Petrol or Diesel

jones

I am purchasing a new car (well second hand) this january and am wondering which type to go for. I am thinking of an Opel Astra 05/06 but my real question is should i go for Deisel or Petrol.

i do about 22,000 kilometers a year at the moment i am driving a 00 Rover 25 1.4 petrol which is fairly economical but i want a change.
with all this talk of fuel going to rocket in price whats my best option?

any comments/opinions welcome

Jones

mikedragon32

I was told that you need to be doing about 20,000 miles p.a. to make driving a diesel economical, due to offsetting the higher costs of servicing and maintenance of diesel engines.

BostonB

Someone in the family has a 1.3 CDTI. Nice enough motor, a bit of turbo lag though. Pricewise they are a good bit more than the petrol.

bazz26

22,000 km is just over 15,000 miles a year which is not really diesel mileage imo. Diesel models usually cost anywhere from €2.5k to €4k more than a similar petrol model. That difference can buy you alot of petrol. At the moment diesel is around 8c to 10c cheaper per litre than petrol but this is not always the case. This time last year diesel was around the same price as petrol if not a little dearer. The one advantage though is that alot of that money will be clawed back when you go to sell on the diesel model.

Also diesels these days usually have the same service intervals as petrols and usually cost around the same to service.

jones

That's brilliant lads thanks for the info. I remember hearing about having to be doing a certain number of miles to make a Diesel feasible...think I'll stick with the Petrol for now...
now to decide between the 3 door and 5 door astra .

Thanks for the advice

maidhc

This thing about needing to x number of miles is a bit silly. As was said you get back a lot of your money anyway, and you get a more powerful car to begin with.

Greenman

80% of the cars here in Belgium are diesel, I only drive diesel, I get 5,1 litres to the 100 kms on my 1990 Vectra 1.7.

BostonB

maidhc wrote:

This thing about needing to x number of miles is a bit silly. As was said you get back a lot of your money anyway, and you get a more powerful car to begin with.

Deprecation should be included in your cost per mile. No?

tuxy

maidhc wrote:

and you get a more powerful car to begin with.

What?

v10

tuxy wrote:

What?

Was thinking the same myself ...

maidhc

v10 wrote:

Was thinking the same myself ...

Try driving a 1.4D4D corolla and then a 1.4 VVTI and come back and tell me which one is more useful!

Depreciation should be included. Small diesels hold their value very well. The aforementioned Corolla D4D is known to sell secondhand for only a small discount on its price new, while there are plenty of 1.4VVTis about.

v10

maidhc wrote:

Try driving a 1.4D4D corolla and then a 1.4 VVTI and come back and tell me which one is more useful!

How about I just quote the required info:
1.4 VVT-i :
1398cc
97 bhp
top speed: 115
0 - 60: 11.6 seconds

1.4 D-4D
1364cc
89 bhp
Top Speed: 112
0 - 60: 12.9 seconds

Looks like we have a winner, and it isn't the diesel.

gyppo

v10 wrote:

How about I just quote the required info:
1.4 VVT-i :
1398cc
97 bhp
top speed: 115
0 - 60: 11.6 seconds

1.4 D-4D
1364cc
89 bhp
Top Speed: 112
0 - 60: 12.9 seconds

Looks like we have a winner, and it isn't the diesel.

With respect, quoting top speeds and 0-60 times are of very limited use in daily driving. More important to many is economy and a thing called torque. Why dont you quote the torque figures, before you declare winners.

I'd imagine the 80-120kmh acceleration figures on the diesel would be more impressive than its petrol counterpart.

v10

gyppo wrote:

With respect, quoting top speeds and 0-60 times are of very limited use in daily driving. More important to many is economy and a thing called torque. Why dont you quote the torque figures, before you declare winners.

I'd imagine the 80-120kmh acceleration figures on the diesel would be more impressive than its petrol counterpart.

Listen I drive a diesel myself and while I understand the whole torque argument .. its that torque that drives the car to 100 kmph in whatever amount of seconds so the extra torque may be useful but in this case isn't enough to increase the acceleration of the car's 0-60 time above that of the petrol. Yes the torque may increase the 80 - 120 kmph acceleration, but I reckon I do a lot more driving between 0 and 100 kmph than I do between 80 and 120. Otherwise economy is the main reason people would go for diesel but you need to take the extra cost of the diesel car purchase into the equation also. I think you also need to consider the extra noise a diesel makes, the fact that a petrol will be a smoother engine the fact that every time you put diesel in your car, you'll stink for an hour.

By the way a diesel has all that torque because it has a turbo charger, not because its diesel .. strap the turbo charger onto the equivalent petrol engine and then compare them.

craichoe

v10 wrote:

Listen I drive a diesel myself and while I understand the whole torque argument .. its that torque that drives the car to 100 kmph in whatever amount of seconds so the extra torque may be useful but in this case isn't enough to increase the acceleration of the car's 0-60 time above that of the petrol. Yes the torque may increase the 80 - 120 kmph acceleration, but I reckon I do a lot more driving between 0 and 100 kmph than I do between 80 and 120. Otherwise economy is the main reason people would go for diesel but you need to take the extra cost of the diesel car purchase into the equation also. I think you also need to consider the extra noise a diesel makes, the fact that a petrol will be a smoother engine the fact that every time you put diesel in your car, you'll stink for an hour.

