Useless alarm system

boa-constrictor

I recently had an alarm fitted to my house. It is next to useless in my opinion. There are no contacts or inertia sensors on my system except for one set on the front door. There is a PIR at the top of the stairs and a Pir in each room downstairs, no contacts on any doors or windows and nothing at all upstairs (bar the Pir I mentioned on the landing).

The installer told my wife she could part set it with 0#7 but it doesn't work and even if it did there is nothing to part set. I did a Fas alarm installation course a few years ago. Any alarm I have installed I put contacts with inertia sensors on all downstairs external doors and windows, inertia sensors only on upstairs windows (unless they are accessible from a flat roof in which case I put contacts too) a Pir in the hall and a PA in the master bedroom. I program it so when you put it on part guard, all the external doors and windows downstairs must be closed and are protected (as well as any accessible windows upstairs). I leave the Pir off the partguard so you can go downstairs at night for a glass of water without setting off the alarm. If anyone tries to break in the alarm will go off as soon as they start trying to jimmy the door or window.

The alarm this guy put in for me is useless as (with no sensors on external windows and doors) there is nothing to partguard (a substantial amount of burglaries occur when someone is at home) and if you had a break in the alarm wouldn't sound until the intruder was actually in the house rather than when he starts jimmying the door/window. Also if an intruder had access to a ladder he could break into each of the rooms upstairs through their respective windows and never be in danger of setting off the alarm (only Pir's downstairs).

This guy told me that this is standard type installation these days - anyone know if this is the case??

northdublin

was the house pre-wired?
ive come across a lot of new house pre wired with only the doors alarmed and a pir in each room. what he said was partially true, to aid with verification of a monitored alarm there must be 2 or more pirs in a house, this is of course up to the alarm company and the customer, not the gardai.having inertia contacts on all the windows can increase the risk of false alarms and some companys are moving away from instaling them, but imo if installed correctly in the right envoirment they dont cause a problem.
where ive come across a new pre wired house with no cables at the windows weve sold a wire free alarm to save the customer the hassle and mess of installing cables all over the house.
by the sounds of it you have a hkc system, we fit a lot of them and ill be stickin one in my own house soon, good system

boa-constrictor

The house was pre-wired.

Half the reason I have an alarm is so my wife will feel secure at night if I am away but this one doesn't help in that regard as you cant set it when your in the house. Given the high percentage of burglaries that occur when people are in the house, I think it is really stupid to be putting in half arsed alarms but I would say it is being driven by alarm installers competing on price. I hear that you can get an alarm put int for around €700 these days. If I was doing an alarm for someone I would have to charge atleast €900 for a proper job.

My last house had shock sensors on all the windows and doors and I never had a false alarm. They're fine as long as you set the sensitivity correctly. They are also very handy as they let you know if you have left a window open when your going out.

By the way I don't install alarms anymore since they started regulating the industry as it was just a part time lark me and Sparks friend did for while.

northdublin

well its down mostly to the builders and their sparks. they are the people who mostly pre wire the houses whether its done right or not.
the first thing we do when working on a pre-wired job is test the cabling, takes a few mins but well worth doin cause a lot of the wires are put in by electricians or other companys who know they will not be comming back to actually install the alarm.are you considering rewiring for inertia sensors or would you get a wirefree expander and alarm the windows that way.

boa-constrictor

Will probably go the wireless expander route.

Any recommendations for use with a HKC panel.

I would say that there are alot of mickey mouse wireless alarm systems out there.

Finneganjp

Question?
Any alarm engineers out there know if your allowed to run alarm cable in the cavity wall in the house.
boa-constrictor, if you have a timber frame house it should be easy enough to run cable in the cavity wall up to the attic?

Stoner

Many alarm systems are prewired for only PIR sensors. This is mainly due to the fact that there is no waiting around for the builder to fit windows etc. you can just first fix the PIR sensors and walk away, as detailed above most alarm call outs are due to inertia sensors.

It should be simple enough to part arm your system to give some level of night time coverage,

boa-constrictor

Stoner wrote:

Many alarm systems are prewired for only PIR sensors. This is mainly due to the fact that there is no waiting around for the builder to fit windows etc. you can just first fix the PIR sensors and walk away, as detailed above most alarm call outs are due to inertia sensors.

