Cyclist question

Arathorn

Just a quick query, when there is two lanes and the left lane is for turning left and the cyclist want to go straight on, where shoud the cyclist be positioned? I would have assumed he should move into the lane going straight on but maybe not because it might be dangerous for him if he is in between cars ?

Anan1

I would have said the left side of the straight ahead lane too. That said, one should always yield to cyclists, no matter what they do.

Arathorn

Ya the reason I ask is because I caused a cyclist to fall off his bike expected him to turn left. Whatever the answer is I know I have no excuse I should have been way more careful, accepted full responsibility. The guy was fine and no damage to his bike, there was a garda there gave me a fine and 2 points, could have been a lot worse. Pride myself on being a careful driver, was just a moment of stupidity. Still feel awful about it

the_syco

If he was in the left of the left lane, and went straight on, he was in the wrong, provided that the lanes were marked, I think.

bazz26

Yep, according to the ROTR motorists are obliged to yield to cyclists and pedestrians no matter how wrong they may appear to be.

Arathorn

Well the lanes are marked but not that wide, either way I got too close to him, the gaurd said I was in the wrong so i'll take him on his word and put it down to experience and be more careful in future

MarkN

Don't be too hard on yourself over it. I cycle to work everyday and in your situation if I saw a car about to turn in front of me then I wouldn't give the driver the benefit of the doubt, I would slow down or stop. If he was in the middle of the junction though and you just pulled on top of him then it was pretty stupid but a mistake none the less - its not that easy to enter the right lane as you describe as there are cars usually coming for you if you are on a bike and try to do that. No doubt about it, the fact that I drive too keeps me a lot safer on a bike as I am used to predicting what other drivers will do.

antodeco

Arathorn wrote:

there was a garda there gave me a fine and 2 points, could have been a lot worse.

True OP couldve been alot worse, but I think getting 2 points is a little harsh. If you didnt do an illegal manouvere as such (yes cyclists have right of way) then I dont think you should have receive points. If you physically couldnt see the cyclist (completley out of view) would you still get points I wonder??

mikedragon32

the_syco wrote:

If he was in the left of the left lane, and went straight on, he was in the wrong, provided that the lanes were marked, I think.

Wrong.

If a cyclist is turning left OR going straight ahead, he should keep to the left. The cyclist should only move out if he is turning right.

Any car turning left must give way to the cyclist going straight ahead.

I was at the receiving end of a muppet turning left when I wanted to go straight ahead a few years ago at Leonard's Corner in Dublin. Unlike the OP he wasn't so repentant and refused to give any assistance at the scene afterwards preferring instead to hail abuse. Needless to say, he knows better now.

Arathorn

Ah no the guard acted very proffessional, just another question, when the fine comes out in the post does the letter say its from the guards? My folks would give me a hard time if they found out, dont live at home which is where the fine is being sent

Cappo

Well-done – not many posters admit to their mistakes – not been smart!

Alun

mikedragon32 wrote:

If a cyclist is turning left OR going straight ahead, he should keep to the left. The cyclist should only move out if he is turning right.

If I understand the OP's post correctly, I believe we're talking about a situation here where there's a separate lane for turning left only, and a lane for going straight on. You're surely not saying that in that situation a cyclist should stay on the left of the left-turn only lane and yet still go straight on are you?

I've done a fair bit of cycling in my time, albeit a long time ago, and I wouldn't even dream of doing anything like that unless I had some kind of death-wish ... I'd keep to the left of the straight-on lane as Anan1 said.

Any car turning left must give way to the cyclist going straight ahead.

Agreed ... several years of living in Holland taught me that at least, and most Irish drivers don't seem to have grasped that concept but I don't think that was what we were talking about here.

mikemac

antodeco wrote:

If you physically couldnt see the cyclist (completley out of view) would you still get points I wonder??

I don't buy that.
Car drivers have a blind spot but that's what your wing mirrors are for.
So in a situation like the OP's then you can check your left wing mirror before making a turn.
That's what my instructor showed me when I was taking lessons.

