Champions League Third Round Winners and Group Draw Thread

mike65

I think I have all the teams listed!

Celtic
Fenerbahce
Arsenal
Besiktas
Werder Bremen
Dynamo Kiev
Benfica
Valencia
Rosenborg
Shakhtar Donetsk
Slavia Prague
Steaua Bucuresti
Rangers
Lazio
Liverpool

Internazionale
Milan
Roma
Real Madrid
Barcelona
Manchester United
Chelsea
Olympique Lyonnais
Olympique de Marseille
Stuttgart
Schalke 04
Porto
Sporting
PSV Eindhoven
Olym-piacos

The draw is at 5 pm I think.

Mike.

AdrianII

No easy draws there

el rabitos

i predict it will go as usual for the big 4

united get the easy group
liverpool get the tricky group
chelsea get barcelona
arsenal get the eastern europeans

eirebhoy

el rabitos wrote:

i predict it will go as usual for the big 4

united get the easy group
liverpool get the tricky group

that must be what bias does?

mike65

I'd nearly bet on Liverpool drawing either Real, Barca or Valencia.

Mike.

Vokes

Is that in order of 1st seeds, 2nd seeds, 3rd, etc... Mike ?

zAbbo

What way is it seeded ?

mike65

Coefficent list

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/news/kind=1/newsid=551776.html

Mike.

lpool2k05

1st Seeds

AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Liverpool, Inter Milan, Arsenal, Chelsea ,Man Utd


Obviously it means 1st seeded teams cannot meet each other in the group stage
Id imagine Celtic and Rangers are 3rd Seeds and by my calculation theres a 62.5% chance that celtic or rangers will meet an english club hopefully celtic get Utd again!!:D

KdjaCL

Pot 1                          coef.     Pot 2                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
AC Milan (TH)            Ita 133.808     Valencia ***             Esp  99.374
FC Barcelona             Esp 119.374     Olympique Lyon           Fra  95.706
Liverpool ***            Eng 112.618     FC Porto                 Por  89.107
Internazionale           Ita 107.808     Sevilla ***              Esp  87.374
Arsenal ***              Eng 104.618     PSV Eindhoven            Ned  81.995
Real Madrid              Esp 104.374     AS Roma                  Ita  78.808
Chelsea                  Eng  99.618     Benfica ***              Por  67.107
Manchester United        Eng  99.618     Werder Bremen ***        Ger  63.640

Pot 3                          coef.     Pot 4                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
Celtic ***               Sco  62.064     Glasgow Rangers **       Sco  47.064
Schalke 04               Ger  60.640     Shakhtar Donetsk **      Ukr  44.726
VfB Stuttgart            Ger  58.640     Besiktas **              Tur  43.791
Steaua Bucuresti **      Rom  55.255     *******kos Piraeus       Gre  42.415
CSKA Moscow              Rus  53.920     Dinamo Kiev ***          Ukr  38.726
Sporting CP Lisbon       Por  52.107     Fenerbahçe ***           Tur  36.791
Lazio Roma ***           Ita  51.808     Slavia Praha **          Cze  32.851
Olympique Marseille      Fra  51.706     Rosenborg BK **          Nor  31.509

heh pats have a coefficent of 2.145

kdjac

lpool2k05

KdjaCL wrote:

Pot 1                          coef.     Pot 2                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
AC Milan (TH)            Ita 133.808     Valencia ***             Esp  99.374
FC Barcelona             Esp 119.374     Olympique Lyon           Fra  95.706
Liverpool ***            Eng 112.618     FC Porto                 Por  89.107
Internazionale           Ita 107.808     Sevilla ***              Esp  87.374
Arsenal ***              Eng 104.618     PSV Eindhoven            Ned  81.995
Real Madrid              Esp 104.374     AS Roma                  Ita  78.808
Chelsea                  Eng  99.618     Benfica ***              Por  67.107
Manchester United        Eng  99.618     Werder Bremen ***        Ger  63.640