By the way a diesel has all that torque because it has a turbo charger, not because its diesel .. strap the turbo charger onto the equivalent petrol engine and then compare them.

A diesel does not generate torque because it has a turbo charger. The turbo gives you power, a diesel without a turbo will pull the same weight as a diesel without, but with a turbo you will have more acceleration through more power.

0-60 times are pretty useless imo, unless your at a track or really anxious at lights.

TBH if i drove a diesel the same as a petrol i'd probably think it was noisy and rough too. You change gears ALOT earlier when driving Diesel as your have a much shorter rev range.

The only time you use high revs on a Diesel engine would be if you were towing a very heavy weight.

if you were driving a 2.0 Litre car and were trying to outrun the Gardai in a standard 1.6 car of the same model, the gardai will have more POWER because they have the rev limiters removed from the car.

Point being, you can get much more power from an engine if you want, just the longevity and service schedule is affected.

F1 engine is good for about 3000 miles .. and they have a very small CC engine.


I think the only downside to a Turbo Diesel myself is turbo lag.

VAG 1.9 and 2.0 TDI would be my favorite choice, TDI just has way too much turbo lag

v10

I actually like the idea the VW is implementing in some of their petrol cars now with a supercharger and a turbo used. It results in a 1.4 petrol engine producing 170bhp with 240nm of torque and increased fuel consumption.

v10

craichoe wrote:

F1 engine is good for about 3000 miles .. and they have a very small CC engine.

They have a 2.4 petrol engines with around 900 bhp .. hence they only last 3000 miles.

tuxy

I think the point people were trying to make about the diesel going from 80 - 120 faster is that's the kind of accelerating you would be doing when overtaking. Apart from overtaking it's very rare to have to accelerate hard in everyday driving.

cyborg

craichoe wrote:

if you were driving a 2.0 Litre car and were trying to outrun the Gardai in a standard 1.6 car of the same model, the gardai will have more POWER because they have the rev limiters removed from the car.

Rubbish - 99% of cars will not make any more power by just removing the rev limiter.
Power is not just about high revs it's about high torque at high revs.

craichoe

v10 wrote:

They have a 2.4 petrol engines with around 900 bhp .. hence they only last 3000 miles.

Yes, but would have about as much torque as my granny lifting a bag of cement

Marcus.Aurelius

craichoe wrote:

if you were driving a 2.0 Litre car and were trying to outrun the Gardai in a standard 1.6 car of the same model, the gardai will have more POWER because they have the rev limiters removed from the car.

Have driven a lot of patrol cars in my business (mechanics) and they all have their limiters in place, even the Traffic Corps ones.

maidhc

tuxy wrote:

I think the point people were trying to make about the diesel going from 80 - 120 faster is that's the kind of accelerating you would be doing when overtaking. Apart from overtaking it's very rare to have to accelerate hard in everyday driving.

Being able to overtake safely is a fundamental part of everyday driving. Diesels are better at it.

craichoe

maoleary wrote:

Have driven a lot of patrol cars in my business (mechanics) and they all have their limiters in place, even the Traffic Corps ones.

Worded that incorrectly, the upped rev limit is higher, their told this on the driving course. High RPM's can mean loss of control on corners when the rev limiter kicks in due to the loss in power.

They rarely ever take the car out of third gear.

Off topic:
Opel Vectra has to be the worst car ever as a patrol car

BostonB

craichoe wrote:

A diesel does not generate torque because it has a turbo charger. The turbo gives you power, a diesel without a turbo will pull the same weight as a diesel without, but with a turbo you will have more acceleration through more power.....

if you were driving a 2.0 Litre car and were trying to outrun the Gardai in a standard 1.6 car of the same model, the gardai will have more POWER because they have the rev limiters removed from the car. ...

craichoe wrote:

Worded that incorrectly, the upped rev limit is higher, their told this on the driving course. High RPM's can mean loss of control on corners when the rev limiter kicks in due to the loss in power.

They rarely ever take the car out of third gear....

Quit will yah. You're embrassing yourself.

craichoe

BostonB wrote:

Quit will yah. You're embrassing yourself.

torque vs power
http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

RE: Rev limit on Patrol cars

If you don't believe me, go drive a squad car .. or have you spent alot of time in the back

My point is you can generate alot of power from a very small engine, diesel or petrol.

All i know is when you hit just above the redline in a standard 1.6 vectra the revs will jump up and down. With a squad car it will keep going right the way to the rpm meter. And this is what i was told and have seen.

I don't understand what your problem is

gerard sherry

how many miles per gallon should i get for a primera 99 sd turbo 2 litre car