Prime Time cannabis discussion

Timans

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well, misinformation about cannabis comes from both sides. Believing what one side says unquestionably is stupid.

Legalise it, inform people of the risks and precautions to take for decreased risk and keep it away from minors.


It's not disputed that it's a risk.

But it'd be much less of a risk if the government provided factual information on its use and regulated it.

Yeah, because regulated it will take away the dangers...

:rolleyes:

JC 2K3

I mentioned "decreased risk" and "less risk" in my post, not "no risk".

In any case, what are these terrible dangers? Explain to me why a massive increase in cannabis consumption has not led to an epidemic of mental illness in this and other countries?

bubonicus

Timans wrote:

Yeah, because regulated it will take away the dangers...

:rolleyes:

well it worked on our roads, how many people died this year, no wait...


sorry what's your point again?

Mr. CooL ICE

One side of my family has a history of epilepsy, and the only person in my generation is my sister. And she didn't know about it until she randomly had a seizure when she was 19. It affected her life for a few years because she wasn't allowed to perform certain tasks that would make her a liability, e.g. driving a car, until the proper dose of the appropriate medication was finalised, and she finally got the go-ahead to drive a car when she turned 25.

Therefore, going by the logic of some of the anti-cannabis posters here, I should have numerous costly neurological scans (or whatever) before I could ever use drive a car, go to a cinema, enter a nightclub, operate heavy machinery, etc, let alone smoke a joint. Thats just utter bollox.

If people want to bury their heads in the sand when presented with scientific proof that cannabis does not affect long-term memory, please, just don't embarass yourselves any more. Just chill the fcuk out and pass to the left :P

Remember, theres a difference between having a joint or two a day and taking 10 bongs a day. One is casual smoking, the other is heavy smoking. Compare it to drinking - if someone likes to come home from work and have a beer, thats fine. But having 2 or 3 at lunchtime and them maybe 10 in the evening every evening is alcohol abuse IMO, and will eventually affect your health, be it mental or physical. Same might go for smokers of cannabis.

faceman

bubonicus wrote:

Well you asked and then you tell me I'm not qualified to know what I'm reading and then tell me most if not all studies and research is biased to who funded it.

You are right of course , but I gave you a qualified study. You came back with you can't be arsed.

Now tell me who is stoned

ok you got me, i had originally posted thinkin i would go down the road of this topic of debate but then i decided fuck it, couldnt be arsed, it always goes to pot anyway!

bubonicus

faceman wrote:

ok you got me, i had originally posted thinkin i would go down the road of this topic of debate but then i decided fuck it, couldnt be arsed, it always goes to pot anyway!

true. I'm in work and have all the time in the world on my hands. I was hoping you would fold, I hate those long winded posts going back and forth, people disecting every line we write.


100 euros to the first person who can tell me WHY cannabis is illegal?*





*i won't be giving you 100 euro if you get it right.

faceman

bubonicus wrote:

100 euros to the first person who can tell me WHY cannabis is illegal?*

Cos its the law!

wrote:

*i won't be giving you 100 euro if you get it right.

stone him!!!

Tha Gopher

bubonicus wrote:

true. I'm in work and have all the time in the world on my hands. I was hoping you would fold, I hate those long winded posts going back and forth, people disecting every line we write.


100 euros to the first person who can tell me WHY cannabis is illegal?*





*i won't be giving you 100 euro if you get it right.

I dont know, however its the belief of the millitant stoners that it was because the US government became concerned about madoutofitstoned Mexicans raping donkeys or somesuch.

boards.ie drug threads should be shown in schools to prove that not all drug users are mad cool and laid back

cooperguy

Terry wrote:

What does that tell you?

Are you kidding me! It means she panics when she realizes that when her symptoms get bad she will have nothing to take to relieve them and she will be in large amounts of pain.

JC 2K3

It was a mixture of reasons, none of which were that it was bad for your health.

cocoa

Tha Gopher wrote:

I dont know, however its the belief of the millitant stoners that it was because the US government became concerned about madoutofitstoned Mexicans raping donkeys or somesuch.

oxymoron much?

