Advice Please

colm_mcm

So an Avensis will depreciate more than an Accord because there were more sold?

Better get a Renault Avantime.

E92

colm_mcm wrote:

So an Avensis will depreciate more than an Accord because there were more sold?

Better get a Renault Avantime.

I'd better buy a 550i Touring with a Manual gearbox, because it'll be the only one in the country(maybe even the world:eek: ) it will mean that when it comes to selling it, it will be such a rare car that it will be in such high demand that I'll sell it at a profit maybe even 2 years later:D .

Henry Ford III

bazz26 wrote:

Henry I'm not going to get into argument on a public forum as it really spoils the thread and it's not worth it. But lets be fair here, you have a little dig at some people for judging the new Mondeo on looks alone rather than the whole package. I'm not gone on the looks of the new Mondeo (as I already posted) but I have recommended the car to people on here on more than one occasion as I still know that the Mondeo is a good car. But in another thread you disgarde the Auris based on an article in a UK tabloid car magazine despite probably never even sitting in one. So the argument is the same in my book, judge the car on the whole package not just one thing.

I think we will leave it at that.

You have pm mate.

what_car

colm_mcm wrote:

So an Avensis will depreciate more than an Accord because there were more sold?

Better get a Renault Avantime.

i have heard mentioned that the avensis is "a priests" car...

because there are more avensis cars for sale, second hand means that prices will be discounted to shift them...... dealers are getting avensis cars back now off hire drive by the bucket load.... i got a flyer from a toyota dealer with great deals on 07 avensis ....most likely ex hire drive cars coming back...

so naturally they will take a bigger hit on depreciation as there are much more of them to sell...... i hear that the avensis SOL 2.4 auto is almost saleproof..


the avensis is a good product , but the looks are very very dated..
tail light cluster, headlights, etc etc.. also the 1.8 aiuto is only a 4 speed

i may take a look at the new avensis when it arrives, i doubt they will do a diesel auto? i hear that honda are releasing the new model accord in diesel auto! cant wait..

what_car

colm_mcm wrote:

So an Avensis will depreciate more than an Accord because there were more sold?

Better get a Renault Avantime.

yes the avensis will loose more... look at all the avensis that will be sitting in dealer forecourts over the next 6-8 weeks... all hire drives coming back.

dealers will be discounting these inorder to shift them..

there are 54 2007 avensis on carzone. ( prob a heap more in a few weeks when the hiredrives come in)

there are 21 2007 honda accords on carzone.

bazz26

what_car wrote:

:eek:


bazz the introduction of the new accord wont affect the value of the current accord that much.. it will take a while for supplies of the new accord to arrive and for second hand models to appear for sale...


second hand accords sell well.. there are 45 accords from 06-07 on carzone.

there are 211 avensis on carzone from 06-07 ! erm more choice, so lower prices more depreciation.

All cars loose money, the minute you drive it off the forecout it looses alot of money, the Accord is no different. When ever a new model is launched the older one becomes less desirable as the "keep up with the Jones" factor takes over with alot of people. Also dealer forecourts become populated with the old models that were traded in for the new one. This pushes used prices down again as dealers try to move stock. Just take a look at 2003 old model Accords, they are going for a song now, same with 2003 old model Avensis and 2007 old model Mondeos. They are less desirable as most people want the latest and greatest model.

The current Accord has been on sale in Europe since early 2003, it is being replaced in early 2008 by a larger car, the current Accord will loose substantial value on the used market like any other end of life model. Also 2.0 litre petrol are less desirable in general in Ireland which influences their used value.

Buying new doesn't make financial sense imo as cars are not investments. I have bought new before but never again, it's a mugs game imo. I know some people like the new car smell and the knowledge of the car having no previous dodgy history but I've seen that and worn the t-shirt, the money the loose is simply not worth it imo. I bought my existing car new but now it is worth very little to anyone except me. But it is costing me nothing except for normal running costs so it will stay until it dies or I get a deal I cannot refuse.

But don't stop buying new cars as then there will be no used bargins for the likes of me a few years down the road.

colm_mcm

what_car wrote:

because there are more avensis cars for sale, second hand means that prices will be discounted to shift them......

There is demand to match the supply though. I currently have no used Avensis in stock. will get some trade ins against hire drives in a few weeks. I have some people to call as soon as I get 03, 04, and 05 models in.

what_car wrote:

dealers are getting avensis cars back now off hire drive by the bucket load.... i got a flyer from a toyota dealer with great deals on 07 avensis ....most likely ex hire drive cars coming back...

There are hire cars, but every volume brand does them. how does a dealer having some 4-6 month cars in stock (all of which will be sold by the end of the year, or february at the latest) mean that there are too many used Avensis on the market.

what_car wrote:

so naturally they will take a bigger hit on depreciation as there are much more of them to sell...... i hear that the avensis SOL 2.4 auto is almost saleproof..

