Martin Jol to go?

therecklessone

Spanish media running with story that representatives of Spurs met Sevilla coach Juande Ramos during the week with a view to Ramos replacing Martin Jol at Spurs asap.

http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/futbol/1a_division/sevilla/es/desarrollo/1027193.html

There's a video on that link showing pictures of Paul Kelmsley (board member at Spurs) with Ramos in Spain.

Apparently the back pages will be full of this story in the morning.

I'm off to bed, too tired to say any more. Just wanted to post the news, I'll comment more tomorrow.

DSB

Wow this seems a tad harsh.

leninbenjamin

funny enough me oul fellah said before the start of the season he though Jol would be a good bet to go first.

i must say i do think it's time for spurs to try a new manager, they've got some great talent but Jol doesn't seem to be able to make a great team out of them, and he lacks ambition too, he seems happy enough as long as they are in the top half of the table. It always seemed obvious to me that if Spurs are to progress they need to lose Jol, i think he's taken them as far as he can. they should have done it in the close season though, i think it's a bit ridiculous if they were to get rid of him now.

Third_Echelon

A bit harsh to get rid of him... He got them to 5th last season and turned them into a dangerous enough team.

They've had a bad start, but they are only 3 games into the season. A bit harsh if he gets the chop i think... Football has gone mad!

leninbenjamin

Third_Echelon wrote:

A bit harsh to get rid of him... He got them to 5th last season and turned them into a dangerous enough team.

They've had a bad start, but they are only 3 games into the season. A bit harsh if he gets the chop i think... Football has gone mad!

yeah but for all the investment put into them they should really be getting 5th each year. and yeah it is nuts to axe after three games, but i've had my opinions on Jol for a while now...

zAbbo

Juande Ramos is a top class coach, Spurs have invested a lot of money in players over the past few years, and being 'close' to the top 4 might not be good enough.

Ramos would be the man though, he certainly has the pedigree.

therecklessone

These rumours need to be seen in context, this has not been prompted by two bad results against Sunderland and Everton.

Stories of disquiet at board level about Jol's ability have been around for over a year, coming to a head last March when allegedly Martin was instructed by Daniel Levy to play Berbatov away to Chelsea in the Cup (Jol had planned on resting him, and eventually took both him and Aaron Lennon off at 3-1)

I've been wary of believing the rumours because I felt that certain agendas were being pursued through the media and also through supporters networks, to undermine Martin Jol and by extension Daniel Levy. I believe that certain senior members of the hierarchy at Spurs want to buy out ENIC and take control themselves, one of those people is Paul Kelmsley the man pictured meeting Ramos this week. I wonder was Kemlsley there as an offical of Spurs or of his own accord? I know he has contacts who post on Spurs message boards, and I take what they say with a pinch of salt...

I don't have a problem with Spurs deciding Martin Jol is not the man to take the club to a higher level, I do have a problem with the timing of this (if true). Jol should have been replaced during the Summer if necessary, not 3 games into the season. I'd like Jol to get at least another year, I like the man and think he has done a great job for Spurs in getting us to the verge of the top 4. That said, I'd liked Ranieri at Chelsea but Mourinho came in and they won two back to back titles...

What saddens me is the power play in the Tottenham board room, and the fact that Martin Jol might be a casualty of that not to improve the team's chances but to allow one group gain the upper hand. If my suspicion is proved correct, the words of Keith Burkinshaw seem apt: "There used to be a football club over there"

PHB

I think it'd be stupid to replace him now. Realistically there is little danger of them not getting a UEFA Cup spot, and there's no way Ramos could get them CL football without bringing in some of his own players, so there's no real point in it. Maybe next summer

Andrew 83

I'd be disgusted if we sack him at the moment.

ro2

Martin Jol: 3 points from 3 games.
Alex Ferguson: 2 points from 3 games.

I think so!

Vokes

Spurs chiefs 'lose faith in Jol'

Tottenham boss Martin Jol's job remains under threat because he has lost the confidence of several top officials at the club, BBC Sport understands.

