FE1 Exam Thread (Mod Warning: NO ADS)

JCJCJC

Hogzy wrote: »

I have no Problem with this JC, Missing Prague because of the Law Soc will only make a grey January even duller. Ill take notes if you bring me back a bottle of Pilsner Urquell. Love that stuff.

Thanks Hogzy. If i don't go to this seminar, there'll be interference with the TV signal for the rest of 2013...
We might go for a pint after the seminar so the day isn't a total loss, eh?

JC

JCJCJC

Url to the Lawsoc's seminar:

http://www.lawsociety.ie/training-contract-2013.aspx

Strawberry Fields

JCJCJC wrote: »

Url to the Lawsoc's seminar:

http://www.lawsociety.ie/training-contract-2013.aspx

Hey JC,

How much is this seminar? Is there a cap on numbers?
Oh I see 35 quids, will it be worth it?

chops018

godeas16 wrote: »

Hey JC,

How much is this seminar? Is there a cap on numbers?
Oh I see 35 quids, will it be worth it?

I wouldn't say it would be any harm to go to. I got the letter last week, dunno yet if I will go or not though.

KoukiKeith

Afternoon all

Would anyone be able/willing to give me a quick breakdown of the topics that appeared in the Autumn & Spring '12 EU Law papers? It'd be much appreciated.

Jev/N

I dunno if that seminar would be worth bothering with considering the vast majority of the larger firms (if that's who you're primarily aiming for) have long done away with the standard CV and cover letter in favour of the online application form

Hogzy

Jev/N wrote: »

I dunno if that seminar would be worth bothering with considering the vast majority of the larger firms (if that's who you're primarily aiming for) have long done away with the standard CV and cover letter in favour of the online application form

The seminar is more applicable to those who are on the search for an apprenticeship in smaller firms which would account for a huge amount of trainee. Probably more than the top firms.

LegallyAbroad

Hogzy wrote: »

The seminar is more applicable to those who are on the search for an apprenticeship in smaller firms which would account for a huge amount of trainee. Probably more than the top firms.

Do you think so?

Just thinking about the people I know myself, I'd say I know 15-20 currently in, or who have offers in the big firms (AC, A&L, WF, McCann Fitz, Byrne Wallace, MHC). But I genuinely don't know a single person with a traineeship outside of the big Dublin firms.

Obviously the people I know personally are a very small sample group of legal graduates, but still - must be due to going to college in Dublin.

Hogzy

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Do you think so?

Just thinking about the people I know myself, I'd say I know 15-20 currently in, or who have offers in the big firms (AC, A&L, WF, McCann Fitz, Byrne Wallace, MHC). But I genuinely don't know a single person with a traineeship outside of the big Dublin firms.

Obviously the people I know personally are a very small sample group of legal graduates, but still - must be due to going to college in Dublin.

Well how many people are taken on each year by the large firms?

LegallyAbroad

Hogzy wrote: »

Well how many people are taken on each year by the large firms?

Well, extrapolating from bits and pieces of isolated data I have (for example I know one firm took on 25 over the next 2 years from applications, but then took the same amount from internship - or so I'm told, so 25 for the annual intake), I'd say the top 5 take on a 100 or so?

Stab in the dark as to the next 5 or so firms - maybe 40ish (again just working off one of the 5-10 range of firms who are taking on 8-12, so being a little conservative)?

How many take up traineeships annually (I genuinely have no idea- so if you have the numbers, that'd be super).

I wasn't disagreeing with you by the way, more registering my surprise based on my own experiences.

Hogzy

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Well, extrapolating from bits and pieces of isolated data I have (for example I know one firm took on 25 over the next 2 years from applications, but then took the same amount from internship - or so I'm told, so 25 for the annual intake), I'd say the top 5 take on a 100 or so?

Stab in the dark as to the next 5 or so firms - maybe 40ish (again just working off one of the 5-10 range of firms who are taking on 8-12, so being a little conservative)?

How many take up traineeships annually (I genuinely have no idea- so if you have the numbers, that'd be super).

I wasn't disagreeing with you by the way, more registering my surprise based on my own experiences.

Oh I know, Maybe i jumped the gun a bit in saying that the majority of trainees are in smaller firms. Maybe someone in PPC 1 or 2 would have a better idea.