Tha Gopher

People who insist on wrecking everyones head with half truths about smoke shouldnt be allowed to have the stuff. Id hedge a bet most of them are addicts in denial (I myself am a former addict who can now call himself a moderate user). It got to the point where i was like Towelie from South Park, couldnt leave the gaff without a spliff and would smoke another on my way to wherever i was going.

HammerHeadGym

DarkJager wrote:

...they can't come up with a better argument than "its a gateway drug"...

It's called a gateway drug because a large percentage of people who take class A drugs, take or used to take cannabis too. However, a far higher proportion of those who take class A drugs take or used to take the far more addictive drugs, caffiene and alcohol. Still those are easier to tax. :mad:

Tha Gopher

bubonicus wrote:

a - false, i did class A's before i did cannabis.

b - what where we, huh...

c - false, it's habit forming like coffee, but the addictiviness comes from mixing with tobacco.

a- Good for you. However you do realise you are in a pretty slim minority dont you? Out of curiousity what class A did you try before smoke and what age were you?

b- eh?

c- False again. I have absoloutely no desire to smoke tobacco. In times of a drought smoking a fag doesnt take away the craving. I hate fags.

the_syco

ntlbell wrote:

EH?

That's like saying only if smoked with heroin.

You're getting addicted to the nicotine in the tobacco it doesn't make cannabis addictive.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm saying that smoking cannabis alone is not addictive. It's when you smoke cannabis with tabacco that you get addicted to the tabacco.

As for heroin, after the first few hits, you need more to feel "normal".

faceman wrote:

You also need to know who sponsored the research etc too.

Agreed. Most of the studies are sponsored by one side or the other. I've yet to come across a study by someone without an agenda. Sadly, if one without an agenda does come out, a quick check by someone with an agenda, will produce an agenda.

=-=

One reason it won't become legal, is that not all people are affected the same way. Some get chilled, some gets paranoid, and some go completely nuts.

=-=

Check out http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/hottopics/cannabis/ for info.

Mr. CooL ICE

the_syco wrote:

One reason it won't become legal, is that not all people are affected the same way. Some get chilled, some gets paranoid, and some go completely nuts.

But after alcohol, some people can get sad, others get angry, or, violent, depressed, sleepy, quiet, loud, emotional... the list goes on.

I for one, have never experienced or heard of a stoned person become in any way violent or angry

eoin5

LordChessington wrote:

But after alcohol, some people can get sad, others get angry, or, violent, depressed, sleepy, quiet, loud, emotional... the list goes on.

I for one, have never experienced or heard of a stoned person become in any way violent or angry

Surely you havent seen Reefer Madness and seen the evil it spreads!

bubonicus

Tha Gopher wrote:

a- Good for you. However you do realise you are in a pretty slim minority dont you? Out of curiousity what class A did you try before smoke and what age were you?

b- eh?

c- False again. I have absoloutely no desire to smoke tobacco. In times of a drought smoking a fag doesnt take away the craving. I hate fags.

a. good for me so, because my experience is different than yours, everybody else is wrong, I like your logic. But that still makes your original statement false, because it's not the same for everybody. therefore it's not true. So don't be confusing the kiddies.

b. I should have put a after to show i was messing about not remembering what i was talking about, which you obviously forgot:p . But I do agree with this one.

c. Smoking a cig does do it for me, but again, because my experience is different than yours, everybody else is wrong, I like your logic. But that still makes your original statement false, because it's not the same for everybody. therefore it's not true. So don't be confusing the kiddies


i'm not going to give you a run down of my previous drug endeavors, but have you ever seen Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.:p

Terry

bubonicus wrote:

a. good for me so, because my experience is different than yours, everybody else is wrong, I like your logic. But that still makes your original statement false, because it's not the same for everybody. therefore it's not true. So don't be confusing the kiddies.

b. I should have put a after to show i was messing about not remembering what i was talking about, which you obviously forgot:p . But I do agree with this one.

c. Smoking a cig does do it for me, but again, because my experience is different than yours, everybody else is wrong, I like your logic. But that still makes your original statement false, because it's not the same for everybody. therefore it's not true. So don't be confusing the kiddies


i'm not going to give you a run down of my previous drug endeavors, but have you ever seen Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.:p

Wow!
You're mad you are.

