Liverpool favourites ??

AirDemon

The point he was making sounded like a 5 point gap after 4 games is equivilant to a 20 point gap after 38. I can’t see anyone stopping Chelsea this season. The team has got probably one of the best if not the best squad in the world overall. Malouda should make a big difference.

(United fan btw)

jank

No doubt he is a very good manager, and has an uncommonly good eye for talent, but 3 leagues and some fa cups does not a greatest manager in the history of the game make.

Nobody said he was the greatest ever.
There are a few in front of him obviously you are going to tell me who they are....

marco_polo

AirDemon wrote:

The point he was making sounded like a 5 point gap after 4 games is equivilant to a 20 point gap after 38. I can’t see anyone stopping Chelsea this season. The team has got probably one of the best if not the best squad in the world overall. Malouda should make a big difference.

(United fan btw)

Yeah they have made a pretty impressive start more like the Chelsea that won the league the first time a few years ago. I think tey are still a bit vunerable should injuries injuries occur to the likes ofTerry or Drogba, but at least they have better cover for such a situation (Pizzaro and Ben Haim) than last season.

Then again depite all the protestions about who has the best squad none of the big 4 can afford injuries to more than one or two of their big players at the same time, look at United currently struggling without Rooney / Ronaldo, I can imagine that Liverpool without Gerrard / Torres or Arsenal without Fab or Van P for an extended eriod would find the going tough enough as well.

RE*AC*TOR

jank wrote:

Nobody said he was the greatest ever.
There are a few in front of him obviously you are going to tell me who they are....

Notice how i used "a" and not "the". I didn't imply that you said he was "the" greatest. Nor do I think it necessary for me to list the greatest managers of all time. Wenger is still relatively young, he has time to grow into that stature. Ferguson I would say has definetly already earned it.

I guess it depends on how long your list is. If its only 10 managers then, Wenger wouldn't make it (yet). If its 50 managers, then yes, he would be.

Nalz

all i have to say about this thread is


blah

The Rooster

Trilla wrote:

all i have to say about this thread is


blah

Same as all your posts so

couldnt resist

herbieflowers

leninbenjamin wrote:

herbie in reality that 21 points isn't a true reflection. how many games did Rafa field his reserves because he was looking ahead towards the semis and final? it was at three anyway wasn't it? people have been reading too much into that imo.

Yeah I know, but that was the point. Can Pool consistently (ie the whole season) win games? Do they have the squad? In fariness we haven't seen if they can achieve that because, as you said, Benitez fielded reserve sides in many of the matches in which they dropped points last season...

See, the real test for Pool will be if the squad is able to cope with playing in all competitions...more importantly competing in all four competitions.

leninbenjamin

herbieflowers wrote:

Yeah I know, but that was the point. Can Pool consistently (ie the whole season) win games? Do they have the squad? In fariness we haven't seen if they can achieve that because, as you said, Benitez fielded reserve sides in many of the matches in which they dropped points last season...

I fail to see your point. it wasn't a case of them consistently trying to win games, it was a case of them not giving a shiddle-dee-diddle about the league once they'd top4 secured. frankly, we dont know what they'd be like if they had too compete on 4 fronts.

you can make the same argument of any team, no team has perfect depth of squad, Utd would struggle without Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Arsenal without Fabregas, VP, Touré, and Chelsea, to a lesser extent, but on the evidence of last season without a few of Terry, Cech, Drogs and Lamps they are capable of faltering.

PHB

I think Wenger is an incredible manager. If you were making a top 5 list of managers who have managed in England, I think I'd just about put him in there. For the amount of money he has spent he has had incredible success.

leninbenjamin

PHB wrote:

I think Wenger is an incredible manager. If you were making a top 5 list of managers who have managed in England, I think I'd just about put him in there. For the amount of money he has spent he has had incredible success.

+1

also the only prem manager to have his side go unbeaten for a whole season in the premier league isn't he? anyone who disses his ability just isn't at the races imo.

Mr Alan

As good as he is, his european record lets him down big time though

PHB

Not in my opinion. He got to a final. He isn't a tactical genius, he doesn't just care about winning, and he has never had the funds to ever really be able to buy the best of the best, or even the best of the rest.
He has to buy very smartly, and realistically, to win the CL, with the style of football he plays, you need a couple of players of Henry's class. Barca could do that, but spent a lot more money than he has.
Winning a cup with defensive football is a lot easier, but Wenger wouldn't do that.