Quite true. but then is a pink and white striped Honda Accord. The 2.4 model was a special order that sold miniscule numbers in Ireland, single figure sales. To use this model as an example is a bit silly.

Point is, I wish I had a few more Avensis in the forecourt as we have no problem finding punters for them. It's not like with Mondeos and Vectras where there are loads of ex fleet cars clogging up the forecourt and killing second hand prices. just look what used Avensis go for!


re: 54 avensis on Carzone, that's between 60 dealers!

what_car

bazz26 wrote:

All cars loose money, the minute you drive it off the forecout it looses alot of money, the Accord is no different. When ever a new model is launched the older one becomes less desirable as the "keep up with the Jones" factor takes over with alot of people. Also dealer forecourts become populated with the old models that were traded in for the new one. This pushes used prices down again as dealers try to move stock. Just take a look at 2003 old model Accords, they are going for a song now, same with 2003 old model Avensis and 2007 old model Mondeos. They are less desirable as most people want the latest and greatest model.

The current Accord has been on sale in Europe since early 2003, it is being replaced in early 2008 by a larger car, the current Accord will loose substantial value on the used market like any other end of life model. Also 2.0 litre petrol are less desirable in general in Ireland which influences their used value.

Buying new doesn't make financial sense imo as cars are not investments. I have bought new before but never again, it's a mugs game imo. I know some people like the new car smell and the knowledge of the car having no previous dodgy history but I've seen that and worn the t-shirt, the money the loose is simply not worth it imo. I bought my existing car new but now it is worth very little to anyone except me. But it is costing me nothing except for normal running costs so it will stay until it dies or I get a deal I cannot refuse.

But don't stop buying new cars as then there will be no used bargins for the likes of me a few years down the road.

can you clarify what you mean by substantial? normally when a new model is released, the older model looses a years value in the same year as a result of the new model.


colm_mcn youre right my 6mth old avensis d4d sold quite quickly.


i have never owned a second hand car, have always bought new for that piece of mind.. i am averaging at the minute 6-8 months between changing cars.

bazz26

what_car wrote:

yes the avensis will loose more... look at all the avensis that will be sitting in dealer forecourts over the next 6-8 weeks... all hire drives coming back.

dealers will be discounting these inorder to shift them..

there are 54 2007 avensis on carzone. ( prob a heap more in a few weeks when the hiredrives come in)

there are 21 2007 honda accords on carzone.

Why are you comparing an Avensis to an Accord, there is a huge difference in spec, price and range between the two. They are aimed at different markets. Most Avensis sold are 1.6 litre or 2.0 litre diesel, these people are not in the market for a 2.0 litre petrol or 2.2 litre diesel Accord. Like comparing apples and oranges.

Next year's reorg of the motor tax system will determin the value of larger engined cars. Used bargins galore in big engined cars is my guess.

what_car

bazz26 wrote:

Why are you comparing an Avensis to an Accord, there is a huge difference in spec, price and range between the two. They are aimed at different markets. Most Avensis sold are 1.6 litre or 2.0 litre diesel, these people are not in the market for a 2.0 litre petrol or 2.2 litre diesel Accord. Like comparing apples and oranges.

Next year's reorg of the motor tax system will determin the value of larger engined cars. Used bargins galore in big engined cars is my guess.

i am comparing two cars, in the same size , mid size saloons. what market is the accord aimed at then? the avensis is available in 2.0 petrol too...

i know the tax system is due to change soon, how soon though?

fuel has gone down in price recently petrol is 111.9 where i am. but i rekon this this wont stay like this for long.

bazz26

what_car wrote:

can you clarify what you mean by substantial? normally when a new model is released, the older model looses a years value in the same year as a result of the new model.

Have a look at carzone, check out the price of 2003 old model Accords with a similar 2003 new model Accord and see the difference in asking price. Same thing with a 2003 old v new model Avensis.

Here you go:

For example:
2003 old shape Accord (auto):
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=531646

2003 new share similar spec Accord (manual):
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=779928

2003 old shape Toyota Avensis:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=774112

2003 similar new shape Toyota Avensis:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=775451

what_car

bazz26 wrote:

Have a look at carzone, check out the price of 2003 old model Accords with a similar 2003 new model Accord and see the difference in asking price. Same thing with a 2003 old v new model Avensis.

