FA Cup Winners to go into Champions League?

_blank_

I've just heard a report on BBC Radio saying that The FA are not commenting on reports that the FA Cup Winners will enter the Champions at the expense of the 4th placed team in the league.

Might serve to increase interest in the cup.

sweetie

How many years since a top 4 team didn't win the FA cup?

The Sparrow

I think its a brilliant idea... I`ve been saying this for years to anyone that will listen.

You can say when was the last time a non top four team won it, but at least they have won something and can be considered champions of something instead of finishing fourth in the league.

Plus it will encourage every premiership team to give it their best in the competition and would quickly restore it to its former glory imo. Because for many clubs it would be more lucrative to win the FA Cup than their league position if they have no chance of getting into the CL places in the PL. I bet the PL wouldn`t be too happy about it but other than that I can`t see why it wasn`t done years ago.

Oh and to answer the question, the last time somebody out of the top four won it was when Everton did in 1995 as far as i know.

Edit: Plus if a team that had already qualified for the champions league won it, wouldn`t the place go to the runner up? And there have been lost of non top four FA Cup finalists in recent years.

sweetie

sweetie wrote:

How many years since a top 4 team didn't win the FA cup?

Was just gonna say that, so it wouldnt matter.

Benedict XVI

The FA as a competion is not to bad it's just that if you get a final involving two of the top 4 then it is not going to set the world on fire.

What an FA cup final needs is a mid to lower Premiership table team i that have the will to win it, and if there is a CL place on offer the motivation should be greater.

the best FA cup final of the last few yaers was West Ham v Liverpool, Westham had something to play for unlike Chelsea v Man Utd this year

BKtje

How many years since a top 4 team didn't win the FA cup?

1995! :eek: :eek:

Everton. Didnt realise it had been that long.

Necronomicon

woooo232 wrote:

Plus if a team that had already qualified for the champions league won it, wouldn`t the place go to the runner up? And there have been lost of non top four FA Cup finalists in recent years.

I doubt it, I'd say it'd revert back to the 4th placed team in the league.

I can definately see the arguement for it, it would increase interest in the competition, but you could argue that in recent seasons (apart from West Ham) teams have come closer to cracking the top 4 than winning the FA Cup.

emc2

What happens if one of the top 3 win it, does it go to 4th place team or the runners up. You could have a case where the top 3 get to the semi final stage and the like of Norwich (or another championship team) get into the champions league cause they got to the semi final of the cup.

Does any other country have a set up like this for the Champions League?

PHB

It's good and bad.
Good because it would make the league a lot more exciting. Now the 3rd and 4th place team know they are gona be in the CL and really take their foot off the pedal, that'd be nice. Also it would make the cup much more exciting.
Bad because I don't think a cup is the best test of skill, so I think the person who comes 4th in the league deserves it more than the team who might get a nice cup run going. As the saying goes, the league table doesn't lie.

Mitch Connor

B-K-DzR wrote:

1995! :eek: :eek:

Everton. Didnt realise it had been that long.

Nope - 1999-2000 season, Chelsea won the FA Cup, having finished 5th that season.

sweetie

Can't see it happening. If smaller teams get in surely it would devalue the European cup. I'd rather see Arsenal in the EC than Man City or Villa.

emc2

@ PHB

totally off the point but if Chelsea win the league by on point (ie the one they got off liverpool at the weekend) will you have to change your signiture again?

PHB

Maybe To be honest, I miss the old sig, none of these complications and if he had stayed he'd be playing and scoring right now, so my sig would have been true

Hyzepher

If they are going to provide a path to the CL via the Fa Cup then it should go to the team that progressed the furthest in the Cup that doesn't already have a CL place.

However, this could cause the situation were the FA Cup finalists are 1st & 2nd in the league and neither of the two losing semi-finalists are 3rd. They would have to play-off for the remaining CL place.

If the FA do go down this line they will probably only give the FA Cup winner a CL place if they finish outside the top 3 in the league - otherwise they will revert back to 4th place as usual. This in my opinion will have no effect on the motivation of the big clubs - other clubs are already motivated for the FA cup as they consider it the only major trophy they have a realistic chance of winning.

Andrew 83

I think it's a good idea. Give it to the runners up if the winners have already finished in the top 3 and if both finalists have then give it to 4th in the league - same way the UEFA cup place is currently allocated.

