Dublin City Triathlon 07

hardCopy

So, any other Boards heads there today? How did everyone get on?

This was my first olympic distance tri, after 1 sprint distance last year, I found it a big step up so was quite happy to finish in about 3:40. (on my stopwatch, had to leave in a hurry)

cunnins4

I was there too, my second year doing it. Found it MUCH tougher than last year. The wind was a killer on the bike, and the bike course was about 3k longer i think. I clocked it as 42k whereas last year i clocked 39. Run was fine, a bit silly in a couple of places though. T1 was a joke. The transisition setup itself wasn't too bad i thought. And my final moan of course is the current in the liffey was a beatch!

Still great craic though. I finished in 2:58, which i'm happy enough with, but hoped to do better. I was wearing the TCD Tri colours. Did you see anyone else wearing that gear?

hardCopy

Not sure, what colours do they wear?

Yeah, the current was horrible, the last 100m or so facing upstream was soul destroying.

The wind was tough alright, especially the first half of the out-and-back on the bike course. My speedo is kapput so I couldn't check the distance.

Didn't really give myself enough time to train this year so was really suffering on the run, that loop around by the cricket grounds was a nasty surprise.

I suppose there's always gonna be something you don't expect and I did enjoy the whole day. Will have to find a club now for next season and get myself a decent training plan.

cunnins4

It's a blue white and red top with TCDTRI on it. Ah well, i was just wondering because i don't know any of the guys from the club as i only joined and got the gear, but have yet to train with them. Like yourself, i'll be training with the club next year to get myself in better shape.

back to bed for me. I'm in bits.

edit: oh yeah, and the bird giving out the gatorade at the end of the run with the massive jabs was quality! :-)

hunnymonster

cunnins4 wrote:

edit: oh yeah, and the bird giving out the gatorade at the end of the run with the massive jabs was quality! :-)

Glad you've got your priorites right.

The TCD kit is quality. Very comfy with no rubbing in the wrong places.

WEll done to everyone who took part yeasterday. I was entered but couldn't go in the end because of family stuff.

Phil01

Nice race...
The Swim was very tough since im a crap swimmer the current didnt help at all...!
The bike was nice and easy, saw one guy had a nasty fall on his bike at the potholes as you go around a bend... The run was good too that hill was a suprise...!!
I finished 3:05 though much more room for improvment on the swim!!

daymobrew

cunnins4 wrote:

I clocked it as 42k whereas last year i clocked 39.

I was marshalling on the main road, telling everyone to move to the right where the road was split into two. I swore I saw a few people more than 5 times.

FYI: There are over 200 photos on flickr in the 3D Tri club account.

cunnins4

daymobrew wrote:

I was marshalling on the main road, telling everyone to move to the right where the road was split into two. I swore I saw a few people more than 5 times.

FYI: There are over 200 photos on flickr in the 3D Tri club account.

Looking at the results i saw a few people only completed 4 laps, and it would seem that a few only did one lap on the run as otherwise there were about 20 world record breakers for the 10k!!! one guy was clocked at 13mins for the swim i think!

Were you guys recording how many laps people did, or was it computerised? I saw the ambulance coming around the back of the course-was anyone hurt? Saw a good few people getting punctures too, so annoying.

I'll have to take a look at the photos when i get home. Were marathonphotos.com or the like covering it either?

interested

not sure about the swim but my final chip reading at the end wasnt registered. As a result I think my run time was around 26 minutes which I can assure you will never be possible. Finished at 2.55.11 so can work out my second lap myself. Good race. Won wave 3 by about a minute which is my strongest event. Run from swim to transition a killer (start of things to come), as was transition on a hill and the bike headwind. First olympic distance outing so happy with the time.

daymobrew

cunnins4 wrote:

Were you guys recording how many laps people did, or was it computerised? I saw the ambulance coming around the back of the course-was anyone hurt? Saw a good few people getting punctures too, so annoying.

We weren't recording laps at our location but the news item on Triathlon Ireland says that bike splits will be in the final results, later in the week. I don't know how they were recording these splits.

More photos were linked to from that news item.