Most drivers don't do this though. I know from using my moped that on a road with two lanes the most dangerous place is to be is level with somone's back wheel as it's unlikely they know you're there.

antodeco

Arathorn wrote:

Ah no the guard acted very proffessional, just another question, when the fine comes out in the post does the letter say its from the guards? My folks would give me a hard time if they found out, dont live at home which is where the fine is being sent

Yup the letter says it, but I cant remember if the envelope does! Sure just tell them you've applied to the reserve force!

Actually, just make up a lie about how you sent them a letter regarding certain rules of the road you were unsure of, and its probably just a reply!

Arathorn

No I did physically see him but expected him to turn left, thinking back even if he was turning left I still would have left it too tight for him which is why I'm not argueing the point. Just passed my test 4 weeks ago and all

MarkN

Alun the roads are quite a bit busier these days as you know, being on a bike now compared to even 10 years ago is very different. Asking a cyclist to make a lane change like you say will either have the cyclist pull out in front of traffic wishing to turn left or result in the cyclist having to stop completely and wait til there is no traffic at all so they can cross the lane and that's not practical, the cyclist has as much right to be on the road as a car. If a cyclist doesn't make a hand signal to indicate a left or right turn then don't assume.

antodeco

micmclo wrote:

I don't buy that.
Car drivers have a blind spot but that's what your wing mirrors are for.
So in a situation like the OP's then you can check your left wing mirror before making a turn.
That's what my instructor showed me when I was taking lessons.

Most drivers don't do this though. I know from using my moped that on a road with two lanes the most dangerous place is to be is level with somone's back wheel as it's unlikely they know you're there.

Of course, if you can see him in your mirrors thats fine. But im saying if you CANT see him for whatever reason (was behind a car behind or on the path or bicycle lane that ended).

Alun

MarkN wrote:

Asking a cyclist to make a lane change like you say will either have the cyclist pull out in front of traffic wishing to turn left or result in the cyclist having to stop completely and wait til there is no traffic at all so they can cross the lane and that's not practical, the cyclist has as much right to be on the road as a car.

Well, I was assuming it was a situation where a left-turn lane peeled off the left side of the main carriageway, not one where an existing straight-on lane changed into a left turn only lane, so in that situation no lane change as such would be required, but I take your point regarding the other situation.

Victor

The rules are unfair on the cyclist, insisting he keep left, even inside left-turning traffic (where many cyclists get killed).

If someone (anyone) is turning left, don't try to pass them.

UrbanFox

I cycle in the Dublin suburbs and that is a daily adventure.

I notice with increasing irritation that cyclists are getting less consideration from motorists. Indeed, many motorists seem to be utterly ignorant of the concept of yielding and right of way in relation to cyclists. I say that as a cyclist who is quite happy to have his right of way taken off him on the basis that survival is preferable to rehab.

The manoeuvre that really cheeses me off is the motorist who drives up from behind you, overtakes and then turns left in front of you or stops dead in front of you and then delays turning left until you catch up ! If motorists would wait a few seconds and not overtake a cyclist but let them clear away first it would be a lot quicker.

BTW OP for what specific offence did you get points ?

Mr. Presentable

OP, I'm curious to know, was the cyclist undertaking you?

Stark

nipplenuts wrote:

OP, I'm curious to know, was the cyclist undertaking you?

What? Bad cyclist! You should have reversed back over him when you saw him getting up for his crimes. :rolleyes:

littlejukka

in that situation (as the cyclist) i would have looked over my right shoulder as i approached the junction in the left lane, and if there was a car behind me i would have indicated my intention to move to the right with my right arm extended.

if at that stage he continued and tried to overtake me and turn left in front of me there would be no excuse for his behaviour.

fair play for owning up to your error.

markpb

littlejukka wrote:

in that situation (as the cyclist) i would have looked over my right shoulder as i approached the junction in the left lane, and if there was a car behind me i would have indicated my intention to move to the right with my right arm extended.

I tend to indicate at most junctions that I'll be continuing straight on just to make it quite obvious to drivers behind.

