Going slower is now called progress

E92

Volvo have decided in their wisdom, that 197 bhp is far too fast for the top line S80 and soon to be launched V70(even though its the entry model), and also far too refined.

Which is why next year, the Volvo S80 and V70 will be available with 2.0 litre 4 cylinder engines. The S80 and V70 will boast the unenviable distinction of being the lowest powered executive cars in the class, not to mention the lowest powered large Volvo's since the demise of the S70/first generation V70(the facelifed 850 one).

They will also boast the lowest number of cylinders to be found in a large Volvo since the 940.

Anyway, the engines are the 2.0 litre engine currently found in todays Ford Mondeo/Focus etc, so that obviously will be the one to avoid(especially with only 143 bhp) but also obviously the most popular version in this country.

The second 2.0 litre is no stranger to Volvo(or indeed PSA or the rest of the Ford group), already found in the S40/V50, it boasts the unenviable distinction of being the lowest powered exec car since the BMW 518i(I think)(now how long ago is that:eek: ), but fortunately its diesel, the 134 bhp unit we're all familiar with.

Not to be outdone on this new form of 'progress', BMW have decided that 190 bhp for a base model petrol 5 series is too much as well, good heavens a creamy straight 6 shouldn't be instatly available if you prefer your 5 series motoring to be petrol powered:eek:, which is why next year you will able to buy a 520i, complete with the same 2.0 litre engine currently used in the 3 series Coupé(and Cabrio) and 120i. Which boasts 170 bhp.

Because good things come in threes, Audi have decided to join in, and insert a 2.8 litre engine into the A8 for its facelift.

Power is 210 bhp, the lowest since BMW got rid of the 728i(and Merc got rid of the W220 S280), but there is at least some good news in the form of it being the lowest emission luxury car to go on sale, and that includes any diesel or hybrid you care to mention. It does 34 mpg, and CO2 emissions are a not-at-all-bad-for-the-size-and-type-of-car 199 g/km.

No ideas of prices, specs etc for any of them, but I do know this, expect to see a lot more S80s(and A8s) on the roads next year.

peasant

Had a look at the roads recently?

Congestion, constant traffic, speed limits everywhere.

143 hp is plenty to keep moving in those conditions.


Back in my day (:D :eek: ) anything above 75 hp was considered high powered and you still made decent progress. OK ...cars were lighter then ...but not THAT light.

Henry Ford III

Top of the line is a 315ps V8 petrol currently. See www.volvocars.ie

Owen

E92 wrote:

Not to be outdone on this new form of 'progress', BMW have decided that 190 bhp for a base model petrol 5 series is too much as well, good heavens a creamy straight 6 shouldn't be instatly available if you prefer your 5 series motoring to be petrol powered:eek:, which is why next year you will able to buy a 520i, complete with the same 2.0 litre engine currently used in the 3 series Coupé(and Cabrio) and 120i. Which boasts 170 bhp.

The key here is displacement, not only concentrating on performance figures. The current entry level petrol 5 Series is a 2.5 litre 6 cylinder engine. This new 170 Bhp engine will be 2 litres 4 Cylinder engine (Cheaper for Tax, Insurance, running costs), and will probably be a little cheaper to purchase initially. The 2.5 Litre engine you bemoan as no longer being the entry level Petrol will still be available. So, there's no step backwards as such, just a cheaper car with decent performance for people who can't always step up to the 2.5 litre option.

maidhc

Pesky manufacturers making cars people want to buy!

RobAMerc

Smaller engines is a pesky trends that will a:) go away or b) lead to the development of some great new technology that will allow 1600cc cars break 300bhp while doing 70mpg until the next fad comes along.
In the eighties it was light cars for fuel effeciency, then safe cars (made them heavy and drink petrol), now frugal cars but safe, these are just fads
that will no doubt lead to the evolution of cars and more on, some good some bad.

Why I find funny is the current fad of MPV's and twin exhausts (one on either side) in a time when people are worried about fuel consumption. Just goes to show the car companies cannot predict the future despite the millions boffins spend on it.

richie_rvf

I read that the reason for these lower powered engines is all down to emissions and the EU regs.

Richie.

alias no.9

richie_rvf wrote:

I read that the reason for these lower powered engines is all down to emissions and the EU regs.

Richie.