Here you go:

For example:
2003 old shape Accord (auto):
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=531646

2003 new share similar spec Accord (manual):
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=779928

2003 old shape Toyota Avensis:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=774112

2003 similar new shape Toyota Avensis:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=775451

the accords you quote, one is manual and one is auto. its a lot of car for the money

the difference between the two accords is €2450

when you add in the cost of the auto box too €1550

thats a difference of €4000. do autos depreciate more?:D

bazz26

what_car wrote:

i am comparing two cars, in the same size , mid size saloons. what market is the accord aimed at then? the avensis is available in 2.0 petrol too....

The Accord while the demensions are no bigger than an Avensis sits just below the Audi A4, Lexus IS, BMW 3 Series junior executive market but is definately not aimed at the volume market of family cars such as Avensis, Mondeo, Mazda 6, not in Ireland anyway. All these cars sell mostly in the < 2.0 litre market. You can count on one hand the number of 2.0 litre petrol Avensis sold in Ireland.

bazz26

what_car wrote:

the accords you quote, one is manual and one is auto. its a lot of car for the money

the difference between the two accords is €2450

when you add in the cost of the auto box too €1550

thats a difference of €4000.

They were the closest examples of similar speced cars with similar mileage. The point is still valid though that there is a big difference in prices between old and new due to one being more desirable than the other. The laws of supply and demand determin the value of a used car.

BTW I'm not having a go at the Accord, they are a very good car, I drove one myself many years ago as a company car. I still miss it, but I reckon if I was selling one today it might be difficult and would have to price it aggresively simply because this is Ireland and it is a 2.0 litre petrol. 1.6 Avensis and the likes sell all day long in Ireland due to lower running costs.

Shouldn't take away from the ownership experience though, just enjoy the car you have.

what_car

bazz26 wrote:

They were the closest examples of similar speced cars with similar mileage. The point is still valid though that there is a big difference in prices between old and new due to one being more desirable than the other. The laws of supply and demand determin the value of a used car.

BTW I'm not having a go at the Accord, they are a very good car, I drove one myself many years ago as a company car. I still miss it, but I reckon if I was selling one today it might be difficult and would have to price it aggresively simply because this is Ireland and it is a 2.0 litre petrol. 1.6 Avensis and the likes sell all day long in Ireland due to lower running costs.

Shouldn't take away from the ownership experience though, just enjoy the car you have.

if i worried bout depreciation i wouldnt change my car so often :cool:

im not knocking toyota, its the small engined mentality that is Ireland,
and that auto boxes are mad yokes to be avoided - auto boxes are becoming slowly more plentiful...on irish roads...

the 1.6 avensis would most likely be harder on petrol than my 2.0 auto.
i bet you cant get a 1.6 avensis in the uk?

BostonB

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'm amazed by people who will make a judgement call on a new vehicles overall abilities purely on looks.

Each to their own I guess.

Just to clarify I was only commenting on the aesthetics, not anything else. You're not defending the aesthetics though. Maybe it will grow on me. I would say aesthetics are pretty important. Especially in something emotive like a car. A lot of modern cars have the same problem. IMO the current 3 series and 5 series look a bit meh without the right wheels and sport kit on them. The Cayenne is very accomplished. But pretty it ain't. Etc. But then beauty is in the eye of the beholder and highly subjective.

BostonB

what_car wrote:

if i worried bout depreciation i wouldnt change my car so often :cool:

im not knocking toyota, its the small engined mentality that is Ireland,
and that auto boxes are mad yokes to be avoided - auto boxes are becoming slowly more plentiful...on irish roads...

the 1.6 avensis would most likely be harder on petrol than my 2.0 auto.
i bet you cant get a 1.6 avensis in the uk?

Its the tax system that drives the small engined mentality. Nothing else.

Driving in Ireland has become more congested, more traffic, more speed ramps, speed restrictions etc. In that context an auto makes more sense now. I'd consider one myself now. Especially with my dodgy knee.

Henry Ford III

Guess what Bazz drives? - that's right an old Avensis.

Guess what Colm sells for a living? - that's right Toyota. I've had a look at the motors charter, and whilst advertising is banned, shamelessly marketing a brand isn't.

QED.

unkel

The new Mondeo is a good car by all means. OP is going to keep it for 6 years so depreciation is not that much of an issue. BTW the 1.6 petrol has 125BHP which is more than most competitors

@OP - did you consider buying a Skoda Superb?

bazz26

unkel wrote:

The new Mondeo is a good car by all means. OP is going to keep it for 6 years so depreciation is not that much of an issue. BTW the 1.6 petrol has 125BHP which is more than most competitors

Afraid not, the Irish only get the 110bhp version of the 1.6 Mondeo.

unkel

bazz26 wrote:

Afraid not, the Irish only get the 110bhp version of the 1.6 Mondeo.