If he went to Madrid, I think he'd win everything within 3 years, of that there is no doubt in my mind.

Mr Alan

you an arsenal fan deep down?!

PHB

Yeh that's likely.

leninbenjamin

millersangel wrote:

you an arsenal fan deep down?!

he's just tellin the truth as it is.

what other manager would be able to get a top 4 finish playing a teenager in centre mid in the prem! there's not many who 1) would take the risk 2) be able to get a player so young to be able to play so well and with such consistency. who else would be able to turn a £150,000 signing into one of the world's best defenders? and it goes on in that vain... but anyway, not many!

you can't judge a manager just based by what's on his trophy shelf. so many have stumbled on a golden formula but then preside over it's fading away without ever truly grasping what the formula was to begin with...

Edit: i'm probably going a bit over board with my praises of Wenger, but at the same time i find it odd how some people have become so dismissive of Arsenal and Wenger lately

Mr Alan

In 50 years time,at the minute- i don't think Wenger will be rated with your Shankley, Paisleys, Fergusons, Cappellos. And to be honest, as good as he is, i don't think he should be.

whatawaster

In my opinion Wenger is absolutely up there with the very best - Shankly, Paisley, Ferguson, Clough. It's not just his success, which there has been plenty of, but it's also the way he changed the entire attitude and culture of the club, similar to what Shankly did at Liverpool.

RE*AC*TOR

to some of the above posters...

:rolleyes:

there was football before 1992 y'know

leninbenjamin

RE*AC*TOR wrote:

to some of the above posters...

:rolleyes:

there was football before 1992 y'know

to young to have known anything before. i thought we were talking about current affiars tbh. Wenger did preside over a shift in attitudes towards football in england that a lot of managers have followed, i havn't a full on notion but i'd imagine he'll be mentioned in comparison with some of the greats in time.

eidt: anyway this is horrendously off topic now...

Mr Alan

doesn't suit most United/Arsenal fans to remember anything before Sky came along

astrofool

or pool fans to remember anything after

herbieflowers

leninbenjamin wrote:

I fail to see your point. it wasn't a case of them consistently trying to win games, it was a case of them not giving a shiddle-dee-diddle about the league once they'd top4 secured. frankly, we dont know what they'd be like if they had too compete on 4 fronts.

you can make the same argument of any team, no team has perfect depth of squad, Utd would struggle without Ferdinand, Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Arsenal without Fabregas, VP, Touré, and Chelsea, to a lesser extent, but on the evidence of last season without a few of Terry, Cech, Drogs and Lamps they are capable of faltering.

I agree. We don't know what if they'd cope competing on all four fronts...in my view, and from a logical perspective, it's too much of a gulf to make up in just one season ie battling in four competitions- and that was my initial point in the first place.

As for your second point, yeah, I agree with that too. And it was part of my argument - how will they cope? Because the real test for Liverpool is this season. They'll want to shrug off the tag of also-rans but at the same time they'll want to do well in all competitions. For me, last season, all they were interesrted in was the CL. Was that because of their slow start or was it because Benitez was perceptive enough to realise that he didn't have the resources to win the title? Can the side adapt to grinding out results? Do they have the potential to rise to the challenge? (there are no definite answers to these questions btw!)

People expect them to mount a challenge given the investment they've made. But it comes down to, as I've said, luck and desire and consistency. Of course, there's no evidence to suggest that Liverpool won't win the league, it's all continegent tbh. We don't know, but we will soon enough.

Mr Alan

astrofool wrote:

or pool fans to remember anything after

not sure about that, Sky put together this nice little ditty if i ain't mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TURxUUcj0A

Or nice commentary like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qFD6yn8sTg

or if you like . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h5er4piAfI

Just biding our time, waiting to be back at the top of the league where we belong

Pepe LeFrits

millersangel wrote:

doesn't suit most United/Arsenal fans to remember anything before Sky came along

Arsenal were the second most successful club in England prior to the arrival of sky, and have since slipped to third, so actually, it kindof does.

Mr Alan

Apologies to any Arsenal fans i annoyed! You got my point though