I don't know of any accidents. I did see two people with punctures.

trinewbie

Hey all - That Gatorade bird with the huge titties was savage- I was convinced they were fake, was temted to have an old squeeze

along with others on this thread It was my first olympic distance after 2 sprints earlier in the summer also...finished in 2hrs 47, was quite pleased but the swim was not nice at all, and the last 100 after the 2nd turnaround was miserable!I was out of the water in 36- note to self: learn to 7 mins accrding to my watch - note to self: learn to swim over the winter...

Actually did anyone do Athlone ?That was THE HARDEST SWIM EVER, was glad to finish the swim with so many others being dragged out

cunnins4

trinewbie wrote:

Hey all - That Gatorade bird with the huge titties was savage- I was convinced they were fake, was temted to have an old squeeze

along with others on this thread It was my first olympic distance after 2 sprints earlier in the summer also...finished in 2hrs 47, was quite pleased but the swim was not nice at all, and the last 100 after the 2nd turnaround was miserable!I was out of the water in 36- note to self: learn to 7 mins accrding to my watch - note to self: learn to swim over the winter...

Actually did anyone do Athlone ?That was THE HARDEST SWIM EVER, was glad to finish the swim with so many others being dragged out

that's one of the best first posts i've ever seen, and you beat my time by 11 mins ya pr1ck! Well done! Didn't do Athlone, hoping to not be working weekends for next year's season so i'll be able to do more.

I too am hoping to improve my swimming over the winter. I trained really hard at front crawl but stupidly didn't do any open water trials before the day which led to me feeling really uncomfortable on the day and I reverted back to my old reliable breaststroke, which left me 4mins SLOWER than last year as I trained almost exclusively doing breaststroke and got out of the water in 36mins last year. I'm going up to a swim coach today after work to get some help.

And they were real, okay!

trinewbie

what swim wave were you in?

Yeah I made sure I had a few open water swims, usually head out at least once a week to killiney beach or seapoin and do a good 1.5 - 2k.they make a massive differnce on race day..

Once race left for me this season - Carolin Keaney Memorial in mullingar, cant wait

I think coached swim sessions are the way forward for improving technique..

cunnins4

I'm doing the loughrea Olympic myself. Looks like a hilly b@stard so i'll be off up howth hill a lot for the next few weeks! I was in wave 4-hehe, last year i was in the last one and got a stupid pink hat. No pride in wearing that! Green this year - oh yeah!

Was this your first season?

trinewbie

Couldnt deal with a pink hat, oh man.....that gatorade chick would not even glance at ya wearing it..the green has way more street cred!

Yeah it was my fisrt season alright, Got sick of being a lazy w@nker at the end of january.And a mate who does sub 2,25 tri's bet me €100 that I couldnt finish a sprint tri in less than 1houe 20 this season...Bear in mind -couldnt run 2k, could only swim 2 lenghts, could bike for about 20 mins max....Had to pove the pr!ck wrong

So it went like this -
Started training proerly @ start of Feb...weight 14.75 stone.oh dear.
Registered for Athy and trained like a motherfugger..and oh yes what a finish, 39th place in the sprint race in a time of 1hour 18mins, I was 100 quid richer!.

Weight now is down to under 12 stone..trained like a motherfugger and im completly addicted now...its like a bug.

What season are you in yourself? did you do any of the duathlons in phoenix park?Great craic..

cunnins4

trinewbie wrote:

Couldnt deal with a pink hat, oh man.....that gatorade chick would not even glance at ya wearing it..the green has way more street cred!

Yeah it was my fisrt season alright, Got sick of being a lazy w@nker at the end of january.And a mate who does sub 2,25 tri's bet me €100 that I couldnt finish a sprint tri in less than 1houe 20 this season...Bear in mind -couldnt run 2k, could only swim 2 lenghts, could bike for about 20 mins max....Had to pove the pr!ck wrong

So it went like this -
Started training proerly @ start of Feb...weight 14.75 stone.oh dear.
Registered for Athy and trained like a motherfugger..and oh yes what a finish, 39th place in the sprint race in a time of 1hour 18mins, I was 100 quid richer!.