Indeed, it is the EU. Manufacturers are required to meet average emissions requirements across thier model range. The smaller engine brings their average down. That's also why your seeing 1.4 turbos coming from VW and Fiat, a 1.2 turbo coming from renault and 1.6 turbos coming from other manufacturers. It's cheaper to make a larger displacement normally aspirated engine than a smaller turbocharged engine, with similar power and perfromance. The turbo will be more efficient and produce less emissions.

E92

ned78 wrote:

The key here is displacement, not only concentrating on performance figures. The current entry level petrol 5 Series is a 2.5 litre 6 cylinder engine. This new 170 Bhp engine will be 2 litres 4 Cylinder engine (Cheaper for Tax, Insurance, running costs), and will probably be a little cheaper to purchase initially.

If you want a 5 series thats cheaper to run and buy than the 523i, there already is a 520d, which already does the tasks you say the new 520i will do.

Owen

E92 wrote:

If you want a 5 series thats cheaper to run and buy than the 523i, there already is a 520d, which already does the tasks you say the new 520i will do.

Indeed it does. But not everyone wants a 4 pot diesel. And the 520i Petrol should be cheaper than the Diesel too. So how's that a bad thing?

E92

peasant wrote:

Had a look at the roads recently?

Congestion, constant traffic, speed limits everywhere.

143 hp is plenty to keep moving in those conditions.

We've had those problems for years.

I don't believe in a car the weight(and size) of an S80, that 143 bhp would be adequate(it weighs a minimum of 1630 kilos in 2.5T(the lightest) guise).

Normally when car makers bring out a new car, its supposed to be faster(well certainly more powerful) than the car it replaces.

If engine size is that important, why can't Volvo re-introduce the 2.0T engine that is still used in the S60?

An S80 2.4D goes from 0 to 60 in 9.5 seconds, little better than a 1.8 Avensis(which takes 10 IIRC), and while an Avensis weighs 1245 kg and has 127 bhp, an S80 2.4D weighs 1647 kg, and has 163 bhp.

E92

ned78 wrote:

Indeed it does. But not everyone wants a 4 pot diesel.

Well as practically every 5 series after 2005 in this country is diesel(at least to my eyes:D )(BMW Ireland even said it(the 520d) was the best selling 5 series by a mile for 2006, they also interestingly said that the 318i was the best selling 3 series for 06, which makes one question why they brought in the 316i here even though I know there are plenty of 316i's around the place),more specifically the 520d, we'll just have to agree to differ.

But since you asked, the 520i is both slower and less efficient than a 520d. I just don't see what niche it would fill(even though I know that it will sell well)

Incidentally ned, why don't BMW introduce a 323i here, especially as they sell such a car in other parts of the world? There are plenty of E36(and E46)s running around in 320i form which of course was the cheapest 6 pot option.

And similarly why no 535i, as again they sell it elsewhere(even the US), and surley for someone who wants a fast non diesel 5 series, this would be ideal, as its faster than the 540i(more torque at lower revs), and would be(a lot) less expensive to run too(and that even is supposed to make V8 sounbds from time to time?

peasant

E92 wrote:

We've had those problems for years.

I don't believe in a car the weight(and size) of an S80, that 143 bhp would be adequate(it weighs a minimum of 1630 kilos in 2.5T(the lightest) guise).

depends on your definition of "adequate"

My yoke weighs the same and has 69 bhp :rolleyes:

seriously:
I think the phase of bigger, faster, stronger cars has come to its end.
There will be no more x5's, Cayennes or Q7's developed in a few years.
This will also filter down to "ordinary" cars.
Gigantomania has come to an end ..in the late nineties everybody was busy developing the 3Liter/100 km car but the market wasn't ready for it yet ... everybody wanted a last grab at big&fast before the oil ran out.

Well ...it is (runnning out) and climate is changing (how real that is is a discussion for another day) and sentiments are changing back again to more "sensible" modes of transport.

Maybe not yet in Ireland (still too many people around who feel thay have some catching up to do) but certainly elswhere in Europe. Small diesels have done well ...small petrols (with good output) will be next and then it'll be time for alternative fuels to become mainstream.

Zascar

peasant wrote:

143 hp is plenty to keep moving in those conditions.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH what a joke... But then again I woudn't expect anyone who is into caravans to understand why people buy performance cars...

maidhc

Zascar wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH what a joke... But then again I woudn't expect anyone who is into caravans to understand why people buy performance cars...