Dave!

Terry wrote:

Wow!
You're mad you are.

No, you're mad, Terry. A great lad. So much more mature than us.

Terry

Indeed.

patzer117

ok, how about the idea taking cannabis makes you become a worse person.

You lose all of the traits we admire in people when you smoke it - Honesty, humility, composure, self restraint, charity, basically lots of virtues.

And then you gain traits we don't admire in people - sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, basically lots of vices.


If someone can come on here and say they become a more honest, sincere, helpful and caring person when they smoke cannabis, well then I'll show you someone I think is lying.

Next, look at the problems of alcohol in our society, especially with regards to young males. Drink Driving, Suicide, Anti-Social behaviour. Cannabis produces the same effects, it impairs your judgement. People (Friday's Irish Times) want to raise the legal age of alcohol consumption. Legalizing cannabis goes very much against the trend of trying to curb bad behaviour by young people in today's society.

Lastly, mixing drinks messes you up pretty badly. Mixing drugs is much much worse. Legalizing cannabis and having people take it with other drugs like alcohol, or as people mentioned, tobacco, doesn't help the situation, it exacerbates the symptoms. And in reality people will do both. I don't need to spell out the consequences


So without mentioning the "Gateway" argument, or the "schizo" argument, or even general health, cannabis harms the individual and harms society.

bubonicus

patzer117 wrote:

ok, how about the idea taking cannabis makes you become a worse person.

You lose all of the traits we admire in people when you smoke it - Honesty, humility, composure, self restraint, charity, basically lots of virtues.

And then you gain traits we don't admire in people - sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, basically lots of vices.


If someone can come on here and say they become a more honest, sincere, helpful and caring person when they smoke cannabis, well then I'll show you someone I think is lying.

Next, look at the problems of alcohol in our society, especially with regards to young males. Drink Driving, Suicide, Anti-Social behaviour. Cannabis produces the same effects, it impairs your judgement. People (Friday's Irish Times) want to raise the legal age of alcohol consumption. Legalising cannabis goes very much against the trend of trying to curb bad behaviour by young people in today's society.

Lastly, mixing drinks messes you up pretty badly. Mixing drugs is much much worse. Legalising cannabis and having people take it with other drugs like alcohol, or as people mentioned, tobacco, doesn't help the situation, it exacerbates the symptoms. And in reality people will do both. I don't need to spell out the consequences


So without mentioning the "Gateway" arguement, or the "schizo" arguement, or even general health, cannabis harms the individual and harms society.

You calling me a liar?

and Terry, you are madder than me. Don't worry I will vanish into the abyss from where I came.

JC 2K3

patzer117 wrote:

ok, how about the idea taking cannabis makes you become a worse person.

You lose all of the traits we admire in people when you smoke it - Honesty, humility, composure, self restraint, charity, basically lots of virtues.

And then you gain traits we don't admire in people - sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, basically lots of vices.

Are you talking about long term effects or effects while on cannabis?

If this happens to someone while they're on cannabis, it's no big deal. It's a high, it wears off. If you're talking long term effects, I'd like to see some evidence.

patzer117 wrote:

If someone can come on here and say they become a more honest, sincere, helpful and caring person when they smoke cannabis, well then I'll show you someone I think is lying.

Why does it matter? It's not like they're going to stay that way permanently.

patzer117 wrote:

Next, look at the problems of alcohol in our society, especially with regards to young males. Drink Driving, Suicide, Anti-Social behaviour. Cannabis produces the same effects, it impairs your judgement. People (Friday's Irish Times) want to raise the legal age of alcohol consumption. Legalizing cannabis goes very much against the trend of trying to curb bad behaviour by young people in today's society.

