Irish army ranger wing

Hagar

PeakOutput wrote:

also the army do get riot training but and are the next port of call if the garda riot squad is not enough as far as I know.

We certainly did in the FCA in mid 70's and were even involved in one well publicised incident in the Curragh albeit in a supporting roll to the Regs, but we were there.

DublinWriter

Hagar wrote:

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

Probably because it's difficult to conduct negotiations from a mile away.

Hagar

Shotguns don't have a mile range, I suppose we'ed be talking a 40/50 metre cordon maximum.

DublinWriter

Hagar wrote:

Shotguns don't have a mile range, I suppose we'ed be talking a 40/50 metre cordon maximum.

Well, I know that the offical range for 9mm handguns is one-mile when the guards draw up the maps for outdoor shooting ranges.

If they are in a situation where someone has firearms, it's only right for them to corden off the area in order to protect the public. John McCarthy had been shooting at a nearby neighbour's house prior to the ERU arriving and was deemed a threat.

The house was detached with windows on every side, giving John McCarthy a 360 degree range of shot.

What would you have had them do?

arybvtcw0eolkf

John McCarthy.

IMO he was given way too much time. He should have been shot dead sooner.

Some of his shots hit a garda car, plus a mega-phone being used by a cop.

He sealed his own faith, and I don't care what his mential state was at the time. I'd like to think I'd have shot him dead without a second thought, went home hugged my wife and kids then deal with the sh*t.

cushtac

The ARW were called into a hostage situtation in Mountjoy some years ago to examine the posibility of an explosive entry to the room & to provide assistance to the prison service. In the end the situation was resolved peacefully.

Ruen

Mairt wrote:

John McCarthy.

IMO he was given way too much time. He should have been shot dead sooner.

Some of his shots hit a garda car, plus a mega-phone being used by a cop.

He sealed his own faith, and I don't care what his mential state was at the time. I'd like to think I'd have shot him dead without a second thought, went home hugged my wife and kids then deal with the sh*t.

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

cushtac

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

Every foreign expert that was asked about it said that Carthy would have been shot the minute he left the house if he'd failed to drop the gun.

It's all well & good to say that a shotgun isn't that dangerous, but we weren't the ones getting shot at. The Garda who shot Carthy warned him to stop advancing on unarmed Gardaí & when these were ignored he tried to incapacitate him by shooting him in the legs. Unfortunately he died as a result.

Poccington

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

So by your logic, they should've stayed out of his way altogether?

Stayed out of his way after he had already fired numerous shots and was a threat to the public? When there is a man with a loaded weapon and who is percieved as a threat to the public....... You cannot just "stay outta the way"

The Garda took the necessary action with regards to the situation...... How anybody can try place blame on the Garda in that situation is beyond me. But then again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

eroo

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

it doesnt matter if anyone was in the way.if someone advances on your position with a fully loaded weapon,you dont have much time to react,it could be a case of shoot or be shot.in america,for example,he'd have been shot after the 1st call for him to put his weapon down.ERU called on him twice.they tried everything they could in those few seconds.
nowadays,i dont think ARW would be used in a prison hostage situ.ERU probably would deal with it.ARW would be called in if hostiles were armed with guns and/or explosives.dont underestimate the skills and professionality of ERU.they do have all the gear....and yes,the idea too!their record is v.good.how many times a year are people shot dead by gardai??

back to topic;if your friend wants a realistic chance of getting into ARW,he/she should be able to run 10 miles in 70 minutes!thats just a litmus test.if he/she is serious,they should pick up 'Fighting Fit:SAS Fitness Training Guide' by Adrian Weale.with a programme to get you fit,then another programme for you to start 4 months before selection.hope that helps

lemansky

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.

'The smashed loudhailer lay on the ground.The bullet that went through it had done the desired damage.....'

From one of the books about Abbeylara that wasn't really very neutral. The foreword actually made me laugh.

The moment he left that house and didn't stop, everything that had happened before became irrelevant, mental state and the way he had been dealt with included. They saw a man with a shotgun that they saw had one in it when he closed it back up, advancing on their position. That is what they had to act upon.After calls to stop he didn't. End of story.

A split second to make a decision, as long as anyone needed to scrutinise it.

cushtac

People also forget that the ERU weren't running things in Abbeylara, a local Supt was in charge.

Irish_Army01

NoQuarter

nice pics, is that steyr sprayed black!?

Ruen

Poccington wrote:

So by your logic, they should've stayed out of his way altogether?

