Naming of Surfing Secret Spots

Boston

local surfer wrote:

Thats human nature for you, two sides to every coin. What is being explained to you is the dual side of the argument that is pretty much universally accepted within the surfing world. Your lack of knowledge of said rules (however unofficial - see common sense) indicates that you are not very experienced within the surfing realm, and your attitude implies that you would be one of the ones I would be having to drag out of a rip.

I have never, ever met an experienced surfer who does not understand and accept these arguments.

I believe the purpose of the thread was not to stop people from surfing different spots, just to not mention them on a public surfing forum.

The duality of shut up or you'll get your face smashed in I understand very well. There is no great mystery surrounding your arguements.

I'm currently contemplating taking out a google advert for the keywords 'sufting ireland' and linking to this secret site and as many others as I can find (btw I'm an expert on finding out this type of information).

cornbb

local surfer wrote:

Thats human nature for you, two sides to every coin. What is being explained to you is the dual side of the argument that is pretty much universally accepted within the surfing world. Your lack of knowledge of said rules (however unofficial - see common sense) indicates that you are not very experienced within the surfing realm, and your attitude implies that you would be one of the ones I would be having to drag out of a rip.

I have never, ever met an experienced surfer who does not understand and accept these arguments.

I believe the purpose of the thread was not to stop people from surfing different spots, just to not mention them on a public surfing forum.

As far as I can see, the mention of St. Finians was just casually dropped into a post about a trip to kerry. Its not like he said "Hey everyone, head for this fantastic location and get yourself stuck in a rip!"

So is this what you do regularly then, police the internet to remove references to your local break? And you've drawn tons of people's attention to it, well done.

You still haven't given any real reason not to mention these spots on the internet, apart from vague references to the fact that its the "done thing" or "common sense". This indicates to me is that the real reason is jealous localism, nothing else.

Evil Phil

TBH, I'm only a beginner but I've found that the local surfers are a great source in info and a welcoming bunch both here and in the U.K. (I haven't surfed anywhere else). That being said there are certain ethics that should be respected even if they aren't a written rule or law. I make an effort to do so hence the people I've met have been friendly and helpful.

Our local ethics include not naming local/secret surf spots. This is not unusual. There seems to me to be a number of people involving themselves in the discussion on boards.ie who aren't involved in the sport. In short, they haven't a clue what their talking about.

Local ethics should always be respected and sadly in this case they haven't. That's why people are up in arms over this. I think the OP made a mistake instead of being deliberate and I think Fuzzy should rethink his stance.

Enygma

I'd also like to lodge a complaint.

The reason the ISA believes naming these spots is detrimental to surfing is that surfing in Ireland is a very limited resource. A small beach with one peak can only handle so many people, once the number of surfers in the water goes over a certain threshold then things can get heated. The way the ISA (and surf culture in general around the world) deals with this is not to list certain out of the way spots in guide books and on websites. Of course this flies in the face of "information should be free" but it is, and has always been, the way things are in the surfing world.

As a moderator on two Irish surfing sites I'm often asked by locals to edit posts to remove sensitive spot names and I always comply out of respect for the people that surf there.

Well known spots around the country can become so overrun with people that local surfers often retreat to lesser known spots to get their share of waves. Nobody is saying that these beaches are off limits, but they ask that these spots are kept on the QT online and in books.

It is a part of surfings culture all around the world, for better or for worse.

Unfortunately the thread in question did degenerate into a slagging match but I think my posts do respectfully ask that regular surfing ettiquite be respected. I have made several helpful posts in that forum and would not like to turn anyone off surfing.

I can assure you that anyone that arrives at this beach will be welcomed in as long as they respect the many unwritten rules of surfing. One of which is to respect what has come to be known as the "secret spot". Of course it's never a secret, but it's the place that is off the beaten track, away from the crowds, away from the kooks, where you can actually get a wave to yourself.

Most surfers would like to keep it that way, that is why the ISA has taken that stance.

