Internet 'Deals'

milkerman

A neighbours young fellah has been looking at me flying in the field behind the house for years. Since he was about 6 he would be gaping through the timber fence, now he is 12 and wants to fly.
I gave him a list of the things he needs and suggested an engine, plane & radio (same as my kit)
He & his dad went on the net to look for the best deal. Found the whole kit that sounded great value for €265.
The gear has now arrived, the plane is a bad copy of a Tutor 40 - loose covering & crap balsa. The engine looks ok but has not been started yet (RMX on the side). The radio transmitter simply does not work.
The disappointed kid has sent about a dozen e-mails to arrange a return on the tranny and seems to be on a hiding to nothing.
Moral of the tale- Sometimes these 'Deals' are just too good to be true.

Plug

Well he should have looked into what he was buying i call that tuff sh!t.
i looked at reviews and peoples opions on the model i purchaes and see whats best.

vectra

Have to agree with Plug.
I once lost a lot of money on a 1/6 scale buggy I bought in Germany.. Never turned up.
But hey.!
You win some and you lose some.
Overall I think I have saved a small fortune over the years by buying on the Net.
Including what i lost on that buggy I still come out on top

You cant down online buying by one or two bad deals can you?

Plug

I reckon there are more bad deals from buying directly at your LHS than online, online is the way forward i bet in another 10+ years shops will be slowing down thanks to online shopping. Online blocks the middle man therefore cheaper shopping which is better for the customer.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

There is still a middle man...

Manufacturer > Distributer > Hobbyshop/Online shop

vectra

Flunked wrote:

There is still a middle man...

Manufacturer > Distributer > Hobbyshop/Online shop

Still cheaper in the long run.

Plug

Flunked wrote:

There is still a middle man...

Manufacturer > Distributer > Hobbyshop/Online shop

By the middle man I meant the tax man.

coolwings

Hi Plug ... on VAT dodging with ebay purchases ... don't forget .. the tax man can come back years later, and then present you with an estimate of how much you have not paid, add on interest for the time passed, and hand you the bill. You are never "in the clear" when not paying the government their dues is concerned. Several prominant politicians and business characters have recently learned this lesson in a public and humiliating way, so nobody is immune from getting a tax bill after the event, for dodged tax liabilities.


Hi Milkerman ... sorry to hear about your friend's woes, even if they were self inflicted by a naive desire to save the last cent. We all learn sooner or later, don't we?
I suggest you ask him to call Patrick, the manager at www.greenhobbymodel.com in Dublin and explain the situation, and ask what can be done to go forward from here.
Although the sub standard stuff was bought elsewhere, and no warranty will exist, however the availability of some local assistance might help him salvage his enthusiasm for his aeromodelling hobby, and eventually get his plane into the air maybe a bit modified to make it airworthy.

Plug wrote:

I reckon there are more bad deals from buying directly at your LHS than online...

Shame on you Plug. You take an example of bad online trading, and then blame ALL of the other Irish hobby shops that did NOT have any involvement for the bad practise of the ripoff online operator.
IMHO That is terrible reasoning and illogical and a nasty smear to make.

Would you look at a crashed BMW and therefore conclude that all Mercedes cars are dangerous? Then go on a public forum and say it in writing? Not very logical. Not a well reasoned arguement.

In case you have not figured it out .. a local hobby shop always has more reason to help a modeller in the local area than a seller thousands of miles away can ever have. The LHS has a "bricks and mortar" investment in the local area. The hobby shop has a reputation to protect. The LHS markets the hobby locally, bringing in new club members etc. Usually the LHS is also a supporter of modelling activities in the local area with help, technical assistance and sponsorship.

Plug

Hi Plug ... on VAT dodging with ebay purchases ... don't forget .. the tax man can come back years later, and then present you with an estimate of how much you have not paid, add on interest for the time passed, and hand you the bill.

They don't do that! never happened to me or anyone i know and won't.

Shame on you Plug. You take an example of bad online trading, and then blame other Irish hobby shops that did not have any involvement for the bad practise of the ripoff online operator.
IMHO That is terrible reasoning and illogical and a nasty smear to make.

Shame on you Coolwings. I never opened up my mouth about irish hobby shops and I didn't blame them for being a rip off, i just said they were which is true. End of the line!