Mr Alan

Think its better that the 4th place team gets it to be honest.

Devalue the champions league imo to have a team who could well have finished in the bottom half of their league in it.

Champions league is about seeing the best teams in Europe playing.

Thinks that wat we get with the current format at the moment.

patmac

PHB wrote:

It's good and bad.
Bad because I don't think a cup is the best test of skill, so I think the person who comes 4th in the league deserves it more than the team who might get a nice cup run going. As the saying goes, the league table doesn't lie.

You sound like Mourinho there, does he not say that about the Champions League, which is a cup competition after all? All you have to do is look at last years Final two teams way off the pace in their own domestic league contesting the Final after 3 knockout rounds.
Personally i think it would be good, but would only make it interesting if the runners-up ie non top 3 team were allowed to enter. I always thought that the media ie Sky always made a big deal about 4th place in the premiership it meant they could have a far more interesting 'Season Finale(hate that word)' to keep subscribers tuned in for another week.

smackbunnybaby

excellent excellent idea!
the FA Cup might mean something again.

patmac

millersangel wrote:

Think its better that the 4th place team gets it to be honest.

Devalue the champions league imo to have a team who could well have finished in the bottom half of their league in it.

Champions league is about seeing the best teams in Europe playing.

Thinks that wat we get with the current format at the moment.

Er it used to be the Champion's only league in the old days(get's pipe and slippers out). It's all about spicing up the FA Cup and to give the minnows like Spurs, newcastle etc a chance to break the domination of the top 4 who help remain dominant because of the money they recieve from the CL, can't be bad.

iregk

I don't think it should happen to be honest. Back in the day the winners of the fa cup went into the Cup Winners Cup. Now out of the 3 european competitions this was the 3rd ranked. So why give the winner of what used to get you into an almost nothing Euro Cup a place in the most prestigious?

In response to those who say but what about a 4th place team getting into teh CL. Yes I'm dead against that as well. In my opinion we should do the CL the way it was in the past. League winners only and the Uefa for the rest.

PHB

patmac wrote:

You sound like Mourinho there, does he not say that about the Champions League, which is a cup competition after all? All you have to do is look at last years Final two teams way off the pace in their own domestic league contesting the Final after 3 knockout rounds.

Well with teh CL the argument is much closer.
Cup compo with better teams or league with worse teams.
But when you have a choice between league with same teams as a cup with same teams, everybody picks the league. It's why people always would choose the premiership over the FA Cup.

Mr Alan

I know it used to be the champions only, but when that was the case, it was a weaker competition. Its better now in its current format.

DSB

I don't think anything could change. To see Milwall in the Champions League (which technically would have happened a few years ago) would have been nothing short of a joke.

smackbunnybaby

DSB wrote:

I don't think anything could change. To see Milwall in the Champions League (which technically would have happened a few years ago) would have been nothing short of a joke.

the reason teams like Millwall got to the final was because the FA Cup was being devalued by many teams.
knowing that there is a possibility of CL Football should make the FA Cup far more interesting in my opinion.

it has been pointed out that it is primarily the big teams that usually win the FA Cup anyway but the promise of such a massive prize should in my opinion make teams like Reading, Spurs , Everton really step up a gear and go all out in the FA Cup.

ah yes - "The Magic of the FA Cup"

i cant wait for those Football Focus shows where they go to little Marlow Town and talk to the Striker/Butcher about the up and coming match against Man Utd and how now CL representation lies ahead!

~Rebel~

Id definately be in favour of this. Since the winners are usually in the champions league anyway most years it wouldnt change much but would have the added bonus of making the cup far more interesting.

What I'd love to see would be; League winner gets automatic champs league spot. FA Cup winner gets automatic champs league spot. 2nd and 3rd both go into the qualifiers. If say, 3rd placed team wins FA cup, they go straight into the champions league and the 4th league team goes to the qualifiers with the 2nd league team. So this way theres still an incentive for the 2nd and 3rd placed teams to really fight it out in the cup to get the automatic spot.

Hyzepher

If they really want to push the Fa Cup as a serious competition the FA should give the winners a choice - enter a European competition (UEFA) or add 6 points to their league position.

godtabh

Would UEFA have approve this?