Sevilla coach Juande Ramos is in line to replace Jol, although the Spaniard's agent has denied links with Spurs.

BBC Radio 5live football correspondent Jonathan Legard says some officials are not sure Jol can deliver regular top-four Premier League finishes.

Spurs lost their first two matches this season but beat Derby 4-0 on Saturday.

On Monday, Ramos' agent Alvaro Torres denied there had been any talks with Tottenham, despite Spanish press reports claiming that the 52-year-old coach met with Spurs officials at the weekend.

Both clubs said Ramos' appearance at a Spanish hotel was a private matter and Torres said the meeting was with a friend and had "nothing to do with football".

Jol came under pressure after the two losses - to Sunderland and Everton - in the first four days of the season following a £40m summer outlay on players.

One bookmaker suspended betting on Jol's departure on Friday but Spurs have insisted they are not negotiating for a new manager.

Some fans also believe it is too soon to make a decision on Jol's future after only three Premier League matches.

Daniel Wynne of the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust confirmed: "It's far too early to see how the season will go.

"Jol has taken us to fifth twice, which is better than any other manager, and has been backed in the summer with his signings."

Ramos has a contract with Sevilla until 2008 and was linked with the vacant post at Manchester City before Sven-Goran Eriksson was appointed at Eastlands.

Source: Beeb

I think they're jumping the gun here. He should have this season to prove he can get that 4th spot.

jobonar

they have had a bad start but they showed what they can do on saturday against Derby. no manager deserves the sack after 3 games. give the man a chance

dubmick

Spurs execs are being very harsh if that article is true

whatawaster

Very very harsh if he is sacked. It is beyond belief that they allegedly had doubts about him for the last year and still gave him so much money to spend.
What if the new manager comes in and immediately doesn't want Bale, Bent or Kaboul? Or will he even have that choice?

gosplan

Insane, simply insane.

Clearly it has very little to do with footballing reasons. If you're going to sack a manager after two losses and a win then you may as well sack him during the summer. Besides, they're still higher then Man U.

If beating Arsenal was the target for fourth then they're only one point behind with a game more played.

Something is wrong upstairs at Spurs.

gucci

Ramos is a very experienced and good manager, but why the heck did they let Jol spend whatever amount he did during the summer if they were not confident in him!!?? Surely get a new man in then and let him have time to buy who HE wants.
Darn it, i have 10quid on Southgate to be first man to go

Hobart

Looks like he is gone tbh.

Jazzy

yeah, i deffo cant see him lasting, i dont think he will be spurs manager by this time next week. its just a feeling, i hope im wrong tho as i like him

The Rooster

Jol did not spend any money during the summer. He is not responsible for transfers. He is only asked his opinion. He does not have the final say in what players come and go, he plays no part in negotiating transfer fees or players contracts.
- according to the 4 journalists on the Sunday Supplement on Sky Sports last weekend

Villain

All the reports this morning seem to think he is gone before the weekend and there is also reports that spurs are in for Riquelme!

PHB

The real question is whether this is a transfer for Ramos or a transfer for Jol. I like Jol, I'd be sad to see him go, but Ramos has an incredibly impressive track record

Mitch Connor

PHB wrote:

The real question is whether this is a transfer for Ramos or a transfer for Jol. I like Jol, I'd be sad to see him go, but Ramos has an incredibly impressive track record

how much of that is on the back of seville as a club though?