In case you have not figured it out .. a local hobby shop always has more reason to help a modeller in the local area than a seller thousands of miles away can ever have. The LHS has a "bricks and mortar" investment in the local area. The hobby shop has a reputation to protect. The LHS markets the hobby locally, bringing in new club members etc. Usually the LHS is also a supporter of modelling activities in the local area with help, technical assistance and sponsorship.

The only reason the modeller will want to come back for help is if he is selling faulty models etc. Online stores don't sell faulty models:p

coolwings

Plug wrote:

They don't do that! never happened to me or anyone i know and won't.

Not yet. The taxman might take time to get moving, but give him/them time! Tax and/or duty of 22 million euros was charged to " personal postal importers" last year.

Plug wrote:

i just said they were which is true. End of the line!

You said it all. You obviously believe you are right. I disagree with you on this part.

Plug wrote:

The only reason the modeller will want to come back for help is if he is selling faulty models etc.

Don't forget the beginners who have trouble getting them started for the first time ..... That was us once!

An online seller is just someone else's local seller far away. Some are big, some are medium and similar to our own LHS's online presence, some are so small they don't even have a permanent premises unless you count somebody's bedroom!
Was (to take the example mentioned above) Vectra's "missing" 1/5th car bought and paid for online "a faulty deal" or was it " a rewarding and successful experience"?
You may think it doesn't count because it didn't happen to you.

Plug wrote:

Online stores don't sell faulty models:p

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Plug wrote:

Online stores don't sell faulty models:p

Tower is your favourite store, yes?
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/duratrax/dtxd69.html
A very faulty and problematic truck.
That is one example. What about all the smartechs and other cars like that from the eBay shops? Useless and faulty for the best part of it...
My 0.02c..

I however agree to dissagree with basicly everything you said Plug:cool:

loopingfred

Wel, you also have the online shop, but in your own country ! :rolleyes:
http://www.islandmodels.ie

That's online, but still close enough for you to have a proper chat/service/lawsuit if needed !

Fred

coolwings

I know Plug can speak for himself, but I think when he said online shops never sell faulty stuff he had a smilie beside that and was speaking "tongue-in-cheek!

I imagine he would prefer to have a "fulltime LHS" in the Kilkenny area so as to encourage more people into his hobby (who live nearby), and create a viable race scene.
Trouble is, the online shopping habit removes incentive for anyone to put in the investment and effort to push things ahead locally, and it is then left up to the clubs, who do not have enough time/committment to make the hobby flourish, just by themselves.
It seems noticeable to me anyway that in locations where there are people who have a career interest in the hobby business, the nearby clubs are bigger and have more members too.
eg There was a local hobby shop in Kerry, and there was a race track, clubs, racing schedule, and so on. Due to insufficient business the shop couldn't make it and went back to selling fishing tackle. Now there is no shop ... no track ... no racing.
I wonder do the local WEst Cork/Kerry RC modelers (who used to complain that he was too dear) feel they have won anything by buying online.

I am in the other end of the country looking at it from a distance, but it seems to me they have lost something good, because they now have to buy everything from hundreds or thousands of miles away, and have to travel a big distance to race as a result.

There are clubs in other locations too (where there are no shops), but those clubs are always smaller, and farther apart than where a local hobby shop exists to promote and help the modellers, and especially, the beginners, because this is a complex hobby.
So clubs can't do it alone, they need LHS help, or the number of modellers nearby goes gently down over time.

hobie

I think the Reviews and advice available on the Net are the key to buying anything in the RC world .....

As a brand new entry to Model RC Aircraft world I took advice from here (Coolwings of course) ...... selected from his short list by reading loads of reviews on the web ..... found Forums dedicated to models in the short list ..... looked at local and web based suppliers ...... joined a club!!!! ....

and now .......

I Have a Plane/radio etc ....

about 45 minutes flying time under my belt allbeit with a Buddy box .....

only ever flown in 15mph winds (scary I know) ......

and have a plane that given the conditions I've been flying in and a couple of seconds in-attention will immediately speed up at a frightening rate and head off post haste for Germany !!!!! ......

But I love it .....

I should have done it years ago ....

one day the wind will Calm ..... :rolleyes:

and I will become a competent pilot .....

hobie

What did I finally decide on ......