None of the cars mentioned are performance cars. They are big comfy barges.

Biro

peasant wrote:

I think the phase of bigger, faster, stronger cars has come to its end.
There will be no more x5's, Cayennes or Q7's developed in a few years.
This will also filter down to "ordinary" cars.
Gigantomania has come to an end ..

It's true. Look at the other end of the scale. The Starlet and it's competitors are now in current state (ignore name changes) as big as the Golf/Corolla sized cars were 15 years ago. They've gotten so big that they're introducing new smaller cars at the bottom to fill the gap.
Mazda have gone out on their own this time with the new 2. It's smaller than the last one, but it looks better, drives better and is better all round for it. If it's not big enough, get a 3. And thats the way it should be. Better, not necessarily bigger.

peasant

Zascar wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAAHAH what a joke... But then again I woudn't expect anyone who is into caravans to understand why people buy performance cars...

I've had my performance car, thank you very much.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't want another one. Roads have become so crowded and speed checks are so common now, that the only "performance" to be had out of a powerful car these days is a quick loss of licence.

Unless you have access to a track on a regular basis, a performance car is more frustration than anything else these days.

How many times can you accelerate from a roundabout or red lights to the speed limit before it gets boring?

astraboy

peasant wrote:

I've had my performance car, thank you very much.

Quite honestly, I wouldn't want another one. Roads have become so crowded and speed checks are so common now, that the only "performance" to be had out of a powerful car these days is a quick loss of licence.

Unless you have access to a track on a regular basis, a performance car is more frustration than anything else these days.

How many times can you accelerate from a roundabout or red lights to the speed limit before it gets boring?

There are still plenty of ways to enjoy a performace car. We don't all want to be driving 1.3 toyota corollas for 500,000 miles. If you do not see the point of a performance car fine, don't buy one but don't predict some horrific world where people are so devoid of fun and emotion we all drive low powered snoremobiles. A performance car does mean sacfirice in terms of running cost and comfort at times, if you do not want to make that compromise fine but don't force it on the rest of us!

Owen

E92 wrote:

Well as practically every 5 series after 2005 in this country is diesel(at least to my eyes:D )(BMW Ireland even said it(the 520d) was the best selling 5 series by a mile for 2006, they also interestingly said that the 318i was the best selling 3 series for 06, which makes one question why they brought in the 316i here even though I know there are plenty of 316i's around the place),more specifically the 520d, we'll just have to agree to differ.

The only reason there's so many 520d's, is that it was the only 2 litre 5 Series available. People would probably have bought petrol instead, so now they can.

E92 wrote:

But since you asked, the 520i is both slower and less efficient than a 520d. I just don't see what niche it would fill(even though I know that it will sell well)

Well, it's actually going to be more powerful than the existing 520d, which was up until now 167 Bhp. So it's not that bad actually, and will fill the only niche it needs to ... being an affordable entry level 5 Series.

E92 wrote:

Incidentally ned, why don't BMW introduce a 323i here, especially as they sell such a car in other parts of the world? There are plenty of E36(and E46)s running around in 320i form which of course was the cheapest 6 pot option. And similarly why no 535i, as again they sell it elsewhere(even the US), and surley for someone who wants a fast non diesel 5 series, this would be ideal, as its faster than the 540i(more torque at lower revs), and would be(a lot) less expensive to run too(and that even is supposed to make V8 sounbds from time to time?

No idea. Ask BMW?

colm_mcm

Shouldn't this thread be called "Going slower is now called Progress"?

E92

ned78 wrote:

No idea. Ask BMW?

You work for BMW(I know its MINI really, but they are the same crowd), you're supposed to tell me that answer, thats why I asked you!:D

By the way, the 520d is being upped to 177bhp at the same time the 520i is arriving, so it will be slower than the 520d.(and even if the 520d was still at 163 bhp, the 520i would still be infinately slower apart from 0-60 times than the 520d)

E92

colm_mcm wrote:

Shouldn't this thread be called "Going slower is now called Progress"?

I suppose it should, I knew there was a reason why I was useless at English in school

Owen

E92 wrote:

You work for BMW(I know its MINI really, but they are the same crowd), you're supposed to tell me that answer, thats why I asked you!:D

No I don't. I work for a Dealership. We don't have the inside track people assume we do.