Weight now is down to under 12 stone..trained like a motherfugger and im completly addicted now...its like a bug.

What season are you in yourself? did you do any of the duathlons in phoenix park?Great craic..

I didn't know they were on in the evening until the last one and missed that-i'll be doing them next year though. Definitely.

You trained hard, I on the other hand didn't really. Tried hard on the swim, but really didn't do much else-i've been working 7 days a week, the girlfriend's been on my back about not seeing her much, so training really took the sidetrack. I did the dublin tri last year because she was going away for the summer and I needed something to occupy myself (aside from palmela!). I suppose this is my second "season" although i only managed 1 tri last year and am only doing 2 this year-all olympics though, so i'm proud of that. Next year i'm hoping to do many more and actually do some work over the winter. I didn't lift a finger until june this year!!!

trinewbie

The duathlons are really good for guaging your fitness, You can see you times drop each month. The course is seriosly quick and there is always somebody the same level as you to have a good battle with on the bike.

Where did you find a swimming coach???let us know how you get on coz I will be looking to get one myself over the winter to try and sort the stroke out..

I know what you mean bout the girlfriend and "you not spendin enough time...bla bla bla bla". I sorted this particular problem by doinbg a lot of my training before work and on my lunch to try minimise the impact...Although saturday was usually a day for a bollockin coz id sleep in and spend the whole day cycling aorund dublin/ wicklow mountains, sally gap etc...

next season I plan on doing a load more tri's aswell, but the number one goal is to finish the Hell of the West in a decent time

interested

Similar to the duathlons but something that would help inexperienced open water swimmers are the aquathlons run but 3dtri team. See the right hand side column of their site for details.
There were 3 this summer, one each month June, July, August - a 750m swim along the bull wall followed by a 5k run. Pretty well organised and a good fitness test during the summer - for the princely sum of 10 euro. I did the august one on one of the only real Summer evenings we've had this year.

While I think of it ...
My advice with regard to swimming lessons is it shouldnt take more that 3/4 lessons (one a week) to sort stroke out. When learning, a strong leg kick is the key to getting you moving forward as you perfect your arms - and you wont have the bouyancy associated with a wet suit in the pool so beware. It'll feel differently.

There's loads of advice / misadvice about too little or too much leg kick when swimming in open water. An below is just my opinion - I mispent a childhood in pools and doing open seaswims and still am slow to offer anyone advice but hey ho ...

My comment is there's no silver bullet: the only thing Id say is that be comfortable lifting your head to look forward every 8/16 strokes to sight for direction. This is something that can be put to one side until your swim times in the pool are dropping. But it ALWAYS helps in open water swims. Currents, tides, following the feet of someone who isnt sighting can cost you serious time and energy in the water. Even if you're tucked onto someones feet its worth sighting just in case.

Some others I thought of
kick hard and swim fast to get into clear water during en masse starts since you'll get into your stroke sooner and start relaxing. If this means kicking your legs then there ya go. Nervous energy is a serious waste so think of something really bad you had to deal with in the past and consider swimming 1500m or 750m as no big deal. Even if it is, try to surpress the anxiety - it wont help you swim any faster or help you control your breathing.

The stronger your arm stroke, the more you'll just use your legs for balance during the swim, ensuring no lactic acid build up in the big muscles in your legs. The word 'balance' and swimming might not immediately fit together - but - without getting in they're way - stand in front of a free style swimming coming towards you - they roll gently either side when pulling their hands from out straight down and through their hips - maintaining this powerful roll is only really possible by maintaining a good kick - it may not be visable or throwing white water up but the kick is there believe me.

Kick as hard as you can over the last 100m to get your legs ready for the run - coming out of a river or lake is one thing but coming out of a choppy sea and expecting to start running is a totally different game. Ive had bouts of seasickness and have literally crawled out - take your medicine, take your time, let you legs adjust. Kicking helps this.

Anyhow - just some advice - prefer to see you guys getting value for your money when getting some coaching

cunnins4

^^thanks for that. I'll definitely try to do the aquathlons next summer so: they'd be like a good brick session except from water to run instead of bike to run. Haha, i'll be a busy boy!

