Any actual Americans out there to answer this one?

kevmy

I've been watching Friday Night Lights recently (both the film and the series) and I've been wondering: Is there really that much pressure on kids so young?

Basically they have the whole of the towns hopes and dreams on their shoulders yet they're only in high school (16-18 I'm guessing is the age group).

I have personal experience of the GAA and I know rivalries get out of hand sometimes but if the minor squad had the whole of the pressure on them and the whole parish watching them I reckon at least half of them would go crazy.

How are these kids expected to deal with that kind of pressure? Or is it just exaggerated?

Also is there no team in a town once they finish high school? Now I know the best of them will have gone to college and so on but surely a decent squad could be assembled from the ages of 18-35 in almost every town

Dodge

1) The book, film and tv show are based in texas. In texas it really is a religion. have you noticed that the NFL plays games on Thursday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday but not Friday? High school football is the reason

2) Nearly all kids who play high school football, will attend some college. Most 9with any talent)will continue to play there

3) There isn't the same tradition in the US as there is in europe for "sunday league" football where blokes of all standards play competively.

LuckyLloyd

kevmy wrote:

How are these kids expected to deal with that kind of pressure? Or is it just exaggerated?

Also is there no team in a town once they finish high school? Now I know the best of them will have gone to college and so on but surely a decent squad could be assembled from the ages of 18-35 in almost every town

The best comparison I can think of from an Irish perspective is the Leinster Senior schools Rugby cup. As far as I am aware, the percentage of players on a top senior schools team that are still in the game 5 years later is quite low.

I mean, to come down from playing in games that get national media attention and are played in front of thousands (Donnybrook; some highschool sportsground in Texas hosting most of a small town) to turning out on "pitch six" for your club seconds or the UCD U21's must be quite hard.

In soccer and GAA (even at the highest underage levels) the majority of club and school games will be played infront of few spectators and carry little general interest in the local community. As such, I would contend that the psychological transition to playing recreationally as an adult is not as difficult to deal with - hence why there is a thriving amateaur culture to those sports.

Additionally, kitting out an American football team carries a much more considerable level of investment in terms of money and organisation. Equipment is expensive; a greater medical prescence will be required - squads need to be larger. Getting 11 lads to the side of a pitch in boots isn't that difficult - throw on socks, shorts and a jersey of a similair colour and you are ready to go.

I know that you were looking for replies from a different source - but I couldn't resist!!

jdivision

Attendance record for a high school final in Texas is just under 50,000. I think that sums up just how much expectation and interest there is in it. In Texas, Louisiana and Alabama in particular it's just huge.
As for the GAA, there are huge pressures in certain parishes and there's a lot more than a few spectators given how many cars park all around my local ground for underage games let alone senior ones. A couple of years ago wasn't there a 14-year-old (?) kid beaten up in a senior team game. Playing on a senior club team at 14 is serious pressure.

I think insurance costs play a part in why there's relatively few recreational AF leagues. There's a lot of semi-pro ones though.

wyk

That's purdy much it. America is highly competitive in general. So when it comes to sports, it's all or nothing. There is a reason there is no such thing as a tie in any American sport. And you saw how crazy we went over the 2000 elections when there wasn't a clear winner as expected!

But as far as Football goes, it is insane. There is a tremendous amount of pressure to succeed. It is mind numbing, the call for victory. Here, second place is the first loser.

Here's the University of Texas at Austin's web page:

http://www.texassports.com/

Mack Brown, the coach in college, is paid an annual salary of 2.5 MILLION dollars. That alone should answer yer question RE: Football here...

"Texas boosts Mack Brown's salary

Texas football coach Mack Brown is now "Mo Money" Mack Brown, as regents approved a $390,000 pay raise (roughly 18 percent) following the Longhorns national championship season.