I'm not disputing he is a good tactician, or a good man manager, but he has some great people working behind the scenes at Seville, especially the sporting director.

gucci

The Rooster wrote:

Jol did not spend any money during the summer. He is not responsible for transfers. He is only asked his opinion. He does not have the final say in what players come and go, he plays no part in negotiating transfer fees or players contracts.
- according to the 4 journalists on the Sunday Supplement on Sky Sports last weekend

then hes as well go, he is not responsible for transfers coming in...but sure as hell he will be responsible for then flopping/successful

Bubs101

Why would Ramos want to go. He's got Champions League football this year and a better squad then spurs

sikes

Ramos doesn't have an incredible track record. Its not a giltering CV by any stretch of the imagination.

aidan24326

Bubs101 wrote:

Why would Ramos want to go. He's got Champions League football this year and a better squad then spurs

True. Leaving Sevilla for Spurs now would be only a sideways move at best. Unless they were offering him a big pay rise. Sevilla have moved quickly to dismiss the rumours and insist he's going nowhere. Would be very harsh on Jol to sack him now. Make no sense. Give him this season anyway. But I'd agree that with the money Tottenham have spent the directors are going to be expecting success sooner rather than later. Champions league qualification required.

Peyton Manning

So maybe its not just the bad start to the season that has him facing the sack...

---

Mark Irwin
August 21, 2007

MARTIN JOL is on the brink of the axe at Spurs after an amazing row over Dimitar Berbatov.

Boss Jol stunned club chairman Daniel Levy last week by wanting to sell his star striker.

And it was Jol’s astonishing outburst which prompted Levy to sound out Seville coach Juande Ramos about taking over at White Hart Lane.

SunSport can reveal a number of Spurs players have expressed their dismay over Jol’s team selections and tactics, especially away from home.

Many believe the Dutchman has got certain favourites who are chosen to the detriment of the team.

Matters came to a head when Jol hauled off last season’s 23-goal top scorer Berbatov during the 1-0 opening-day defeat at Sunderland.

Berbatov reacted angrily to the decision, prompting Jol to seek a meeting with Levy on the following Monday to demand the Bulgarian hitman’s sale.

Jol argued Berbatov, a £10.9million signing from Bayer Leverkusen last year, was not a team player and had to go.

But Levy, who has already rejected a bid from Manchester United for the 26-year-old player, insisted that Berbatov is staying.

Levy now seems convinced changes have to be made.

Friday’s meeting between Ramos’ agent Alvaro Torres, Spurs vice-chairman Paul Kemsley and club secretary John Alexander was held with Levy’s full backing.

And Spurs are sure Ramos will agree to move following hours of detailed discussions at Seville’s King Alfonso Hotel.

Levy has made it clear that he wants a coach who will uphold Tottenham’s tradition of attacking, entertaining football.

And Ramos fits that bill after leading his side to two UEFA Cup triumphs.

More importantly, he has also steered Seville into the Champions League, a feat which has eluded Jol during his three years in charge.

The Spurs board have consistently backed the Dutchman in the transfer market — he has spent £106m on players.

Yet they are no longer certain he is the right man for the job.

Ramos has made it clear he wants to lead Seville into their European Super Cup clash against AC Milan a week on Friday.

But he could join before then if Jol goes after showdown talks with Levy this week.

Jol still has two years on his £25,000-a-week contract and has no intention of resigning, despite the board’s loss of faith.

Ramos is on a 12-month rolling agreement worth £1m at Seville.

But Spurs will not baulk at striking a quick compensation deal to get their man in place as quickly as possible.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2...380670,00.html

PHB

That's be nuts if true. Selling Berbatov would be a very odd decesion, that said, he hasn't been great this year so far.

Peyton Manning

Not just the Sun reporting it either, here's a similar article from the Spurs forum:


Article by Paul Mortimer

Reports are circulating that Tottenham Hotspur manager, Martin Jol, has asked for top goal scorer and fans favourite, Dimitar Berbatov, to be sold.

This astonishing news has rocked a lot of Spurs fans as the club seems to be in turmoil with just three games gone into the new season.

Spurs chairman, Daniel Levy, refused the sale of Berbatov, which has now led to large unrest between the manager and chairman.

Many pundits are claiming that this is the reason why Jol probably has until the end of the week before being replaced. I on the other hand, believe that Martin may be replaced for other reasons.

Manchester United boss, Alex Ferguson, asked his chairman to sell England international, David Beckham after the two clashed. Ferguson also sanctioned the sale of Van Nistelrooy, a player whom in their current predicament would have come in handy.