Trying to curb bad behavior hasn't worked. A different approach is needed. Half decent advice on alcohol consumption that doesn't just condemn getting drunk from the government would be nice, as well as legalising cannabis, regulating it and educating people on its use.

Education, not prohibition and zero tolerance, is the way forward.

patzer117 wrote:

Lastly, mixing drinks messes you up pretty badly. Mixing drugs is much much worse. Legalizing cannabis and having people take it with other drugs like alcohol, or as people mentioned, tobacco, doesn't help the situation, it exacerbates the symptoms. And in reality people will do both. I don't need to spell out the consequences

In fairness, mixing drinks just makes you sick, not messed up pretty badly.

And you seem to assume that there'd be a big increase in the amount of cannabis smokers if it was legalised. There's no evidence to suggest this.

patzer117

JC 2K3 wrote:

Are you talking about long term effects or effects while on cannabis?

If this happens to someone while they're on cannabis, it's no big deal. It's a high, it wears off. If you're talking long term effects, I'd like to see some evidence.

Why does it matter? It's not like they're going to stay that way permanently.

Honestly, just while you're on cannabis. You think it's no big deal? I say having thousands of people accross the country become pains in the ass every day/weekend, annoying me, and lots of other responsible people in society, with no benefit for anyone except the smokers, is a big deal.

Trying to curb bad behavior hasn't worked. A different approach is needed.

"Regulation". "Education is the way forward". "Other Words". Well that approached hasn't worked with alcohol, as you just said. Legalizing cannabis obviously won't help with anti-social behaviour. Nice catchphrase though.

In fairness, mixing drinks just makes you sick, not messed up pretty badly.

You say potato, I say, well this doesn't work so well on the internet, but mixing drinks makes you sick and sometimes makes you have to go the A+E etc. Mixing drugs, makes you worse.

And you seem to assume that there'd be a big increase in the amount of cannabis smokers if it was legalised. There's no evidence to suggest this.

That's a straw man. Stick to my post. I have neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

JC 2K3

patzer117 wrote:

Honestly, just while you're on cannabis. You think it's no big deal? I say having thousands of people accross the country become pains in the ass every day/weekend, annoying me, and lots of other responsible people in society, with no benefit for anyone except the smokers, is a big deal.

Don't associate with them if they annoy you.....

patzer117 wrote:

"Regulation". "Education is the way forward". "Other Words". Well that approached hasn't worked with alcohol, as you just said. Legalizing cannabis obviously won't help with anti-social behaviour. Nice catchphrase though.

Alcohol isn't regulated well enough, or in fact logically at all. All the government does is increase the price to combat the problems it causes rather than looking at the situation critically.

And throughout my whole life I've never had any constructive education in relation to alcohol consumption.....

patzer117 wrote:

That's a straw man. Stick to my post. I have neither said nor implied anything of the sort.

When you said that people would mix it with alcohol if it were legalised, you implied this.

the_syco

patzer117 wrote:

ok, how about the idea taking cannabis makes you become a worse person.

You lose all of the traits we admire in people when you smoke it - Honesty, humility, composure, self restraint, charity, basically lots of virtues.

LOL. You loose them when you drink. I have yet to see anyone smoking a joint loose any of them. That is, unless you a f**king ar$ehole in the 1st place. Then you've lost all the above a long time ago.

patzer117 wrote:

People (Friday's Irish Times) want to raise the legal age of alcohol consumption.

I LOL whenever I read this. Esp as teenagers start drinking at 16 or so. But I can't see it happening, as the politicans will loose any form of "youth" vote if they do.

=-=

Light use can effect your short term user. Long term use, though, will effect your memory more so.

patzer117

JC 2K3 I don't associate with these people, but that doesn't change any of my points, and doesn't even enter the equation of my main point - that smoking cannabis makes you become a less nice human being, which is bad for the person, the people around them, and society in general

JC 2K3

That's unfounded and untrue.