LegallyAbroad

Hogzy wrote: »

Oh I know, Maybe i jumped the gun a bit in saying that the majority of trainees are in smaller firms. Maybe someone in PPC 1 or 2 would have a better idea.

320 according to a random poster here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056555586&page=8

May92

Hey, whats everyone's opinion on sitting all 8 FE1s in one sitting? (got a 1st in my law degree which I completed last year, but not a very motivated person...usually left all my study to the last week before exams) Is it feasible to attempt all 8 at once?

Hogzy

May92 wrote: »

Hey, whats everyone's opinion on sitting all 8 FE1s in one sitting? (got a 1st in my law degree which I completed last year, but not a very motivated person...usually left all my study to the last week before exams) Is it feasible to attempt all 8 at once?

Not if you leave all the study until the week before the exams.

FE1's are a whole different kettle of fish in comparison to 3rd Level law exams. ALOT more preparation is needed. My rule of thumb was to give at least 2 weeks of study per subject. But that is me and different people consume information in different ways, some more efficient than others.

chops018

May92 wrote: »

Hey, whats everyone's opinion on sitting all 8 FE1s in one sitting? (got a 1st in my law degree which I completed last year, but not a very motivated person...usually left all my study to the last week before exams) Is it feasible to attempt all 8 at once?

You can certainly give it a go and there has been stories of people pulling it off. It would take a serious amount of dedication, you simply must know nearly everything in order to pass, and not only that, but be able to apply it well.

May92

Ok, thanks your input...Its just that friends of mine are going travelling and I would love to go with them instead of following them out 4 months later after sitting a the second round of FE1s. Alternatively, I was considering sitting the first round, going travelling for a year, then coming back and sitting the remaining! Just worried that it would be hard to get back into study mode after going away for a year...

JCJCJC

May92 wrote: »

Ok, thanks your input...Its just that friends of mine are going travelling and I would love to go with them instead of following them out 4 months later after sitting a the second round of FE1s. Alternatively, I was considering sitting the first round, going travelling for a year, then coming back and sitting the remaining! Just worried that it would be hard to get back into study mode after going away for a year...

Well, all-eight has been done. On the basis that first-class hons degrees aren't given out lightly, you must be a very good student. I would say get a few past papers and make an honest assessment of how you'd fare in them. You ain't looking for an honour this time - a 50% pass is all you need. As Hogzy has said, this is a different scene altogether - the law society want cogent, accurate and up-to-date advice as a competent solicitor would give to a real client, and that's the style of answer that's wanted. Elaborate academic references and opinions are less relevant. The only note of caution I'd sound is in areas where there have been big recent shifts in the law, eg in Tort, the new Defamation Act has changed matters, in EU the Lisbon Treaty has changed everything, in land law, the Act with the big long name I can't remember has changed a huge number of things etc. If you did those subjects in college before the changes, you need to study the new stuff. I would strongly recommend the GCD one-day refresher courses, I did them all and I found them brilliant. I did the FE1 in criminal law nine years after I did it in college, and passed, with only a one-day revision seminar in GCD in between to guide me. I did exactly what Griffith's man advised and it worked - can't say any more than that.
I'd say - on balance - go for it.

chops018

JCJCJC wrote: »

Well, all-eight has been done. On the basis that first-class hons degrees aren't given out lightly, you must be a very good student. I would say get a few past papers and make an honest assessment of how you'd fare in them. You ain't looking for an honour this time - a 50% pass is all you need. As Hogzy has said, this is a different scene altogether - the law society want cogent, accurate and up-to-date advice as a competent solicitor would give to a real client, and that's the style of answer that's wanted. Elaborate academic references and opinions are less relevant. The only note of caution I'd sound is in areas where there have been big recent shifts in the law, eg in Tort, the new Defamation Act has changed matters, in EU the Lisbon Treaty has changed everything, in land law, the Act with the big long name I can't remember has changed a huge number of things etc. If you did those subjects in college before the changes, you need to study the new stuff. I would strongly recommend the GCD one-day refresher courses, I did them all and I found them brilliant. I did the FE1 in criminal law nine years after I did it in college, and passed, with only a one-day revision seminar in GCD in between to guide me. I did exactly what Griffith's man advised and it worked - can't say any more than that.
I'd say - on balance - go for it.

