Do I need to insure my apartment? and more

Hmm_Messiah

HI

I am not sure if this is the correct form , if not some one might suggest elsewhere ?

I own an apartment on which there is block insurance.

I eventually got the policy after several attempts form the management company.

THings I need to know :

will I then only need contents insurance or do I also need to insure the place in my own right ?

I have not paid the management fees for two yrs - as they won't give a break down of the costs - they have maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year ( these are apartments with a housing estate, i.e two storey apartments at end of block etc)

Having not paid the fees will that mean the insure might not be claimable if something happened?

Am I not entitled to a break down of fees ?



The upstairs apartment leaked into mine - a ceiling is very water stained etc . THe Management Co say that the landlord of upstairs will be in contac t (its a yr now) surely this is covered by the block policy ? or is it just external structure ?

And a general question on insurance - if I opt for contents insurance will that cover my laptop if I bring it on holidays ( I know there is a range of policies - but in general? )


I appreciate any help as i need this sorted. and i dunno if i'd get on a plane ( hate flying ) without dvds/lappie to distract me - seriously

cheers

Lister1

Lots of questions here and altough I'm no expert I can might be able to answer some of them as I am in a similar position to yourself.

will I then only need contents insurance or do I also need to insure the place in my own right ?

Contents only insurance does the job. Its alot cheaper then looking to insure the property(which is covered by your management fee.

I have not paid the management fees for two yrs - as they won't give a break down of the costs - they have maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year ( these are apartments with a housing estate, i.e two storey apartments at end of block etc)

Not paying the fees could affect your insurance. The maintenance of grounds fees seem ridiculous though. Must be a typo surly....

Am I not entitled to a break down of fees ?

Yes, there should have been a budget that was distributed at the annual agm. If you didn't attend this the management company should be able to provide this to you(and should also be able to provide minutes of what occured).

surely this is covered by the block policy ? or is it just external structure ?

Hard to tell. If it was a leaky pipe or something like that I would think that the insurance would cover the damage and hence be the responsibility of the management company to follow up on.

if I opt for contents insurance will that cover my laptop if I bring it on holidays

Not sure on this one but I would think that it wouldnt be covered as its not in the property.

You should try talking to you neighbours to see how there dealings with the management company are going. Sounds like they aren't doing a great job and are just fobbing you off on a couple of issues....


Edit: You should find some usefull information on the booklet and the report published by the NCA.

http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Campaigns/Property_Management_Companies/

Victor

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

will I then only need contents insurance or do I also need to insure the place in my own right ?

You need to check the policy and how the valuation was arrived at (did it include say fitted kitchens and equipment?). You should only have to insure things that you brought to the apartment. That might include some wall / floor finishes.

I have not paid the management fees for two yrs

Not a good start.

as they won't give a break down of the costs

Find the company number and go to www.cro.ie and try to get them that way.

they have maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year ( these are apartments with a housing estate, i.e two storey apartments at end of block etc)

It doesn't seem exorbitant - but how many is that spread across?

Am I not entitled to a break down of fees ?

Yes, but what breakdown do you ahve already if you know "maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year". Are you going too far?

Having not paid the fees will that mean the insure might not be claimable if something happened?

I don't know. You are best off talking to a insurance broker.

The upstairs apartment leaked into mine - a ceiling is very water stained etc . THe Management Co say that the landlord of upstairs will be in contac t (its a yr now) surely this is covered by the block policy ? or is it just external structure ?

I've heard different storeys. One of a resident who hired a dodgy plumber who caused €70,000 in damage that came out of the block insurance when it should have come out of the plumbers insurance.

I think you should contact a solicitor on this point. Waiting this long doesn't help.

And a general question on insurance - if I opt for contents insurance will that cover my laptop if I bring it on holidays ( I know there is a range of policies - but in general? )

It will vary from company to company and policy to policy. You will almost certainly have to declare it as a specific item.

I appreciate any help as i need this sorted. and i dunno if i'd get on a plane ( hate flying ) without dvds/lappie to distract me - seriously

DVDs are frowned upon on most planes. :eek:

Borzoi

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

H
I have not paid the management fees for two yrs - as they won't give a break down of the costs - they have maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year ( these are apartments with a housing estate, i.e two storey apartments at end of block etc)

The upstairs apartment leaked into mine - a ceiling is very water stained etc . THe Management Co say that the landlord of upstairs will be in contac t (its a yr now) surely this is covered by the block policy ? or is it just external structure ?