A Multiplex Easy Star of course ......


http://plawner.net/3/1st_plane/winner_pictures/images/IMG_3540.jpg

coolwings

hobie wrote:

.... about 45 minutes flying time under my belt ...But I love it ..... I should have done it years ago .......

Hey , congrats Hobie

Plug

coolwings wrote:

Not yet. The taxman might take time to get moving, but give him/them time! Tax and/or duty of 22 million euros was charged to " personal postal importers" last year.

They didn't come to me.

Don't forget the beginners who have trouble getting them started for the first time ..... That was us once!

I never had a problem where i had to go to the LHS, it was all in the instructions and explained correctly with the help of coloured pictures and extremely user friendly and can't forget the DVD included.

Was (to take the example mentioned above) Vectra's "missing" 1/5th car bought and paid for online "a faulty deal" or was it " a rewarding and successful experience"?
You may think it doesn't count because it didn't happen to you.

That was the trensport company that slipped up i think not the seller. As vectra said even with that big loss he has still come out on top with all the bargins he got through the years. its bound to happen to someone sometime in there lifes, i wouldn't think all the orders going into green hobby were all succsesful either?

Plug

Tower is your favourite store, yes?
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/duratrax/dtxd69.html
A very faulty and problematic truck.
That is one example.

You don't know that at all you just asume, says the lad that keeps breaking his carson fuel tanks:rolleyes:

What about all the smartechs and other cars like that from the eBay shops? Useless and faulty for the best part of it...
My 0.02c..

ahh there all the little toys not really model spec now are they, if i want them i go to the poundshop not ebay.

I however agree to dissagree with basicly everything you said Plug:cool:

Likewise;)

vectra

Flunked wrote:

That is one example. What about all the smartechs and other cars like that

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Smartech the same as the Carson??

Plug

vectra wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Smartech the same as the Carson??

LOL if this is a true statement:D

vectra

Plug wrote:

LOL if this is a true statement:D

There are several companys out there that basically have the same models re-badged.

Carson
Smartech
Duratrax ??

To name but a few :cool:

Plug

Now that you say that don't carson have this thing? http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMPT0**&P=ML

Wonder how much thats worth here:rolleyes:

milkerman

What have I started.
Sure there are great deals to be had on ebay & other sites BUT sometimes the DEAL IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. This is the case and cannot be argued.
Reviewers- Have any of you ever read a Bad Review of a plane or engine in any of the modelling magazines? I have never seen one, I believe the reason being that a supplier will not donate any further gear for review to a magazine if they get slated- the magazine would then have no articles to include in the next edition & cease trading.
On the gossip thread I recounted my experience with a model flying club. Since then I have gone back for another entertaining visit and met a different bunch of guys. I got talking to some of these and the subject of planes off the internet came up. One of them then went on a rant about some chinese manufacturer that makes artf planes that look perfectly scale but fly like ****e. Incident angles, wing loading, tail moments were all slated in his argument, he then said that he will only ever buy an artf if he can hold & examine it closely. This allows him form his own realistic expectations of how it will fly, what engine is needed etc. This started a lively & animated debate. I still think they are a very 'different' bunch - but good craic in the main.

In the end, we can all buy where we like. I simply wish to point out that the camera and reviewers do LIE from time to time. So if you want to buy from the net at least make sure you are dealing with a reputable supplier.
Sin e

Plug

milkerman wrote:

In the end, we can all buy where we like. I simply wish to point out that the camera and reviewers do LIE from time to time. So if you want to buy from the net at least make sure you are dealing with a reputable supplier.
Sin e

And so he went to tower hobbies and lived happily ever after.

About the reviews you do get bad a nd good but most of the time good, try looking at the goods and bads part of the review(usally at the end).

vectra

milkerman wrote:

What have I started.
Reviewers- Have any of you ever read a Bad Review of a plane or engine in any of the modelling magazines? I have never seen one, I believe the reason being that a supplier will not donate any further gear for review to a magazine if they get slated- the magazine would then have no articles to include in the next edition & cease trading.

Funny you should say that.
Recently I bought 2 Truggies.
I was not sure what to buy but I did put my eye on one that looked good value on Ebay.

