Vindicated

Boston

That is very true. If the guy used the airsoft gun in a criminal act it would be classed as a weapon in that situation.

User45701

I see and a Joule, i dont know how this compares to feet per second which is how airsoft was measured when i used to have a interest in it

Boston

User45701 wrote:

I see and a Joule, i dont know how this compares to feet per second which is how airsoft was measured when i used to have a interest in it

They are interelated. The brits use fps afaik. 1 joule equates to approx 320 - 350 fps.

godtabh

Any chance you could post the wiki page?

o1s1n

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_issues_in_airsoft#Ireland

I'll edit it back to the correct way in a little while. You can probably guess which part he has added.

ambro25

User45701 wrote:

Is he right tho? legally speaking?

"Legally speaking" (IANAL), I'll highlight the relevant parts, for your benefit.

o1s1n, quoting needle too wrote:

anything with a barrel capable of firing above 1 joule is potentially (i) illegal.

The law is set up so that as soon as a criminal threathens someone(ii) with one of these he can be charged with possession of a weapon - not possession of a fkn toy. Thats the way the world works, son - there is no black and white (iii).

(i) Any length of mostly-metallic tube is capable of firing anything that fits inside above 1 joule, given appropriate modifications.

So, claiming that an airsoft device is illegal (no ifs) because it could be modified to fire over 1J, indeed amounts to claiming that "any length of mostly-metallic tube" is illegal.

I hope you got shares in plastic tubing/hose manufacturers, because there's a few billion yards of metallic tubing sitting on building wholesalers' shelves in this country.

(ii) There is a distinct difference between threatening someone for criminal purposes with an imitation firearm, and owning one for sport/recreational purposes: we airsoft practitionners are generally (I do not purport to speak for all) in favour of such an 'use an airsoft device criminally, go down as if it was the real one' position.

Whether it's an airsoft device, or indeed a €0,99 plastic toy.

There is no argument with needle too's position there.

But it has nothing to do with the legality of an airsoft device (per the Firearms Act), and all to do with sanctioning criminal behaviour (per the Criminal Act - or qhatever it's called): in this particular case, it's needle too who doesn't really understand hsi own argument - or evidence that the guy is clutching at straws. Whatever, point is moot.

(iii) As with absolutely anything to do with Law in a Case Law-based jurisdiction (=IE, UK and many other UK-insprired systems (AU, NZ, SG, etc.)), the Law is a guide and indeed nothing is ever black and white and everything is open to interpretation by a Judge, on the facts.

The meaning of the Law as stated in the Act is given through a series of consecutive judgements, causally linked on the facts - there has not been any judgement in respect of anything airsoft in Ireland, therefore:

* needle too has his interpretation,
* allegedly he also benefits from Counsel's opinion,
* we have our interpretation and,
* so far as the legality of the sport, as assessed by relevant Authorities, is concerned, so have the relevant Authorities, which have authorised (in writing) at least one venue to date in the Republic, after inspection of the equipment and facilities.

Vegeta

User45701 wrote:

I see and a Joule, i dont know how this compares to feet per second which is how airsoft was measured when i used to have a interest in it

depends on the weight of the projectile. A lighter projectile needs to be travelling faster to reach the 1 joule limit so giving a feet per second (fps) figure is misleading and ill-advised.

for example for a bb weighing X fired at say 320 fps this may be under 1 joule. The danger here lies in the fact people may think that 320 fps is a golden rule and fire bbs weighing 10X at 320 fps easily breaking the 1 joule. (largely exagerated to highlight a point)

the guys will post with specifics i'm sure

o1s1n

Sorry if it seems I am pedantic, but if anyone is quoting needle two's comment in the wiki entry which I have included in my first post, could you please take my name out of it?

All your quotes are starting with

"o1s1n said"

Don't want people getting confused.




oh I see you've already said needles said it, sorry ambro!

Boston

Thats a fair point, its energy so it will be related to the mass of the bb, the standard is .2g for for a standard bb 1 joule will get you 320fps ~ 350fps.

Hivemind187

Vegeta wrote:

depends on the weight of the projectile. A lighter projectile needs to be travelling faster to reach the 1 joule limit so giving a feet per second (fps) figure is misleading and ill-advised.

for example for a bb weighing X fired at say 320 fps this may be under 1 joule. The danger here lies in the fact people may think that 320 fps is a golden rule and fire bbs weighing 10X at 320 fps easily breaking the 1 joule. (largely exagerated to highlight a point)

the guys will post with specifics i'm sure

A 0.2gram BB travelling at 328 feet per second will have an energy of 1joule.

The power is regulated by the potential energy contained in the spring used to drive the piston. Therefore, using a 0.25gram BB will travel at a slower velocity yet impart the same 1joule of energy.

Science, y'a gotta love it.

ambro25

o1s1n wrote:

oh I see you've already said needles said it, sorry ambro!

Not pedantic at all, m8 - I thought it looked odd, the second I re-read it once posted

monkey tennis

Nick_oliveri wrote:

Vendetta?....

Yup, this guy should take it to 'personal issues' rather than 'feedback' tbh. Very childish.