I went to the swim coach yesterday. She seems to know what she's talking about. Unfortunately I have to join Northwood Leisure Center to keep up lessons with her, so that's the end of that as I'll be getting free pool & gym in college for the year (where i'm a member already).

My only problem is that i've been told varying things about head position, hand entry and kicking. Interested above is talking about a strong kick. I went to lessons in the Markievicz pool in town and the instructor was on about needing a really strong kick. Last night the coach said over distance I only need my kick to be light ~2 beats just to maintain balance. Then onto head position: last night she said I should only have my face in the water. The instructor in the Markievicz said i should have most of my head in the water and only be looking 2 tiles ahead in the pool. I bought the Total Immersion book on triathlon swimming, and he says only a sliver of a swim cap should be able to be seen from the surface. Other websites say to look straight down. They're all different. The only thing i'd say is the guys I see lashing out laps in the pool only cover their face and nothing more, and looking at videos of Ian Thorpe he seems to do the same as do the rest of the pros so I think the coach last night was right. The next is hand entry. The coach last night said my hand should be entering right next to my other hand, whereas the Total Immersion book and the coach in Markievicz said it should be entering at a steep angle next to my goggles.

Confusing stuff.

interested

to clarify what I meant by 'a strong kick' earlier
- when working on your stroke (includes: head positioning, arm movements above and below water, and hand entry etc) it makes things easier if you maintain a strong kick since forward momentum is maintained and you can concentrate on what your arms are doing.

head position is pretty important alright:
The general concensus is for the water level to be middle of your forehead and you're looking forward. This differs for all swimmers - holding perfect form for 100m or 200m is one thing - doing what thorpe or hackett does over and under the water for 1500m is another story. I swam with an american girl for a couple of years in the states that had the worst stroke and head position according to the books but won world and olympic gold medals for 400m f/s.

Hand entry:
Typically advice goes along putting one hand in (with fingers fully closed) close to your fully extended other arm/hand and sweeping all the way to and past your hip

Sorry about being fluffy with the details above, but drills those below - from http://www.mvm.org/workouts-drills.php might help describe it better than I. As I mentioned - having a good solid kick helps you when you're working through these drills - balance is important - if you get this from a 2 or 4 beat kick then ...


Catch-Up Drill
When swimming Full Catchup freestyle, pull with one arm at a time and touch your hands in a streamlined position out front between each alternating arm stroke. Keep your extended hands about 8 inches under the surface of the water for improved body position. Concentrate on swimming in the front quadrant and keep a long, streamlined body line.

Fingertip Drag Drill
This drill is swimming normal Freestyle while dragging your fingertips along the surface of the water on the recovery. Focus on a high elbow recovery, which ensures proper hand and elbow position at your hand entry. You should also check your body position during this drill, focusing on good side-to-side rotation.

cunnins4

interested wrote:

to clarify what I meant by 'a strong kick' earlier
- when working on your stroke (includes: head positioning, arm movements above and below water, and hand entry etc) it makes things easier if you maintain a strong kick since forward momentum is maintained and you can concentrate on what your arms are doing.

head position is pretty important alright:
The general concensus is for the water level to be middle of your forehead and you're looking forward. This differs for all swimmers - holding perfect form for 100m or 200m is one thing - doing what thorpe or hackett does over and under the water for 1500m is another story. I swam with an american girl for a couple of years in the states that had the worst stroke and head position according to the books but won world and olympic gold medals for 400m f/s.

Hand entry:
Typically advice goes along putting one hand in (with fingers fully closed) close to your fully extended other arm/hand and sweeping all the way to and past your hip

Sorry about being fluffy with the details above, but drills those below - from http://www.mvm.org/workouts-drills.php might help describe it better than I. As I mentioned - having a good solid kick helps you when you're working through these drills - balance is important - if you get this from a 2 or 4 beat kick then ...


Catch-Up Drill
When swimming Full Catchup freestyle, pull with one arm at a time and touch your hands in a streamlined position out front between each alternating arm stroke. Keep your extended hands about 8 inches under the surface of the water for improved body position. Concentrate on swimming in the front quadrant and keep a long, streamlined body line.

