Who is correct in this roundabout scenario?

thunderone

I have been lurking on this topic..(relative new-comer to boards). I find it very interesting.

The conflicting views are worrying about driver behaviour/competency here in Ireland and as highlighted by Cast Iron the quality of driver training and driving manner on our roads.
The immediate 3 lanes into two (dual carriage way) is a design flaw in my opinion and leads to confusion irrespective..hence the varying views here on the board. A myriad of other factors leads to people getting other roundabouts, junctions etc wrong also :
1. Driving Experience
2. Not paying attention (the early morning..wish i could stay in bed syndrome etc)
3. Unfamilar with rules of the road
4. Driver late for work/time pressures..willing to take risk/make mistakes
5. Driver aggression :"road rage"..becoming ever more apparant

I will seek to consult driving instructors on this issue before commenting myself. A very interesting topic and am I am aware i drifted off topic somewhat, apologies. Would be very interested in other scenarios and the response from drivers here. A topic in itself maybe?

copacetic

I think the confusion and difference in opinions are purely due to some people putting more store in being 'right' while others are putting more store in driving carefully and avoiding accidents rather than being in the 'right'.

I for one could have been in hundreds of accidents in my 15 years or so on the road and said I was in the 'right', I'd rather try and avoid them in the first place though. So far it has been successful, touch wood.

PeakOutput

J_R wrote:

The OP posted that she was exiting in the right hand lane, workmate claimed she cut him off

she "cut him off" due to what appears to be an unsafe lane change. if she had of followed normal rules while changing lane she should of waited for him to drive by regardless os weather he should have been there or not

From that I assumed he entered same entrance as her, going straight ahead, hence previous post on road markings. He simply should not have been there, he was totally in the wrong, liable for a penalty point.

he was in the wrong but we are talking about IF an accident occured who would be to blame he would NOT have been 100% to blame

Back to exiting, she may exit either left or right lane if she obeys the rules regarding priority. That is, give way to traffic already on the roundabout, allow cars who wish to exit to cross in front, do not enter a lane in front of another car, etc. etc. etc. Same rules apply equally to whichever lane she takes. I do not understand the difficulty.

as I said I PERSONALLY do not think exiting onto the right hand lane from the left lane of the roundabout is SAFE if there are other cars around

To simplify matters, say you are on a two lane roundabout, exiting into a dual carriageway, when you cross from an inside lane to the outside lane to exit, that is a lane change. It is still a lane change whither you choose to exit into the left or right hand lane. No difference whatsoever, you just stay on the roundabout for a few meters longer. If you want the right hand lane of the dual carriageway, staying on the roundabout those extra few meters saves you a full lane change in the dual carriageway. And all the inherent dangers that entails.

if you are on the left lane of a two lane ra exiting onto a dual carriageway you do not "wait a few extra seconds" so you can exit on the right hand lane. you exit onto the left lane as is the rules of a ra. if you are in the inside lane of a two lane ra exiting to a dual carriageway you SHOULD be exiting into the right hand lane of the dual carriageway

Quite a few of the replies say she must not exit in the right hand lane, so, who exactly can exit in that lane ??.

people who enter the ra at the entrance to the right of the one the op and the guy did as has already been said. people seem to be thinking this entrance and exit are the only ones on the ra if they were it would just be a straight road with no ra

Basic rule of exiting from a roundabout is you exit left, irrespective which entrance/exit. However that may be superseded by road markings, above situation etc. etc

you have just contradicted everything you said above about changing lanes to exit to the lane you want. the op EITHER did not exit left or she did and then performed an unsafe lane change on the dual carriageway because she assumed no1 was behind her in that lane

BrianD3

PeakOutput wrote:

people who enter the ra at the entrance to the right of the one the op and the guy did as has already been said. people seem to be thinking this entrance and exit are the only ones on the ra if they were it would just be a straight road with no ra

How do you know that these drivers are not directed into the SAME lane as the OP halfway around the roundoabout. It is often the case when turning right at a big roundabout drivers must keep right at the start but "drift" left as they go around. If they stay right they end up doing a U turn. So they start off in the RH lane but by the time they get to theri exit they are either directly behind or directly in front of the OP.

If this is the case and everybody is in the correct lane, then nobody can cut anyone else up.

The point at which the OP moved to her right was past the point at which a vehicle should be to her side. I am talking about *any* vehicle coming from *any* direction. And if my visualisation is correct she didn't actually change lanes at all just followed a split in her own lane.

PeakOutput

BrianD3 wrote:

How do you know that these drivers are not directed into the SAME lane as the OP halfway around the roundabout. It is often the case when turning right at a big roundabout drivers must keep right at the start but "drift" left as they go around. If they stay right they end up doing a U turn. So they start off in the RH lane but by the time they get to theri exit they are either directly behind or directly in front of the OP.

that could be the case alright but we dont know so its hard to guess either way i suppose.

PeakOutput

cast_iron wrote:

Indeed.

