FE1 Exam Thread (Mod Warning: NO ADS)

Legal Exec

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

But, say the Law Society investigated this in the morning would they find it legal......no?! Well I learn something new every day! did not know this was happening. No wonder none of my emails stand out to companies.................i should be offering few thousand than they may respond:rolleyes:

Once you are getting the tuition in excess of the contract.

It's open to exploitation- which I condemn and repudiate but like I said its working without the law being broken and everyone being tax compliant.

It seems to be a technicality which enthusiastic students are availing of...

legal eagle 1

But, i dont understand what extra tuition you are getting?? surely if this is all legal and above board than all solicitors would be demanding fees from prospective trainees??

Legal Exec

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

But, i dont understand what extra tuition you are getting?? surely if this is all legal and above board than all solicitors would be demanding fees from prospective trainees??

Some of them aren't asking for it up front- just choosing from those who offer the most via e-mail/ fax with their CV.

The tuition is a matter for both parties to decide upon and is cleverly knitted into the trainee's PPC programs.

A solicitor has only to state by way of a Section 68 letter that their professional fee will not exceed for example €250.00 per hour meaning the trainee's wages would be quickly gobbled back up again for a short weekly session to get him/her prepped up for the PPC exams...

legal eagle 1

Out of curiousity have you personally seen any of these emails or faxes? Does the prospective trainee just offer a figure to the solicitor in respect of taking them on and offering them extra tuition straight out like in an initial email/fax?! So the trainees wages are 'paid' straight back to the solicitor for so called 'tuition' time hmmm:rolleyes:

Legal Exec

I know of this practice by having heard other students telling me it happens in their office and from stories abound the profession.

I have given you all the insight I can and wish you the very best in obtaining your contract.

I am sure all visitors to this board who obtain their contracts do so in a wholly legal manner.

To attempt to do so in another manner would be an affront to the profession and a breach of statutory law which I have already said I would find reprehensibile.

The least I can do as a human being is inform people like you who are putting in a hard slog in what for many is the best years of their lives just what exactly you are up against....

legal eagle 1

Thanks for the insight Legal Exec and thank you for answering my twenty questions on it;)
Just another stupid obstacle..........as if i didnt have enough to deal with

Legal Exec

And if we get over them we will ask- what the f*ck did we ever go through all that for!

legal eagle 1

Too true:rolleyes:

legallad

just out of interest how many hours are others putting into their study for the upcoming fe1s? I am begining to question am I presently doing enough and whether I need to step it up a gear!

Legal Exec

And don't forget that the deadline is 5 p.m. Friday August 7!

The postal rule does not apply and the Law Soc require the €110 per exam delivered by then.

Whatever times work for your good self lad- anything between 30 mins and 4 hrs per day from here on in

sarahchristinem

I was emailing a solicitor in March about a traineeship- I would just copy and paste the email and responses, but for confidentiality, I will just paste the text;

Dear Sara
>>We have had very many trainees over the years Our financial position
>>is
>
>>now such that we would need to charge people to train here .
>>
>>Thank You

__________________________

What sort of charges would that entail?
>
>Thank You
__________________________

Sarah,
>I have not thought of this concept before I was merely remarking on the

>general economic situation
>Our office does need urgent and immediate cash flow .
>If I was to consider education as an income stream for our offices, and

>I would have to give this some more thought it would be in the form
>of a once off lump sum payment.
>Thank You
_____________________

What would the lump sum be in the region of?

Thank you
___________

Sarah
If I was to do it , I think it would be 50k

_______________

legal eagle 1

50k...................what the hell?! I can think of better things to do if i had that type of money and it sure as hell wouldnt be paying a solicitor to take me on!

Legal Exec

This is the scale of debt that a lot of firms are in.

I have heard stories as I say of €1,500 to €2,000 but it looks like some firms who are about to go under are starting to chance it.

The bottom line is that no-one loses out at €1,500-€2,000 and it becomes akin to a Barrister's devilship.