Fingertip Drag Drill
This drill is swimming normal Freestyle while dragging your fingertips along the surface of the water on the recovery. Focus on a high elbow recovery, which ensures proper hand and elbow position at your hand entry. You should also check your body position during this drill, focusing on good side-to-side rotation.

I got a link to great videos of the above drills the other day. They're very helpful. I've had a mad week and yesterday was my only session in the pool, so i won't be able to try them out until sunday probably. I'll stick the link up when i get home and see what ya think of them. Another was "shark fin" where you swim on your side and raise your elbow up like a sharkfin and drag your finger tips along the water with your thumb at your arm pit, but don't actually stroke. It looks like a good one. Again, i haven't had a chance to try these out, so i'll let ya know how i get on. Cheers for the help man.

billyhead

Just off toipic on drills for swimming. I have completed two Olympic distance traithlons this summer and on each occasion I finished the swim segment of the race when I came out of the water I was fairly dizzy. Why is this?

interested

billyhead wrote:

Just off toipic on drills for swimming. I have completed two Olympic distance traithlons this summer and on each occasion I finished the swim segment of the race when I came out of the water I was fairly dizzy. Why is this?

Depends on where the swim was and on the individual.
I did a sprint distance tri in bray in medium chop and felt a little dizzy. I generally put it down to a real lack of sea legs and probably fitness at the time
If you got it after the swim saturday it was more than likely down to moving your head alot when breathing etc. If you breath every stroke - which I have a habit of doing when sprinting / tiring (towards the end on sat) then you're kneck / head will move about more. Im still struggling to get used to my wet suit so the restrictive movement may also contribute.
It may get easier but then again it may not. For me it never has, even when I swim without a wetsuit. Just a case of getting on and over it.

trinewbie

Interested - Good tips on the swimming...

Would you reccomend suing a pull buoy as part of a session?

I found it has helped me hugely with body and head position....

After reading total immersion i began to swim with only a small portion at the back of my head above the water line, it made a huge difference to my time, about 3 minutes over 1500 metres......

Ive also read that the only way to get faster is to do speedwork and drills. I think a lot of beginners, me included,want to make sure they can actually go the distance and a lot of training is focused on swimming lenght after lenght with no regards for the quality of technique...I reckon this is why my own technique is ****e, because I never focused on my stroke, I just hope that its not too late for me to change my stroke - Ive heard its like chanigin a golf swing; a long process

interested

trinewbie wrote:

Interested - Good tips on the swimming...

Would you reccomend suing a pull buoy as part of a session?
After reading total immersion i began to swim with only a small portion at the back of my head above the water line, it made a huge difference to my time, about 3 minutes over 1500 metres......

Ive also read that the only way to get faster is to do speedwork and drills. I think a lot of beginners, me included,want to make sure they can actually go the distance and a lot of training is focused on swimming lenght after lenght with no regards for the quality of technique...I reckon this is why my own technique is ****e, because I never focused on my stroke, I just hope that its not too late for me to change my stroke - Ive heard its like chanigin a golf swing; a long process

Yep - definitely - if you've any existing shoulder aches and pains it might not be the greatest idea - but it will certainly elevate your legs as if youre kicking putting your head and shoulders in the correct position.
Ive never had read the book you're referring to or any for that matter since I was lucky enough to start swimming very early and kept it up. Im sure the books can certainly clarify things you guys have heard or seen in pools. But once you're in the pool training, getting more feel in the water and lengthening your strokes whilst maintaining the technique you're times will improve. Taking 3 minutes off your 1500 time is great and an incentive to keep going - one of the reasons I enjoyed distance swimming was the leaps and bounds you could take with your p.b's

Just a comment on your point about training to improve (stroke, speed) - I hope I can communicate this clearly.

Getting you're stroke right / relatively energy efficient is important. Working when you're hands are under the water, finishing each stroke, maintaining a solid kick are clear objectives for SWIMMING.

Doing the distances in a pool the correct way (appropriate sets) and at the correct pace for your level of fitness at the time will drop your times dramatically when SWIMMING. But getting a relatively efficient stroke is important before increasing the distance.