DSB

Hyzepher wrote:

If they really want to push the Fa Cup as a serious competition the FA should give the winners a choice - enter a European competition (UEFA) or add 6 points to their league position.

This is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever read anywhere.

~Rebel~

kearnsr wrote:

Would UEFA have approve this?

I think Uefa allow the various leagues to decide how the champions league spots are allocated. Holland for example have a crazy play off system to keep things interesting.

leninbenjamin

i think it's a good idea. it's getting really boring seeing the same old 4 teams get in it every year. besides a lot of the kinda midtable/pushing for UEFA cup clubs seem to not really put a full effort into the cup as they choose the league instead. it will spice up the cup, spice up the top of the table and it wont do any damage to the quality of football played in the CL itself. sure if it is a Milwall they'd have to through the qualifiers, so they'd have to show they are up to the standard. otherwise there would be surely some decent eastern european teams waiting in the wings who'd be up for it so it's not all bad imo.

The Sparrow

http://football.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2155420,00.html

I think some ppl may be a bit confused about this. Basically it is a UEFA idea not a FA idea. It is the brainchild of Platini and it would apply to other European domestic cup competitions as well.

Basically when Platini was elected as President of UEFA a lot of his support came from smaller countries as he promised to make it easier for their clubs to get into the Champions League by limiting the amount of places given to the bigger nations. Long story short, that was never going to fly so now that he is in office this is his compromise. Allowing the winners of European domestic cup competitions to qualify for the Champions League. Also I was wrong earlier when i suggested that if the winner of the domestic cup had already qualified for the Champions League then the place would go to the runner up of that competition. In fact what would happen is that in that instance the Champions League spot would revert back to league position.

I am all for this as I mentioned before. Some ppl have said that the League is a better baromoter of a clubs success and certainly I agree that finishing first is a greater accomplishment. But I don`t see how finishing fourth in the league is a greater accomplishment than winning the FA Cup?

Plus it would stop mid-level teams like Bolton or Newcastle or whoever resting their players for the FA Cup because they are concentrating on the European places in the League.And who cares if the occasional cup team gets into the Champions League? It is only the initial group stage and if a big club can`t either finish third or win the cup then they don`t deserve to be in the competition and certainly not because they have a bigger pedigree than the smaller clubs.

I`d be perfectly happy to watch the likes of Newcastle or Portsmouth in the Champions League and I cannot see how it would devalue a competition that already has lots of very average teams in it. Obvioulsy the cream will usually rise to the top for the knock out rounds.

Guy:Incognito

Tauren wrote:

Nope - 1999-2000 season, Chelsea won the FA Cup, having finished 5th that season.

I think they were going on the assumtion that the big 4 now is what we are working off, not a rotating big 4 depending on who actually finishes in the 4 positions. I mean Everton were not considered part of the big 4 in 2005. They just happened to finish 4th.

leninbenjamin wrote:

i think it's a good idea. it's getting really boring seeing the same old 4 teams get in it every year..

And what happened last time a different team got in? Everton got knocked out in the qualifiers, thats what.

smemon

great move imo..

not so much it would increase the stakes for the cup, but it could possibly knock arsenal or liverpool out of champions league football.

so 3rd place all of a sudden becomes valuable again, unlike last year when liverpool deliberately fielded a weakend side towards the end and didn't care about finishing 3rd or 4th :mad:

Guy:Incognito

smemon wrote:

not so much it would increase the stakes for the cup, but it could possibly knock arsenal or liverpool out of champions league football.:

So then we can make sure no English team wins it.

Zaph

Bring back the Cup Winner's Cup, I say!

I'd imagine that if this goes ahead there'll be some rule introduced so that the FA Cup spot in the CL will only go to the winners if they're in the Premier League. I can't imagine the FA wanting to hand a CL spot to a Football League club, in the unlikely event that one won the cup.

aidan24326

The important thing to remember here is that it's not just the top teams who have lost some interest in the cup, you could say that about most teams in the premiership. We've even seen teams in the bottom half of the table fielding weakened lineups in the cup so as to keep their best players for the premiership. Allardyce at Bolton treated the cup as little more than a nuisance.

With champions league football at stake this would not happen, and we would see teams like Everton,Tottenham,Villa,Newcastle etc. going all out to win the FA Cup rather than treating it as a second-rate competition like they currently do. Would be a shot in the arm for what used to be a great competition.