Stayed out of his way after he had already fired numerous shots and was a threat to the public? When there is a man with a loaded weapon and who is percieved as a threat to the public....... You cannot just "stay outta the way"

The Garda took the necessary action with regards to the situation...... How anybody can try place blame on the Garda in that situation is beyond me. But then again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

No, but not in his direct line of fire....that's logical.
He wasnt much of a threat inside a Garda cordon when the nearest public were a couple miles away.

Steyr

Looks like someone took all the pictures out of this Months An Cosantoir....:D

lemansky

Threat to the public or unarmed Gardaí aside, he was told to drop his weapon, he didn't he must be treated like everyone else in that situation, regardless of his mental state.(In fact all the gardaí could do was assume that that would make him more unpredictable.Not necessarily more dangerous, but more unpredictable.)

Irish_Army01

king-stew wrote:

nice pics, is that steyr sprayed black!?

No, Its the A2 version..It has a picatinny rail system for adding accessories..,for example Night vision, Surfire tourch,laser designators and various other sighting systems.

Captain Chaos

Irish_Army01 wrote:

No, Its the A2 version..It has a picatinny rail system for adding accessories..,for example Night vision, Surfire tourch,laser designators and various other sighting systems.

No its actually the new A3 version.

Irish_Army01

Captain Chaos wrote:

No its actually the new A3 version.

Correct..I meant the A3:o

Poccington

Of course it's hard being in the Wing..... You have to walk around with black tape over your eyes everyday

lemansky

Poccington wrote:

Of course it's hard being in the Wing..... You have to walk around with black tape over your eyes everyday

Dirty Dave

Saw some pictures in an coisantior (Yes I realise it's spelled wrong) a few years ago - there was some kind of anniversary of the ARW, 20 years I think?

Anyway, they had this big multi page spread showing the festivities - they had invited serving and former members of the unit with their families to the curragh for the day - they had stalls and demo's set up etc for people to see and play with.

The funny thing was, they blurred out the faces of all the rangers in the photo, but not their wives and children! So there was super secretive rangers with their faces blurred out, who were carrying easily identifiable children on their shoulders, with their arms around easily identifiable wives!

Seloth

Ye guys know that the ARW came second in a special forces competion which had all the worlds best and most known special forces.

I was really shocked at some peoples views on them as these guysa are the best of the best practically on a world wide view.

cyrusdvirus

lemansky wrote:

Threat to the public or unarmed Gardaí aside, he was told to drop his weapon, he didn't he must be treated like everyone else in that situation, regardless of his mental state.(In fact all the gardaí could do was assume that that would make him more unpredictable.Not necessarily more dangerous, but more unpredictable.)

My opinion about this at the time, and now was/is quite simple.

Big boys games, big boys rules.

He came out of the house, with a loaded gun, and had already shown a willingness to use the weapon.
The fact that he was mentally disturbed is what made the situation into the press induced hunting party that it became.

But no matter how mentally disturbed you are, i think you'd know that to come out of a house carrying a gun, walking towards other lads with guns and them shouting at you to put the weapon down, then you are gonna know that it isn't the safest situation to be in, and you realise that you'd better put the gun down.

Steyr

Seloth wrote:

Ye guys know that the ARW came second in a special forces competion which had all the worlds best and most known special forces.

Not second they came third, Its on again very soon they are trying for Number 1.

Poccington

I think I might still have that article about that tournament upstairs.

I'll have a look for it and if I find it I'll put it up.

Dub13

Poccington wrote:

I think I might still have that article about that tournament upstairs.

I'll have a look for it and if I find it I'll put it up.

I could be wrong but I think I remember reading that no US Units entered this competition.

eroo

Dub13 wrote:

I could be wrong but I think I remember reading that no US Units entered this competition.

you'd be absolutely correct.neither did UKSF.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/army-rangers-among-best-elite-forces-210033.html

Seloth

according to the article though they only enter if they have a high chance of winning...trith or Irish boastful lies.

CLADA

Seloth wrote:

according to the article though they only enter if they have a high chance of winning...trith or Irish boastful lies.

The U.S and U.K only enter when they're not up to their tonsils in Iraq or Afghanistan!!!

Dub13

CLADA wrote:

The U.S and U.K only enter when they're not up to their tonsils in Iraq or Afghanistan!!!

Thats what I was thinking,why enter a competition when there guys are doing it for real day in day out.

On a side note,if the last competition was back in 03 and its every 4 years their should be one this year.

Irish_Army01

Dub13 wrote:

Thats what I was thinking,why enter a competition when there guys are doing it for real day in day out.

On a side note,if the last competition was back in 03 and its every 4 years their should be one this year.

yep..happening very shortly.;)

Terrontress

Seloth wrote:

according to the article though they only enter if they have a high chance of winning...trith or Irish boastful lies.

It is a ridiculous thing to say. And badly written too. A sentence on its own.

