Rendition, Shannon & Neutrality

banaman

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=43&ItemID=13664

If a flight on its way to collect a persons being rendered, or on its way back with said person, or after having rendered them , lands at shannon and refuels are we not co-conspiritors?
Are we not accomplices in an illegal act therefore guilty of conspiracy to commit an illegal act?

And if so, then does the rendered person not have a right of redress against us through the courts, given that a defence of "well we didn't know" would be hollow after all the repeated claims and the proven instances of implicated aircraft passing through here.

So just how neutral can we claim to be?

banaman

banaman wrote:

And if so, then does the rendered person not have a right of redress against us through the courts, given that a defence of "well we didn't know" would be hollow after all the repeated claims and the proven instances of implicated aircraft passing through here.

You'd really need to study up a bit on the law.
How on earth could a "rendered" person if even released prove that they were through shannon?That would be a basic minimum requirement for a case.

As for implicated aircraft passing through here,the same applies.
You would have to prove that something illegal was happening on board whilst the plane was in Shannon.
Thats going to be as easy as growing roses out in the open at the north pole.

So really your question is just a what if this... and what if that... ponder.

jawlie

While we can all understand the strength of emotion some folks feel about the whole Shannon issue, it is naive to think that we can have any impact on the USA were we to forbid its use to them. As we have seen elsewhere, those who hinder or try to frustrate them are subject to sanctions and bullying from them and, like it or not, we will always come off worst in that situation.

We could, as a country, take the moral high ground and pay the price or, we could, try to organise some sort of agreement with all the other airports the USA uses in Europe to band together and ban their use to the USA. We can judge for ourselves which of these is likely to happen.

Alternatively, we can just carry on as we have been doing with a small but vocal minority protesting and getting on their high horses.

legal action against the USA, even if you had evidence, would be nigh on impossible. Who would try them? Who would you be trying? Who would force them to turn up? who would enforce any judgement against them?

bonkey

jawlie wrote:

While we can all understand the strength of emotion some folks feel about the whole Shannon issue, it is naive to think that we can have any impact on the USA were we to forbid its use to them. As we have seen elsewhere, those who hinder or try to frustrate them are subject to sanctions and bullying from them and, like it or not, we will always come off worst in that situation.

Complete and utter fiction.

Switzerland closed its airspace from US military use when the US went into Iraq.

The US reaction? Other than honouring the Swiss stance...absolutely nothing.

We could, as a country, take the moral high ground and pay the price
or, we could, try to organise some sort of agreement with all the other airports the USA uses in Europe to band together and ban their use to the USA. We can judge for ourselves which of these is likely to happen.

Alternately, we could follow the Swiss example, stand by our principles and have the US accept that without rancour.

Alternatively, we can just carry on as we have been doing with a small but vocal minority protesting and getting on their high horses.

If they're so unworthy of attention, then why the fictional scaremongering to argue that they're wrong? Why make up this threat of a vengeful US, rather than just ignoring this minority?

Mick86

Christ not again.

Yes we're Nazis. Blame Fianna Fáil and let's get over it.

banaman

Mick86 wrote:

Christ not again.

Yes we're Nazis. Blame Fianna Fáil and let's get over it.

So what you're saying mick is that there is no point in protesting any crime committed by the powerful "its just the way it is and is therefore somehow acceptable" really?

So in that case using your logic then there was no point in the 1916 rebellion or freedom fighters anywhere.

B......s

This thread is dropping off the quality meter scale.
It's in danger of being closed and binned but I'm lazy today so I'll only do one of these things with it.