)

Also want a Grenade Launcher that will fire Nerf/Rubber Grenades
as well as BB showers like a shot gun style.

Also a tubed and non tubed red-dot sight.

~B

davvowl

one question pops into my mind...
if you are willing to spend so much on accessories, why did you get a clone and not serious sh1t instead ?
that would have spared you getting a full metal conversion kit...

as for grenade launcher, just get a m203 from G&P
for grenade shells, go for the madbull ones only. others may be cheaper, but for a good reason. get prepares for leaks. (better spend some more bucks into something that actually works)
sad thing is... the clone might not me strong enough to hold it (ive seen a clone m4 break in half due to the weight of a 203 and an-peq)

edit: bout rubber nades : the only way to propel those are to load a m203 grenade shell with gas but no bb's, and put a piece of rubber or closed cell foam in front of it. either you find some, or make em yourself (most probably cheaper)

ambro25

davvowl wrote:

one question pops into my mind...
if you are willing to spend so much on accessories, why did you get a clone and not serious sh1t instead ?
that would have spared you getting a full metal conversion kit...

Oh noes, not another 'brand whore'... :rolleyes:

Do you realise they've all bought the DBoys full metal M4A1?

bullets

davvowl wrote:

one question pops into my mind...
if you are willing to spend so much on accessories, why did you get a clone and not serious sh1t instead ?
that would have spared you getting a full metal conversion kit...

What Kinda money we talking bout when you
say serious sh1t ?

Bought a clone cos it was cheap and convenient.
And it had a metal not abs body.
Have no problems buying some serious sh1t just
dont know enough about them yet to know if they
warrent the extra cash when I could get several clones
that may look just as good. I have not skirmished yet
so at the moment I am into collecting them rather than
worrying about hi-performance expensive stuff
so I am not worried about ROF or internal upgrades.

I would like a high end M4 with a shell ejecting feature
not sure if they are available here though or if
their operation caused them to go over 1 joule or not.

Do the hi-end M4's have metal handguards? A lot of the time when looking
at them on online shops I cant tell from the descriptions.

~B

davvowl

yes you may call me a brand whore :rolleyes:
i've seen quite many clones shred pistons and/or gears into tiny pieces, not to mention fragile plastic parts, malfunctioning hop-up, low quality aluminium body that breaks in half under the weight of just an m203...

so in the end you buy another one and the total is the cost of a more or less 'high-end' thing


@bullets : shell ejecting feature only exists on a few shotguns and on a few sniper rifles.

all hi-end m4's have metal handguards, thats maybe why they dont bother saying it in the descriptions

i understand you're beginning with the sport and want to try things out first, but if i were you i wouldnt chose a clone as base for such a 'serious gun' project

just my 2 cents

CrazyRabbit

IMHO all AEG's, clones are not, are prone to breaking at anytime. I've seen clones break at HRTA after a few weeks use, and I've seen my own TM AK Beta and TM G18c break.

I gave TM another chance by buying a G3-SG1, but if it breaks anytime soon I'll become a big supporter of clones to be honest.

Probably the best thing to do when you get any AEG, is to upgrade the gearbox with strong metal parts and get rid of the nylon/plastic/die-cast parts.

Fallschirmjager

oh gawd, not another clone versus tm arguement...

Fallschirmjager

CrazyRabbit wrote:

IMHO all AEG's, clones are not, are prone to breaking at anytime. I've seen clones break at HRTA after a few weeks use, and I've seen my own TM AK Beta and TM G18c break.

I gave TM another chance by buying a G3-SG1, but if it breaks anytime soon I'll become a big supporter of clones to be honest.

Probably the best thing to do when you get any AEG, is to upgrade the gearbox with strong metal parts and get rid of the nylon/plastic/die-cast parts.

bravo Crazy.......

everything breaks...get a screwdriver, get the parts and fix it...

buy or dont buy, make a choice and live with it...

ED E

Even if a clone only lasts half the time a tm does its still worth it as they are half the price! Same with CA cept a third of the time and price:D

ambro25

davvowl wrote:

low quality aluminium body that breaks in half under the weight of just an m203...

That would be... as opposed to shatter into a million tiny pieces when you drop the plastic one?

TBH, this whole cheap-vs-hi end thing is (IMHO) all to do with either:
_ collectionitis ("accurate markings matter most"),
_ brand captivity (been in the sport a long time, TM rulz), or
_ after-purchase psychology ("it's hi-end so it won't go wrong. My, what a fiiine purchase that was")

In this day and age, certainly not objectivity.