DCCs pretty poor cycle lane design doesn't help the situation. As Alun said, cyclists should be in the middle lane but thats frequently more dangerous. On more than one occasion, the coronors court has cited DCC's continued use of left-of-left cycle lanes as being the primary cause of death but they don't let a silly thing like that get in the way of more red paint.

littlejukka

markpb wrote:

I tend to indicate at most junctions that I'll be continuing straight on just to make it quite obvious to drivers behind.

DCCs pretty poor cycle lane design doesn't help the situation. As Alun said, cyclists should be in the middle lane but thats frequently more dangerous. On more than one occasion, the coronors court has cited DCC's continued use of left-of-left cycle lanes as being the primary cause of death but they don't let a silly thing like that get in the way of more red paint.

i never use the straight on signal in city traffic. the majority of motorists wouldn't have a clue what it means.

in the situation the OP described he wasn't going straight on, rather he was moving into the lane to the right of him and then moving straight on, which would suggest that you should indicate right.

Arathorn

The offence was driving without reasonable consideration which is 2 points and a fine. If the guard had decided the offence was driving carelessly I would have been up in court and got 5 points.

BostonB

micmclo wrote:

I don't buy that.
Car drivers have a blind spot but that's what your wing mirrors are for.
....

A blind spot generally means one you can't see even in the mirrors. Hence its name

BostonB

Cyclists in general are unpredictable and usually don't obey the signals or lane restrictions. They also always expect everyone to yield to them regardless. So just expect them to do the unexpected, and always give them right of way, even if it means slowing down and crawling behind them till their they've made their turn or haven't. It will delay you at most a few minutes, and its not worth taking the risk.

Johnny Storm

UrbanFox wrote:

...I notice with increasing irritation that cyclists are getting less consideration from motorists. Indeed, many motorists seem to be utterly ignorant of the concept of yielding and right of way in relation to cyclists. I say that as a cyclist who is quite happy to have his right of way taken off him on the basis that survival is preferable to rehab.

I cycle and drive and IMHO you can see some totally demented behaviour by both cyclists and drivers. I 100% agree with you on the point about doing what is needed to survive.

copacetic

BostonB wrote:

Cyclists in general are unpredictable and usually don't obey the signals or lane restrictions. They also always expect everyone to yield to them regardless. So just expect them to do the unexpected, and always give them right of way, even if it means slowing down and crawling behind them till their they've made their turn or haven't. It will delay you at most a few minutes, and its not worth taking the risk.

I cycle and drive and it isn't 'cyclists' who are unpredictable it is people. As we see on here countless times most motorists don't obey the rules of the road either.

The difference is it is the cyclist who is going to get killed.

It the situation the OP mentions it is much safer for the cyclist to stay left and go straight on, weaving into the middle between a left turn lane and a straight on lane gives two different lanes of motorists the chance to knock you down. It would also hold up some motorists if the lanes are skinny which can cause silly and dangerous behaviour from them.

It is a common occurence for someone to overtake you and then pull across you to turn left, I'd say that and car doors opening in front of you are the most common way motorists knock cyclists down.

BostonB

copacetic wrote:

I cycle and drive and it isn't 'cyclists' who are unpredictable it is people. As we see on here countless times most motorists don't obey the rules of the road either.

The difference is it is the cyclist who is going to get killed.

It the situation the OP mentions it is much safer for the cyclist to stay left and go straight on, weaving into the middle between a left turn lane and a straight on lane gives two different lanes of motorists the chance to knock you down. It would also hold up some motorists if the lanes are skinny which can cause silly and dangerous behaviour from them.

It is a common occurence for someone to overtake you and then pull across you to turn left, I'd say that and car doors opening in front of you are the most common way motorists knock cyclists down.

Why are you giving cycling advice to a motorist?

Treat cyclists like taxis, buses and drunks. Give them a huge space and expect the unexpected. If in doubt stop and let them do crazy as far away from you as possible.

Equally why take a gamble on right of way when you are cycling? But thats advice for the cycling forum.