When people think of special forces it is usually the Yanks, the Brits and the Israelis that come to mind.

cp251

Indeed, Dub is correct. They would be too busy to enter a mere competition when they're doing it for real every day. They may not even win in any case. Any time soldiers are operational they lose some of the training edge. Think about if you had a marching competition. Who would you enter, experienced troops or newly minted recruits?

I suspect the SAS would win anyway, but not the Americans. But look at it this way. If the ARW won, that might just make our guys the second best in the world.

It would be no surprise for the ARW to do well. After all, no one would dare question the fighting abilities of Irish soldiers serving in any army, history tells us that. The SAS itself has always had a strong Irish contingent. Not just Nordies either.

Terrontress

cp251 wrote:

Indeed, Dub is correct. They would be too busy to enter a mere competition when they're doing it for real every day. They may not even win in any case. Any time soldiers are operational they lose some of the training edge. Think about if you had a marching competition. Who would you enter, experienced troops or newly minted recruits?

I suspect the SAS would win anyway, but not the Americans. But look at it this way. If the ARW won, that might just make our guys the second best in the world.

It would be no surprise for the ARW to do well. After all, no one would dare question the fighting abilities of Irish soldiers serving in any army, history tells us that. The SAS itself has always had a strong Irish contingent. Not just Nordies either.

There are a good few people from ROI floating about the Royal Marines as well.

I have a friend who is the works in recruitment for the Royal Navy in NI. He said that the recruits from ROI are the best he sees and he has worked all over the UK.

For a person to sign up to the Navy or Marines in England or Scotland, they can simply pop down to their high street where there is a recruitment centre, sign on the dotted line and on they go.

For someone from ROI to sign up, they have to go up to Northern Ireland, go to an interview in Palace Barracks, pass security checks which can take
up to six months. To go through all this you need to be especially committed.

bunny shooter

SAS would win anyway......load of s...t

What about the SAS team ambushed and killed in the North by an IRA active service unit while the SAS were waiting to ambush them ?

Met an ex Irish Army Ranger and he reckoned best special forces were the German GSG9 and that the SAS were "pussies" !

What about Bravo Two Zero, what a cock up. All because they never checked their radio frequencies.... amatuers !

Dub13

All unites whether elite or mainstream have there cock ups.

Fratton Fred

bunny shooter wrote:

Met an ex Irish Army Ranger and he reckoned best special forces were the German GSG9 and that the SAS were "pussies" !

a view he would no doubt share with any member of the SAS face to face:rolleyes:

bunny shooter

Fratton Fred wrote:

a view he would no doubt share with any member of the SAS face to face:rolleyes:

Anyone can shoot unarmed people, bit harder when they're shooting back !

Poccington

Fratton Fred wrote:

a view he would no doubt share with any member of the SAS face to face:rolleyes:

What would the SAS lad do that would make it so insane for said Ex Wing member to say he thought his unit were pussies?

SAS lads aren't superheroes...... I'm sure the Ex Wing would be more than able to protect himself. Unless of course the SAS lad used his Super Ninja Death Chop to take him out :rolleyes:

Poccington

Dub13 wrote:

All unites whether elite or mainstream have there cock ups.

Exactly...... All this sh!te of "X Unit is better" and "No, they're ****. Y Unit would slaughter everyone" is ridiculous.

Flying

The Ranger Wing are far from Special forces they are advanced infantry or similar to the British Parachute Regiment, possibly similar to the Pathfinders.

The Quality Level in the wing has dropped over the years as IMHO they are getting softer from the days of the Early 80's and the SAG the pre runners to the wing or the special assault group. My father who was one of the main people being the inception of the ARW to this day still insists they are not special forces.

The SAS and the US Army Delta Teams are,I would even class the Royal Marine Commando's a better unit. I have served as part of the above pathfinders and also here and found most of the members of the wing not to be trained to the high level the should and selection would be nothing compared to "P" Company IMHO.

As for anyone joining the army, the wing should be the last thing on their minds, walk before running although I have seen a good few 3 Star privates straight of the 3 star course go for selection and pass back in the day but the standard has dropped overall in the army as they are taking more and more wasters in who are gone in a few days and sometimes hours !

eroo

Flying wrote:

The Ranger Wing are far from Special forces they are advanced infantry or similar to the British Parachute Regiment, possibly similar to the Pathfinders.

The Quality Level in the wing has dropped over the years as IMHO they are getting softer from the days of the Early 80's and the SAG the pre runners to the wing or the special assault group. My father who was one of the main people being the inception of the ARW to this day still insists they are not special forces.