It may also be of interest to you that surfers in Ireland voted not to hold a world championship competition in Ireland a few years back so as to keep the surf here quieter than other places around the world. The ISA turned down the competition and were actually fined for doing so, but there are still a lot of surfers out there that think they did the right thing.

So I'd ask that the name of the beach be removed. All are welcome there, but please respect the "unwritten rules" and don't post it online.

Zambia

local surfer wrote:

Well, I have tried.

See you in the rip.

No you wont because I from reading this thread have seen that the spot has a dangerous Rip. If I never read this post I could have found this beach by accident decide to surf my amateur ass off land in the rip and die because of the local surfers where at a wedding or something.

Boston

Evil Phil wrote:

Local ethics should always be respected and sadly in this case they haven't. That's why people are up in arms over this. I think the OP made a mistake instead of being deliberate and I think Fuzzy should rethink his stance.

How about the ethics of not throwing digs at people and acting like an arsehole, or are they unwritten rules?

I post on the airsoft forum, theres things you don't talk about on the forum, thats fair enough. If some arse hole came on and said "hey the airsoft community is small, edit your post or you may be in for a smack, i'd go ballistic.

joe_chicken

Threats have nullified any decent points that these people were making...

St Finians Bay, you say?!...

I'll have to inform my beginner friends with their Ripcurl Renault, and unwaxed boards to go check it out

Signed,
The Kookenest Kook

Enygma

What if he came in and started talking about the things that ye don't talk about?

Unfortunately it's true, people do get very very aggressive over surfing. I've seen it on quite a few occasions. It's not nice, but you have to be aware that it exists. No ones saying you can't go ballistic back though

Gone West

Look I've already said that I don't mind anybody mentioning spots that aren't widely known. A cat mod has stated his position as similar.
If a supermod or admin disagrees, well obviously then references to St Finians will be taken out. Until then, I don't mind.

But to be honest, the more people post on the threads, the more googlebot, etc will pick up "surf st finians" and rank it.

I know, there hasn't been a whole lot of swell, and the September hurricane/TS season is peaking in a week. Doesn't look like September is off to a good start. Felix is gone west and the big Autumn swells aren't materialising yet. I understand that theres not much else to do, bar threaten people online.

RuggieBear

Enygma wrote:

It may also be of interest to you that surfers in Ireland voted not to hold a world championship competition in Ireland a few years back so as to keep the surf here quieter than other places around the world. The ISA turned down the competition and were actually fined for doing so, but there are still a lot of surfers out there that think they did the right thing.

So I'd ask that the name of the beach be removed. All are welcome there, but please respect the "unwritten rules" and don't post it online.

That really reflects badly on those Irish surfers imo.

Enygma

Fair enough, I'd appreciate if the admins would contact me if they have any questions about my previous post. I wouldn't like to be associated with any threats but would still like this issue to be taken seriously.

FWIW I am also a Chairman of an ISA affiliated surf club.

Thanks

Boston

I think carty's first name is danny.

FuzzyLogic: Just for ref to the best of my knowledge Smods don't overrider forum mods or Cat mods when it comes to forum decisions.

cornbb

RuggieBear wrote:

That really reflects badly on those Irish surfers imo.

Yes, I'm quite saddened to learn that the governing body appears to support the localist stance. I'm open to correction if any policymakers from the ISA happen to read this.

RuggieBear

Boston wrote:

I think carty's first name is danny.

FuzzyLogic: Just for ref to the best of my knowledge Smods don't overrider forum mods or Cat mods when it comes to forum decisions.

if any smod/admin feels i'm in the wrong on this , please don't hesitate to override my decision. (Obviously can't speak for FuzzyLogic):)

Enygma

It was the irish surfers themselves voted for this. As far as I know the thinking was that they could keep Ireland as a destination where you could get away from the crowds, rather than drawing the crowds here to make a quick buck.

That was the thinking at the time at least. This was before the explosion of surfing in recent years however. Anyway, OT.

Evil Phil

Boston wrote:

How about the ethics of not throwing digs at people and acting like an arsehole, or are they unwritten rules?