So you haven't paid the fees, yet you're looking for the Management Company and Agent to be hustling on your behalf:rolleyes:

Hmm_Messiah

Borzoi wrote:

So you haven't paid the fees, yet you're looking for the Management Company and Agent to be hustling on your behalf:rolleyes:

Erm - I'm not asking the management co & agent to hustle or anything close to it

I am expecting them to :

take phone calls - they don't ( the leak was going on for 3 weeks before I could even get to speak to some one )

respond to letters etc - they don't

the fire alarm (shared and a requirement under the policy ) was not activated until I answered their first invoice for fees asking if the insurance i would be paying was still valid seeing as the fire alarms were not connected ?

this and more lead me to not paying the full fees , which I under stand in this development is the norm


operate as they should under law
etc etc - don't really think thats asking too much

I part paid the first year as I got a break down of the fees - i din't pay the insurance part becuase of failled attempts to get policy details

|in 3 years that was the only breakdown of costs etc until this week when I got the Direcors Report etc - which was vague to say the list


11600.00 was towards the maintenance/ grass cutting of 9 apartments , which is I think 6 gardens (my garden is walle din and not included .


the leak was caused by the bath upstairs not being sealed properly as I understand it . I didn't wait a year dealing with it, I have spent a year trying to get a response ( the phone line was constantly " this customers mail box is full)

And I've not exactly refused to pay fees, whats the point I'll have to at some stage - I simply found they responded to correspondence when they thought they would get their money,or more so that they wouldn't.

for example something like 30 refuse sacks of household rubbish/food etc was stored int he common shed unit - presumably the tenants didn't want to pay the bag charges that apply here. I don't think its two unreasonable to see that as a problem that the management company should be dealt with

the invoice i recieved gave " fees" at 450, no breakdown, the accompanying statment showed an arrears for the same amount for which i never received an invoice.
Lister I couldn't get agm is this coming week, first one i've been notified of in 3 yrs

the smoke / co2 alarms are meant to be tested each year - i got a note asking for my keys to be left into a house so the electrican could do this , no letterhead on the note, no signature a piece of paper , could be from any one , seemed a crazy way to do things to me.

Keith C

Fairly brief here:

Yes you needs to insure contents yourself, contents only policy will be suffice.
You don't need to insure buildings as management company owns the buildings & will therefore insure them.
Water leaks due to pipes are covered under the property insurance. The damage was caused by a diff apartment so it doesnt matter if you did or didnt pay fee's, claim is caused by other apartment.
An "All Risks" policy covers items outside of the house i.e cameras, laptops.

Hmm_Messiah

thanks for that

stovelid

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

I have not paid the management fees for two yrs - as they won't give a break down of the costs - they have maintenance and grass cutting as 11 grand in a year ( these are apartments with a housing estate, i.e two storey apartments at end of block etc)

I assume that this is the overall cost and not your share?

I think you may have difficulty selling the place if you are in arrears to the management company.

The_Conductor

stovelid wrote:

I assume that this is the overall cost and not your share?

I think you may have difficulty selling the place if you are in arrears to the management company.

Yes, the management company is legally within its rights to slap an additional legal mortgage on your property, to include interest and any legal and administrative fees, which must be discharged prior to sale of the property. It can work out a lot more expensive in the long run.

S.

godtabh

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

Erm - I'm not asking the management co & agent to hustle or anything close to it

I am expecting them to :

take phone calls - they don't ( the leak was going on for 3 weeks before I could even get to speak to some one )

respond to letters etc - they don't

the fire alarm (shared and a requirement under the policy ) was not activated until I answered their first invoice for fees asking if the insurance i would be paying was still valid seeing as the fire alarms were not connected ?

this and more lead me to not paying the full fees , which I under stand in this development is the norm


operate as they should under law
etc etc - don't really think thats asking too much

I part paid the first year as I got a break down of the fees - i din't pay the insurance part becuase of failled attempts to get policy details

|in 3 years that was the only breakdown of costs etc until this week when I got the Direcors Report etc - which was vague to say the list


11600.00 was towards the maintenance/ grass cutting of 9 apartments , which is I think 6 gardens (my garden is walle din and not included .


the leak was caused by the bath upstairs not being sealed properly as I understand it . I didn't wait a year dealing with it, I have spent a year trying to get a response ( the phone line was constantly " this customers mail box is full)

And I've not exactly refused to pay fees, whats the point I'll have to at some stage - I simply found they responded to correspondence when they thought they would get their money,or more so that they wouldn't.

for example something like 30 refuse sacks of household rubbish/food etc was stored int he common shed unit - presumably the tenants didn't want to pay the bag charges that apply here. I don't think its two unreasonable to see that as a problem that the management company should be dealt with

the invoice i recieved gave " fees" at 450, no breakdown, the accompanying statment showed an arrears for the same amount for which i never received an invoice.
Lister I couldn't get agm is this coming week, first one i've been notified of in 3 yrs

the smoke / co2 alarms are meant to be tested each year - i got a note asking for my keys to be left into a house so the electrican could do this , no letterhead on the note, no signature a piece of paper , could be from any one , seemed a crazy way to do things to me.

Why do you expect the managment company to do anything for you if youhandt paid your fees in two years?

If I was them I'd tell you were to go and any benifits the manamgent company offer you I'd take them away untill all fees were paid.

Nothing in life is free so dont expect a free ride.

Hmm_Messiah

kearnsr wrote:

Why do you expect the managment company to do anything for you if youhandt paid your fees in two years? .If I was them I'd tell you were to go and any benifits the manamgent company offer you I'd take them away untill all fees were paid. Nothing in life is free so dont expect a free ride.

