FE1 Exam Thread (Mod Warning: NO ADS)

drkpower

Legal Exec wrote: »

Privity re: the tuition for out of hours education- as in separate from the Indenture....

I'm sure you're a fabulous solicitor but I feel I'm repeating myself a bit unnecessarily.

But you are repeating points that are not fully fleshed out. You need to expalin how this contract is permissable given the legislative requirements that exist. You cannot simply state "privity of contract" and leave it at that. You really should know this from your work environment.

The privity of contract is merely a general concept. A contract cannot frustrate legislation. Entering into the contract you suggest (ie. a seperate C. between solr and trainee for the provision of additional out of hours education on the basis of the trainee remunerating the solr) is merely doing so to frustrate the minimum wage legislation. And this is particularly so when the solr is obliged to give all of the education necessary within the substantive solr-trainee contract.

Take a non-solictor/trainee example. If a junior plumber on the minimum wage enters into a contract with their employer for €8.50/hour (or whatever it is now) and at the same time enters into a seperate contract whereby the employer provides the junior plumber with tuition after work on how to do various plumbing tasks and the junior plumber pays €20K per year for this service. Do you think that contract would be enforceable given the provisions of the minimum wage act?

Legal Exec

drkpower wrote: »

But you are repeating points that are not fully fleshed out. You need to expalin how this contract is permissable given the legislative requirements that exist. You cannot simply state "privity of contract" and leave it at that. You really should know this from your work environment.

The privity of contract is merely a general concept. A contract cannot frustrate legislation. Entering into the contract you suggest (ie. a seperate C. between solr and trainee for the provision of additional out of hours education on the basis of the trainee remunerating the solr) is merely doing so to frustrate the minimum wage legislation. And this is particularly so when the solr is obliged to give all of the education necessary within the substantive solr-trainee contract.

Take a non-solictor/trainee example. If a junior plumber on the minimum wage enters into a contract with their employer for €8.50/hour (or whatever it is now) and at the same time enters into a seperate contract whereby the employer provides the junior plumber with tuition after work on how to do various plumbing tasks and the junior plumber pays €20K per year for this service. Do you think that contract would be enforceable given the provisions of the minimum wage act?

I said "Concept of Privity"

You seem unable to grasp the fact that there are two separate contracts in play here.

This is how Sarah C, I & others have come to hear how this allows the work for wages/contract for tuition concept to take place within solrs offices which could be a "Virtual work for tuition contract" whereby as I have re-stated additional tutiton than required is provided.

I'm afraid if you can't grasp the fact that there are two seperate legal contracts in play I cannot help you.

Furthermore as I am neither a whistleblower, exploiter, exploitee or availer of this scenario you have such difficulty with I am under no obligation to constantly explain the obvious situation of the two separate contracts...

drkpower

Legal Exec wrote: »

I said "Concept of Privity"

You seem unable to grasp the fact that there are two separate contracts in play here.

This is how Sarah C, I & others have come to hear how this allows the work for wages/contract for tuition concept to take place within solrs offices which could be a "Virtual work for tuition contract" whereby as I have re-stated additional tutiton than required is provided.

I'm afraid if you can't grasp the fact that there are two seperate legal contracts in play I cannot help you.

Furthermore as I am neither a whistleblower, exploiter, exploitee or availer of this scenario you have such difficulty with I am under no obligation to constantly explain the obvious situation of the two separate contracts...

All of my replies have clearly stated and factored in your assertion that there are two contracts; are you reading my replies?

And what, prey tell, is the concept of "privity" in this context if it is not the concept of "privity of contract"; stop trying to be smart.

You are under no obligation to say anything but you have asserted previously that these contarcts are entirley legal; I have explained cleary that they appear not to be so; yet you continue to support their legality - on no particular basis, mind you, you just keep stating 'they exist, 'there are 2 contracts' and 'privity'......!! There's a little bit more to it than that.....

Dont get into a discussion on the legal status of an arrangement if you cannot even make a simple argument to defend it. If you were my trainee, I'd go bloody mad (but at least I wouldnt charge you for it.....)

Legal Exec

drkpower wrote: »

All of my replies have clearly stated and factored in your assertion that there are two contracts; are you reading my replies?

And what, prey tell, is the concept of "privity" in this context if it is not the concept of "privity of contract"; stop trying to be smart.

You are under no obligation to say anything but you have asserted previously that these contarcts are entirley legal; I have explained cleary that they appear not to be so; yet you continue to support their legality - on no particular basis, mind you, you just keep stating 'they exist, 'there are 2 contracts' and 'privity'......!! There's a little bit more to it than that.....

Dont get into a discussion on the legal status of an arrangement if you cannot even make a simple argument to defend it. If you were my trainee, I'd go bloody mad (but at least I wouldnt charge you for it.....)