Pot 3                          coef.     Pot 4                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
Celtic ***               Sco  62.064     Glasgow Rangers **       Sco  47.064
Schalke 04               Ger  60.640     Shakhtar Donetsk **      Ukr  44.726
VfB Stuttgart            Ger  58.640     Besiktas **              Tur  43.791
Steaua Bucuresti **      Rom  55.255     *******kos Piraeus       Gre  42.415
CSKA Moscow              Rus  53.920     Dinamo Kiev ***          Ukr  38.726
Sporting CP Lisbon       Por  52.107     Fenerbahçe ***           Tur  36.791
Lazio Roma ***           Ita  51.808     Slavia Praha **          Cze  32.851
Olympique Marseille      Fra  51.706     Rosenborg BK **          Nor  31.509

heh pats have a coefficent of 2.145

kdjac

Ideal for liverpool would be PSV,Marseille and Rosenborg

Love Utd to get Lyon,Celtic and Shakhtar Donetsk

eirebhoy

Them bloody 4th seeds are the worst. I'd fancy Celtic's chances at home to Madrid more than I would against someone like Besiktas. I'd love to get Madrid. Celtic have played all the others in the last few years.

btw - Spartak Moscow are 40/1 to win the UEFA cup. Not a bad each way bet.

Necronomicon

el rabitos wrote:

i predict it will go as usual for the big 4

united get the easy group
liverpool get the tricky group

Just like the season before last, when United drew the eventual quarter and semi finalists?

What are the stars next to some of the names in the pots for?

eirebhoy

Necromomicon wrote:

What are the stars next to some of the names in the pots for?

Celtic started in the 3rd qualifying round, Rangers started in the 2nd.

Galvasean

Weird how Arsenal are still a top seed despite having to qualify from playoffs two years in a row now. (i know thats not how it works but..)

Exit

KdjaCL wrote:

Pot 1                          coef.     Pot 2                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
AC Milan (TH)            Ita 133.808     Valencia ***             Esp  99.374
FC Barcelona             Esp 119.374     Olympique Lyon           Fra  95.706
Liverpool ***            Eng 112.618     FC Porto                 Por  89.107
Internazionale           Ita 107.808     Sevilla ***              Esp  87.374
Arsenal ***              Eng 104.618     PSV Eindhoven            Ned  81.995
Real Madrid              Esp 104.374     AS Roma                  Ita  78.808
Chelsea                  Eng  99.618     Benfica ***              Por  67.107
Manchester United        Eng  99.618     Werder Bremen ***        Ger  63.640

Pot 3                          coef.     Pot 4                          coef.
------------------------ --- -------     ------------------------ --- -------
Celtic ***               Sco  62.064     Glasgow Rangers **       Sco  47.064
Schalke 04               Ger  60.640     Shakhtar Donetsk **      Ukr  44.726
VfB Stuttgart            Ger  58.640     Besiktas **              Tur  43.791
Steaua Bucuresti **      Rom  55.255     *******kos Piraeus       Gre  42.415
CSKA Moscow              Rus  53.920     Dinamo Kiev ***          Ukr  38.726
Sporting CP Lisbon       Por  52.107     Fenerbahçe ***           Tur  36.791
Lazio Roma ***           Ita  51.808     Slavia Praha **          Cze  32.851
Olympique Marseille      Fra  51.706     Rosenborg BK **          Nor  31.509

heh pats have a coefficent of 2.145

kdjac

Who are the Greek side that the board is filtering?

eirebhoy

Exit wrote:

Who are the Greek side that the board is filtering?

Testing ... *******

Olympíakos

eh, why is that filtered?

leninbenjamin

eirebhoy wrote:

Testing ... *******

Olympíakos

eh, why is that filtered?

ah, i've figured it out. MCD venue i gather?

~Rebel~

im betting pool get Valencia, Marseille and Rangers.
Rafa's return, Cisse's return and a battle of britain (also as i just had to pick a team from pot 4), but i bet we'll get the first 2!

Nalz

What way does the coef work? What timescale is it based on(i.e. last 5 years in CL)?

Mr Alan

I can't believe i'm saying this, but i would'nt actually be afraid of getting any team in this, previous years have been quite different

Vokes

Trilla wrote:

What way does the coef work? What timescale is it based on(i.e. last 5 years in CL)?