There are written laws regarding punching people in this country as I'm sure you know. My comment wasn't about threats or defending the person who made the threat.

seamus

FuzzyLogic wrote:

Look I've already said that I don't mind anybody mentioning spots that aren't widely known. A cat mod has stated his position as similar.
If a supermod or admin disagrees, well obviously then references to St Finians will be taken out. Until then, I don't mind.

Even if one of us disagreed, it's not for us to dictate forum policy to you. You're the mod, what you say goes
The admins have a similar stance, but more becuase they prefer to allow things to sort themselves out instead of getting involved in every dispute.

From reading this thread, and from what people have said about the ISA and other Irish groups, surfing in Ireland is seen as something private and elitist, preferring to not draw attention to itself, which is quite sad IMO. I could be wrong of course, but that's the impression given out.

local surfer

One more try....

Evil Phil, that sums up one of the points very nicely.

I think the alledged threat was unfortunate.

My mention of violence is just a reference to what is already happening (none of it in any way shape or form to do with me), there was an incident at another spot a week or so ago. Even though I do not agree with this happening, it is the logical conclusion to over crowding at spots, all over the world there are examples of this, just look at hawaii for an extreme example.

Why contribute to this at all?.

Also, please remember that a kook is not a beginner, it is a person who does not comprehend the unwritten rules of surfing. These rules have evolved out of common sense.

local surfer

lightening wrote:

Another threat.

Again, the complainer still has not told anyone of the dangers of St. Finians bay. Judging by his personal message to me, its fairly obvious what the agenda is, he mentions that he lives 1 mile from the break, eluding that he actually has more right to ride those waves than I do.

"Hi

I'm just reading your post in the kerry thread. Could you remove the reference to St Finnians bay. St Finnians is regarded as a secret spot and is also quite dangerous for beginners and shouldnt be advertised on public forums. The general rule in Ireland is that only spots listed in the stormrider guide are fair game for www discussions.I live 1 mile from St Finnians by the way. Thanks

Dave"

My name is not Dave, and I did not waste my time sending you a message.

Boston

local surfer wrote:

One more try....

Evil Phil, that sums up one of the points very nicely.

I think the alledged threat was unfortunate.

My mention of violence is just a reference to what is already happening (none of it in any way shape or form to do with me), there was an incident at another spot a week or so ago. Even though I do not agree with this happening, it is the logical conclusion to over crowding at spots, all over the world there are examples of this, just look at hawaii for an extreme example.

How about you contact the gardi and pass on the information you so obviously have.

The threat isn't alledged. The more you post the more inclined I am to go with the google advertising approach.

Zambia

local surfer wrote:

Also, please remember that a kook is not a beginner, it is a person who does not comprehend the unwritten rules of surfing. These rules have evolved out of common sense.

If there never ratified how are they rules ? when there is no guidance given when people rent boards or body boards how do you think people are meant to learn these rules? So a kook could be someone who just never talks to other surfers.

That said I get your point, stuff like first on the wave owns the wave and all that do increase the enjoyment of the sport.

Beruthiel

FuzzyLogic wrote:

If a supermod or admin disagrees, well obviously then references to St Finians will be taken out. Until then, I don't mind.

As seamus said already, smods don't get involved in Forum policy. And I don't believe Admins do either unless it gets Boards into some sort of legal problems.
I think this decision is basically down to you.
I can see both sides on this one. But the behaviour of surfers on that thread annoys me.
I know nothing about surfing but having spent this afternoon reading comments from surfers I am pretty shocked at the behaviour of the ones posting here, smalled mined, agressive, and to use a comment from seamus, private and elitist - not a nice bunch by the look of it.

lightening

local surfer wrote:

My name is not Dave, and I did not waste my time sending you a message.

I'm not talking about you, sorry if I wasn't clear there Evil, I was talking about longboardireland.

Cuddlesworth

All you had to do was nothing, as it is this argument means that its just going up search engine page rankings. Even if the surfing forum posts get deleted, the feedback thread will most likely stay.