User45701 wrote:

Also if he does turn out to be right, a mod who so strongley opposed the issue should be removed

Why? Should a regular user be banned because their opinion (even if incorrectly researched) differs from another user's?
A mod is there for cleanup duties, and are otherwise a regular user - they are not an ambassador of boards, nor are they a minister for their particular forum topic.

Vegeta

Hivemind187 wrote:

A 0.2gram BB travelling at 328 feet per second will have an energy of 1joule.

The power is regulated by the potential energy contained in the spring used to drive the piston. Therefore, using a 0.25gram BB will travel at a slower velocity yet impart the same 1joule of energy.

Science, y'a gotta love it.

Thanks for the specifics.

I suppose the danger with fps figures is that someone using 0.25g bbs tunes it until they get 328 fps or above as they think 328 fps is the legal limit and don't understand why the 1 joule is important

o1s1n

monkey tennis wrote:

Why? Should a regular user be banned because their opinion (even if incorrectly researched) differs from another user's?
A mod is there for cleanup duties, and are otherwise a regular user - they are not an ambassador of boards.

If the admins think I've done something wrong, I'd happily give up the position of moderator without a fuss.

The thing is though, they don't. We are right, end of. I think we're feeding this troll a little too much.

ambro25

Vegeta wrote:

I suppose the danger...

That's why the Law says 1 Joule, not 328 FPS[/'needle too' mode]

...looks around, puzzled... "Is this still feedback or have I got the wrong Forum again?"

godtabh

o1s1n wrote:

If the admins think I've done something wrong, I'd happily give up the position of moderator without a fuss.

The thing is though, they don't. We are right, end of. I think we're feeding this troll a little too much.

Having only ready whats in this thread and what was post in the link the OP posted in his first thread I would agree with this.

Is there any chance the OP is a banned user coming back for revenge and stirring things up?

Dave!

This guy's a bit on the mental side of things... He got legal advice, apparantly from a bargain basement lawyer, and now is so adament that he's in the right that he's going to go on a mad one to try and stop everyone playing the sport.

Just to compare -- he got advice from 1 person. We have gotten approval from customs, the Gardaí, and the DPP.

There is no more argument about it being legal. This thread should now concentrate on what is driving the OP, and exactly what kind of mental disorder he has.

kinkstr

Stop feeding the psychotic troll people.

Cuddlesworth

DaveMcG wrote:

There is no more argument about it being legal. This thread should now concentrate on what is driving the OP, and exactly what kind of mental disorder he has.

Fruit and Nut disorder.

o1s1n

I see the airsoft wiki has been edited back in our favour again. Nicely done.

Boston

As far as I know this needle guy is a garda officer, correct? Why doesn't he show up at HRTA and arest people?

Answer is that he would get teh arse sued off him and face charges himself for false arrest.

o1s1n

Boston wrote:

As far as I know this needle guy is a garda officer, correct? Why doesn't he show up at HRTA and arest people?
.

I don't think so? If he is, that's the first mention I've heard of it.

Boston

DeVore wrote:

The poster is well known to be a garda though that doesnt make him a lawyer. It does put him right at the front line of the practise rather then the theory.

DeV.

Reading over the post Devore may not be talking about needle, buts thats the impression I got.

Dave!

hmmm, looks more like he's talking about the person Crazy Rabbit is referring to.

o1s1n

As far as boards.ie is concerned, I really hope we can put this nonsense to bed with this thread. This is the third time he's tried this on, third time he's called me a liar and a misleader.

Nicely, it's also the third time he's been shot down by a large number of posters who know what they're talking about. Even posters who don't play airsoft.

I can't see him stopping and I'm sure we'll have to make many more future edits to the wiki page.

But it would be nice to see an end to this dribble on boards.

Although, I have to admit, any time he causes a fuss it just ends up with more positive interest in airsoft and more people turning up to events.

Irony is a great thing.

RuggieBear

o1s1n wrote:

As far as boards.ie is concerned, I really hope we can put this nonsense to bed with this thread. This is the third time he's tried this on, third time he's called me a liar and a misleader.

Nicely, it's also the third time he's been shot down by a large number of posters who know what they're talking about. Even posters who don't play airsoft.

I can't see him stopping and I'm sure we'll have to make many more future edits to the wiki page.

But it would be nice to see an end to this dribble on boards.

Although, I have to admit, any time he causes a fuss it just ends up with more positive interest in airsoft and more people turning up to events.

Irony is a great thing.

Can you go to the GARDAI about harassment or sue him for defamation or something

o1s1n

I would like to obtain his IP address and do just that. Something I am currently in the process of attempting to do through wikipedia.

seamus

This needle guy is not a Garda. Just someone who clearly has a misguided agenda of sorts.

RuggieBear

o1s1n wrote:

I would like to obtain his IP address and do just that. Something I am currently in the process of attempting to do through wikipedia.

Groovy. good luck with that

ambro25

o1s1n wrote:

Although, I have to admit, any time he causes a fuss it just ends up with more positive interest in airsoft and more people turning up to events.

World exclusive! First-ever case of "Keep feeding the Troll"-itis on an Interweb Forum!