Bedamned, you're right! That's pathetic. 125BHP is much more suitable for an entry level Mondeo or any other D-segment car for that matter

Why are Ford doing this? Not even having the 125BHP version as a higher price option? It won't help the depreciation issue that previous Mondeos had either...

bazz26

unkel wrote:

Bedamned, you're right! That's pathetic. 125BHP is much more suitable for an entry level Mondeo or any other D-segment car for that matter

Why are Ford doing this? Not even having the 125BHP version as a higher price option? It won't help the depreciation issue that previous Mondeos had either...

I can only imagine it is to keep costs down. 1.6 110bhp Mondeo starts at €25k which undercuts the 1.6 115bhp Passat and 1.6 110bhp Avensis.

what_car

bazz26 wrote:

I can only imagine it is to keep costs down. 1.6 110bhp Mondeo starts at €25k which undercuts the 1.6 115bhp Passat and 1.6 110bhp Avensis.

a 1.6 avensis wouldnt pull you out of bed:eek: and would be hard on the fuel too...

i rekon my 2.0 petrol would be more economical

colm_mcm

Henry Ford III wrote:

Guess what Bazz drives? - that's right an old Avensis.

Guess what Colm sells for a living? - that's right Toyota. I've had a look at the motors charter, and whilst advertising is banned, shamelessly marketing a brand isn't.

QED.

At least my user name isn't "Kiichiro Toyoda II" I wonder where your allegiences lie :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not marketing anything, I'm simply responding to incorrect comments that the Avensis depreciates heavily.
I would know better than most on here how easy/hard they are to sell, and don't base how much a car loses on the availibility of a particular model on Carzone!

yellow012

I know you said you don't want another Octavia but the MK1 and MK2 Octavias are chalk and cheese. If I were you I would definitely have a look at either a Octavia Elegance 1.8 TFSI - if you prefer petrol, 160bhp plenty of spec, 176 co2 emission so shouldn't be hit two hard if they change the car tax system or if you prefer diesel the Octavia Elegance I.9tdi it has a ultra efficient co2 rate of 130 (despite people here saying its and old design).
Each can be had for less than €26k. You can add the excellent DSG gearbox to both if prefer automatic for about another €2k.

what_car

colm_mcm wrote:

At least my user name isn't "Kiichiro Toyoda II" I wonder where your allegiences lie :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not marketing anything, I'm simply responding to incorrect comments that the Avensis depreciates heavily.
I would know better than most on here how easy/hard they are to sell, and don't base how much a car loses on the availibility of a particular model on Carzone!

its a common fact, that if a dealer has 20 of a particular car in stock second hand that a buyer has better bargaining power when buying the car than
a buyer who is buying a 2nd hand car that the dealer has only 1-2 in stock.

also the fact that you are a salesman for toyota ...... lets leave it at that.:D ..

mallet head

yellow012 wrote:

I know you said you don't want another Octavia but the MK1 and MK2 Octavias are chalk and cheese. If I were you I would definitely have a look at either a Octavia Elegance 1.8 TFSI - if you prefer petrol, 160bhp plenty of spec, 176 co2 emission so shouldn't be hit two hard if they change the car tax system or if you prefer diesel the Octavia Elegance I.9tdi it has a ultra efficient co2 rate of 130 (despite people here saying its and old design).
Each can be had for less than €26k. You can add the excellent DSG gearbox to both if prefer automatic for about another €2k.

I'm Back to square one now. I've had a look at the skoda website and they are lovely, my model is bog standard compared to those babies. Guess i have another main dealer to see.

thanks

unkel

mallet head wrote:

Guess i have another main dealer to see

If you do, make sure you go sit in the back of a Superb

Henry Ford III

colm_mcm wrote:

At least my user name isn't "Kiichiro Toyoda II" I wonder where your allegiences lie :rolleyes:

Besides, I'm not marketing anything.....

User name is irrelevant, but motive isn't.

You are constantly talking up the model virtues, specs, and apparent scarcity of various Toyota models on various threads, so much so that I know far too much about lunas, stratas etc

Nothing much wrong with that in itself, but the difference is that you derive your income from selling these same products.

Now if that isn't blatant marketing please explain to me what is? Whilst you are at it how in your circumstances can your opinion on any car be of value?

It's severely biased and skewed by your overriding commerical concerns.

what_car

Henry Ford III wrote:

User name is irrelevant, but motive isn't.

You are constantly talking up the model virtues, specs, and apparent scarcity of various Toyota models on various threads, so much so that I know far too much about lunas, stratas etc

Nothing much wrong with that in itself, but the difference is that you derive your income from selling these same products.

Now if that isn't blatant marketing please explain to me what is? Whilst you are at it how in your circumstances can your opinion on any car be of value?

It's severely biased and skewed by your overriding commerical concerns.

exactly!!:D if i was looking to buy a new car , no offence, but i wouldnt take any advice from a car sales man!