Mass or Electric picnic

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

cavedave wrote:

Ah the classic "you are too stupid to be an atheist" argument.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Youre-too-stupid-to-be-an-atheist

It's fair enough if people think religion is stupid and science is the biz. But if they don't even know that much about Science and the limits of it and logic, I just think it's dogmatic.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Yeah if they give out about religion being a crutch for people who are afraid to look at life for what it really is. I'm planning on pointing out it's the same with drink. But they are just paying a lot more for their "suspension of disbelief" than the religious people.

The EP seems a funny place to go to pick an argument. Esp with your views on excessive drinking.

Also your drink/religion analogy is very limited IMO. There are people who use religion as a crutch, and those that use drink as a crutch. But start harping on to people at a music festival and they'll rightly shun you.

Why are you even going?

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Also your drink/religion analogy is very limited IMO. There are people who use religion as a crutch, and those that use drink as a crutch.

Elaborate?

But start harping on to people at a music festival and they'll rightly shun you.

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned.

Why are you even going?

To find out the truth. Come along.

cavedave

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned.

So you are going to spend hundreds of euro to go to where people are on holiday and badger them (under the delusion you are some sort of poor mans Socrates)? And people say atheists are no fun .
Would it not be cheaper to stand outside mass or on Grafton street and badger people? You could sell your ticket and buy some cakes with it as well.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Elaborate?

Too simplistic. Cursory or one eyed, even.

Yes it's risky, people don't like their beliefs / opinions questioned

Not at a frickin' music festival they don't!

To find out the truth. Come along.

I was at a festival last week and much as I like a good theological discussion I just wanted to drink pints with my mates and listen to the music. The pints weren't a "crutch" either, they were just pints. So I'll skip this one, thanks!

5uspect

cavedave wrote:

Ah the classic "you are too stupid to be an atheist" argument.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Youre-too-stupid-to-be-an-atheist

I love this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRmC0DaE6rE&mode=related&search=

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

Too simplistic. Cursory or one eyed, even.

Not at a frickin' music festival they don't!

I was at a festival last week and much as I like a good theological discussion I just wanted to drink pints with my mates and listen to the music. The pints weren't a "crutch" either, they were just pints. So I'll skip this one, thanks!

are my my own on this one?
For me there's a bit of a Plato's cave here.
To the religious man, religion is not a crutch.
To the drinks man, the pints are not a crutch.
To me, they look like very similar shadows in the cave cast for the same reasons.

Does the artist need to have a few beers to enjoy painting?
Does the boards.ie poster need a vodka to enjoy posting?

Something is either enjoyable or not. I don't see how drink can all of sudden make something that isn't good, become good.

Help?

bringitdown

I like music, I like beer, beer + music ... sweet.

humanji

bringitdown wrote:

I like music, I like beer, beer + music ... sweet.

If you like music, why would you go to electric picnic?

bringitdown

Pffft ... opinions on the internet well I never.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

humanji wrote:

If you like music, why would you go to electric picnic?

You mean, pay €220 to go to expensive picnic. It's not about music, it's about getting treated like cattle, and lining a few fat cat pockets.
There are some excellant gigs that are free - 15 euro, I'd much prefer to go to.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

Something is either enjoyable or not. I don't see how drink can all of sudden make something that isn't good, become good.

I'm sorry, who said that?

Of course alcohol has it's very publicised dark side. But just because something can be abused doesn't mean every instance of it's enjoyment is abuse.

Reminds me of that old Catch 22.

Man drinking a pint: "I'm not an alcoholic."
Overzealous Pioneer: "The first sign of a problem is denial."
Man drinking a pint: "WTF?!"

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

I'm sorry, who said that?

Of course alcohol has it's very publicised dark side. But just because something can be abused doesn't mean every instance of it's enjoyment is abuse.

Reminds me of that old Catch 22.

Man drinking a pint: "I'm not an alcoholic."
Overzealous Pioneer: "The first sign of a problem is denial."
Man drinking a pint: "WTF?!"

Ok excuse the cheesy analogy which of course is not a logical argument but bear with me.

We know the argument theists use about God and morals. God says what is right or wrong. To which Plato replies, something is either intrinsicially right or wrong, something can't just be right or wrong because God says so.

To me an activity is either good or bad entertainment. A psycho active drug can't make something good that isn't already.
e.g. I watch Rugby because to me it's good. I don't have a few beers and then render it good - it's just good.
e.g. I enjoy some people's company because they are interesting and funny. I don't need beers to enjoy their company.
e.g. some people may not be so much fun, drink may make their company more bearable but it's all an illusion, their company for what it really is n't much fun.

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

Comments...

humanji

So you're saying that you can't change your mind? It's not possible to not like rugby after a while? We, as humans, live in the now. If alcohol makes the now more bearable, then how is that a bad thing?

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

humanji wrote:

So you're saying that you can't change your mind? It's not possible to not like rugby after a while? We, as humans, live in the now. If alcohol makes the now more bearable, then how is that a bad thing?