It says alot about our driver training (we can't refer to ANY documentation to get a conclusive answer).

well as far as I can see the conclusive answer is that he was wrong for being in the wrong lane..........thats a definite. what is open to debate after that is if the op is entitled to assume that no1 has made the mistake the guy did and take up any lane she wishes at any time she wishes and I say she is not

J_R

Hi,

I give up.

if she had of followed normal rules while changing lane she should of waited for him to drive by

Why, How, What normal rules? He can clearly see her in front, he is leaving the 3rd (inside) lane crossing over into her 2nd (middle lane) Rules say, give way to traffic already in the lane you are entering (whither in front or behind). He should have simply slowed down followed her as she turned left and entered the RIGHT HAND lane behind her. And there would be no problem. Except for the wee matter of him breaking the law.

If he was in front of her (and to her right), she should of course yield -allow him to cross and exit.

f you are on the left lane of a two lane ra exiting onto a dual carriageway you do not "wait a few extra seconds"

Never said above

I said wait a few extra meters in the "INSIDE" lane in my example. It would be highly dangerous to do as you misquoted

if you are in the inside lane of a two lane ra exiting to a dual carriageway you SHOULD be exiting into the right hand lane of the dual carriageway

No you exit in the left hand lane. Basic Driving rules. Get Left - Stay Left. Exception: See Below

people who enter the ra at the entrance to the right of the one the op and the guy did as has already been said. people seem to be thinking this entrance and exit are the only ones on the ra if they were it would just be a straight road with no ra

See Above

I Say again basic rule, exit in the left hand lane, UNLESS you are turning right a short distance ahead OR else marked lanes and you then exit into the appropriate marked lane

PeakOutput

I said wait a few extra meters in the "INSIDE" lane in my example. It would be highly dangerous to do as you misquoted

yes just reread there what you said i apologise for misquoting it is still wrong to be in the left lane on the ra and exit onto the right lane

No you exit in the left hand lane. Basic Driving rules. Get Left - Stay Left. Exception: See Below

I Say again basic rule, exit in the left hand lane, UNLESS you are turning right a short distance ahead OR else marked lanes and you then exit into the appropriate marked lane

http://www.irishmotoring.ie/cms/publish/car/rulesoftheroad/1.php

go down to the second picture of a roundabout and read what it says. it is very clear.


edit; now either she exited onto the right lane or she moved from the left lane of the dual carriage way into the right lane without being carefull enough neither are the correct way to do things

J_R

Hi,

go down to the second picture of a roundabout and read what it says. it is very clear.

Yes very clear for a standard two lane d'way - roundabout. We (or at least I) were discussing a 3 Lane roundabout, with the OP being in the Middle lane, NOT the left lane.

PeakOutput

J_R wrote:

Hi,

We (or at least I) were discussing a 3 Lane roundabout

you were not talking about 3 lanes ra's when you said this

To simplify matters, say you are on a two lane roundabout, exiting into a dual carriageway, when you cross from an inside lane to the outside lane to exit, that is a lane change. It is still a lane change whither you choose to exit into the left or right hand lane. No difference whatsoever, you just stay on the roundabout for a few meters longer. If you want the right hand lane of the dual carriageway, staying on the roundabout those extra few meters saves you a full lane change in the dual carriageway. And all the inherent dangers that entails.

which is what I am disputing

J_R

PeakOutput wrote:

you were not talking about 3 lanes ra's when you said this
which is what I am disputing

We were (or at least I were) discussing a 3 lane.

I clearly wrote

To simplify matters,

I used a 2 lane example. Very little difference, OP stays in Middle lane instead of in my example of the inside lane, then exits into the right hand lane of the d'way, straight through the left hand lane of the roundabout. Cross one lane both instances.

PeakOutput

J_R wrote:

We were (or at least I were) discussing a 3 lane.

I clearly wrote I used a 2 lane example. Very little difference, OP stays in Middle lane instead of in my example of the inside lane, then exits into the right hand lane of the d'way, straight through the left hand lane of the roundabout. Cross one lane both instances.

ok but were you are saying the middle lane of the 3 lane round about should be treated the same as the inside lane of a two lane roundabout, I would disagree and say it should be treated the same as the outside lane. on the majority of 3 lane ra's you do not have arrows that are pointing you to go right only in the right lane so if you were to treat the middle lane the same as the inside lane of a two lane ra you would be cutting people in the far right lane off when they tried to go straight ahead. in my experience the far left lane of a three lane ra is always left only so you are left with the other two lanes to make your way to the rest of the exits.

this is getting so confusing and it wont be resolved directly relating to the ops problem unless she tells us which ra it is so we can have a gawk at the google earth image of it.

J_R

PeakOutput wrote:

ok but were you are saying the middle lane of the 3 lane round about should be treated the same as the inside lane of a two lane roundabout,

No way. I was attempting (and obviously unsuccessfully) to explain how to exit a roundabout. Choosing to exit into either the left or right lane in the d'way. And from a lane other than the outside r'bout lane.