On the question of "spending on accessories" - all accessories purchased can usually be retrofitted to branded stuff as and when players 'upgrade' to a CA/TM/etc. Batteries, chargers, mags, red dots, mock silencers, etc, etc. - makes no difference if your first AEG is a clone or not. So, it really is a question of:

(i) budget - don't forget airsoft is very new still, and most 'new' posters in here still have to get a sh1tload of stuff beside an AEG to get on par for a "good" first or second HRTA outing (boots, cammo, spare mags, etc.)

(ii) preference - whether you prefer trick out a (cheap) AEG first, or prefer a branded (CA/TM/etc.) AEG which you then slowly trick out (ref. back to (i) budget)

(iii) attitude to ACM - the 'clones are nasty' attitude is thankfully slowly dying of death, now that the likes of JG, DBoys and A&K are consistently upping their quality.

What's the best alternative, for a hobby? €250 on a hi-quality plastic AEG with fully upgreadable and serviceable innards, or €100 on a med-to-hi-quality metal AEG with fully upgreadable and serviceable innards?

So what if TM, as a business, is gonna be eaten alive by the half-price ACM m'facturers? As and when CN quality becomes truly comparable (and it's not that far off, for the very best CN stuff), why the need for snobbery? [and it looks like TM's branching out into Z-scale train models, so they must know the writing's on the wall...]

davvowl wrote:

all hi-end m4's have metal handguards, thats maybe why they dont bother saying it in the descriptions

I believe, when bullets refers to a "metal handguard", that he means a RIS (or RAS) front end. Not all hi-end M4 have metal handguards, it depends on the particular flavour of M4. Most CQB-style do, M733/M16/'standard' M4A1 variants usually don't. RSOV sells the DBoys RIS metal handguard (same as found on CASV/CQB variants).

Fiach Dubh

CrazyRabbit wrote:

IMHO all AEG's, clones are not, are prone to breaking at anytime. I've seen clones break at HRTA after a few weeks use, and I've seen my own TM AK Beta and TM G18c break.

I gave TM another chance by buying a G3-SG1, but if it breaks anytime soon I'll become a big supporter of clones to be honest.

Probably the best thing to do when you get any AEG, is to upgrade the gearbox with strong metal parts and get rid of the nylon/plastic/die-cast parts.

Exactly! My VFC AK74 needed a new motor by it's second skirmish and that AEG cost me nearly 500 Euro to import. Any thing can break at any time and getting a clone is a nice cheap way to play a few games and find out if you want to stick with the sport or not.

davvowl

about handguards : what i meant is that all RIS/RAS are in metal (never seen any plastic ris before anyway)
when its not a ris/ras, its in plastic (the star ones might be injected nylon fibre, not sure about this.)

no brand is always good, some aeg's in each brand may be good or bad.
well, some brands have more bad ones than good ones...
there are a few very good clone brands, like cyma, which does very fine ak's
and there are some more expensive brands like classic army, which sometimes completely mess up some products. (only god knows how many pistons i changed on CA guns.)

when you want to get a gun you shouldnt search for a brand but for a model, and then see what brand does fine ones and compare prices.

its all a matter of budget and personal preference
im planning on getting an ak74 sometime, and im pretty sure ill get a cyma

Fiach Dubh

The CYMA AK74 is rock solid, I have 3 of them

davvowl

yeah, you're never safe from a malfunctioning part, however, don't you think the finishing of your 74 is worth the 500 euro ?

but... what are you doing with so many ak's o_O

Fiach Dubh

Well one of them is now an RPK74, another is a short barrel Carbine using a TM beta frontend and the last one is half way to being an AKM

davvowl

whoa, cool

ok, now post a family picture of those

Fiach Dubh

I will be soon, just have to finish up a few little bits and pieces on them first. Probably be next week before I can get around to it though

o1s1n

Oh god. High end vs clones. I want to run away, but I can't. So here we go...again...

Every AEG will break down at some point. They're mechanical parts. Won't last forever. The main difference is at what point will it actually break down.
Higher end AEGs will statistically last longer than a clone. Not all will. You'll have some freak incidents. But in most cases it will be that way. Especially a TM. When their internals are left stock they can (almost) last forever.

There's also more to it than stuff breaking down. There's things like feeding issues. A higher end model will feed better than a clone. (Again, in most cases)

Higher end AEGs will have a higher rate of fire.

Higher end AEGs will be more consistently accurate with every shot.

You're paying for the build materials and finish too. So it's not simply a performance issue. Just compare the plastics on a clone to the nylon used on a Star and you'll see what I mean. Same with the metals. The receiver on my FAL feels it could withstand an atomic blast.

I think a lot of people are making mistakes by comparing clones to Tokyo Marui. Especially some of the earlier made Maruis which are still popular. I.E the FAMAS and G3 SG1. Marui have great internals, but there are better high end exteriors out there. (There's the odd exception, two I can think of being the TM M14 and the TM m733. )
Crazyrabbit, I know for example you have two Maruis. If you really want to do a comparison between clones and high end, you'll need to compare it to something like VFC. The finish on the Marui Beta and G3 don't come anywhere close.