For DISTANCE SWIMMING, 400, 800, 1500 its all about aerobic fitness and technique to swim fast and maintain energy over the course of the time spent swimming. Swim training sets are specific for this - longer distances may seem laborious but there's no shortcuts for this. 1500m in a pool does not always translate to same results in open water though Sighting is key and your ability to spot open clear water at the start of a triathlon or open water swim is imperative.

I know nothing of running training to a point but its clear on t.v at the moment the type of training 100m sprinters do compared to 10,000 metre runners. Its not all that different in swimming.

If you want to get sharper, faster then the sets are different - energy efficient techniques are important but more power supercedes it.

Depends on how much time you have in the water but a typical session for 1 hour might be:
Stretch before you get into the water - shoulder rotations, front, back and neck
400m warm up (lenghten, reduce as you feel yourself)
4*400m - with 30 .. 60 seconds rest between each depending on your level
2 min recovery (active, very slow up and down for 50m and grab some water)
4 * 200m - with 30 .. 60 seconds rest ...
1 min recovery (active, very slow up and down for 50m and grab some water)
4 * 100m - with 30 seconds rest (hydrate and get some air in)
1 min recovery
4 * 50m - 15 seconds rest between

100 m active rest
4 * 100 pull
4 * 50 catchup drill
4 * 50 ripple drill (as you bring your arm forward run your fingers on top of water - gets your elbows high)

Sprints if you've got the time - 6 * 25 or something - should be done with a high effort - longer rest - some stretching and out you pop.

There are a million and one variations on sets for distance swimming all depends on your levels - doing f/s all day every day can cause wear and tear such as tendonitus in shoulders so beware.

Anyhow - sorry for the lengthy posts - Ive spent about 10 years out of the water and only started back last spring - at one stage I was doing 11 sessions a week and over 60km in the pool. I only enjoy swimming in the sea so my advice, dont overdo it

If any of this is useful let me know or if you need advice on your sets ...

interested

trinewbie wrote:

think a lot of beginners, me included,want to make sure they can actually go the distance and a lot of training is focused on swimming lenght after lenght with no regards for the quality of technique...I reckon this is why my own technique is ****e, because I never focused on my stroke, I just hope that its not too late for me to change my stroke - Ive heard its like chanigin a golf swing; a long process

Sorry chief - all that and never mentioned changing your stroke
a) depends on how bad things are or inefficient it is - apart from 'as fast as possible' whats you're ideal time for 1500m open water leg 1 of an olympic tri ? grinding lengths out with a 'bad' stroke may seem fruitless but it may be fine with the addition of improved fitness to achieve your goal
b) changing up your stroke takes time, patience and persistence - it can be enforced by shoulder problems or can take coaches time to iron out. Be prepared to reduce you're training distances dramatically since its wise to slow it all down and get more feel from what you're doing.
c) As I mentioned in a previous post, for distance swimming it doesnt have to look pretty but if you can make it work for you to achieve you're personal goals then I know more than one former national and even an olypmic champion that have made stroke coaches cry with the times they've achieved. In saying that, getting energy efficient in your stroke soon is important, especially for triathlons.

cunnins4

Wow, thanks for all the help ^^ man, I'm sure plenty of us will benefit from such in depth advice.

One question-the coach i saw the other day said there's no point in trying to change your kick-she said it can't be done??? is that right? What's your opinion on fins for drills?

Maybe the latter half of this thread would be better in the swimming forum?

interested

cunnins4 wrote:

Wow, thanks for all the help ^^ man, I'm sure plenty of us will benefit from such in depth advice.

One question-the coach i saw the other day said there's no point in trying to change your kick-she said it can't be done??? is that right? What's your opinion on fins for drills?

Maybe the latter half of this thread would be better in the swimming forum?

No worries at all. As I said there are loads of differing opions on all of this stuff. Id prefer to hear that people were getting value for money and value for their time whilst in the water.

Maybe I dont fully understand the context of that statement with regard to not being able to change you're kick. IMHO Its entirely possible and I still change it up over the course of a swim - whether thats in the pool or open water.