The increase will bump Brown's base salary to roughly $2.55 million per year, among the tops in college football. The salary bump follows Brown's $225,000 incentive for winning the Rose Bowl, Big XII Championship and other accomplishments. "

Y'all take care,

Wez

Dodge wrote:

1) The book, film and tv show are based in texas. In texas it really is a religion. have you noticed that the NFL plays games on Thursday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday but not Friday? High school football is the reason

2) Nearly all kids who play high school football, will attend some college. Most 9with any talent)will continue to play there

3) There isn't the same tradition in the US as there is in europe for "sunday league" football where blokes of all standards play competively.

PeakOutput

two a days on mtv gives quite a good insight to high school football and the pressures that are on the players re the season and getting into colelge. you need to leave aside all the boyfriend girlfriend crap and see through the fact they have a major sonsorship deal with nike.

daveirl

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tallaghtoutlaws

daveirl wrote:

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There is just nobody ever mentions them. The Amateur/Semi Pro leagues in the States are huge and have over 1000 teams spread across the 51 states o not alot but it is the same with every sport. The sad thing is they dont get press as these league are frowned upon by the pros including the NFL and MLB.

Just one example of Amateur League http://www.mid-americafootball.com/

daveirl

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tallaghtoutlaws

daveirl wrote:

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Very true but dont forget Sport in schools are huge over there. Every High School and College has some sort of sport going on. Where we have high capacity of Amateur sports they have a high capacity of sports in school. They have huge amateur baseball and and softball and soccer leagues all across america. And not true about the participation rate as you have 4 or 5 school in a 50 mile radius all with sports. Kids sports programs before high school are run in most states to prepare the kids for high school sports.

For my example I will use Claremont California. Tis about the size of Swords. Has 2 High Schools and 3 Colleges the 2 high schools have their own individual sports programs with up to 200 - 300 atletes/sports peeps. Then the College CMS has 3 Campuses all named differently but part of the same group. They are a D3 college and have up to 500 kids doing sports. Now D3 colleges dont get scholarships to play sport but their programs are huge.. Now take the towns surrounding them with the same setup a slightly bigger and then imagine California in the whole.

Simply put the Americans develop sports through schools more than we do. They are proper programs. Only when kid drop out of schools and colleges do they have to go Amateur/semi pro and there is enough teams for those kids to take up their sport if they wish to continue not all do as they start families at young ages etc etc.

wyk

Y'all have good points. We do have a minor league baseball that is quite full of very good players, which often are enlisted for a game or two in the majors when the 'real' players injure themselves too much, then they sit the bench

I played varsity tennis in College and High School. Been playing off and on since I was 8 or so. I am halfway decent. Though my kick serve tends to throw out my shoulder. I play with the local league in Austin and Round Rock areas. We meet 2-3 times a week. So there are organizations out there for those who wish for them.

Wez

tallaghtoutlaws wrote:

Very true but dont forget Sport in schools are huge over there. Every High School and College has some sort of sport going on. Where we have high capacity of Amateur sports they have a high capacity of sports in school. They have huge amateur baseball and and softball and soccer leagues all across america. And not true about the participation rate as you have 4 or 5 school in a 50 mile radius all with sports. Kids sports programs before high school are run in most states to prepare the kids for high school sports.

For my example I will use Claremont California. Tis about the size of Swords. Has 2 High Schools and 3 Colleges the 2 high schools have their own individual sports programs with up to 200 - 300 atletes/sports peeps. Then the College CMS has 3 Campuses all named differently but part of the same group. They are a D3 college and have up to 500 kids doing sports. Now D3 colleges dont get scholarships to play sport but their programs are huge.. Now take the towns surrounding them with the same setup a slightly bigger and then imagine California in the whole.

Simply put the Americans develop sports through schools more than we do. They are proper programs. Only when kid drop out of schools and colleges do they have to go Amateur/semi pro and there is enough teams for those kids to take up their sport if they wish to continue not all do as they start families at young ages etc etc.

PeakOutput

just in case anyone is interested a new series of two a days started today on mtv its on sundays at 630 and repeated during the week

kevmy

Interesting answers but I'm still wondering why?

Why no leagues after school college, even if guys play in college they're finished at 23/24?

And I know there is additional cost from a soccer league for example but where do the schools get the money? Surely a bit of fundraising could get adequate equipment.