People wouldn't smoke it if this were the case.

Dave!

patzer117 wrote:

JC 2K3 I don't associate with these people, but that doesn't change any of my points, and doesn't even enter the equation of my main point - that smoking cannabis makes you become a less nice human being, which is bad for the person, the people around them, and society in general

Where are you getting this from? Cos anybody I've ever encountered on cannabis is more laid back, a better laugh, and generally harmless, than the sober joes who walk around judging people. Honestly you must consort with some assh*le stoners -- might I suggest some new friends.

CiaranC

patzer117 wrote:

ok, how about the idea taking cannabis makes you become a worse person.

You lose all of the traits we admire in people when you smoke it - Honesty, humility, composure, self restraint, charity, basically lots of virtues.

And then you gain traits we don't admire in people - sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, basically lots of vices.

That made me laugh out loud. Cannabis makes you angry and prideful, eh?

I love when people who have no idea at all about cannabis decide to give us the lowdown.

the_syco

patzer117 wrote:

that smoking cannabis makes you become a less nice human being, which is bad for the person, the people around them, and society in general

Man, you started off badly, but now you're just talking through your arse.

Snake Plisken

I think Patzer might be Grainne Kenny in disguise

Snake

eoin5

parzer 117 says marajuana induces anger. proof? Dont say Reefer Madness btw!

Oh yea I'd better mention my view is dont knock it till youve tried it and dont try it till youve researched it thoroughly.

cooperguy

patzer117 wrote:

And then you gain traits we don't admire in people - sloth, greed, jealousy, pride, anger, basically lots of vices.

I have never in my life met a more angry stoned person in fact I would say it does the opposite. In fact I dont think Iv met somebody who has become more of any of the things you have listed while using cannabis.

Dave!

It should probably be pointed out that patzer117 was stoned off his tits when he made that post.........

Mr. CooL ICE

patzer117 wrote:

Lastly, mixing drinks messes you up pretty badly. Mixing drugs is much much worse. Legalizing cannabis and having people take it with other drugs like alcohol, or as people mentioned, tobacco, doesn't help the situation, it exacerbates the symptoms. And in reality people will do both. I don't need to spell out the consequences

You can't possibly make this comparison work. Mixing drinks is mixing alcoholic drinks in one sitting, e.g. beer, vodka, whiskey, etc on a night out. Comparing that to 'mixing drugs' is impossible, since alcohol IS a drug, as is cannabis. So, the only possible way of comparing these is talking about mixing hash with weed, or maybe smoking bongs aswell as smoking joints. Cocaine, ecstasy, heroine, etc are NOT cannabis.

Part of these countless anti/pro-cannabis arguments is why cannabis is illegal and alcohol isn't. Don't forget this. Don't try to generalise drugs by throwing cannabis into the same league as heroine, cocaine, ecstasy, etc. To quote Bill Hicks; Not all drugs are good. Some drugs are great!

And please respond soon. I need a laugh

nobodythere

patzer117 wrote:

...
<garbage>

So without mentioning the "Gateway" argument, or the "schizo" argument, or even general health, cannabis harms the individual and harms society.

That whole post was a crock of crap.

I'm a better individual due to weed (and mushrooms on a side note).

Still, it does have negative effects on people, everything in moderation, just like drinking, but if we're going to compare the two i'd take everyone stoned over everyone pissed any day. At least when you smoke weed the only person you can really affect is yourself.

Do you drink? Do you not see the AWFUL damage it has done to society, homelessness, broken families, murder, suicide... especially our society, it has completely retarded our development as people. We can't get our **** together half enough to do something worthwhile and beside other countries we're a joke.

Do you not see that people should be given a choice about how they want to get fcked off their heads (no matter what you do those people will always exist) or do you just force on them one of the most damaging drugs known to man.

lukovic

He was at a debate in UCD about drugs and started insulting 2 of the speakers about their weight. Completely unprovoked! Ended up getting booed and then started moaning for not getting longer to speak than the others.

