Foreign drivers in Ireland

Quatre Mains

Sorry ambro25 I was writing that post before you posted that. As for the specifically western European comparsion, I cannot argue with you either. TBH, outside of Ireland I have only driven a car extensively (10k km+) in the UK and US as opposed to being a passenger, so am not in a position to pontificate. The only WE country I visited that the driving alarmed me at times was Italy -especially the roundabouts lol. Generally other WE countries have a far more visible police prescence than Ireland which is a massive help. I'm from Dublin originally but am a rare visitor there these days - I was up yesterday tho and definitely saw an improvement on that front. It will be a few years before the traffic core get their act together properly but at least things are moving along a bit. Hopefully the rest of the country will see those improvements soon.

Jumpy

ambro25 wrote:

'Course he does - read my 2nd post again

But I have a niggling feeling Jumpy is Irish and just out to take the p*ss (just as I am, tbh ).



[correction]Relative to the rest of 'Western' Europe[/correction]

How is that?

Nope, I am Australian.

ambro25

Ah well, this explains that then, Jumpy

No worries Johnnycabs
I'm not one lent to broad-brush (I mean, when debating seriously), and I'll not yet again post the whole list of where I've driven squillions of miles by now, as it's pointless - suffice to say, I have a fair few miles under the belt over the last 18 years or so on practically all continents, and would [IMHO] deem myself reasonably well travelled and experienced to make comparisons (up to a point of course).

As said (time & again when these threads pop up - as they regularly do ), generalising the behaviour of one, to all without discrimination, is immature and borderline xenophobic.

Many drivers of one particular country may compare poorly to many drivers of another particular country - and it will be down to so many known and unknown factors (e.g. whether there's any form of legal framework for owning and operating a vehicle in the country of origin or not, what the road network is like, how long the driver has been driving irrespective of the country of origin, etc.) - but at the end of day, there's good and bad everywhere. I see about as much good driving as bad driving in Ireland.

But since it's entirely perceptual, I likewise see about as much good driving as bad driving in France when I'm there - it's just that I don't necessarily equate 'good driving' in one country with 'good driving' in the other.

opeldave

MarkN wrote:

I will do my upmost to keep this post non racist as it is not what I am trying to achieve.

But can anyone tell me do Africans, Chinese, Polish nationals get any sort of training when they arrive here or do they just buy a car and hit the road?

I am just gobsmacked at the disgraceful display of what some of these people dare call 'driving'!?

Some are worse than others, same as Irish people but one of the groups above (you decide!) just seem to be so wreckless and have no problem with endangering life with the method they control a car on the road.

Someone very close to me was almost seriously injured or killed by one of these idiots this evening and I'd just love to know does our government do anything to screen these people before handing them a licence/allowing them to drive using their own licence which may not be worth the paper it is written on.

:mad:

Go On ya big racist ted-is it cos im black????????????

mc_makon

MarkN

can u tell me please something more about that training u are writing about ?

how do u think it should look like ? as far as I know it makes no difference for u on which side of road u are driving as long as u are responsible, take care about yourself and other drivers and don't believe other users of roads.

have u ever been driving in any of lhd countries?


lads u wrote many words about drivers, competency etc.
Just to let u know that in Poland for example u can't get provinsional DL
u can get only full DL. but to get it and to be able to drive u must have 30 hours driving lessons, then 20 hours of theory lessons. Theory contains everything from junctions to info how the engine is built. After that u pass theory and practice exam. Usually about 40% of new drivers fail their first exam

I won't ask question what u need to know about car to drive here....

Tea drinker

Swopping sides of a car (LHD for RHD) is difficult at the start, at least for me. I don't have as much concentration for other things as if I was in my normal seat. Couple that with being in a foreign country where "stuff" is different, language, signs, driving culture, I wouldn't be as good as the native drivers. So yeah I agree that the foreign drivers here are worse (all else being equal) than Irish. At least when they come here first.

Should they have a course if they intend to stay here. Yes, what harm?
We all should have a road safety course every couple of years.
All road users. Cyclists , bikers, truckers car drivers etc. Maybe even pedestrians, as they often perform suicidal manoevers.

Terrontress

I think part of the problem is a mixture of the two issues here.

I have seen a neighbour from overseas teach herself to drive. With no instruction whatsoever!

She used to go out, up and down the road a few times. Could hardly make the car move. But she had her L plate up so we must presume she is legal to do so under the Irish system!

She is driving in an unfamiliar environment with only a provisional in a system which allows her to do so.

2 years later, she still has her L plate and her driving confidence seems to have come on leaps and bounds.

Esel

MarkN wrote:

I will do my upmost to keep this post non racist as it is not what I am trying to achieve.

But can anyone tell me do Africans, Chinese, Polish nationals ...

I am just gobsmacked at the disgraceful display of what some of these people dare call 'driving'!?

... one of the groups above (you decide!) ....

... one of these idiots......

Your upmost (sic) is not good enough, brother. Why did you single out the three 'nationalities' above? Then call them idiots... Sounds (a teeny bit racist) to me.

I might agree if you had questioned the ability/behaviour of foreign drivers (or more correctly, people you assume are foreign). I also understand you posted while angry. But would you have posted about the incident/issue here if the bad driver in question gave no appearance of being 'foreign'?