Also is the question of pressure on the high school kids never raised?

As for attendances at most GAA senior games you could easily get a couple of thousand. And the catchment area would be a lot smaller in Ireland than the US.

Just think it's strange is all. I would liken playing sport to a drug once you start playing you keep going as long as you can. I can't imagine players of many sports over here stopping at 18-24 years old.

PeakOutput

kevmy wrote:

I can't imagine players of many sports over here stopping at 18-24 years old.

unless you are talking about the really good players i completely disagree with almost everyone i know stopped playing their respective sport at around 17/18 and have not taken up anything to replace it. the only exception to this would be the players who are very very good(inter county/international level).

wyk

The good ones turn pro, or go to the minors. If you are not good enough to be picked up after college, you generally expect it, and have made plans accordingly.

But as far as leagues go, most Americans work 50hrs + a week, may have kids, etc. etc. So leagues are for the real advocates, or for the retired. I am one of the youngest men in my league...

Bear in mind, though, that minor league baseball is HUGE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_league_baseball

Every major city, and some small ones has a team or two. The time and work involved are considerable, though. As sometimes you must travel long distances to play other teams.

Wez

PeakOutput wrote:

unless you are talking about the really good players i completely disagree with almost everyone i know stopped playing their respective sport at around 17/18 and have not taken up anything to replace it. the only exception to this would be the players who are very very good(inter county/international level).

daveirl

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wyk

Oh, I'm getting it.

I was pointing out that professional(and minor league is professional) sports in America are everything. We have virtually nothing for amateurs compared to about any other nation outside of college and high school sports(which are funded as much, or more so, by private citizens and corporations as the state). Sad, really. But that's how the US is geared. There is hardly any private funding, and very little state funding outside of the academic realm, for anything that isn't high profile, and that doesn't earn capital or at least break even. The only sports that receive some funding, or have a huge influx of private funding are those geared towards the Olympics or motorsport. As you can see by the U.S.'s performance in the last few Olympics(especially in Basketball), that when they allowed professional athletes to compete, that our amateur programs pale by comparison to our professional ones.

Hell, even much of our professional motorsports struggle to make a profit at all but the highest levels. The rest are either funded by team owners, or perish, or operate at a loss because it is basically a hobby(drag boats and many motorcycle events come to mind).

The US really is a capitalistic as they say. And I do wholly believe we, as a people, pay dearly for the lack of a state that truly cares for it's people and culture, and set it ahead of profits. But mention anything that remotely smells of socialism and you will literally be run out of town at gun point.

Wez

daveirl wrote:

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kevmy

wyk wrote:

Hell, even much of our professional motorsports struggle to make a profit at all but the highest levels. The rest are either funded by team owners, or perish, or operate at a loss because it is basically a hobby(drag boats and many motorcycle events come to mind).

The US really is a capitalistic as they say. And I do wholly believe we, as a people, pay dearly for the lack of a state that truly cares for it's people and culture, and set it ahead of profits. But mention anything that remotely smells of socialism and you will literally be run out of town at gun point.

Wez

Most professional soccer teams in Europe either make very little profit or are in debt. The same is true to a lesser extent in Rugby where teams have had to be cut or amalgamated to survive.

However in the amateur leagues teams fund themselves.
Gate receipts, membership subscriptions, community project funds, local small industry and plain old fundraising (lotteries, dances etc.)

As regards the number of teams there are over 2,500 GAA clubs in the country.
http://www.gaa.ie/page/the_club.html
Since some of these play both football and hurling and thats not counting universities and schools you can easily say that there are 4,000 GAA teams in the country.

Not sure on the numbers for rugby or soccer but there is probably another 2,000 clubs between those sports.

All this in a country with 5 milliion people

wyk

Yeah - it all boils down to what sort of time and effort the people want to make at the amateur levels. But as jdivision pointed out, the costs alone for AF are prohibitive at the amateur level. That, and getting over 2 dozen people together(offense and defense, plus punters, a couple quarterbacks, etc.) per team is really a logistical nightmare. It just could never happen. Unless there's money involved, you won't see much of a trend in amateur AF. Then there's the fact ya need a pitch dedicated to AF and a time spot that works for everyone.