It is becoming quite apparent that Tottenham Hotspur Director of Football, Damien Comolli, is largely behind the boards decision to oust Jol from his position and bring in Sevilla's manager, Juande Ramos.

Maybe Comolli has had a word with the board after the rumours of Jol's training methods came to light. Comolli's has an influential standing with the board. If the Frenchman has advised that Jol should be replaced, several board members such as vice-charmain Kemsley, would have been alerted, in turn, persuading Levy to begin a search for a manager that would take over from Jol.

Jol is apparently unhappy at the way Berbatov has been behaving since being substituted in the Sunderland game.

LostinBlanch

Archimedes wrote:

Not just the Sun reporting it either, here's a similar article from the Spurs forum:


Article by Paul Mortimer

Reports are circulating that Tottenham Hotspur manager, Martin Jol, has asked for top goal scorer and fans favourite, Dimitar Berbatov, to be sold.

This astonishing news has rocked a lot of Spurs fans as the club seems to be in turmoil with just three games gone into the new season.

Spurs chairman, Daniel Levy, refused the sale of Berbatov, which has now led to large unrest between the manager and chairman.

Many pundits are claiming that this is the reason why Jol probably has until the end of the week before being replaced. I on the other hand, believe that Martin may be replaced for other reasons.

Manchester United boss, Alex Ferguson, asked his chairman to sell England international, David Beckham after the two clashed. Ferguson also sanctioned the sale of Van Nistelrooy, a player whom in their current predicament would have come in handy.

It is becoming quite apparent that Tottenham Hotspur Director of Football, Damien Comolli, is largely behind the boards decision to oust Jol from his position and bring in Sevilla's manager, Juande Ramos.

Maybe Comolli has had a word with the board after the rumours of Jol's training methods came to light. Comolli's has an influential standing with the board. If the Frenchman has advised that Jol should be replaced, several board members such as vice-charmain Kemsley, would have been alerted, in turn, persuading Levy to begin a search for a manager that would take over from Jol.

Martin Hunter said as much on Newstalk this morning. Comolli is the boards man, so disagreeing with Comolli is in effect disagreeing with the board. He also said something about the board not understanding exactly why there is such a high turnover of players, (could it be they're implying that someone is benefitting from such a high turnover)?

He also said that the way Jol is briefing the media suggests that he feels he is on his way out also.

Ardent

Always felt Jol underachieved the last couple of seasons with the players at his disposal. I can understand him getting the sack but the timing is bizarre - it should have been done in the close season.

iloveireland

His true managerial skills where shown against Everton last week. Robbie keane playing right midfield in a very important match? that is just terrible management. Putting a striker right wing instead of a midfielder is bad enough but Robbie Keane has been playing on the left side of the pitch throughout his tottenham career and if Routlege was fit enough to play then i just dont know. Did they buy a left midfielder this year? Malbranque is certainly not a left midfielder. Lee wouldnt even get on the Arsenal reserves. He is a brutal manager.

But i hope he stays:D

Go on the gunners!

Royale with Cheese

iloveireland wrote:

His true managerial skills where shown against Everton last week. Robbie keane playing right midfield in a very important match? that is just terrible management. Putting a striker right wing instead of a midfielder is bad enough but Robbie Keane has been playing on the left side of the pitch throughout his tottenham career and if Routlege was fit enough to play then i just dont know. Did they buy a left midfielder this year? Malbranque is certainly not a left midfielder. Lee wouldnt even get on the Arsenal reserves. He is a brutal manager.

But i hope he stays:D

Go on the gunners!

I wholeheartedly agree

therecklessone

Archimedes wrote:

So maybe its not just the bad start to the season that has him facing the sack...

Did anyone read my original post? Beware who is leaking what to the press...

Berbatov dismisses Jol row claims

Tottenham striker Dimitar Berbatov has no problem with Martin Jol, despite some club officials appearing to lose confidence in the under-fire coach.

