Agnostic or Theist?

Pompey Magnus

I was in a discussion with a friend of mine and he was saying that although he believed in God he wasn't certain that God exists. I was telling him that by admitting he did not know this made him agnostic but he insisted otherwise.

I know this is just playing with words but I would be interested to know which of us was right. If you do not admit to "knowing" that God exists are you agnostic?

Ciaran500

Just ask Wiki

Agnosticism (from the Greek a, meaning "without", and Gnosticism or gnosis, meaning "knowledge") is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims—particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality—is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable due to the nature of subjective experience.

Theism is the belief in the existence of one or more divinities or deities.

Sounds like hes an agnostic

Tim Robbins

Depeche_Mode wrote:

I was in a discussion with a friend of mine and he was saying that although he believed in God he wasn't certain that God exists. I was telling him that by admitting he did not know this made him agnostic but he insisted otherwise.

I know this is just playing with words but I would be interested to know which of us was right. If you do not admit to "knowing" that God exists are you agnostic?

Yo Depeche Mode,
Are you going to the tribute band gig on the 8th?
Anyway to answer your question the philosopher Andre Compte Sponville deals with your question quite well.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Philosophy-Andre-Comte-Sponville/dp/0434011185
Nobody knows for certain if God exists or doesn't exist, only the fool says he knows if God exists or doesn't exists. A belief is different to knowing.

You can belief something exists / doesn't exist but not know.
An atheist does not belief God exists, but of course does not know. Unless he is a foolish atheist of which there are many.
Most intelligent people, admit the limits of their knowledge and are more certain of what they don't know than what they know. This goes right back to Socrates.
BTW, what do you think of all the spiritual references in Depeche Mode's lyrics?

Dades

None of us can "know" if a god exists - we can only have a belief one way or the other.

If your friend believes a particular god (e.g. the Christian God) exists, then I guess he is a theist. Just because he has his doubts, doesn't make him agnostic (see Mother Teresa thread for related discussion).

However if he just believes that some kind of undefined god exists, rather a specific one I would tend to put him in the agnostic zone. But you're right in that really its a play with words. The main one being - what is "god".

joe_chicken

although he believed in God he wasn't certain that God exists

This is an impossible way to be. He is confused about the idea of belief.

He's a dirty rotten fence sitter... like me

Tim Robbins

The Atheist wrote:

None of us can "know" if a god exists - we can only have a belief one way or the other.

If your friend believes a particular god (e.g. the Christian God) exists, then I guess he is a theist. Just because he has his doubts, doesn't make him agnostic (see Mother Teresa thread for related discussion).

However if he just believes that some kind of undefined god exists, rather a specific one I would tend to put him in the agnostic zone. But you're right in that really its a play with words. The main one being - what is "god".

When I say I believe there is no God that any theology suggests, so I am atheist, but then say I admit I could be wrong or that nobody knows for certain what's out there and we are all entitled to make our own call on it, I get the:
"Hey you're an agnostic then."
I find that annoying. Anyone else?

Zombrex

Depeche_Mode wrote:

I was in a discussion with a friend of mine and he was saying that although he believed in God he wasn't certain that God exists. I was telling him that by admitting he did not know this made him agnostic but he insisted otherwise.

If he believes God exists and this actually effects his out look on life, I would say he is a theists. Plenty of theists would say they aren't certain but that the idea makes sense to them, they have some evidence and they live their lives as if God does exists

An agnostic is more someone who has no idea, is open to the idea that God could exist, but doesn't really do anything about it.

Dave!

Don't most theists say that they don't know if god exists or not, but they believe that he does?

humanji

Wicknight wrote:

An agnostic is more someone who has no idea, is open to the idea that God could exist, but doesn't really do anything about it.

And what if you simply don't care? Does that make me an agnostic with nihilistic tendencies?

Crucifix

humanji wrote:

And what if you simply don't care? Does that make me an agnostic with nihilistic tendencies?

Apatheist?

Pompey Magnus

I guess I am a bit hard to please, if someone says they don't know for a fact that God exists then I try to claim they are agnostic, but if someone else claims that they do know for a fact that God exists I say they don't know what they are talking about. It is lose - lose when arguing with me I suppose . But I think what annoys me the most is when I hear the "I know God that exists" line.

Tim Robbins wrote:

Yo Depeche Mode,
Are you going to the tribute band gig on the 8th?
...
BTW, what do you think of all the spiritual references in Depeche Mode's lyrics?

I haven't heard about a gig, is it D-Mode? I saw them once and they were pretty good. As for the spiritual references in the songs I remember reading somewhere that they claimed to believe something was there but didn't know what, so I guess that makes them agnostic. Also my favorite lyric from them is:

"I dont want to start any blasphemous rumours But I think that God's got a sick sense of humour And when I die I expect to find him laughing"