You would be unlikely to fit and wire the control panel until the house was finished anyway so whey not fit the inertia sensors/contacts then also. Its just laziness in my opinion and a means of making people think they are getting a bargain because the alarm can be done for €300 less when really they are getting €300 less of an alarm system. Its a curious way of economising. I might add that I didn't hire this guy. I'm renting this house having sold my last one and while I look for a site to build on. The letting agent hired him.

Stoner wrote:

It should be simple enough to part arm your system to give some level of night time coverage,

I could re-programme the panel to have some of the Pir sensors active on partguard but whats the point, some coverage is crap - what if the intruder comes in an upstairs window - which he is quite likely to do now that my alarm installer is telling anyone who asks that he doesn't put sensors upstairs. If I wanted a lucrative sideline I could just go around looking for SABB's which have this guys sticker on them - break into all such houses through the top windows and not go downstairs - the perfect crime.

Putting a few Pir's on Partguard is a sh*te of a solution as I want the alarm to go off when he tries to jimmy the window not when he's standing in my livingroom and likely to panic and assault someone.

An alarm system that alerts you just AFTER someone has broken into your house - Priceless!

northdublin

Finneganjp wrote:

Question?
Any alarm engineers out there know if your allowed to run alarm cable in the cavity wall in the house.
boa-constrictor, if you have a timber frame house it should be easy enough to run cable in the cavity wall up to the attic?

yes this is possible, but if there are cross beams it becomes a bit of a nightmare with a lot of cutting of plasterboard followed by a lot of filling and sanding.i would usualy go out of my way to conceal cabling but a lot of folks dont want you to start cutting and filling and are prepaired to have the cables surface mounted

oleras

boa-constrictor wrote:

You would be unlikely to fit and wire the control panel until the house was finished anyway so whey not fit the inertia sensors/contacts then also. Its just laziness in my opinion and a means of making people think they are getting a bargain because the alarm can be done for €300 less when really they are getting €300 less of an alarm system. Its a curious way of economising. I might add that I didn't hire this guy. I'm renting this house having sold my last one and while I look for a site to build on. The letting agent hired him.



I could re-programme the panel to have some of the Pir sensors active on partguard but whats the point, some coverage is crap - what if the intruder comes in an upstairs window - which he is quite likely to do now that my alarm installer is telling anyone who asks that he doesn't put sensors upstairs. If I wanted a lucrative sideline I could just go around looking for SABB's which have this guys sticker on them - break into all such houses through the top windows and not go downstairs - the perfect crime.

Putting a few Pir's on Partguard is a sh*te of a solution as I want the alarm to go off when he tries to jimmy the window not when he's standing in my livingroom and likely to panic and assault someone.

An alarm system that alerts you just AFTER someone has broken into your house - Priceless!

Why dont you go for pressure mats outside alltogether........its all down to how far you want them to go in the house and minamise false alarms with either birds striking the window, or worse still, some scumbag setting it off enough of times till you turn it off alltogether because you think you are getting false alarms.

I wonder if there is any statistic out there about how many homes are broken into with visible alarm boxes verses no alarms, 99% of home break in's would be opertunistic i think. If you are targeted for that Van Gogh, they are gona get it...... alarm or not !

boa-constrictor

oleras wrote:

Why dont you go for pressure mats outside alltogether........its all down to how far you want them to go in the house and minimise false alarms with either birds striking the window, or worse still, some scumbag setting it off enough of times till you turn it off alltogether because you think you are getting false alarms.

Obviously you are only suggesting pressure mats to insinuate that I'm being unreasonable wanting my alarm to go off when someone interfere's with the window. Why would someone pay for an alarm system and not expect it to work.

I don't know what all this talk is of false alarms. I have had an alarm for 4 years and not once have I had a false alarm. Alarms come with sensors which are designed to work and do work if the sensitivity is set correctly when programming. You have to set it less sensitive if you live near a busy road or in your case if you have large kamikaze birds in the area but this can be done easily. If you are having false alarms there is a reason for it - either its a fault, the sensitivity of the sensor needs to be changed or someone is setting it off. Either way it can be dealt with and turning off the alarm is hardly the answer.