No-one could afford the money this dude is talking about so I think it will stay around the €1,500-€2,000 level.

legal eagle 1

Legal Exec......you've kept me awake all night with what you told us :rolleyes:
I've been thinking bout it but, I dunno something about this makes me feel a bit uneasy, i cant put my finger on what it is though!

legal eagle 1

Actually would any of the moderators or even solicitors here have an opinion on this idea of paying a solicitor to give you a training contract??
Legal Eagle would love to hear your opinions

Legal Exec

That will keep ya sleepless for a while

legal eagle 1

That will keep ya sleepless for a while

Hehe too right i swear since i've started this training contract search i dont think i've got my eight hours sleep any night

Legal Exec

I know a lot of solicitors who think it wasn't worth it but what the heck I say stay at it!!

sarahchristinem

Well, it had me sleepless for a while anyway, and it was in march-two weeks before i sat my last 2 exams! I thought I was being reasonable by willing to work for free...but it seems that isnt even good enough. The solicitor in question has been practising for over 18 years...so I wouldnt say its the first time they've been cheeky about money!

legal eagle 1

Was this your only experience as regards solicitors asking for a fee to take on a trainee?? Also sarah have you managed to secure a training contract since.................im just guessing here but i assume you turned down the 50k charge :rolleyes:

sarahchristinem

The general feedback I've got, from a few distant, non-related contacts is that you would have to be willing to work for free to even be considered...I havnt come across any other sols asking but I'm sure if you offered, it might sway them. I'm not really in a position to pay for PPC1 Fees or to work for free either, so I dot know how I'd manage!!

No, I dont have a traineeship.... yet! Still hopeful, but I wouldn't mind getting out of here and being able to secure one for next sept.

I actually didn't respond- I was so taken aback by it, that i couldn't decide whether to report it or to ask further questions, so I just left it. It wasnt the most motivating thing to be thinking about when your studying!

Legal Exec

If all is agreed up front without duress or unconscionability and tax compliant then there is nothing to report.

The tuition/educational aspect is the pole vault which gets both parties over the legal threshold.

Its out there as a fact of life and there are two choices.

Try infinitely hard to get a contract or cough up!

sarahchristinem

It wasnt about whether it is legal or illegal that I was considering reporting it, it was merely to make the Law Soc aware of what is happening.

It is clearly creating a hidden barrier to entry and the Law Soc are responsible for regulating entry to the profession, so it should be in their best interests to investigate any such agreements.

Also, it might not be necessary illegal because it was an unforeseen loophole, which is being used more regularly due to economic circumstances. It is only by reporting anything which seems suspicious and allowing the Law Soc to review it and deciding whether it is creating a significant barrier.

Legal Exec

If you have the money and the solicitor doesn't it creates an opening.

It's very widespread knowledge throughout the legal workforce.

You can't stop solicitors making money and people paying them for "education"- no solicitor owes a potential trainee a contract but people are free to complain if they wish...

sarahchristinem

Yes, if you have the money, its a win sin situation. Obviously, if you have secured a traineeship in such a way, your not going to complain. Its when you dont have the money that the barrier arises.

'Widespread knowledge' isn't sufficient to proceed with reviewing/investigating any such agreements. The complaint needs to be made officially and detailed for it to be worthwhile.

The combination of the current economic climate, nepotism and financial requirements (in excess of PPC1 fees) seem to be making it extremely difficult to secure a traineeship.

Legal Exec

Legal Exec wrote: »

people are free to complain if they wish...

Its up to you whoever wants to Sarah........

Dandelion6

This reminds me of arguments I've heard recently that employees should be allowed to work for less than the minimum wage, "if they want to".

Funnily enough those arguments are made primarily by the people who would be paying those employees less than the minimum wage.

It may sound superficially sensible but how do you differentiate between those people who actually "want" to and those who are so desperate they'll take any kind of abuse. And how do you prevent the inevitable race to the bottom that would result.

Legal Exec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn481KcjvMo

legal eagle 1

I still cant get my head round this whole thing...............like how widespread is this??

Legal Exec

legal eagle 1 wrote: »

I still cant get my head round this whole thing...............like how widespread is this??

Gotta win it to survive.