Yeh, 5 years.

So all the points accumalated in Europe (leaving out qualifying rounds) the previous 5 years + a third of their national league's coefficient.

patmac

Trilla wrote:

What way does the coef work? What timescale is it based on(i.e. last 5 years in CL)?

Everything you need to know here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/

PHB

I'm hopeful we get a really tough group. No really big names in the second seeds, if I had to pick the toughest group I'd pick
Valencia
Lazio
Shakhtar Donetsk

It's not really ideal, but I'd like a tough group to get it going.

Mr. Presentable

Couple of real dangerous ones in pot 3

Raskolnikov

I would say Inter, Porto, Marseille and Rosenborg would be the weakest teams in each of their pots.

AirDemon

I'm not too bothered about who United get, we're going to make everything harder than it is anyway, we always do.

Liverpool could do really well in Europe this year, they've always seemed to do better than they should in the last few years. (My oppinion, don't agree with it then fine, but you aint going to change it)

A tough group might be good for United though, the easier a group is the more we tend to underestimate the amount of effort it will take to win.

Hope we (United) get Valencia, Celtic and either Ol impiakos or Fenerbache (tough away games)

Mr Alan

for once me and all the mancs agree, i hope ye get a tough as fu*k group as well!

DSB

Raskolnikov wrote:

I would say Inter, Porto, Marseille and Rosenborg would be the weakest teams in each of their pots.

I'd have said Liverpool, Benfica, Steaua and Slavia Prague. Think the fact that Porto finished ahead of Benfica speaks for itself.

gandalf

As an Arsenal fan I would prefer to avoid Eastern European and Turkish teams.

Mr Alan

Liverpool CL finalists in 2 of the last 3 years? Don't think so mate

DSB

Doesn't change the fact that all those teams are stronger sides than them.

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

As an Arsenal fan I would prefer to avoid Eastern European and Turkish teams.

.........and PSV and Barca Id imagine?!

The Rooster

Over a two leg tie, assuming no injury problems, there would be practically nothing between the 4 English teams, and there is no other team they should be afraid of. Barca have the potential to be better, but we'll see.

Two English teams will make the semi-finals of the Champions League in 2008.

Mr Alan

and one English team will win it

PHB

Don't forget there's been an English team in the final for the last three years

millersangel

millersangel wrote:

and one English team will win it

Well ur hardly gonna have 2 winners now are ya!!

I could easily see a Milan vs Barca Final this year. With Ronalso playin Milan will have more pace goin forward than they did and with Kaka pulling the strings of that itll be tought to stop.


And Barca, well Yaya Toure was a great signing for what they need, plus Henry, Milito, the emergence of dos Santos and the further development of Messi, theyre gonna be very tough to beat.

Raskolnikov

Inter may have won the league last year, but with Milan crippled and Juventus relegated, it wasn't hard. Historically, they have always been poor in Europe too. I watched them last year and they were far from convincing in the group stages and were easily dispatched by Valencia. I see a lot of players on the team living on past reputations (Figo, Cambiasso, Adriano) and even more players who can't seem to play consistantly (practically everyone on the team). Not only that, but they simply cannot hold a lead when faced with pressure.

I would definitely fancy my chances against them.

Raskolnikov

Raskolnikov wrote:

Inter may have won the league last year, but with Milan crippled and Juventus relegated, it wasn't hard. Historically, they have always been poor in Europe too. I watched them last year and they were far from convincing in the group stages and were easily dispatched by Valencia. I see a lot of players on the team living on past reputations (Figo, Cambiasso, Adriano) and even more players who can't seem to play consistantly (practically everyone on the team). Not only that, but they simply cannot hold a lead when faced with pressure.

I would definitely fancy my chances against them.

They beat us 3-2 pre season!! But were destroyed by Barca last night!


I dont see Inter doin anythig. They defaulted the league the last 2 years.

Mr Alan

yea but in fairness neil . . . .you's can't even beat Reading

Necronomicon

What's happening with Seville? I presume themselves and AEK are in different pots, so how can they be grouped together in the draw?