Seemed like a bit of a c*nt to me, even if he did make some good points.

I was at that debate in UCD and do not believe Ming was wrong in what he said to those two women. They were telling him how Cannabis use was costing our health service a fortune. The women in question were not just obese but grossly obese. May not be very nice but that is a fact. They were at least 18 stone in weight. In fact they found it difficult even to walk they were so obese

It was highly hypocritical of them to preach when in fact it is the 'problem' that they have which is costing our health service a fortune. As the saying goes 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

Tha Gopher

LordChessington wrote:

Don't try to generalise drugs by throwing cannabis into the same league as heroine, cocaine, ecstasy, etc. To quote Bill Hicks; Not all drugs are good. Some drugs are great!

And please respond soon. I need a laugh

Bill Hicks was a recovering alcoholic drug addict who didnt know better.

Funny guy mind, but the oul drugs troubled him.

Dave!

lukovic wrote:

He was at a debate in UCD about drugs and started insulting 2 of the speakers about their weight. Completely unprovoked! Ended up getting booed and then started moaning for not getting longer to speak than the others.

Seemed like a bit of a c*nt to me, even if he did make some good points.

I was at that debate in UCD and do not believe Ming was wrong in what he said to those two women. They were telling him how Cannabis use was costing our health service a fortune. The women in question were not just obese but grossly obese. May not be very nice but that is a fact. They were at least 18 stone in weight. In fact they found it difficult even to walk they were so obese

It was highly hypocritical of them to preach when in fact it is the 'problem' that they have which is costing our health service a fortune. As the saying goes 'people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'.

It was completely unnecessary to single the women out. If he wanted to make the point about us doing all sorts of dangerous things (eating bad food, drinking alcohol, smoking, etc) then he could have done so without even mentioning the women. But he wanted to bully them and make a show of them, and generally be a c*nt.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

they deserved to be made a show of . if they were that fat and preaching to other people about health, that is just a license for a personal attack.

**** them, and the skinny husband they rolled in on.

Tha Gopher

DaveMcG wrote:

Where are you getting this from? Cos anybody I've ever encountered on cannabis is more laid back, a better laugh, and generally harmless, than the sober joes who walk around judging people. Honestly you must consort with some assh*le stoners -- might I suggest some new friends.

Does that include the skangers down the back of the bus rolling?

All this "Ive never seen a stoned person fight". wtf. Next time your on the bus demand the skangers down the back desist from smoking. They are probably stoned, they probably smoked a few in the house before hopping on the bus and rolling another, but hey, if they are stoned they int gonna fight are they.

Compare that to asking your average pisshead to, i dunno, leave a chipper at closing time. Yil get the odd arsehole but most will be grand.

nobodythere

Tha Gopher wrote:

Does that include the skangers down the back of the bus rolling?

All this "Ive never seen a stoned person fight". wtf. Next time your on the bus demand the skangers down the back desist from smoking. They are probably stoned, they probably smoked a few in the house before hopping on the bus and rolling another, but hey, if they are stoned they int gonna fight are they.

Compare that to asking your average pisshead to, i dunno, leave a chipper at closing time. Yil get the odd arsehole but most will be grand.

Funny that the wiggle word 'probably' came in where it did. Those people are violent by nature. If they were drunk instead of stoned they'd do the same, maybe worse. If they weren't on anything, they'd probably fckin do it too!

Tha Gopher

The point is that people repeatedtly claim to have never seen anyone under the influence of hash in a fight. As if its some type of miracle sedative.

Not all stoners are skangers, but all skangers are stoners.

Terry

grasshopa wrote:

Funny that the wiggle word 'probably' came in where it did. Those people are violent by nature. If they were drunk instead of stoned they'd do the same, maybe worse. If they weren't on anything, they'd probably fckin do it too!

Who are violent by nature?

DeVore

Pick up the yellow pages. Pick a doctor at random. Tell them this:

I'm going to abuse one of these substances to excess:

1. Alcohol
2. Nicotine
3. Marajuana

Ask him or her, from a purely professional health-care workers point of view, which he would choose if he had to.