It had been claimed that Jol wanted to sell Berbatov, who reacted angrily after being substituted at Sunderland.

But Berbatov's agent Emil Dantchev told BBC Sport: "I can tell you for sure that there is not a problem."

Who is the source of all these rumours undermining Jol's position at Spurs, and what is their agenda?

therecklessone

iloveireland wrote:

Did they buy a left midfielder this year?

Who, Martin Jol or the DOF Damian Comolli? You are aware that Comolli does the buying at Spurs, yeah?

therecklessone

LostinBlanch wrote:

He also said something about the board not understanding exactly why there is such a high turnover of players, (could it be they're implying that someone is benefitting from such a high turnover)?

Absolutely not. No suggestions of impropriety (other than rumours Jol spoke to both Ajax and Newcastle while at Spurs) at all.

therecklessone

Latest rumours on Spurs message boards:

Ramos had agreed to join Spurs, he has now gone back on that and told Sevilla he will see out his contract, leaving Daniel Levy with an embarrassing climb down, having to deny we were ever in for Ramos and that Jol has the support of the board (though qualified by the proviso that Jol must push for CL qualification)

Bunch of clowns.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA01pqHyMVQ

iloveireland

therecklessone wrote:

Who, Martin Jol or the DOF Damian Comolli? You are aware that Comolli does the buying at Spurs, yeah?

Does Jol have absolutly no say in the transfers?

therecklessone

iloveireland wrote:

Does Jol have absolutly no say in the transfers?

Nobody knows for certain, the available info suggests Jol's job is to coach the players bought for him by the DOF.

Jol is rumoured to have wanted Martin Petrov who now plays for Man City.

iloveireland

Ok but the He still makes terrible tactical decisions. Robbie Keane being the only one i can remember at the moment but i noticed alot last year. I am sure there is a left winger that could be worth a shot from the youths. Jol doesnt seem to call up much youth players. And in terms of last year You cant play away from home and have Lee left back, right footer (i think) and a complete whimp (i know), and have the likes of Malbranque left wing.

PHB

I'm sorry, that's just a silly point. Granted it didn't work out, but how many times have I seen Rooney play on the left or right wing? There are a lot more youth players United have to use, but Fergie rather uses Rooney there instead, or Giggs up front. It doesn't make him a bad manager.

iloveireland

PHB wrote:

I'm sorry, that's just a silly point. Granted it didn't work out, but how many times have I seen Rooney play on the left or right wing? There are a lot more youth players United have to use, but Fergie rather uses Rooney there instead, or Giggs up front. It doesn't make him a bad manager.

Yes he does but only when he is forced too. Rooney wouldnt play left wing if Giggs was available. We are talking about jols starting line up here.

If teves, Rooney and Saha are available then you wont see Giggs up front. Jol had Routledge on the bench and he still played Robbie Keane right wing.

PHB

Fergie has had players like Richardson or Eagles or even Park availible and still played Rooney on the wing.

iloveireland

PHB wrote:

Fergie has had players like Richardson or Eagles or even Park availible and still played Rooney on the wing.

Ye but would you play Keane instead of Routledge?

therecklessone

iloveireland wrote:

Ok but the He still makes terrible tactical decisions. Robbie Keane being the only one i can remember at the moment but i noticed alot last year. I am sure there is a left winger that could be worth a shot from the youths. Jol doesnt seem to call up much youth players. And in terms of last year You cant play away from home and have Lee left back, right footer (i think) and a complete whimp (i know), and have the likes of Malbranque left wing.

I don't think you know too much about the youth team set up at Spurs in fairness, assuming there's a decent left winger in the stiffs is a bit of a jump.

Don't see what your problem is with Lee, he's solid enough and a lot more dependable than Stalteri or Gardner for example. He was also the only fit left back at the club for much of last season (despite his right foot, that is his position) while Benoit Assou Ekotto was injured.