But considering that even with the threats we are seeing forum regulars coming up and asking for this rule to be enforced, why not post up a public poll on the surfing forums and let them decide.

And to the few new joiners, let the forum regulars vote and not yourself. And hope that the commonly held beliefs of surfing are held up by the surfers on boards. (Btw, I have no doubt dual accounts etc will be picked up quite quickly)

Boston

This issue has come up 3 times recently, this thread alone has twice as many posts as those threads combined.

Amz

There are, as has been mentioned, very obviously people posting here just to stir it up and have no real interest in debating what the problem is.

I agree that it is sad that ISA does not seem to want to promote the sport and good surfing locations to the extent that some people think is neccessary. I do, however think that etiquette and customs associated with a particular sport are adhered to and respected.

I think the people mentioning violence etc. damaged their points because that's what people will focus on.

I would hate to see decent surfing spots destroyed by an influx of people. I think that if a lot of the people posting here were genuinely interested in surfing they would not have a problem with some of the lesser known spots were kept that way.

Nobody likes it when their favourite bar etc gets over run with new, loud obnoxious people who have no respect for the people who were originally there. Just like lots of people on boards.ie over the years have complained about new users and how the place has changed etc. as it grew.

Boston, I don't know how you can defend the unwritten rule about certain topics not being discussed on Airsoft and flout the unwritten rules that the surfing community have. Several of them have come on here to try and ask that you respect that and I really can't understand why people are so antagonised by that.

I'm disappointed by some of the posters on the surfing forum and their behaviour. I'm pretty sure that these are the ones giving all surfers a bad name particularly on this forum. I'm sure there's a way to manage this situation that is acceptable to all involved.

Enygma

I know nothing about surfing but having spent this afternoon reading comments from surfers I am pretty shocked at the behaviour of the ones posting here, smalled mined, agressive, and to use a comment from seamus, private and elitist - not a nice bunch by the look of it.

There is certainly an element of elitism to it, I'll agree with that. There is also an element of greed to it. Surfing is very very precious to the people that do it day in day out, people who live their lives just for the surf. It's very easy to lose sight of the Real World when you get wrapped up in it.

We're not all the same though. I hope that my posts don't seem to be small minded or aggressive. I hope they don't get lost in the noise.

local surfer

Beruthiel wrote:

As seamus said already, smods don't get involved in Forum policy. And I don't believe Admins do either unless it gets Boards into some sort of legal problems.
I think this decisions is basically down to you.
I can see both sides on this one. But the behaviour of surfers on that thread annoys me.
I know nothing about surfing but having spent this afternoon reading comments from surfers I am pretty shocked at the behaviour of the ones posting here, smalled mined, agressive, and to use a comment from seamus, private and elitist - not a nice bunch by the look of it.

I agree, surfers arent very nice at all. I would love to be able to paddle out out pipeline and take what ever waves I want, somehow, I dont think it works like that in the real world. Surfing brings out the best and the worst in people. I think the stance this forum is taking is unfortunately encouraging the latter.

I do not think it is good to threaten the publication of spots such as this, threats are never good.

It was said that if the removal of said spot had been made nicely, then it probably would have been removed?, I have read it, and thought that it was fairly polite.

As for reporting the violence at the incicdent, both parties contributed equally, they started it, they can finish it.

cornbb

Beruthiel wrote:

I know nothing about surfing but having spent this afternoon reading comments from surfers I am pretty shocked at the behaviour of the ones posting here, smalled mined, agressive, and to use a comment from seamus, private and elitist - not a nice bunch by the look of it.

I hope you're referring to the newcomers, not the regulars on the Surfing forum. I think they just represent a minor, insular proportion of the Irish surfing scene.

Zambia

Enygma wrote:

There is certainly an element of elitism to it, I'll agree with that. There is also an element of greed to it. Surfing is very very precious to the people that do it day in day out, people who live their lives just for the surf. It's very easy to lose sight of the Real World when you get wrapped up in it.

We're not all the same though. I hope that my posts don't seem to be small minded or aggressive. I hope they don't get lost in the noise.

I can see where your coming from. Good post