I refer to my last paragraph....

drkpower

Legal Exec wrote: »

I refer to my last paragraph....

A little tip; when you find yourself on the losing end of an argument, simply withdraw - you will seem a little more credible.

And, if you are trying to become a solicitor, quit with the latin phrases. Leave them to the judges and barristers; your job is to advise clients - legalese and silly latin phrases are not good!

Good luck with the career.
Save this thread; you'll laugh at yourself in a few years!!

Legal Exec

I hope you specialise in Contract

drkpower

Legal Exec wrote: »

I hope you specialise in Contract

Contract law is an academic subject, sweetie, practising solicitors dont really "specialise in contract".....! All law is contract law. This is basic stuff, Legal Exec, are you even training to be a solicitor?

Legal Exec

And I'm still sure you could still be one of the few experts in that field

shansey

not too sure if im in the right thread here..and hopefully someone wont go off on one if i'm not..just want to know if anyone is in the same position as myself..i've got my consent for indentures forms ready to go but i wont be paid during ppc one..i'm hoping to receive a maintenance grant from local authority but that wont nearly cover everything..does it just come down to taking out a hefty loan??

Legal Exec

Sorry but I can't get back until I have verified the position.

Please let me revert to you by PM- hopefully Mon/Tues.

catch88

Ive heard of trainees paying 20 k for their training contract so to speak.

Depressing.

Legal Exec

catch88 wrote: »

Ive heard of trainees paying 20 k for their training contract so to speak.

Depressing.

For PPC 1 & 2.

I trust they did not give another €20k to a solr :eek:

legal eagle 1

Depressing is right:(
So is it just me that was away with the fairies and not realising this was happening around me??!
Out of curiousity how many people here have considered it or are considering it as an option???

Legal Exec

We are all away with the fairies.

The feckin profession is collapsing around us and propped up with this type of poverty extending bullsh1t deal- I could write a book about all the stories of similar type work experience based nihilism.

I believe the Barristers are gettin messed around with Fees left right and centre as well, roll on 2010....

catch88

I have 20k saved for a house, il be damned if im handing any of it over to a solicitor.

I was thinking of approaching the internal solicitor that works for the department store that i do weekends at. I wonder if the Law society would consider that. There's zero probate though.

Legal Exec

If all else works out they can lend you out to another solicitor- and not even just that but it doesn't have to be in this jurisdiction.

The fact its outside a solicitors office is not problematic try asking the Young Solicitors Association for further info

Legal Exec

http://www.lawsociety.ie/displayCDAContent.aspx?groupID=149&headerID=14339&code=latest_news

Sorry to keep annoying everyone with my news of doom & gloom but its better to know your options.....

Dante09

Keep up FFS!

Legal Exec

and is so relevant to our current thread.

So if you seen the link first you should have got your finger out.

Jim Beem

Grim reading there :rolleyes: fair play for the notice Exec.

Dante09

.....Just not in this thread;)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055486081&page=3

Enry got his finger out before I.

Gotta be wide to the boards buz Exec.:D

Legal Exec

Gotta get wide to ALL those who need info.

You're a breath of fresh air D, but its good to be altruistic

Jim Beem

Legal Exec- You & Enry are right to bring this to people's knowledge & if others see this kind of info on other boards or places then they too should post it.

People are making huge decisions now that will effect the rest of their lives and the wrong choice or even the right one at the wrong time could prove very costly- I have never been on these other boards with other types of useful info like this and am sure others haven't either.

Dante- I think you should be more sporting- you may not like the message but stop shooting the messenger.

Dante09

Well, that would depend on ones definition of "needed info".

Check this out:
http://www.rollonfriday.com/ThisWeek/News/tabid/58/Id/181/fromTab/36/Default.aspx

Am i sharing the love now? Are ya satisfied with my selflessness?

sarahchristinem

See pg 77 of this thread; Mandz's post.........

Dante09

Jim Beem wrote: »

Legal Exec- You & Enry are right to bring this to people's knowledge & if others see this kind of info on other boards or places then they too should post it.

People are making huge decisions now that will effect the rest of their lives and the wrong choice or even the right one at the wrong time could prove very costly- I have never been on these other boards with other types of useful info like this and am sure others haven't either.

Dante- I think you should be more sporting- you may not like the message but stop shooting the messenger.

Catch up to the
D
N
I
W

Im always as sporting as can be:cool::D

Dante09

sarahchristinem wrote: »

See pg 77 of this thread; Mandz's post.........

Sarah-you're officially wide to the boards buz
Exec-you're bluffed:D

sarahchristinem

Not to cause any conflict , I just remembered I'd seen it here!

Dante09

No conflict Sarah, just having a much needed laugh. People on this thread need to chill just a wee bit!...way too much tension on here as of late!

Legal Exec

After 8 pages of posting it was fair to announce it to new readers....