MarkN

esel wrote:

But would you have posted about the incident/issue here if the bad driver in question gave no appearance of being 'foreign'?

This is a REALLY old thread but no I probably wouldn't as I'm not in the habit of coming on moaning everytime someone cuts me up in traffic.

The topic of the thread was foreign drivers so why wouldn't it be about them?

Fact is, there's a lot of crap Irish drivers out there, there's a lot of immigrants in this country who are crap drivers - I witness both cases making silly mistakes on the roads day in day out. If you want to believe that every car packed full of Africans for example are all living here 20 years and are called Paddy then that's your own business. I'm not that naive.

I think it's stupid that an Irish person can pay for a green licence and drive without anyone (law isn't enforced) and I think it's silly that someone who might never have driven in a modern Western European can just hit the road in the same way.

joseph101

Irish, foreigner are the same when it comes to driving. both makes mistakes, both need to have a license of some sort. the problem is the system.

take my Indian friend for example.. driving also at the left side of the road in their country for 15 years then gain international license from Dubai for 8years, but, will then take the exam for Irish PROBATIONAL license while the EU nationals who just bought their license from their country of origin can drive here with just an exchange for full clean driving license and not even read or study the rules of the road.

another thing is getting the full license.. it's like a good business, why? once you take the driving course the tester will fail you for some reason.. after you made the adjustment and book again different tester will fail you for other reason, again and again.. good business..

why don't they just implement one type of system wherein every body will go through the theory test then everyone will take driving course then after completing the course and prove themselves to the instructor they will have their certificate of competency..

the problem with practical exam is tht you need to satisfy the tester and if he is a racist and you're from other country automatically you need to book again for the test..

just my observation cause my indian friend who have international license took him 4takes to pass.. another friend from africa took him 3takes.. and another filipino 4takes even they have international license already. and btw, 1 of my irish friend also 3rd taker.

Marcus.Aurelius

Until we sort out our driving system here, which teaches cowardice and bad driving, we have no right to question these incoming illegal immigrants, no matter how crap their driving is. (And yes, I've seen them, they make me cringe!!)

ambro25

+1

MarkN wrote:

I think it's stupid that an Irish person can pay for a green licence and drive without anyone (law isn't enforced) and I think it's silly that someone who might never have driven in a modern Western European can just hit the road in the same way.

Note that the problem is the same in both instances, whereby fix the system itself = problem solved at source.

After all, the system is non-discriminatory and therefore being abused by both nationals and immigrants in equal measure, so why complain about some abusers and not the others (in your OP)?

At Joseph101, I'd be interested to learn in which EU countries of origin can nationals "just buy their license" (moreover, note that EU driving licensees do not have to exchange their license at all!)

wil

joseph101, while I agree with you that the system is at fault, most if not all EU countries have a more strict driver training and testing regime than Ireland so exchanging their licence for an Irish one is in fact trading down. I have no intention of exchanging my UK licence because the Irish one has lower merit. While I am not not familiar with Indias driving requirements and test other than heresay and anecdotally, I know a little about some other Asian countries (from family members) and not all have as rigorous testing as most EU countries.
I agree the Irish system is sorely lacking, but it is not only foreign learners that have to retake tests several times. The biggest problem here is poor preparation with lots of poor practice. Driving around forever on a provisional only compounds your bad driving habits.

So far nobody seems to have posted the facts about foreigners eligibilty to drive here, so I'll post them as they are to the best of my knowledge.
1 - Drivers from EU/EEA countries + 8 other countries may exchange their full licence for an Irish one. I dont think they are obliged to change their licence. UK licence holders certainly are under no obligation to exchange their licence.
2 - Drivers from other countries not in that list may drive on their own full licence for a period of one year from entry into Ireland, effectively immune to penalty points, but not fines.
After 1 year they then have to apply for an Irish licence same as any other Irish person, do test etc. AFAIK any points accrued then go on to that licence. So they can drive without question for a year then after a years driving go back to being a learner. Thats the bizarre part, but no less bizarre than Irish drivers driving on provisionals without supervision or mandatory training. In fact having already passed a test in their own country most are probably more eligible to be on the road than their Irish counterparts. There are some countries whose driving requirements and statistics make Irelands look positively glowing. These are in the minority. Their driving tests may be minimal. However even this is more than was required by the thousands of Irish who got lucky bag licences in the great amnesty licence fiasco.

There is also something of a scam among some foreign licence holders. It involves a so-called international driving licence/permit. If you have ever driven abroad on your licence, you will know this is basically just a paper translation of your own licence relevent for the countries you are visiting. It means nothing if your licence is not valid for driving in that country.
However some foreign licence holders are paying 80 to 200 to conmen for a plastic ID version of this here under the impression it makes them legal to drive here for years. A genuine one is only available in your own country (the Irish one costs about €7) and lasts for a year. Most gardai probably wouldnt know the difference. They look pretty genuine.
In some countries, insurance is an option, not a requirement, so when coming here, they may think this is the case here too, especially with the cost involved.
At the end of the day, our own driving safety and regulation leave a lot to be desired, it is a stretch to expect anyone coming here to act any better than they see around them. On the other hand some find our driving behaviour appalling to them.

warthog_76

bottom line for me is that NO ONE should be able to just sit into a car and drive it off without first passing their driving test