Then there's the fact few people can afford a dedicated physician to keep them on the pitch once a month, let alone 2-4 weekends a month. AF is not at all easy on the body. Few Americans want to endure such abuse and risk serious injury at the amateur level. Why? There's plenty of football on TV, and it's much easier to BBQ than when yer running on a field.

Now if ya wanna talk tennis, there's loads of local clubs that play each other weekly.

Wez

kevmy wrote:

Most professional soccer teams in Europe either make very little profit or are in debt. The same is true to a lesser extent in Rugby where teams have had to be cut or amalgamated to survive.

However in the amateur leagues teams fund themselves.
Gate receipts, membership subscriptions, community project funds, local small industry and plain old fundraising (lotteries, dances etc.)

As regards the number of teams there are over 2,500 GAA clubs in the country.
http://www.gaa.ie/page/the_club.html
Since some of these play both football and hurling and thats not counting universities and schools you can easily say that there are 4,000 GAA teams in the country.

Not sure on the numbers for rugby or soccer but there is probably another 2,000 clubs between those sports.

All this in a country with 5 milliion people

daveirl

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wyk

It goes a long ways to describing our cultures, doesn't it? There is no way in hell you are gonna get 24 epople to work together on an amateur level in football. Hell, my doubles partner in tennis didn't show up last week. I had to play with a woman nearly twice my age whom I was deathly afraid would collapse on the court and require immediate medical attention.

America is quite often "All or nothing" when it comes to competition. A 'watered down' version of AFL simply is not any fun to take part in, or watch for most Americans. This one included. When I was young, I played. But at my age(38) even a moderate hit means I am not playing tennis for a week, and may lose a bone or two. AF is funded well up through the college level so people at 19-26 or so can enjoy it if they are good enough. This ole man preferred tennis to play, football to watch. And I am no slouch at 6' 220#. But at work, I am the smallest guy.

Even so, remember that health insurance here is quite expensive when you have no injuries. Once you start to injure yourself, the costs go up per month. Why risk it when good health insurance already costs $180/mo to start if your employer offers it, and $300 or more if you buy it independently, and you could be dropped at any time...or laid off, etc. You can get crappy health insurance, but that's a sacrifice most won't make.

So, it takes time, materials, money, scheduling, commitment, dedication, and sacrifice. Few non-professionals here love the game that much. It's so much easier to sit in your chair, drinking a Bud, and resting a plate of hotdogs on yer fat belly with the NFL on.

You do make a point of the different levels. I was looking at one of the semi-professioanl IAFL scores where they had played an American college team I had never heard of. The score was 67-0. Now, I dunno how much better in shape those college kids were, or how much steroids or growth hormones they were taking(and they WERE taking them) or what sort of pain killers they used(and they DO use them). But I would bet when the score looks like that the leagues are quite a bit different, but the coaching is also different. No football team will do well unless you have great coaches and strategy. As I said, a lot of time an effort. Americans just don't bother at the amateur level.

Pass the Stella, would ya bud?

Wez

daveirl wrote:

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daveirl

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wyk

One of the things I do enjoy about Ireland is the comeraderie. Though some teams have it here, it is basically lost once we form families. Once yer buds are married off, you are lucky to see them a couple times a month. Otherwise, they spend all their time with their family and extended family. There are many reasons for this effect, many of which are inappropriate to discuss here, but it is what it is. For someone single at my age, even though I am basically a loner, there's a void where my friends once stood. I refuse to replace it with a family just yet.

The protestant work ethic and 'fun' ethic in the states have never much agreed with me. Yet I do not like the city scene here so much as the pub scene in Ireland. I think that says a lot about America. A repressed country that seems to substitute violence for other forms of enjoyment like drinking and being in pub - both of which are heavily frowned upon here in the south. It may be different up North, and I have been to a few bars there, but the conversation was certainly lacking.


Wez

daveirl wrote:

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