Just a question for you JC, what materials do they give you in the one day refreshers?

May92

JCJCJC wrote: »

Well, all-eight has been done. On the basis that first-class hons degrees aren't given out lightly, you must be a very good student. I would say get a few past papers and make an honest assessment of how you'd fare in them. You ain't looking for an honour this time - a 50% pass is all you need. As Hogzy has said, this is a different scene altogether - the law society want cogent, accurate and up-to-date advice as a competent solicitor would give to a real client, and that's the style of answer that's wanted. Elaborate academic references and opinions are less relevant. The only note of caution I'd sound is in areas where there have been big recent shifts in the law, eg in Tort, the new Defamation Act has changed matters, in EU the Lisbon Treaty has changed everything, in land law, the Act with the big long name I can't remember has changed a huge number of things etc. If you did those subjects in college before the changes, you need to study the new stuff. I would strongly recommend the GCD one-day refresher courses, I did them all and I found them brilliant. I did the FE1 in criminal law nine years after I did it in college, and passed, with only a one-day revision seminar in GCD in between to guide me. I did exactly what Griffith's man advised and it worked - can't say any more than that.
I'd say - on balance - go for it.

Thanks JC, thats pretty good advice! I just looked up the GCD one-day courses though and it says they are held for 2 weeks in September, and seeing as I would be sitting the exams in October I think that would be leaving it very late! Or would it still make sense to study away myself all summer and go to the refresher courses in September then anyway?

chops018

May92 wrote: »

Thanks JC, thats pretty good advice! I just looked up the GCD one-day courses though and it says they are held for 2 weeks in September, and seeing as I would be sitting the exams in October I think that would be leaving it very late! Or would it still make sense to study away myself all summer and go to the refresher courses in September then anyway?

Would you not sit 4 this coming March?

May92

chops018 wrote: »

Would you not sit 4 this coming March?

Currently doing a masters so can't, unfortunately! That's why sitting all 8 at once is looking like the most appealing, if not the most unrealistic, option for me at the moment.

Predalien

May92 wrote: »

Currently doing a masters so can't, unfortunately! That's why sitting all 8 at once is looking like the most appealing, if not the most unrealistic, option for me at the moment.

Maybe try for the middle ground, do six in your first go then travel for 11 months and give yourself a month to study for (hopefully) the last two?

May92

Predalien wrote: »

Maybe try for the middle ground, do six in your first go then travel for 11 months and give yourself a month to study for (hopefully) the last two?

Ya thats definitely a possibility! But then I was kind of just thinking of using that as my back-up. Like what do I really have to lose by sitting all 8? If i pass, then great, and if i fail 2 or 3, then can always do them when I come back from travelling...does that make any sense though? Or am I potentially setting myself up for failing more because of not giving sufficient time to any...so confused!

Strawberry Fields

May92 wrote: »

Ya thats definitely a possibility! But then I was kind of just thinking of using that as my back-up. Like what do I really have to lose by sitting all 8? If i pass, then great, and if i fail 2 or 3, then can always do them when I come back from travelling...does that make any sense though? Or am I potentially setting myself up for failing more because of not giving sufficient time to any...so confused!

I remember talking to a Griffith lecturer who said that a first class honours student came to him for advice having not got 3 of the first 4 first time round. Just a word of caution as I think they are different to undergrad. However I can't advise cause I'm not that clever.:pac:

JCJCJC

chops018 wrote: »

Just a question for you JC, what materials do they give you in the one day refreshers?

It varies a little from subject to subject. They give you exam grids and worked answers for several sittings right up to the most recent. They give you an examiner profile which is very good - I tend to 'play the man' - get inside his head and know his interests, that sort of approach. They used to give substantial chunks, if not all, of their manuals but I think they have stopped that due to the lively trade in manuals which breaches the licence agreement, plenty info on that back along the threads here.
If you do the course and fail, you get 50% off the next time, which is pretty decent.

JCJCJC

May92 wrote: »

Thanks JC, thats pretty good advice! I just looked up the GCD one-day courses though and it says they are held for 2 weeks in September, and seeing as I would be sitting the exams in October I think that would be leaving it very late! Or would it still make sense to study away myself all summer and go to the refresher courses in September then anyway?