BUT

I was not prepared to beleive everything the Manufacturer said about it so I did my own research on it. Turned out that a perticular magazine was offered one to review and when they got it they discovered it was one of the worse if not THE worst Truggy they had laid their hands on. So much so they sent it back and told the company forget it.
BUT
They still offered their opinion to anyone that enquired about it, which I was glad of.

Moral of the story?
Do a research before you buy anything.

Same if you go into a LHS.
Are you gonna beleive everything you are told by the salesperson just because that would be the particular model they sell ?

I think not.

So at the end of the day both outlets sum up to be similar.

Both can sell quality goods and also can sell rubbish. :cool:

coolwings

vectra wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Smartech the same as the Carson??

No it is not. Smartech is a cheap knock off that is intended to look like Carson.

For instance Smartech uses a similar baseplate to a Carson. So to an uninformed looker they appear similar.
The resemblence sort of ends there. Smartech has inferior parts fitted throughout that break easily, a steel head engine that seizes easily, a sealed pullstart that is unrepairable, etc.

The Carson parts that happen to look the same, are actually made from alloy and proper metal.

Smartech would not pass the requirements of the Sale of Goods Act. So they are not sold in Ireland, only online.

But you know the difference already Vectra. You have a Carson 1:5th.

vectra

coolwings wrote:

No it is not. Smartech is a cheap knock off that is intended to look like Carson.

For instance Smartech uses a similar baseplate to a Carson. So to an uninformed looker they appear similar.
The resemblence sort of ends there. Smartech has inferior parts fitted throughout that break easily, a steel head engine that seizes easily, a sealed pullstart that is unrepairable, etc.

The Carson parts that happen to look the same, are actually made from alloy and proper metal.

Smartech would not pass the requirements of the Sale of Goods Act. So they are not sold in Ireland, only online.

But you know the difference already Vectra. You have a Carson 1:5th.

Thats History..
I sold it.. LOL

But
Not stepping on toes or anything like.
What you just said about the Smartech being a cheap spinoff of the Carson

Isnt that exactly the words of drivers/sellers of FG's?
They say the Carson is a cheap spinoff of the FG.

Seems to me like a little stepladder going downwards..

coolwings

vectra wrote:

...What you just said about the Smartech being a cheap spinoff of the Carson....Isnt that exactly the words of drivers/sellers of FG's?
They say the Carson is a cheap spinoff of the FG. ...

Trying to get a rise? Sorry not biting today.
If anything I said is inaccurate say so.

vectra wrote:

...Not stepping on toes or anything ...

Not stepping ... just dancing, eh? .

OTOH I have held in my hands dozens of Smartech, tens of Duratrax, and hundreds of Carson. I have started, run, tuned, and stopped them all. I have worked on them all.

I have told plenty of Smartech owners why their car is too cheap to be worth fixing the problems in it and watched their crestfallen disappointment. That is not a nice thing to have to do to kids, but they bought the cheapest car warts and all, always online, and I don't have a magic wand to make it go right. :-)

You insinuate (but don't say outright) that a cheap copy "might be" the same.
Yet you bought a Carson/FG.

Maybe I know what I'm talking about, And maybe you agree with me all along but you are are messing with readers minds for fun!

vectra

Well to be honest with you.
Personally I dont see anything wrong with Carson.... As a Toy....!!
Certainly not a race machine.

Back to the topic

What I initially said was that not all internet buying is bad.

You just have to look at what you intend buying VERY CAREFULLY if you are not familiar with the particular product... EXACTLY AS YOU WOULD IN A SHOP.. Therefore no difference... EXCEPT... Online is miles cheaper in the long run.. and getting burned with the Carson Attack certainly did not put me off. That was just a hiccup..

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Arn't Carson a sub-company of Tamiya? And Tamiya is possibly the largest/oldest RC/Models comapny around?

If I could drive the buggy without it getting any bumps of curbs/cars the tanks wouldnt break, But I'm bashing on the road and I cant drive for excretment.

To be finished later

coolwings

vectra wrote:

...What I initially said was that not all interent buying is bad.
You just have to look at what you intend buying VERY CAREFULLY if you are not familiar with the particular product... EXACTLY AS YOU WAOULD IN A SHOP.. Therefore no difference... ...

Agreed