I think it's better to like something for what it really is. Alcohol hides an objects true essence.
Here's a simple one for you:
We've all gone to a nightclub met a girl, when drunk, thought they were great and then met them again sober only to revise our opinions.
Now if we only live once, while these stories can be funny they are actual a waste of time of our only life.

Dades

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distory your sense data and emotion reactions. Things are what they really are. We either take and deal with them for what they really are or else we try to convince ourselves or trick ourselves they are something else.

Do you have pointed ears and green blood? Because that sounds a bit Vulcan* to me.

* Vulcan was already in my firefox spellcheck - yay!

Ciaran500

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

Comments...

Surely anything that can change your emotional state can do this, foods, music, other people, sleep, weather all change your emotional state and how we perceive the world around us.

Think of how something can easily things can annoy you early in the morning after a bad nights sleep.


Also:

Tim Robbins pictured earlier today

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

All drink does is distort your sense data and emotional reactions. So things appear different to what they actually really are. But even though the appearance may be different, the "essence" of it stays the same. Drink is a way of not dealing with the essence of anything. Drink can't make the essence of something good or bad entertainment, it is simple a way of avoiding the true essence.

I think it's better to like something for what it really is. Alcohol hides an objects true essence.
Here's a simple one for you:
We've all gone to a nightclub met a girl, when drunk, thought they were great and then met them again sober only to revise our opinions.
Now if we only live once, while these stories can be funny they are actual a waste of time of our only life.

I like being mildly drunk, and I like being stoned, and I find I have to take drink or drugs to achieve these states.

Of course, I also like computer games, which aren't real, sometimes in combination with the above. I also enjoy reading books, although my imagination tends to hide the fact that I'm holding a lump of dead tree with little markings on it.

I even converse with invisible people on my computer, although I cannot see their true essence...

existence precedes essence,
Scofflaw

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Ciaran500 wrote:

Surely anything that can change your emotional state can do this, foods, music, other people, sleep, weather all change your emotional state and how we perceive the world around us.

Yes but Drink is a bio-chemical pyscho active drug it's not part of natural bio system. The things you talk about are the natural world.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

The Atheist wrote:

Do you have pointed ears and green blood? Because that sounds a bit Vulcan* to me.

* Vulcan was already in my firefox spellcheck - yay!

Fair enough, The Atheist. But many people think this way, James Randi for example.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Scofflaw wrote:

I like being mildly drunk, and I like being stoned, and I find I have to take drink or drugs to achieve these states.

Of course, I also like computer games, which aren't real, sometimes in combination with the above. I also enjoy reading books, although my imagination tends to hide the fact that I'm holding a lump of dead tree with little markings on it.

I even converse with invisible people on my computer, although I cannot see their true essence...

existence precedes essence,
Scofflaw

So, are you coming to Mass or expensive picnic?

Ciaran500

Tim Robbins wrote:

Yes but Drink is a bio-chemical pyscho active drug it's not part of natural bio system. The things you talk about are the natural world.

So most foods and music are part of the "natural bio system" but alcohol isn't? Do you know what they make alcohol from?

DublinWriter

Mass or Electric Picnic?

How about neither.

Scofflaw

Tim Robbins wrote:

So, are you coming to Mass or expensive picnic?

I've already agreed on Mass with PDN, mildly drunk, with heckling.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Ciaran500 wrote:

So most foods and music are part of the "natural bio system" but alcohol isn't? Do you know what they make alcohol from?

Clever post. Here's my answer:
We need to eat, we don't need to drink alcohol.
Drink completly changes your preception of reality, toast doesn't.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

DublinWriter wrote:

Mass or Electric Picnic?

How about neither.

It's just a bit of fun, if you had to go to one, which would you pick?

DublinWriter

Tim Robbins wrote:

Drink completly changes your preception of reality, toast doesn't.

...and reality is a good-thing why exactly?

Besides, all realities are relative to the observer.

Zillah

Tim Robbins wrote:

Clever post. Here's my answer:
We need to eat, we don't need to drink alcohol.
Drink completly changes your preception of reality, toast doesn't.

A few drinks will change my perception of the world no more than a fine meal with a chocolate dessert shared with friends. Everything changes your perception of reality. Your straw grasping attempts to demonise alcohol are becoming desperate.

Christ, you even tried to play the "natural" card ffs.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

Zillah wrote:

A few drinks will change my perception of the world no more than a fine meal with a chocolate dessert shared with friends.

Silly. Next you'll be saying we better watch what we eat before we drive.

Tim Robbins

Electric Picnic

DublinWriter wrote:

...and reality is a good-thing why exactly?

Reality is reality. Whether it's a good thing is not the point. You either want reality sober for what it is, you wish to distort it because you cannot deal with it.

DublinWriter wrote:

Besides, all realities are relative to the observer.

It doesn't exist for the intoxicated.