They are held before each sitting, Spring and Autumn. GCD update their site in good time. I think you need to get your head straight on tactics, if you'll forgive the bluntness. When are you planning to go to Blackhall Place? That's the big question. If the answer is Sept 2013, then you need all eight next March. If it's Sept 2014, then you have three sittings to get them - a lot less pressure. If I were you and had a 1.1, I'd go for the eight - you'll impress an employer with a hit-rate like that. LLMs are fine and grand, but are you aiming to be an academic lawyer, or a solicitor? the big advantage you have in doing the LLM is you have access to a college law library and the online databases, that's a huge resource - you won't realise how valuable it is until your college log-in dies. Do your FE1s while you have that, and you can look up articles etc. by your examiners - it pays off.

May92

JCJCJC wrote: »

They are held before each sitting, Spring and Autumn. GCD update their site in good time. I think you need to get your head straight on tactics, if you'll forgive the bluntness. When are you planning to go to Blackhall Place? That's the big question. If the answer is Sept 2013, then you need all eight next March. If it's Sept 2014, then you have three sittings to get them - a lot less pressure. If I were you and had a 1.1, I'd go for the eight - you'll impress an employer with a hit-rate like that. LLMs are fine and grand, but are you aiming to be an academic lawyer, or a solicitor? the big advantage you have in doing the LLM is you have access to a college law library and the online databases, that's a huge resource - you won't realise how valuable it is until your college log-in dies. Do your FE1s while you have that, and you can look up articles etc. by your examiners - it pays off.

Thanks, all advice is appreciated! I have a training contract for one the top 5 law firms in Dublin already, for Sept 2015...so I know that I have more than enough time to pass them all between now and then. First possible chance i'd get to sit the exams is October 2013 though as I do not want to take on that work while doing a masters. And as i'm planning on going travelling in Jan 2014 my options are all 8, or leaving some until I come back. This is potentially very risky though as if i fail any then i will be unable to start in 2015. To be honest I think my complete lack of knowledge about the FE1s that is making it so hard for me to know how to approach them!

I completely get what you're saying about using college law libraries and online databases but that wouldn't be a problem as I have plenty of friends still in college who will happily give me their log in details when I need them.

JCJCJC

May92 wrote: »

Thanks, all advice is appreciated! I have a training contract for one the top 5 law firms in Dublin already, for Sept 2015...so I know that I have more than enough time to pass them all between now and then. First possible chance i'd get to sit the exams is October 2013 though as I do not want to take on that work while doing a masters. And as i'm planning on going travelling in Jan 2014 my options are all 8, or leaving some until I come back. This is potentially very risky though as if i fail any then i will be unable to start in 2015. To be honest I think my complete lack of knowledge about the FE1s that is making it so hard for me to know how to approach them!

I completely get what you're saying about using college law libraries and online databases but that wouldn't be a problem as I have plenty of friends still in college who will happily give me their log in details when I need them.

What colour 2012 BMW coupe have they given you? I'll wave from my bicycle when I see it ;-) Lucky sod!!!

A log-in in college is handy - I know. But be careful - they do check now and then. Aim for a law student if you can. When I was doing the FE1s, I had magic numbers for UL and NUIG, beyond useful. Also, any practising solicitor or barrister can borrow books from the Law Society and the Four Courts library, it can be useful. In UL, every half-useful book is on short loan only and destroyed with bloody highlighters.
As as aside - I've been using Healy's book on Law of Evidence in the past few days - anyone doing constitutional in the FE1s would benefit from it, on unconstitutionally-obtained evidence etc, it's probably better than the straight constitutional law textbooks.

May92

Haha no car yet!! Getting the TC is the only reason i'm going down this route tbh! Wouldn't have even contemplated doing the FE1s without one. Now just to get my head around the whole process is a different story...tough decisions to be made!

Thanks for all your help!

JCJCJC

May92 wrote: »

Haha no car yet!! Getting the TC is the only reason i'm going down this route tbh! Wouldn't have even contemplated doing the FE1s without one. Now just to get my head around the whole process is a different story...tough decisions to be made!

Thanks for all your help!

Well I was promised a TC even before I did a LLM, based on my wide life experience, extensive contact network of interesting people who frequently need good lawyers and of course my rugged good looks ;-) That solr isn't practising now...the times have changed.