Clones are good, they work for some people, but not for others. I will more than likely buy clone versions of AEGs which I want but don't want to pay high end money for. But everyone deserves at least ONE high end. They just feel so...special

o1s1n

davvowl wrote:

when you want to get a gun you shouldnt search for a brand but for a model, and then see what brand does fine ones and compare prices.

Only saw that now. You should listen to this guy. He knows what he's talking about. From what I gather, he's been playing for quite some time in France. And taking AEGs apart too. Most of us here have only been at this a year max. So we're all still more or less newbs. Don't forget that!

bullets

davvowl wrote:

@bullets : shell ejecting feature only exists on a few shotguns and on a few sniper rifles.

I have seen M4's/M15's and some WWII Airsofts that have an ejecting
shell feature on them on you tube see here:

On one of the videos below it looks as though what
is being used is a standard red plastic cap found in toy cap gun revolvers.

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=njiVrbG8s74
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=M2qfQzmFJMI
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=rr5SeiGQe9s
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=OChLA5oKDcc
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=AzBwpAWEKjY

I dont know if they are pure electric or if
they use a small tiny charge or fire powder
like the ones on the following sites:

http://vietnamwar-guns.com/index.htm
http://www.japanairsoftguns.com/stor...=category&id=8
http://www.wwiiguns.com/index.php

If anyone here knows if both types are legal or know be
sure and let us know. some of them are pretty cool looking.

~B

davvowl

oh those.
well w,t,f.
by just looking at the first video i'd say this thing is at least 3 joules

not to mention all the shells are gonna cost you damn much

ambro25

davvowl, you have got one of these Noveske KX-3 'amplifying' flash-hiders don't you? (from your gear photos in the pics thread). Are they worth it? Can't find any objective reviews of those anywhere

davvowl

yeah thats what i got
i think the brand is Proud
its really heavy, great finishing and markings, and the paint also is very resistant : i play 'hard' and theres still no scratch on it
just make sure you get the right threading when you get one because it comes in both cw and ccw

odonnell

ok

Thanks for all the replies lads...

Amended Shopping list:

Spare Battery (8.4v) - whats the difference between 1100mah and 1500mah? whats a mah? isnt that the opposite of a dah?
Mid Cap Mags
Batt Discharger
Goggles (cos i cant stand facemasks)

Camo - already been in a tug of war with my camo, as the wrong size was either sent or the size i selected was curiously 5 sizes to small or too large. Any pointers on shops where i can walk-in would be grand...here or up north, either or.

CrazyRabbit

odonnell wrote:

ok

Thanks for all the replies lads...

Amended Shopping list:

Spare Battery (8.4v) - whats the difference between 1100mah and 1500mah? whats a mah? isnt that the opposite of a dah?
Mid Cap Mags
Batt Discharger
Goggles (cos i cant stand facemasks)

Camo - already been in a tug of war with my camo, as the wrong size was either sent or the size i selected was curiously 5 sizes to small or too large. Any pointers on shops where i can walk-in would be grand...here or up north, either or.

Short answer.....the 1500mah battery holds more charge and thus lasts longer.

'mah' is a measure of how much charge the battery can hold.

odonnell

cheers man....

ZygOte

o1s1n wrote:

Well to give you a comparison.

My Marui Famas (actually now hiveminds marui famas) chronoed at 264. Which I found more than adequate for getting lots and lots of hits.

So 285 is fine!

sorry if this is off the topic a little but how are you chrono'ing you guns, is there an easy way to do this or is some gadgetry required ?

tonyj_mc

gadgetry required, you can buy a cheap one from RSOV or there is one at HRTA, all AEGS need to be chroned before use

o1s1n

ZygOte wrote:

sorry if this is off the topic a little but how are you chrono'ing you guns, is there an easy way to do this or is some gadgetry required ?

HRTA have a chronograph. It's good practice to check any new AEGs before a game to make sure they're all under the joule.

CrazyRabbit

ZygOte wrote:

sorry if this is off the topic a little but how are you chrono'ing you guns, is there an easy way to do this or is some gadgetry required ?

I am also a human chronograph. Shoot me from exactly 10 feet distance.

If I yell and shoot back, emptying a 500 round magazine into you, then it's over 1 joule.

If I just yell, but don't feel an overwhelming compulsion to shoot back, then it's 1 joule on the nose.

If I say "OK, shoot me now", 5 seconds after you've shot me, then you need to upgrade the power of your AEG since I didn't feel a thing.

davvowl

your nickname suits you well, you want to be shot like a rabbit - and you're plain crazy.