Getting Faster

cunnins4

I've been running for a few years now, nothing further than 10k and my fastest time for that is 41mins-not mad fast, but it seems to be my limit. No matter how much i try i can't do it any quicker. Are there any drills that I could do to help me increase my times? Or would doing shorter distances really fast help me up the speed for the 10k? It used to be a case of pushing myself harder and the times came down, but that doesn't seem to be doing the trick anymore. I've never done anything other than just go out the door and run 5k out and 5k back so advice/tips are most welcome!

Stark

Have you ever tried interval or fartlek training?

http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_4/101.shtml - Speedwork for Advanced runners (runners looking to do 10K in less than 40 mins)
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_4/136.shtml - Advanced 10K program
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_1/105.shtml - Runners building blocks

cfitz

My advice would be:

If you're training less than six days per week at the moment, start training six times per week (increasing gradually - if you're only running once a week don't jump straight to six days; maybe increase by 1 day every 3 weeks...).

Up the length of your runs by a little bit every week, until you are doing an hour 5 days a week and 70 minutes once a week.

Take every 4th week easy (75% of distance - e.g. 45 minute runs instead of 60 etc.).

That should keep you improving for 3 months, then you could look into adding in faster runs.

I'm not really an expert, so if anyone disagrees maybe they should post their opinion.

thirtyfoot

My thinking is always go for intensity rather than quantity. Don't simply add on miles, the coolrunning programmes from Stark look good, you'll be running at or faster than your target 10km of 41mins more often in training. You'll see your times improve and the training is more interesting.

cfitz

Well my thinking is:

If this guy wants to run a fast 10k he's gonna have to improve his basic fitness first of all by increasing his mileage over the next few months. This in itself should be enough to improve his 10k time.

Then he'll be in a great position to start his tempo runs and long reps and really take chunks off his time - moreso than if he launched straight into the sessions.


Whatever way you decide to go 'cunnins4', be it increasing the mileage or adding in fast sessions, you should be able to get greater benefit than from just running 10k each time you run (provided you're training most days of the week that is).

Stark

Well the cool running programme mentions training comfortably 6 times a week as a prerequisite. From the sounds of it, the OP probably has a good level of basic fitness at the moment if he's doing 10K in 41 mins.

cunnins4

Stark wrote:

Well the cool running programme mentions training comfortably 6 times a week as a prerequisite. From the sounds of it, the OP probably has a good level of basic fitness at the moment if he's doing 10K in 41 mins.

I'd put myself down as being quite fit. I just did the Dublin Triathlon on Saturday, doing another in 4 weeks time. Just want to get a faster run time. The next one has a 12k run as opposed to the standard 10k, so i'll be upping the distance anyways.

I could run 6 days a week no problem, just at the moment i have to be out on the bike and in the pool a lot too. Throw in 2 jobs and 6 running sessions is tough to do. I'm lucky to do 3 most weeks.

Entertain me here: What times do you guys do a 10k in? (not a triathlon 10k mind you, off fresh legs-straight out the door doing nothing beforehand)

ceidefields

If you're looking to improve times in the context of a triathlon, I would definitely do the speedwork drills suggested in cool running. Or you could do some "sports specific" triathlon training, where you focus on one sport for a few months over the Winter.

In general, I have found the following combination to work quite well - one run running to complete VO2Max, one interval run, one run at target triathlon pace. Also, hill workouts are great for building speed. Find a hill that 300-400 metres long, sprint up and over the top, walk down. Repeat 8-12 times building on the number of repetitions each week.

Also, I presume you're doing "brick" workouts for the tri. Those are important to each your muscles to transition properly on a regular basis.

TheRoadRunner

Hi Cunnins4

Here are my thoughts, bear in mind you will probably get loads of different advice from different people. Most of it will be valid but you will have to taylor it to suit your needs especially as you seem to be a triathlete.

If I were training for 10k I would be running 6 days a week. These 6 days would include one long run at the weekend (10-12 miles), one session (400s, 800s,1000s miles etc) and one fartlek/tempo run. The remaining 3 days I would run very easy for basic conditioning/recovery. If thing were going well I would include an additional session and maybe drop one of the easy days/fartlek.

Seen as you as training for 2 additional events perhaps you only need to do 4/5 days per week. If you can run close to 40 minutes you have good basic stamina so perhaps quality sessions instead of "junk miles "will bring you along. Have you approached any knowledgeable triathletes? Additional training for the run could hamper your other events. I don't know much about triathlon training!

All the best

cfitz

cunnins4, the advice that I gave was from a point of few of improving your 10k time. It doesn't take into account that you might need to continue performing well at other elements of a triathlon.

When I said "improve basic fitness" that may not have been a very accurate phrase - basically, (based on my limited knowledge and everybody is different etc), to run a good 10k you would ideally have a few months of 50+ miles per week done. Where possible, it is good to have reached this kind of mileage before adding in fast sessions.

I don't know how well this applies to your situation and I am not a coach. I very rarely run 10k races on the road or track (I would consider myself primarily a cross-country runner). My last 10k on the road was over a year ago and I ran it in just under 34 minutes.

thirtyfoot

There are pros and cons to higher mileage or not. Both ends of the spectrum work for different people. The OP seems stuck in a rut despite the miles he is doing. Research has shown that unless you are an extreme elite athlete there is a limit to the responsiveness of muscles to training.

The European Journal of Physiology did research on race horses (horses I know but still) and trained them identically for 16 weeks. The increase in muscles and capillary growth plateaued after these 16 weeks. The horses were divided in two - a control group and an "over" training group. The over training group did significantly more miles than the control group yet after another 16 weeks there was no difference in muscle fibres or capillary growth to the lighter trained group. This to me make sense in that the body becomes acustomed to miles if you like and progress is limited. This sounds what has happened to the OP.

Regarding cfitz reference to what times have been run, as a junior I ran 35 min for 10k on the road despite rarely running above 8k in a single session with very low mileage overall but higher intensity work and off a base of 1500m training. The coolrunning program still peaks at 45 miles, not too shabby. Thats my angle on things, intensity over quantity but it doesn't work for all, depends on your genes. For the OP and the fact he has stagnated, I think its the way forward, but for you miles seems to work.

cunnins4

Okey dokey, wow, what a great response! Wasn't expecting so much! I didn't really get a chance to look at those links earlier (i went out on the bike for 2 hours-ha!) but it looks like a good plan, so i'm gonna work with them for the next while and see how the times go.

Ah bricks, in an ideal world all of my sessions would be bricks, but alas, time has been short of late so i haven't really worked them into my training much (i know i really really should). I finish my full time job for the summer on friday, so i've 6 weeks off before i return to college. I'm really really gonna hit training hard so my next triathlon goes well.

Over the winter I also want to build up the mileage with the aim of doing a half ironman next summer (for the craic, sure why not!) so my mileage will be steadily increasing over the winter months in all 3 components.

Jebus you guys are fast. I don't think i'll ever be hitting the sub 35minute 10k ever! But i'd like to get sub 40, and with any luck i'll get down to 38 or so. Now that would be an achievement for me!

Thanks again for all the helpful replies. They've been very, eh, helpful! I don't know any runners so i tend to get all my info off the web. I'm apparently a member of the college triathlon club, so this coming year i'm gonna get very active with those guys to try to pick up some tips!

Cheers guys!

cfitz

Hope everything goes well for you!

Sometimes it can be hard to sift through all the information you find in magazines, websites etc. and a good coach can be priceless if you can find one.

I think threads like these are probably good to make everyone think about why they are doing the training that they do.