I thought I answered that, I don't expect them to do just anything for me, just what they are meant to.

e.g. A significant part of the fee is insurance - I have a water damaged ceiling which they said " should be dealt with by the other landlord". So you seem to be suggesting I just pay fees as they come due, and not expect any service for the charge?

And I might of confused things a little -I am there 3 years :
yr 1: got the fees request, a breakdown, and then a pro rata rate based on when the contract was signed - happily paid .
yr2 : no request for fees. how exactly do I then pay them ? (the Lease gives a five for 1st yr only)
yr3 : two months ago received invoices for this yr, and last year at same time, from a new management agency, no details of charges. I wrote requesting details of the charges before I paid them, I'd of thought that fairly reasonable.

the fees are 35.00 a month, its not an outrageous amount or anything. But the management co. seem beyond useless . I'm kind of surprised how it seems the consensus is more sided towards the mngmt co. - will have to think about it

a week before exams - water dripping from my ceiling - impossible to contact them
fire alarm goes off incessantly for hours because no details were supplied of who to contact or how to deactivate
I want to insure my stuff, insurance co says to confirm what insurance is already provided - I first try to find out two years ago- received a copy of the policy two weeks ago .
I'd not keep handing over money to any one else with such poor service

godtabh

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

I thought I answered that, I don't expect them to do just anything for me, just what they are meant to.

e.g. A significant part of the fee is insurance - I have a water damaged ceiling which they said " should be dealt with by the other landlord". So you seem to be suggesting I just pay fees as they come due, and not expect any service for the charge?

And I might of confused things a little -I am there 3 years :
yr 1: got the fees request, a breakdown, and then a pro rata rate based on when the contract was signed - happily paid .
yr2 : no request for fees. how exactly do I then pay them ? (the Lease gives a five for 1st yr only)
yr3 : two months ago received invoices for this yr, and last year at same time, from a new management agency, no details of charges. I wrote requesting details of the charges before I paid them, I'd of thought that fairly reasonable.

the fees are 35.00 a month, its not an outrageous amount or anything. But the management co. seem beyond useless . I'm kind of surprised how it seems the consensus is more sided towards the mngmt co. - will have to think about it

a week before exams - water dripping from my ceiling - impossible to contact them
fire alarm goes off incessantly for hours because no details were supplied of who to contact or how to deactivate
I want to insure my stuff, insurance co says to confirm what insurance is already provided - I first try to find out two years ago- received a copy of the policy two weeks ago .
I'd not keep handing over money to any one else with such poor service

You havent paid for the the right for them to carry out their services.

If you paid your fees you'd have a right to change the managment agent. Or at least try and change it. You dont have ther right cause you havent paid the fee

Noelie

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

And a general question on insurance - if I opt for contents insurance will that cover my laptop if I bring it on holidays ( I know there is a range of policies - but in general? )

You'll want unspecified contents, it will cover things that are lost/stolen when outside of the apartment.

I found 123 very cheap for contents only insurance, but I'm not sure what they are like to deal with if you need to make a claim.

ocad

you need to pay the management fees to be able to make a claim of their policy, also you shoulg contact a private assessor to look after your claim, they dont charge for the first initial visit, and their fee is then buried into your claim, Look in the golden pages under the section assessors and adjusters

Hmm_Messiah

Just to update on some of the replies etc

the new agent confirmed that the insurance policy is with the company not any individual and so i can't be removed for nonpayment

he confirmed the leak is definitely under the insurance cover and will pursue same

we also removed the directors , and elected new ones (including myself)

of the 80 properties , there was on average 1 yrs fees not paid by every one (of course some had paid in full ) .

We agreed to pursue the arrears but not necessarily impose any new fee. its in the lucky situation of having quite an amount of accumulated funds
(which were sitting in a current account, the agent agreed to immediately move half to a deposit account)

he is also going to pursue the 11500 figure for maintenance (he thinks they might of applied the costs for the whole estate not just the apartments )
Of course i could be deceived but the agent came across as very genuine, and patient explaining many times details to people, who were understandably frustrated by the situation as it is .

as an agency they are charging 121 per annum per unit, which seems reasonable considering the amount of work they have done in weeks compared to 3 yrs previous .

one woman own two apartments, and having complained about how unfair the fess as indicated was to every one, then said that owning two apartments she thought she should only have to pay one fee and that it wasn't "fair" - seemed a very strange logic .

there was talk of a residences association but we agreed more sensible to have one entity which had more clout legally.

after 3 years the only reason there was an AGM was that this new agency insisted it was needed if they were to take over as agents.

so in the end
I went, i learned, i contributed, and now will try/hope to make real change to how things work. he also seemed genuinely surprised that we voted in 6 directors - hopefully the enthusiasm to sort things will survive more than one night .

I also suggested we have a few directors to allow for resignations etc with out the complication of going below the 2 director minimum

there was some difficulty in getting the audited accounts approved , no one would propose it until was explained that that would only preserve the status quo and make the units unsellable

anyways might be useful to some one

and ocad might look into that assessor option - thanks