Edit: I found an article on the BBC, which said:

Sevilla, who hold a 2-0 lead from the first leg, will be among the group of second seeds while AEK Athens are ranked among one of the bottom seeds.

Uefa general secretary David Taylor told uefa.com: "The draw will take place on Thursday at 1700 BST, as scheduled.

"There are additional complications this season related to the tragic and unforeseen circumstances that caused the postponement of the AEK Athens v Sevilla match.

"This means that both clubs will be 'provisionally' entered in this season's competition."

Maybe I'm missing something, but how will it work? Will there be a group with 5 teams until they know who goes through?

5starpool

That is a good question.

/toddles off the the uefa website for a look.

Edit: There is some kind of 'Pairing' thing that is clear as mud, but only seems to affect scheduling I think

Pairings
Where two clubs from the same association have qualified, they are paired to split their matches between Tuesday and Wednesday. In the case of associations with three representatives, only two sides have been paired in terms of their fixtures; in the case of associations with four representatives, two pairings are made. Sevilla and AEK have been paired with two different teams to provide for the eventuality of either side winning. For seeding purposes, the team with the higher coefficient (i.e. Sevilla FC) take precedence. In order to safeguard the country protection, the pairing will not be drawn against Spanish or Greek teams. Meanwhile, PFC CSKA Moskva and Rosenborg BK will be assigned position one or three in their groups to allow them to play away on Matchday 6 in the hope of avoiding bad weather.

They are both listed as being in Pot 2 for the purposes of the draw, but I don't know if they are both second seeds though?

The Rooster

If AEK won, then Celtic would have been 2nd seeds and Rangers 3rd seeds.

I dont see why they couldnt postponse the draw till Tuesday.

Great bonus for AEK jumping from 4th to 2nd seeds if they do make it.

Seaneh

Raskolnikov wrote:

I would say Inter, Porto, Marseille and Rosenborg would be the weakest teams in each of their pots.

You think inter are the weakest team in pot one?

Do you even watch football?

balkieb2002

Heard someone saying that they'll both be given pot 2 status though don't see how that can work.

BBC wasn't much more help, I'll try sky or wait for 5starpool to write back with offical word

The Rooster

balkieb2002 wrote:

Heard someone saying that they'll both be given pot 2 status though don't see how that can work.

BBC wasn't much more help, I'll try sky or wait for 5starpool to write back with offical word

There'll be one team in Pot 2 called "Sevilla/AEK".

So whoever wins will be 2nd seeds

5starpool

I'm more confused than ever. All I can assume is that they are both second seeds I am too demoralised by the lack of clarity on Uefa's website to look anywhere else for it.

Seaneh

Raskolnikov wrote:

Inter may have won the league last year, but with Milan crippled and Juventus relegated, it wasn't hard. Historically, they have always been poor in Europe too. I watched them last year and they were far from convincing in the group stages and were easily dispatched by Valencia. I see a [/b[lot of players on the team living on past reputations (Figo, Cambiasso, Adriano)[/b] and even more players who can't seem to play consistantly (practically everyone on the team). Not only that, but they simply cannot hold a lead when faced with pressure.

I would definitely fancy my chances against them.

Esteban Cambiasso is 27, has been playing out of his skin for the last two years had has imporved if anything since he moved to inter.

Inter have, probably, the best squad depth in the world, thier choice of defenders is sickening, thier midfeild is bigger than chelseas and thier attacker are fairly handy too.

You are talking through your hole mate, and I'm an A.C. Fan.

The Rooster

Seaneh wrote:

You think inter are the weakest team in pot one?

Do you even watch football?

Your final statement is ridiculous.

A perfectly valid opinion to think Inter are the weakest in Pot 1.

Not much between any of the teams and most will depend on how they cope with their new players and without the players who have left. Personally I'd rank Inter as the 2nd weakest.

EDIT - of course I'm talking how teams will likely do in the CL, not their own league.

balkieb2002

Cheers The Rooster thanks for clearing that up. So presuming that AEK overturn the 2 goals to go through they will be second seeds. That not very fair on celtic as they could get easier/harder group as second seeds. Suppose only time will tell.