If the context was the speed of the kick or no. of beats then ...
For example
Start of open water race, triathlon - 6 beat - breathing every 4 strokes with some sighting once I get out of the mess - 6 beats means six kicks for each arm stroke so its all going on quite fast and instinctively.
Into rythm and clear water - leg kick backed off to a 2 beat - Im concentrating on long strokes and sighting.
Last bit of a swim, faster kick - may go to 4 beat depending on situation - usually tired at this stage but it brings some blood back.

If the context was changing the dynamics of the kick .. more interesting
Theres an obvious up and down movement - usual tip is kicking from the hip rather than your knee - if you swim butterfly this rythm of downward and upward flick of the hips creates incredible drive and its one of the best feelings in the world when its working and you're moving up an open air 50m pool with rain on your back ... sorry, interlude but kick from the hip is the point - flexible ankles help so add ankle rotations during preswim stretches help.
Most people wont ever realise they're doing the following without underwater camera's - it doesnt feel like its going on but there are actually side kicks going on when swimming freestyle - part of the slight turn when breathing and contributes to a subtle roll. This subtle kick combined with a solid shoulder, elbow and hand entry and follow through maintains momentum in the water.

Ive no idea how this reads but its alot easier for me to visualise it - as I said you wont ever see what you're feet are up to without a video under the water but you'll 'feel' it - a roll, a breadth, a stretch, a pull. Its probably the reason why the top distance swimmers and some of the 200m specialists out there look like they're cruising - but they actually doing 52/53 for each 100.

If anyone wants to moderate and relocate fire ahead.

interested

interested wrote:

but there are actually side kicks going on when swimming freestyle - part of the slight turn when breathing and contributes to a subtle roll. This subtle kick combined with a solid shoulder, elbow and hand entry and follow through maintains momentum in the water.

Doh ! read this back and its probably confusing.
Freestyle kick is from the hip and up, down with hips flat on water.
When you turn to breath (one side or the other or both) you're hips will rotate slightly - opening towards the side you're breathing - its as you're hips are turned that you keep kicking (I called em side kicks which is a fumbling idiots approach to describing the kick). Turning to breath shouldnt stop you moving you're arms and your feet.
Also, putting in a sneaky butterfly kick off a tumble turn before a slightly deeper freestlye kick will propel you off the wall, get you back on top of the water quickly and confuse the hell out of people who went into a turn with you as to why you're now 2 foot ahead of Over 1500m in a pool, putting the hurt on someone close to you in that way each length demoralises the hell out em ... muahahahahahha

trinewbie

Thanks for the tips dude - your like a fecking swimming encylopedia
began trying to change my stroke yesterday evening and actually had some success with a new PB.....14' 42 for 750....not lighting but im happy. The great vision is to go under 28 mins for 1500 by next season.

Heres what I changd in my stroke
- Concentrated on long fluid strokes, accelerating through the stroke.
- head position breathing:making sure my head was staying in the water and the top of my head pointing at the pool wall that I was heading for...

unfortunatly my technique went to the dogs after about 1200 and I reverted to old habits but I presume its gonna take a while for muscles to adjust to and learn subtle changes in stroke

interested

trinewbie wrote:

Thanks for the tips dude - your like a fecking swimming encylopedia
began trying to change my stroke yesterday evening and actually had some success with a new PB.....14' 42 for 750....not lighting but im happy. The great vision is to go under 28 mins for 1500 by next season.

Heres what I changd in my stroke
- Concentrated on long fluid strokes, accelerating through the stroke.
- head position breathing:making sure my head was staying in the water and the top of my head pointing at the pool wall that I was heading for...

unfortunatly my technique went to the dogs after about 1200 and I reverted to old habits but I presume its gonna take a while for muscles to adjust to and learn subtle changes in stroke

Sounds as if you're well on your way chief. There are very few pools that have the facility and even fewer where they work but keep an eye out of a water level clock at the end of the pool - its easier to check your pace watching your split times for 100's right before you tumble. If you can get comfortable doing 1.15's for 100's and maintain that for 800 and then up to 1500 you'll be doing in or around 12mins and 21.45min respectively. Then you can start thinking about negative splitting