Joints are not harmless fun but the whiff of hypocrisy is astounding here.
I was addicted to Marajuana for 15 years and recently stopped (ok slowed down by a factor of 30:1). Simple as. But my God, kicking the nicotine addiction is almost impossible in comparison.

I would NOT recommend abusing any of the substances above, particularly if you are less then 20. Usage is to be avoided but if you must, do so in small amounts.

DeV.

Dave!

Tha Gopher wrote:

Does that include the skangers down the back of the bus rolling?

All this "Ive never seen a stoned person fight". wtf. Next time your on the bus demand the skangers down the back desist from smoking. They are probably stoned, they probably smoked a few in the house before hopping on the bus and rolling another, but hey, if they are stoned they int gonna fight are they.

Compare that to asking your average pisshead to, i dunno, leave a chipper at closing time. Yil get the odd arsehole but most will be grand.

Let me put it another way... My friends are all nice people. They don't start fights for no reason when they're sober. There have been times when they have been drunk that they have become belligerent. There have been no times when they have been stoned that they have become belligerent.

That's not to say that no fights occur between stoners, but it's not a common effect of too much cannabis, whereas it is often an effect of too much alcohol.

BTW, thought people might be interested in this site I just came across.....
http://www.ukcia.org/research/DutchPolicyAndCrimeStatistics.html

Last month use of cannabis (marijuana) by high school seniors:
18.1% in the Netherlands (1996);
23.7% in the U.S. (1997).
(Sources: The Trimbos Institute, Amsterdam, the Netherlands; Monitoring the Future Survey, University of Michigan and White House Office of National Drug Control Policy)

Any lifetime use (prevalence) of cannabis by older teens (1994):
30% in the Netherlands;
38% in the U.S.
(Sources: Center for Drug Research, University of Amsterdam; Monitoring the Future Survey, University of Michigan and White House Office of National Drug Control Policy)

Recent (last month) use of cannabis by 15 year olds (in 1995):
15% in the Netherlands;
16% in the U.S.;
24% in the U.K.
(Sources: Trimbos Institute, Amsterdam, the Netherlands; Monitoring the Future Survey, University of Michigan and White House Office of National Drug Control Policy; Council of Europe, ESPAD Report)

Any lifetime use of cannabis by 15 year olds (in 1995):
29% in the Netherlands;
34% in the U.S.;
41% in the U.K.
(Sources: Netherlands Institute of Health and Addiction, U.S. National Institute for Drug Abuse; Council of Europe, ESPAD Report)

Heroine addicts as a percentage of population (in 1995):
160 per 100,000 in the Netherlands;
430 per 100,000 in the U.S.
(Sources: Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport;
White House Office of National Drug Control Policy)

Murder rate as a percentage of population (in 1996):
1.8 per 100,000 in the Netherlands;
8.22 in the U.S.
(Sources: Netherlands Bureau of Statistics; White House Office of National Drug Control Policy)

Incarceration rate as a percentage of population (1997):
73 per 100,000 in the Netherlands;
645 per 100,000 in the U.S.
(Sources: Netherlands Ministry of Justice; White House Office of National Drug Control Strategy)

Crime-related deaths as a percentage of population:
1.2 per 100,000 in the Netherlands (1994);
8.2 per 100,000 in the U.S. (1995).
(Sources: World Health Organization; Uniform Crime Reports, U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation)

Per capita spending on drug-related law enforcement:
$27 per capita in the Netherlands;
$81 per capita in the U.S.
(Sources: Netherlands Ministry of Justice; White House Office of National Drug Control Strategy)

Food for thought!

nobodythere

Terry wrote:

Who are violent by nature?

skangers/scum

DeVore

Believe me, if you are stoned, the VERY LAST thing you want to do is start a fight with someone. Honestly, most people just sit there with a vacuous smile on their face, eating jellies and working out how they can reconstruct various items within easy reach as makeshift bongs.

DeV.