The SAS and the US Army Delta Teams are,I would even class the Royal Marine Commando's a better unit. I have served as part of the above pathfinders and also here and found most of the members of the wing not to be trained to the high level the should and selection would be nothing compared to "P" Company IMHO.

As for anyone joining the army, the wing should be the last thing on their minds, walk before running although I have seen a good few 3 Star privates straight of the 3 star course go for selection and pass back in the day but the standard has dropped overall in the army as they are taking more and more wasters in who are gone in a few days and sometimes hours !

how positive!are you in the Wing??i think not.they ARE Special Forces.no infantry unit has the capacity/skills/range of operation to match the Wing.if anything standard in Wing has gone up with the Defence Forces receiving more money in budget

bunny shooter

Poccington wrote:

What would the SAS lad do that would make it so insane for said Ex Wing member to say he thought his unit were pussies?

I don't know didn't ask. Asked him what he thought of SAS and he said and I quote "pussies"........ he was in a position to give an opinion, are you ?

Flying

eroo wrote:

how positive!are you in the Wing??i think not.they ARE Special Forces.no infantry unit has the capacity/skills/range of operation to match the Wing.if anything standard in Wing has gone up with the Defence Forces receiving more money in budget

Sorry walter mitty when you know what you are talking about come back to me also dont assume anything about me as you know nothing you are most likely an armchair expert or in the sandbags so jog on.

The Wing are AT - Adavanced Infantry and also the US Army Ranger have the same amount of skills, as do the British Parachute Regiment, the Royal Marine Commando's Mountain and Artic warfare cadre.

They are not Special Forces in any form or manner, I've been with them, being on operations with them and they themselves admit they are not SF.!!

bunny shooter

Flying, Those that have done it don't talk about it and those that haven't do ....... You know about sandbags don't you ? When the s...t kicks off the soldiers hide behind the sandbags ......

So you weren't/aren't a ranger, what were you a sandbag for them ?

Bet you were/are a special force, in your own mind, considering you're obviously a big fan of the RDF (which I presume you're sandbag reference refers to), which you probably never served in. I've met you're sort in the PDF and sorted them too. RDF rank carrys the same weight as the PDF rank. You're a dying breed, thank God.

eroo

bunny shooter wrote:

Flying, Those that have done it don't talk about it and those that haven't do ....... You know about sandbags don't you ? When the s...t kicks off the soldiers hide behind the sandbags ......

So you weren't/aren't a ranger, what were you a sandbag for them ?

Bet you were/are a special force, in your own mind, considering you're obviously a big fan of the RDF (which I presume you're sandbag reference refers to), which you probably never served in. I've met you're sort in the PDF and sorted them too. RDF rank carrys the same weight as the PDF rank. You're a dying breed, thank God.

here here!!!

Flying

bunny shooter wrote:

Flying, Those that have done it don't talk about it and those that haven't do ....... You know about sandbags don't you ? When the s...t kicks off the soldiers hide behind the sandbags ......

So you weren't/aren't a ranger, what were you a sandbag for them ?

Bet you were/are a special force, in your own mind, considering you're obviously a big fan of the RDF (which I presume you're sandbag reference refers to), which you probably never served in. I've met you're sort in the PDF and sorted them too. RDF rank carrys the same weight as the PDF rank. You're a dying breed, thank God.

Sorry Pal but I have no time for the Walter Mittys of the FCA and dont make me laugh about rank there, they are by far the biggest waste of my money eg. the tax payer and also I have nearly 14 years service between 2 armies so again dont make assumptions.

I see this Military forum is rife with walters like yourself, who like to PLAY, when you do it as a job and for a living come back with a more educated approach.

As for SANDBAGS the term used for these people who think they are soldiers, we spend longer deprogramming these idiots from BS Mode to real soldier mode when the turn up for Recruit training in the PDF.

And the wastage rate with the "Commando's" from the FCA is higher than that of the average civilian off the street.

Oh did I boil your blood, jog on son !

bunny shooter

Flying wrote:

Sorry Pal but I have no time for the Walter Mittys of the FCA and dont make me laugh about rank there, they are by far the biggest waste of my money eg. the tax payer and also I have nearly 14 years service between 2 armies so again dont make assumptions.

I see this Military forum is rife with walters like yourself, who like to PLAY, when you do it as a job and for a living come back with a more educated approach.

As for SANDBAGS the term used for these people who think they are soldiers, we spend longer deprogramming these idiots from BS Mode to real soldier mode when the turn up for Recruit training in the PDF.

And the wastage rate with the "Commando's" from the FCA is higher than that of the average civilian off the street.

Oh did I boil your blood, jog on son !

Boil, not even warm ! Programming/deprogramming is for computers. As I said you're a dying breed.......