I wouldn't have played Keane right midfield against Everton (and lets be clear, he only did it against Everton) but then Routledge hardly set the world alight against a poor Derby side on Saturday. He'd not started a game for Spurs in two years previous to Saturday, surely that tells you something? Just as an aside, Keane had no problem playing left midfield against Chelsea last November when we won 2-1 at the Lane, and he drops deep into midfield when played up front anyway.

iloveireland

therecklessone wrote:

I don't think you know too much about the youth team set up at Spurs in fairness, assuming there's a decent left winger in the stiffs is a bit of a jump.

Don't see what your problem is with Lee, he's solid enough and a lot more dependable than Stalteri or Gardner for example. He was also the only fit left back at the club for much of last season (despite his right foot, that is his position) while Benoit Assou Ekotto was injured.

I wouldn't have played Keane right midfield against Everton (and lets be clear, he only did it against Everton) but then Routledge hardly set the world alight against a poor Derby side on Saturday. He'd not started a game for Spurs in two years previous to Saturday, surely that tells you something? Just as an aside, Keane had no problem playing left midfield against Chelsea last November when we won 2-1 at the Lane, and he drops deep into midfield when played up front anyway.

If Keane played left midfield then there wouldnt be too much of a problem because he always drifts to the left but there is absolutely no way anybody can say he can play right midfield for a top 5 English side in a very important match and that is where Jol put him.

If Jol has any say in the transfers i dont know how he couldnt have bought a left midfielder this year. I am sure if you look at the goals they conceded last year, alot of them would have been down their left. His main priority should have been to buy a left back and a left midfielder. They only bought a left back and now they are left with Malbranque left wing.

therecklessone

iloveireland wrote:

If Keane played left midfield then there wouldnt be too much of a problem because he always drifts to the left but there is absolutely no way you can say he can play right midfield for a top 5 English side in a very important match and that is where Jol put him.

Keane drifts all over the pitch, the reason he didn't play well at RM was because he got in the way of Chimbonda too much during the game. You're still grasping with your "alright on the left, sh1te on the right".

iloveireland wrote:

If Jol has any say in the transfers i dont know how he couldnt have bought a left midfielder this year. I am sure if you look at the goals they conceded last year, alot of them would have been down their left. His main priority should have been to buy a left back and a left midfielder. They only bought a left back and now they are left with Malbranque left wing.

I wouldn't fancy you as Jol's replacement TBH, with Lennon on the right and a dedicated LW playing the other side we'd be murdered through a center of Zokora and Jenas. In the absence of a LW, you're saying Keane could play the position in front of a sh1t right-footed right back played out of position on the left.

Seriously, if you want to point out Jol's tactical mistakes fire away, I've done enough of it myself...wringing as much out of one decision in one game is a bit much though...

iloveireland

Do you ever notice that all his substitutions and tactical changes come at around the 70 minute mark.

He just does the same thing every match. Lets throw defoe, robbie Keane or any striker on and hope they get a goal. Arsene Wenger, Mourinho Ferguson and Benitez have all been complemented on there tactical changes at half time to change the results of matches. Jol justs waits for the 70 minute throws his strikers anywhere on the picth and hopes for goals.

therecklessone

iloveireland wrote:

Do you ever notice that all his substitutions and tactical changes come at around the 70 minute mark.

He just does the same thing every match. Lets throw defoe, robbie Keane or any striker on and hope they get a goal. Arsene Wenger, Mourinho Ferguson and Benitez have all been complemented on there tactical changes at half time to change the results of matches. Jol justs waits for the 70 minute throws his strikers anywhere on the picth and hopes for goals.

Well, going back to the last "big" game we played (against your mob) his tactical changes were:

Tainio off Malbranque on 60 minutes
Lennon off Huddlestone on 72 minutes
Zokora off Defoe on 82 minutes.

Keep grasping.

PHB

Jol justs waits for the 70 minute throws his strikers anywhere on the picth and hopes for goals.

Do you remember the treble season at all

therecklessone

Seriously, how many Spurs games do you watch in their entirity?